The Fake Tanks and Healers have gotten so bad, I don't even want to play anymore.

MakoRuu

I am so incredibly SICK AND TIRED of rolling an end game DLC Dungeon with new players under 600 CP that are FAKE TANKS AND HEALERS. And don't know the mechanics of a dungeon.

Just today, I was finishing up weekly endeavors, and we landed in March of Sacrifices. The Tank was a fake NB, only had around 400 CP, Dual Wielding and using Whirling Blades for everything, no taunt. CONTINUED TO DIE TO TRASH MOBS. Did not engage in conversation in the group chat when people were trying to help them, or called them out on being a fake tank.

We got to the first boss, which is the sisters, and the team wiped over and over again. The others kept saying "WE CAN DO IT, IT'S ONLY NORMAL." Myself, and only one other person over a thousand Champion Ranks.

I was DPS, doing 80% of the group damage (CombatMetrics.)

I finally gave up and just left, which I absolutely hate doing.

We need harsher punishments for false roles if Zos wants to keep collecting money from me. It's getting so bad that the duty finder is an absolute chore to use. You pray and beg for an easy dungeon just to get it over with.

I've been playing since the closed betas, and I'm closing in on 3500 hours on again off again time, and I don't even want to play anymore because of this massive problem.

Grandchamp1989

I know people say in PUG you get what you get, but people signed up for a ROLE que.

They signed up to fulfill a role.

I barely play normal, but even on vet the fake role is quite prominant.

I wish you could predict what role you would get more consistantly. The X factor should IMO be the skill gap between players, not wether or not people fulfill a role they signed up for, at its most basic level.

Jeremy

MakoRuu wrote: »

I am so incredibly SICK AND TIRED of rolling an end game DLC Dungeon with new players under 600 CP that are FAKE TANKS AND HEALERS. And don't know the mechanics of a dungeon.

Just today, I was finishing up weekly endeavors, and we landed in March of Sacrifices. The Tank was a fake NB, only had around 400 CP, Dual Wielding and using Whirling Blades for everything, no taunt. CONTINUED TO DIE TO TRASH MOBS. Did not engage in conversation in the group chat when people were trying to help them, or called them out on being a fake tank.

We got to the first boss, which is the sisters, and the team wiped over and over again. The others kept saying "WE CAN DO IT, IT'S ONLY NORMAL." Myself, and only one other person over a thousand Champion Ranks.

I was DPS, doing 80% of the group damage (CombatMetrics.)

I finally gave up and just left, which I absolutely hate doing.

We need harsher punishments for false roles if Zos wants to keep collecting money from me. It's getting so bad that the duty finder is an absolute chore to use. You pray and beg for an easy dungeon just to get it over with.

I've been playing since the closed betas, and I'm closing in on 3500 hours on again off again time, and I don't even want to play anymore because of this massive problem.

They need to split the random queue up between the base dungeons and the DLC dungeons. That would help.

You can get way with fake tanks on the base dungeons. But it's a lot trickier to make that work in the harder DLC ones.

Jeremy

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I know people say in PUG you get what you get, but people signed up for a ROLE que.

They signed up to fulfill a role.

I barely play normal, but even on vet the fake role is quite prominant.

I wish you could predict what role you would get more consistantly. The X factor should IMO be the skill gap between players, not wether or not people fulfill a role they signed up for, at its most basic level.

That would be the right thing to do, is for people to actually play the role they signed up for instead of lying to cut in line. But good luck convincing them to stop doing it.

McTaterskins

Try actually being a tank and having every other yahoo that jumps in using Inner Fire to "improve their dps".

It's irritating. I'm oh so happy they increased the damage increase on it. It makes it so great. /sarcasm.

tmbrinks

Do I get to yell at the fake DPS when I queue as an actual tank, in tank gear, and still do 50%+ of the DPS?

or when I queue as a real healer (with a resto staff!!) and do 80%+?

Muttsmutt

you can't get a bad fake tank if YOU are the fake tank.
if you're capable of soloing the dungeon, just grab a taunt and queue as tank.
by taunting & staying alive, you'll do absolutely everything a real tank would need to do for a random normal.

relevant thread.

Xebov

MakoRuu wrote: »

We need harsher punishments for false roles if Zos wants to keep collecting money from me. It's getting so bad that the duty finder is an absolute chore to use. You pray and beg for an easy dungeon just to get it over with.

This will not realy work. You would need to find a way to reliably detect fake roles. Players saying its a fake is not good enought. At the same time you need to protect players in that role from being falsely detected, especially less experienced newcomers. That is very hard to manage. The same would go for adding requirements to roles as tehy can also negatively impact genuine players.

FeedbackOnly

Got to improve situation for tanks and healers. If you design content for just DPS...then you get what we got now.

People are faking roles because queue is too long and frankly tanks and healers aren't needed

Raideen

The fake tanking and fake healing is real.

I can't count the number of times this past week that a fake tank queued without a taunt, died to bosses or even trash (
Falkreath Hold) or had fake healers who refused to heal the party.

My GF and I got so tired of it, I just went in as a tank (with a taunt) on my magplar, and she got on a low level toon and queued as a healer (who actually heals). This way we could circumvent some of the issues, but we still had the random 1800 CP DPS come in and run past us and leave the entire group behind.

Its really out of control. I know these players just want to get in, get their loot and get out..but the design of the game allows for this terrible behavior.

Had the game been designed like long standing MMORPGS where tanks are meant to tank everything, and healers are meant to heal, not DPS and DPS get 2/3 shot by trash mobs, then we would not have the problem we have today.

Jeremy

Raideen wrote: »

The fake tanking and fake healing is real.

I can't count the number of times this past week that a fake tank queued without a taunt, died to bosses or even trash (
Falkreath Hold) or had fake healers who refused to heal the party.

My GF and I got so tired of it, I just went in as a tank (with a taunt) on my magplar, and she got on a low level toon and queued as a healer (who actually heals). This way we could circumvent some of the issues, but we still had the random 1800 CP DPS come in and run past us and leave the entire group behind.

Its really out of control. I know these players just want to get in, get their loot and get out..but the design of the game allows for this terrible behavior.

Had the game been designed like long standing MMORPGS where tanks are meant to tank everything, and healers are meant to heal, not DPS and DPS get 2/3 shot by trash mobs, then we would not have the problem we have today.

You're not wrong. Ultimately the design of the game itself is the root cause.

Raideen

Jeremy wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

The fake tanking and fake healing is real.

I can't count the number of times this past week that a fake tank queued without a taunt, died to bosses or even trash (
Falkreath Hold) or had fake healers who refused to heal the party.

My GF and I got so tired of it, I just went in as a tank (with a taunt) on my magplar, and she got on a low level toon and queued as a healer (who actually heals). This way we could circumvent some of the issues, but we still had the random 1800 CP DPS come in and run past us and leave the entire group behind.

Its really out of control. I know these players just want to get in, get their loot and get out..but the design of the game allows for this terrible behavior.

Had the game been designed like long standing MMORPGS where tanks are meant to tank everything, and healers are meant to heal, not DPS and DPS get 2/3 shot by trash mobs, then we would not have the problem we have today.

You're not wrong. Ultimately the design of the game itself is the root cause.

Exactly. At the end of the day a game is created ground up. What players can and can not do in that game are a result of the design of the game (well coding as well, but that usually falls into exploits/bugs).

I imagine the developers fully understand the problems and have brainstormed countless hours on how to solve the issues, but the issue runs deep, to the core of how combat is designed....its not an easy fix.

Its a tough problem to solve for sure. I would not want to be in their positions.

MakoRuu

Muttsmutt wrote: »

you can't get a bad fake tank if YOU are the fake tank.
if you're capable of soloing the dungeon, just grab a taunt and queue as tank.
by taunting & staying alive, you'll do absolutely everything a real tank would need to do for a random normal.

relevant thread.

I already run three tanks. DK, Warden, and Templar. I have 12 characters sadly. It's a problem.

KaGaOri

Decided to bite the bullet and add tank toon to my dd and healer. Trying to level undaunted to unlock inner fire and, saddly, dungeons are not exactly fun at this stage. Wonder if all those high cp players who run past my lvl 15 tank and solo everything are the same people who will be later complaining about lack of real tanks in the end game.

With heavy armor speed penalty and no cp speed bonus my tank moves at speed of geriatric snail in comparison, so most fights are almost over when I get there and offten get there with not enough stamina to taunt before boss is dead. Of course quest can be finished only if npcs speak fast enough. And yes, I write in chat I have a quest beforehand, there are even 2 of us questing sometimes - rest of group doesn't care.

Maybe shouldn't complain, since getting insta-queue + getting hard-carried. Problem is I'm not learning how to tank and it will become problem at some point as more dungeons unlock for the toon. Easily could end up stuck in just the easy base game content for a long time / permanently this way. Bet that's where all those missing end game tanks are - runing easy content only or have given up tanking entirely.

Wish ZOS found some way to discourage high levels speedrunning easy content in spite of low level toons, instead of encouraging it with rewards.

Sheezabeast

You need to do what I did the other day. It randomed me the Icereach dungeon. Fake tank. First boss one shots people three times. They run ahead. Mobs all over the place. No crowd control, people almost dying. I stop and try to initiate vote kick on fake tank. Everyone stops. They ask why. I say we need a tank. They say we don't need. Vote gets declined. I say I won't heal for a fake tank, and I quit the group and port out. I ate the penalty, hated doing that, but I will not heal for a fake tank. I will not enable idiocy.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Then make a tank, that way you wont get any fake tank ever while on that character! Believe me it work marvelously!!! I did it myself and the result were almost instantaneous!! Please try it, i think you will be amazed on how well being the tank repel the fake tank from your group! And its even easier to acheive with the armory system!

Nanfoodle

It's really simple fix, make tanks be tanks and healers healers, even when you have 1500+ CP. I main as a healer and feel that Zeni dose not support the roles this game has. Specing deeper into healing should cut away at your DPS. Specing into tanking should do the same. Hybrid builds are just to powerful.

Most MMOs really chicken wing classes that are true hybrids. They are normally flawed in some major way. I love ESO but unless Zeni makes tanks and healers shine at their roles and make them really needed. This game will by the hybrid game play.

MakoRuu

Read up a bit.

WildLight

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Then make a tank, that way you wont get any fake tank ever while on that character! Believe me it work marvelously!!! I did it myself and the result were almost instantaneous!! Please try it, i think you will be amazed on how well being the tank repel the fake tank from your group!

Not sure what's the point of your sass.
And OP stated they have 3 tanks already. Having a tank toon doesn't mean one doesn't want to play some other role in random dungeon. And they certainly should not be punished for it by inconsiderate people who think their time is more valuable than time of others and just jump the queue by faking.

peacenote

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Got to improve situation for tanks and healers. If you design content for just DPS...then you get what we got now.

People are faking roles because queue is too long and frankly tanks and healers aren't needed

I respectfully disagree with almost every part of this.

The content people are flying through now benefited from tanks and healers in 2014. The issue is not design, but power creep. Which the new CP system was supposed to fix, but didn't. DPS and resistances are so high now that mechanics, design, and original intent can be ignored and skipped in older content.

A tank and 1 - 3 healers could also EASILY clear a lot of that content. So maybe DPS aren't needed? :P

ZOS has yet to specifically design content for a DPS-only configuration, and in newer dungeons and trials that is evident. People fake roles as DPS because, as with all MMOs since the beginning of time, more people want to be DPS for a variety of reasons. People are successfully clearing the content when doing this because of power creep.

I suppose one could say that with better design, power creep wouldn't occur, but I guarantee you the devs don't get together and say "let's build in some power creep while we're at it." It just is what happens as MMOs age and players are given advancement.

I agree that the queue is too long. My friend and I queued as a healer and tank for Icereach and had to give up because the queue never popped. We duo'ed it instead, with one DPS and one healer. It was much more effective than duoing it with two DPS.

AlnilamE

peacenote wrote: »

I agree that the queue is too long. My friend and I queued as a healer and tank for Icereach and had to give up because the queue never popped. We duo'ed it instead, with one DPS and one healer. It was much more effective than duoing it with two DPS.

If that happens, drop the queue and retry. I think that's a bug.

francesinhalover

What if zen sets a restriction like

"You can queue has healer if you don't have a restoration staff" or tank if you don't have sword n shield...

tmbrinks

francesinhalover wrote: »

What if zen sets a restriction like

"You can queue has healer if you don't have a restoration staff" or tank if you don't have sword n shield...

As a templar, I can easily heal almost any dungeon w/o a resto staff between the 4 or 5 healing class skills I have.

Snow_White

The only reason end gamers are queueing random normals is for the easy 10 transmutes.

Easiest way to reduce the power imbalance is to get rid of the easy transmutes in normal and incentivize us to queue for vet.

redspecter23

Snow_White wrote: »

The only reason end gamers are queueing random normals is for the easy 10 transmutes.

Easiest way to reduce the power imbalance is to get rid of the easy transmutes in normal and incentivize us to queue for vet.

That would push the problem into vet.

The solution, though unpopular would be to remove the transmutes completely as well as the xp bonus for random. An alternative solution would be to allow groups of any size to queue for the random. Players could then solo to their heart's content without affecting other players. This would remove their ability to backfill for other groups if they chose to queue as 1, 2 or 3 players total, but if they don't want/need to group with others, they are the exact type of people that you don't want mixing in the queue anyway potentially. They could still queue for a full group and backfill, but there would be the option to just go run the dungeon at their own pace giving them a way to speed run (or even do a slower paced run) without worrying about the needs of the randoms in the group.

neferpitou73

[Snip]

tmbrinks wrote: »

Do I get to yell at the fake DPS when I queue as an actual tank, in tank gear, and still do 50%+ of the DPS?

or when I queue as a real healer (with a resto staff!!) and do 80%+?

Yeah I'll agree to all of these ridiculous fake tanking solutions when they add a parse requirement for DDs.

I've tried to actually tank as a pug. It is one of the most frustrating experiences in the game. Especially when it's an easy normal dungeon and the dps don't have the DPS to burn down any of the bosses and ignore the mechanics I tell them. Especially when it's a dungeon I know I can solo on my dps.

And I don't buy the excuse "fake DDs are doing nothing wrong because at least they're trying!!" Yes they are...and they're failing. And holding the group back as a result.

[Edited for bait]

Rataroto

Suppose I queue as a Tank, on a DPS character.

1. I taunt literally everything and even group up mobs via LOS.
2. I do not die.
3. I keep agro of boss during fights.
4. I self sustain and heal myself.

Just because I'm wearing medium/light armor using dual wield/2h/bow/inferno staves, does that make me a fake tank?

Unironically curious at the answer. Or rather, the answer to "What qualifies as a tank?"

> I don't queue as fake heals, because I can't provide stam heals xD. (But what if you were a stamden with lots of aoe heals, but you're also a dps?). Keep in mind, these are questions for NORMAL DUNGEONS. Since I don't do veteran dungeons with randoms.

Amottica

Since I started playing ESO earlier this year and checking the forums from time to time over the years, I have seen these threads complaining about fake tanks, fake healers, and DDs that are not doing actual damage and die often. Here was have someone who may be on the verge of quitting the game over all of this. At what point does someone find it better to seek and join a good active guild where they can form a group or most of a group and be the solution to these problems they are complaining about?

I can attest that once you find that guild dolng dungeons and other content are so much better than most random groups via the GF and is a whole lot more pleasant than talking about these bad experiences in the forums. You will also find those tanks that do not queue solo for dungones. There seems to be plenty.

ArchMikem

Stories like this account only strengthen the pride I take when I go into Dungeons as a Tank or Healer, and I actually spent the effort building and playing as one. I always hope my effort is appreciated, even if expected.

jerj6925

tmbrinks wrote: »

Do I get to yell at the fake DPS when I queue as an actual tank, in tank gear, and still do 50%+ of the DPS?

or when I queue as a real healer (with a resto staff!!) and do 80%+?

Why wouldnt you??

Kr4ftw3rkub17_ESO

Rataroto wrote: »

Suppose I queue as a Tank, on a DPS character.

1. I taunt literally everything and even group up mobs via LOS.
2. I do not die.
3. I keep agro of boss during fights.
4. I self sustain and heal myself.

Just because I'm wearing medium/light armor using dual wield/2h/bow/inferno staves, does that make me a fake tank?

Unironically curious at the answer. Or rather, the answer to "What qualifies as a tank?"

> I don't queue as fake heals, because I can't provide stam heals xD. (But what if you were a stamden with lots of aoe heals, but you're also a dps?). Keep in mind, these are questions for NORMAL DUNGEONS. Since I don't do veteran dungeons with randoms.

Are you able to taunt, turn the boss away from the group and keep it in ONE spot, maintain agro and sustain your health while taking damage... all the while standing still? Because once you move - the boss chase begins. If you can... good on you, you're one of the few, but most fake tanks end up running around with the boss in tow leaving all the aoe damage laid down by the damage dealers ineffective which is a waste of resources not to mention all of a sudden the bosses A.D.D. switches its' attention to some other player... lol.

I think most veteran players have learned to set them selves up with a good damage shield for normal dungeon runs anyways. Also pretty sure the 1st thing a veteran player does, after seeing what dungeon they've queued into is check the group levels 1st. I know I do and if the levels are appear good enough for that particular dungeon then I'll stay... even when finding out the tank/healer might actually be damage dealers.

I've found that most base dungeons, if not all, can be completed with 4 smart (meaning - knowing the mechanics) damage dealers with good damage shields. But as others have said, there are certain DLC dungeons (even on normal) that really call for a real tank and healer.