If you are a fake tank ...

Milchbart

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

deleted221106-002999

You let them get that far as as fake tank without kick or leaving yourself?

LOL

Lintashi

Agree. As healer, pugging 90% of the time, I have seen plenty of fake tanks. On one side, they are somewhat like cheaters, since they try to cut the line, and get daily done ahead of other dds. But it is true, with good dds and healer, tank is not exactly needed in most normal non dlc's and even in some vets. The problem is, that if our group kicks such character, we can spend next 40 mins waiting for another tank, without guarantee, that it would be real one. So in most times, I just go full overheal, and hope that dds just burn through most of mechanics.

Algorax

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

I both disagree and agree with you.

Lemme explain.
As someone with 18 characters, i can fill every role since i have a character for each occasion although sometimes my tanks are really too much for some pve situations.
I have some specific dds whose kit give enough resistances, sustain etc that they basically cannot die and then i just need to give them a frost staff or undaunted taunt and i can have a tanking dd who can easyly resist vet non-dlc bosses, with some RARE exceptions.
That said, the true capabilities of a "fake tank" are seen immediately: if he struggles with pulls, looses aggro and dies in 2 hits it is clearly garbage, but some "fake tank" are also prefrable because they boost your damage and allow faster runs.

So ye: smite the incompetent and praise the skilled.

Tommy_The_Gun

I was once accused of being a fake - tank...
... only because some one had an addon or something and I was doing same dps as our dps (7K or something like that)

On the other hand I once was kicked because I was the only one who did not died... you know... it was apparently huge injustice that dps died, healer died, but tank did not...

Algorax

Lintashi wrote: »

Agree. As healer, pugging 90% of the time, I have seen plenty of fake tanks. On one side, they are somewhat like cheaters, since they try to cut the line, and get daily done ahead of other dds. But it is true, with good dds and healer, tank is not exactly needed in most normal non dlc's and even in some vets. The problem is, that if our group kicks such character, we can spend next 40 mins waiting for another tank, without guarantee, that it would be real one. So in most times, I just go full overheal, and hope that dds just burn through most of mechanics.

I've been suggesting special rewards for tanks to incentivate the role for quite some time but with no avail...

Thoragaal

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

There's a plethora of fake tanks out there. However, not everyone's intention is to deliberately be a "fake" tank.
Many times people are just inexperienced.
I've seen people with more than 1000cp that doesn't use more than a single skill to DPS.
I've seen people with around 400cp that play like they'd been doing it for years.
Some people are just plain bad. Others have a several years of gaming experience. Some people just don't care.

Did you try helping this "fake tank" to better understand the basics of tanking?

Algorax

Thoragaal wrote: »

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

There's a plethora of fake tanks out there. However, not everyone's intention is to deliberately be a "fake" tank.
Many times people are just inexperienced.
I've seen people with more than 1000cp that doesn't use more than a single skill to DPS.
I've seen people with around 400cp that play like they'd been doing it for years.
Some people are just plain bad. Others have a several years of gaming experience. Some people just don't care.

Did you try helping this "fake tank" to better understand the basics of tanking?

Don't be elusive: we all know what "fake tanks" are, we are not talking about bad or noob tanks.

Canadagreen

I play tank and use group finder. Sometimes I get very poor DPS group even for not-diffcult dungeon. So I can switch to DD-role and re-equip my gear. Just for saving group's time. Tanking of common bosses is not a problem. Then I switch to tank back on a last boss.
But once (or more times) I got raging leavers who said I am silly fake tank. They didn't even die.
This is my story.

PeterUnlustig

If your a fake dd...
Well doesn't matter bc I can pull 25k DPS on my faketank while still having an effective 50k healthpool.
I don't get why people find it hard to create a DD/tank hybrid to get dailys done quick. I dislike fake dds more then faketanks but I never que as DD.

Eifleber

Tanking isn't that complicated; you get a sword'n'board, train the 1st three 1h + shield skills and get sturdy heavy gear with health and armour bonusses. And some health food.

Using that I'd say you can tank most or all of the normal dungeons and at least 50% of the vet dungeons.

If you are still faking you basically just deliberately refuse to heed the abovementioned.

Laranoye

I definetly notice when fake tanks appear, especially as a healer. This happens quite often, fortunetly not so much on vets.... on vet we just have quite obviously fresh dps testing out there rotations... in VET! arghh lol

But yes back to the original subject, More often than not i give them the benefit of the doubt as Algorax stated alot can tank and dps at the same time. this is very noticbale. but if not then I just leave or vote kick the fake tank..

Dusk_Coven

Algorax wrote: »

I've been suggesting special rewards for tanks to incentivate the role for quite some time but with no avail...

Fake tanks are already cheaters exploiting the queue. You want them to cheat and get the special reward too?
I think you underestimate the willingness of players to exploit whatever they can in this game.

Laranoye

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

I've been suggesting special rewards for tanks to incentivate the role for quite some time but with no avail...

Fake tanks are already cheaters exploiting the queue. You want them to cheat and get the special reward too?
I think you underestimate the willingness of players to exploit whatever they can in this game.

I think they mean, if there was incentive, more actual tanks would join to hopefully counter the fake tanks trying to join.
but yeah it wont stop fake tanks still trying.

I wonder how much work on the back end and thus how doable it would be to maybe scan the player for equptment and abilites and maybe cp? to then only allow them to select to join as tank?

Eifleber

Laranoye wrote: »

I definetly notice when fake tanks appear, especially as a healer. This happens quite often, fortunetly not so much on vets.... on vet we just have quite obviously fresh dps testing out there rotations... in VET! arghh lol

As fellow healer I can say that there's far more fake dd's (that take a lifetime killing bosses) in vets than fake tanks (that die a lot or 'kite tank' because they have no defenses to speak of).

Milchbart

PeterUnlustig wrote: »

If your a fake dd...
Well doesn't matter bc I can pull 25k DPS on my faketank while still having an effective 50k healthpool.
I don't get why people find it hard to create a DD/tank hybrid to get dailys done quick. I dislike fake dds more then faketanks but I never que as DD.

The problem with my fake tank this very morning was that he was also a fake dd ... :-(

Whenever I notice a fake tank in a pug I think to myself "ok, we are 3 dds the enemies will die fast just play a litte more careful when the boss is on me" but often the fake tank is a fake dd at the same time.

As I only pug when I'm on the 17th or 18th twink to get some undauntend points that makes it a little complicated to carry such a burden through a dungeon..

Varana

Souterain wrote: »

You let them get that far as as fake tank without kick or leaving yourself?

LOL

The rest of Selene's Web is not too difficult even with a fake tank - if he taunts and moves out of red, it's fine. Why kick him when you're getting stuff done?

Joxer61

I would tank more......I love the role, was always a tank in other games...WOW, GW2, the lot...but....ESO DD's don't allow for a "new" tank to learn the dungeons and just want to run ahead and zerg everything. So, I said f it.....cant be ass'd if people aren't going to have any patience and allow someone to learn mechanics and such.
You want a speed run...grab some friends. Not everyone is in a hurry.

Sarannah

Fake tanks/healers should get an accountwide ban from dungeon finder for a week, in my opinion. Really wish ZOS-staff would sometimes run dungeons, and inflict disciplinary actions against those cheaters.

Also, fake tanks do NOT increase the dps over a debuffing/buffing tank! Most of the time they are terrible DD's as well, despite what they themselves think. They also lower DPS by not holding aggro, basically disabling other DD's from doing dps/high dps. So even if your DPS meter shows you are the best dps'er as a fake tank, you are not!

FrancisCrawford

Canadagreen wrote: »

I play tank and use group finder. Sometimes I get very poor DPS group even for not-diffcult dungeon. So I can switch to DD-role and re-equip my gear. Just for saving group's time. Tanking of common bosses is not a problem. Then I switch to tank back on a last boss.
But once (or more times) I got raging leavers who said I am silly fake tank. They didn't even die.
This is my story.

Did you post a sentence or two to group chat about what you were doing?

CMDR_Un1k0rn

This thread proving once again my logic for playing as a real tank whenever I run content.

Also tanks can absolutely do damage as well. But they must be able to hold the enemies at the same time.

For normal content I run a 2h weapon on back. Because I can easily survive a taunted boss there whilst attacking and doing damage. Nobody ever complains because while I may be dealing damage, I am absolutely maintaining that taunt. Such a build also makes questing much more fun, and world bosses are great because from personal experience, most people don't carry a taunt in overland.

I do.

FrancisCrawford

Varana wrote: »

Souterain wrote: »

You let them get that far as as fake tank without kick or leaving yourself?

LOL

The rest of Selene's Web is not too difficult even with a fake tank - if he taunts and moves out of red, it's fine. Why kick him when you're getting stuff done?

The Selene fight is a lot harder than the others, because some of the adds are dangerous.

zvavi

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Souterain wrote: »

You let them get that far as as fake tank without kick or leaving yourself?

LOL

The rest of Selene's Web is not too difficult even with a fake tank - if he taunts and moves out of red, it's fine. Why kick him when you're getting stuff done?

The Selene fight is a lot harder than the others, because some of the adds are dangerous.

No they are not. Just if your dds are bad you gonna get zerged down by adds

Lintashi

Laranoye wrote: »

I think they mean, if there was incentive, more actual tanks would join to hopefully counter the fake tanks trying to join.
but yeah it wont stop fake tanks still trying.

I wonder how much work on the back end and thus how doable it would be to maybe scan the player for equptment and abilites and maybe cp? to then only allow them to select to join as tank?

Really good tanks, as well as healers, always carry several sets of equips for different situations. Same with abilities. Some use frost staff to tank, some undaunted skill, some other skill. There are times, when those, who, for some reason queued as dd, have spare tanking set in inventory, and skill for it. I, myself, always go as healer, and not a fake one, but if I sense, that group is good healtwise, but utterly lacks dps, I change sets, and use more of my dps skills. There are cp limitations already, although I would raise them slightly for dlc dungeons.

gatekeeper13

Fake tank = instant kick

No one asked for a fake tank in order to complete the dungeon faster.

If you want 3DD/1H run, form your own group and do it.

And the only reason fake tanks exist in group finder, is because some DDs don't want to wait in queue.

deleted221106-002999

Varana wrote: »

Souterain wrote: »

You let them get that far as as fake tank without kick or leaving yourself?

LOL

The rest of Selene's Web is not too difficult even with a fake tank - if he taunts and moves out of red, it's fine. Why kick him when you're getting stuff done?

Here's an arguably better rhetorical question - did you read the OP?

Thoragaal

Algorax wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

There's a plethora of fake tanks out there. However, not everyone's intention is to deliberately be a "fake" tank.
Many times people are just inexperienced.
I've seen people with more than 1000cp that doesn't use more than a single skill to DPS.
I've seen people with around 400cp that play like they'd been doing it for years.
Some people are just plain bad. Others have a several years of gaming experience. Some people just don't care.

Did you try helping this "fake tank" to better understand the basics of tanking?

Don't be elusive: we all know what "fake tanks" are, we are not talking about bad or noob tanks.

How do you manage to assess that the guy was a fake tank based solely on the fact that he died "to the first attack of Selene"?

Septimus_Magna

I dont like fake tanks but I can understand why they are created.

If you are tanking with a full tank setup you really dont need a healer for non-dlc dungeons.
If you have a dedicated healer its not necessary to have a full tank setup for non-dlc dungeons.

The group finder requires one tank and one healer so its pretty logical that the more difficult role to find gets faked to reduce queue time. If you can solo vet dungeons you know it only gets easier with a healer and 2 DDs, even if the DDs hardly produce any dps. Of course there are some people who overestimate their own skill and think they can fake tank with a full DD setup but when they miss a dodge or block they get one-shot.

ZeroXFF

Canadagreen wrote: »

I play tank and use group finder. Sometimes I get very poor DPS group even for not-diffcult dungeon. So I can switch to DD-role and re-equip my gear. Just for saving group's time. Tanking of common bosses is not a problem. Then I switch to tank back on a last boss.
But once (or more times) I got raging leavers who said I am silly fake tank. They didn't even die.
This is my story.

I had someone like you once in a PUG who changed gear and skills unannounced and without asking the group. After I had aggro on a boss all the time, and tried to kick the fake, he started crying about low dps. After one of the boss fights we linked our damage, and despite me having aggro most of the time, we had about the same dps. He did not take it as a reason to switch back to tank, he decided to instead sabotage the last boss fight until the group eventually decided to kick me because I refused to play tank when I didn't sign up for it, and insisted that the willfully fake one slots a taunt and doesn't die.

And for reference, the dps was 30k each on the troll in blessed crucible.

Milchbart

Thoragaal wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Milchbart wrote: »

... please don't die to the first attack of Selene ( shouldn't fake tanking dds have heard of dodge rolling?)

I'm so sick of fake tanks aka dds who claim " ... but tanks aren't needed in non-dlc vet dungeons ..."
If that's your opinion as a fake tank than at least prove that your capable of performing basic combat maneuvers.

There's a plethora of fake tanks out there. However, not everyone's intention is to deliberately be a "fake" tank.
Many times people are just inexperienced.
I've seen people with more than 1000cp that doesn't use more than a single skill to DPS.
I've seen people with around 400cp that play like they'd been doing it for years.
Some people are just plain bad. Others have a several years of gaming experience. Some people just don't care.

Did you try helping this "fake tank" to better understand the basics of tanking?

Don't be elusive: we all know what "fake tanks" are, we are not talking about bad or noob tanks.

How do you manage to assess that the guy was a fake tank based solely on the fact that he died "to the first attack of Selene"?

After he died to the first attack of Selene he got rezzed ... and during the rest of the very long fight Selene was mostly on me, there obviously was never a taunt on her and also no crowd control with the lots of adds. I was well occupied with keeping an eye on Selene to not get the bear attack, make some damage to the thousands of adds and somehow finish the fight.

Sergykid

so you consider someone a "tank" because it can bypass mechanics with his health and resistances? some mechanics, like your Selene example, are not to be tanked. Many bosses and mechanics don't require a tank. That's one of the reasons i have hybrid (that's what i like to call them instead of fake) tanks. They are equipped with a taunt and enough mitigation to survive average encounters. Depending on the difficulty, i lower the dps output and mitigate damage. Even with medium armor and no shield equipped, i can solo Selene (and pretty much any non-dlc vet). People i encounter quite often wouldn't even be able to finish dungeons even with real tanks, or would stay 1 hour for some dungeons.

playing a hybrid tank dps helps me bypass queue, helps me finish dungeons faster, helps others finish the dungeon faster (or at all). But i know mechanics and how to survive. So don't blame "fake" tanks, blame the people that do this without knowing what they are doing.