We need Trial Activity Finder!

Galiferno · August 2022

There's some talk of "gatekeeping" in this thread and I think a trial activity finder would actually expose why minimum requirements are a thing in trial guilds. I'm not even against the idea, just know if there's no requirements besides CP for vet trials, you will get plenty of high CP players who still haven't figured out the game or don't care to who think they're entitled to clear vet content without putting in the effort. And if you happen to get good supports used to running with mildly optimized groups, don't be surprised if they get fed up and leave when they see the group's DPS and/or lack of mechanical knowledge.

spartaxoxo · August 2022

More groups will fail, but that doesn't make it bad for the community. Often times elites have a totally different view on such things than players who are more casual. Elites tend to turn their nose up and claim it is bad for the game because their guild groups tend to be good alternatives. So, they have nothing but a worse experience in PUGs and assume everyone else does too.

But, most people aren't in those types of guilds. So, PUGs enable them to run content they couldn't before. Even if you fail 2/3 times, that's still 3 more runs than you got without a finder as a casual. And the run you completed will make you happy for a good while. I remember the PUG scene in other games. A lot of higher caliber raiders complained about it constantly, dropped group quickly, and acted like it was the worse thing after. While those of us not in those groups just knocked back a red bull and had a great time without them. It was very well liked by the people who used it and was many people's entryway into moving towards becoming elite players as they improved their gear, skills, and ability to perform mechanics.

Each and every one of those games had a healthier raiding scene too than this game.

Amottica · August 2022

spartaxoxo wrote: »

More groups will fail, but that doesn't make it bad for the community.

If it fails most of the time it would be bad for the community.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Often times elites have a totally different view on such things than players who are more casual. Elites tend to turn their nose up and claim it is bad for the game because their guild groups tend to be good alternatives. So, they have nothing but a worse experience in PUGs and assume everyone else does too.

I doubt there are many elites who care about such an idea and certainly do not find a trial finder a threat to their existence or ability to form a much better group than a random trial finder group would be. So it does not seem very relevant to cast them as the reason for dissent.

I am certainly not an elite player in ESO. Never have been and never will be. I, like others, have noted experience in other games that are much suited for a random group raid finder but fall short of success. Their reading scene is successful because people take the time to form groups.

A preformed pug group will be superior to a completely random group many more times than not. I do not care if Zenimax were to add such a thing but someone should point out that this is not the panacea some seem to think it will be for the same reason why tanks mostly avoid the GF.

Troodon80 · August 2022

Amottica wrote: »

this is not the panacea some seem to think it will be for the same reason why tanks mostly avoid the GF.

Again, to point out what I said on the first page: one cannot go by a week without another "fake role" thread. If a trial finder was made in the same way as the dungeon finder, it would be objectively terrible for the same reason people have been asking for changes to the dungeon finder for years.

For reference, here's a small selection of topics on the matter of fake roles in the dungeon queue. That's not a joke, there are hundreds and I couldn't be bothered copying them after a certain point.

If people honestly think this wouldn't also extend to trials, they're only kidding themselves. Do we really want a new trial finder mimicking the current system only to see even more of these topics popping up? Bear in mind, the issue with the dungeon finder affects only four people at a time while a trial would affect 12, so expect even more of those topics than ever before.

EnerG · August 2022

Im on the fence about it, but with crag being a ghost town lately, even after the zeni servers were taken down... Makes it appearent that it may help.. Or seal crags zone fate.. I wouldnt mind waiting an hour on dps, (even tho i tank) if it means getting a group, cause off hours on crag theres no groups for hours

XiangliSYD · August 2022

Simply put, I will never touch any trial without a trial finder.

EnerG · August 2022

XiangliSYD wrote: »

Simply put, I will never touch any trial without a trial finder.

Thats a little extreme... Youve never done any trials? Like not even a pidly ncrag??? People doing the vrag trials dont even talk to each other if youre THAT socially inept

Zodiarkslayer · August 2022

EnerG wrote: »

XiangliSYD wrote: »

Simply put, I will never touch any trial without a trial finder.

Thats a little extreme... Youve never done any trials? Like not even a pidly ncrag??? People doing the vrag trials dont even talk to each other if youre THAT socially inept

That's not the point. It's finding groups, getting into trials and preparing oneself. Those are mental barriers. Not social ineptitude.

That takes self confidence, that not all players have.

... Accessibility ... 😉

Ph1p · August 2022

I like the idea of streamlining the grouping process, which currently repurposes Craglorn zone chat. The option that resonates the most is the kind of trial board @Xuhora and @Troodon80 mentioned where raid leads can post their run with specific information:

Trial name
Trial difficulty (normal, veteran, veteran HM)
Group composition (number of tanks, DDs, healers)
Requirements (e.g., CP level or achievements) - to be discussed if those should be binding or just FYI
Language
Free text field for additional context (e.g., link to voice chat, purpose of the run)

Other players can search this board for the trial they want to do and sign up. Maybe add a text search as well so people can filter out "carry run" if they want to. After perhaps 1 hour without starting the trial, it automatically disappears unless the owner extends it. It stays active throughout the run, in case people quit or are kicked, so you can recruit replacements.

Unlike the current dungeon finder, the raid lead can see and accept people upfront, along with their level/CP, achievement status, current gear and max health. That would mitigate the fake roles issue. To entice experienced DDs support roles to participate, you could add some achievements and associated furnishings/dyes to clearing trials while using this finder. How about something like "Help 25 players clear a particular trial on veteran difficulty for their first time using the trial finder"?

Of course, this trial finder won't magically make PUGs better or eliminate fake roles. It just makes it simpler for a raid leader to assemble a trial group based on some defined criteria. It also makes it easier for a player interested in trials to search for and join a suitable group.

Soarora · August 2022

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

EnerG wrote: »

XiangliSYD wrote: »

Simply put, I will never touch any trial without a trial finder.

Thats a little extreme... Youve never done any trials? Like not even a pidly ncrag??? People doing the vrag trials dont even talk to each other if youre THAT socially inept

That's not the point. It's finding groups, getting into trials and preparing oneself. Those are mental barriers. Not social ineptitude.

That takes self confidence, that not all players have.

... Accessibility ... 😉

This point is something I highlighted earlier in my stance against a trial finder. Pugging made me stop dpsing for years, running with small guilds made me dps again. I strongly believe that if there was a trial finder then more people who lack confidence will get into trials and then their confidence will absolutely shatter due to how toxic people in pugs can be. Of course, guilds can be toxic as well but it’s easier to find a consistently good group, build community, and get assistance than attempting to learn with pugs that are random every time.

Eiregirl · August 2022

If what is being asked for is something like the LFR in world of warcraft then keep in mind that in world of warcraft, the raid finder is a scaled down version of a normal raid. People who never raided before or did so on rare occasion jumped right into it and often could not complete it when new raids were introduced but over the course of the expansion as these non-traditional raiders got better gear and learned the mechanics, it became easier to complete.

In ESO many of us consider normal trials as being rather easy especially once we have seen the mechanics a time or two. Now imagine a scaled down version of a normal trial in ESO. Some normal trials can be completed with 6 people maybe less but 6 for sure and I know of normal sunspire being completed with only 2 people. If ESO had a trial finder like the WOW raid finder it would be like walking into a base game dungeon.

ZOS_Hadeostry · August 2022

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

Astrid · August 2022

DonEiosah wrote: »

Will anyone agree with me?

Absolutely not.

Imagine you queue into the likes of well.. any vet trial really, but let’s use vCR as an example and majority of your group hasn’t set foot in it and joined out of curiosity. They’re either incorrectly geared and thus doing insignificant damage, they don’t know what fire/ice/barswap mechanics are. Even your healers could be incapable of healing a tank out of baneful mark.

You could argue - let’s prog and explain mechanics between those who do know what we’re doing. Dunno about you, but i’m EU server and I definitely don’t speak every single language that exists on it.

You’ll spend the next however long wiping and getting frustrated, maybe even people causing arguments over the ones consistently not learning.

Just join a dedicated prog team, this ideas awful.

Elendir2am · August 2022

Astrid wrote: »

Absolutely not.

Imagine you queue into the likes of well.. any vet trial really, but let’s use vCR as an example and majority of your group hasn’t set foot in it and joined out of curiosity. They’re either incorrectly geared and thus doing insignificant damage, they don’t know what fire/ice/barswap mechanics are. Even your healers could be incapable of healing a tank out of baneful mark.

You could argue - let’s prog and explain mechanics between those who do know what we’re doing. Dunno about you, but i’m EU server and I definitely don’t speak every single language that exists on it.

You’ll spend the next however long wiping and getting frustrated, maybe even people causing arguments over the ones consistently not learning.

Just join a dedicated prog team, this ideas awful.

Trial Activity Finder would be used (if implemented) for normal trials rides and Craglorn veteran rides if not only vHRA. Veteran PUGs would still use chat and achievements to prevent situation you are describing.

Fennorian · August 2022

I could see this for normal trials and perhaps veteran craglorn trials, but definitely not for vet DLC trials.

Hotdog_23 · August 2022

Think a normal trial finder would be just fine in the game. Sadly, it's been asked for several times and ignored by ZOS as many times.

Stay safe

Highstake · August 2022

We need is a group forming tool, diff from current.
Where peeps can join via open entry or passworded entry.
It means, the entire area will have lotsa groups being formed, some you can enter, others you can't. It's usability could extend to open map, tho really meant for trials.
Could have specs about team members.

PrimusTiberius · September 2022

DonEiosah wrote: »

Will anyone agree with me?

Nope....A PUG trial would be an absolute waist of time. Right now, players refuse to slot themselves in the right role for dungeon PUG runs. This past weekend while running Cauldron, a werewolf tried tanking with no taunts...lets just say it didn't go well and I ported out after several wipes. Can you imagine all the fake healers and fake tanks in a trial where mechanics are heavy? It would be laughable.

Do your self a favor, get with a Guild who teaches trial runs, there's a ton of them out there.