What is a fake tank?

Yakidafi

In 4 man pve content.

I see this is brought up quite alot, but I don't understand what is seen as a fake tank by most.

LifenLemons

A fake tank is a VW. At least my dad used to think so....

TheCyberDruid

Several of options above

It's mainly the 'no taunt', but also low HP and res.

Chrysa1is

Other

Someone who pretends to be a tank, but they're not.

witchdoctor

Several of options above

No taunt for sure.

Also, WW.

Yakidafi

No taunt

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Someone who pretends to be a tank, but they're not.

@Chrysa1is
What is a tank?

ArchMikem

Several of options above

1. Doesn't Taunt
2. Doesn't use 1h&Shield
3. Has less than 30k Health
(optional 4.) Isn't wearing Ebon

Just those three things is enough to make me either kick or leave. The fourth is optional because a legit Tank can still perform without the set, but it's been so long since Ebon became standard gear for the role that when you don't see red orbs around the supposed Tank then it's safe to become a little suspicious.

Chrysa1is

Other

Yakidafi wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Someone who pretends to be a tank, but they're not.

@Chrysa1is
What is a tank?

Transformers! Robots in disguise!

Sparr0w

No taunt

ArchMikem wrote: »

1. Doesn't Taunt
2. Doesn't use 1h&Shield
3. Has less than 30k Health
(optional 4.) Isn't wearing Ebon

Just those three things is enough to make me either kick or leave. The fourth is optional because a legit Tank can still perform without the set, but it's been so long since Ebon became standard gear for the role that when you don't see red orbs around the supposed Tank then it's safe to become a little suspicious.

1. Yes
2. I've seen great ice staff tanks, I've also tanked using a 2H on a StamBlade.
3. Again seen great tanks with sub 30k health. Only really need more on Vet DLC dungeons or Vet trials.
4. Ebon is great in trials, dungeons not so much (Trials it gives an effective 13k+, dungeons 4k+)

starkerealm

Several of options above

Yeah, the no taunt, low HP, and fragile are the big ones. To be fair, if they have low HP and can survive, that's less of a problem. You'll sometimes, rarely, see low health shield tanks. Lack of a taunt is the other big issue most of the time.

Not being able to control adds and mobs can be an issue in some content. Chains, buffs and debuffs are useful, but not necessary.

BejaProphet

Other

Personally, I distinguish between a bad tank and a fake tank.

A fake tank is somebody who ques for the role with no intention of actually fulfilling the role. So long as they are intending to function as a tank, I don't call them fake. They just might not be any good at it.

Guppet

Several of options above

ArchMikem wrote: »

1. Doesn't Taunt
2. Doesn't use 1h&Shield
3. Has less than 30k Health
(optional 4.) Isn't wearing Ebon

Just those three things is enough to make me either kick or leave. The fourth is optional because a legit Tank can still perform without the set, but it's been so long since Ebon became standard gear for the role that when you don't see red orbs around the supposed Tank then it's safe to become a little suspicious.

The first 3 are true. Tanks in no way need ebon. Ebon is enabling dps to just suck. Dps in vets should have 16-17k health and know not to stand in red.

To me fake simply means has no intention of tanking. They don’t taunt bosses, don’t keep them in one place, don’t herd packs, can’t survive any hits.

If you keep a boss in one place and don’t die doing that, that’s good enough for me.

Of course I’m normally the tank.

Jameliel

No taunt

Me on my sorc when I want to farm a normal dungeon, but have no mood to wait an hour in que, and when I'm hoping some kind soul will get what I need and trade me.

Elwendryll

No taunt

You know, I already "tanked" some vet HM with my DD setup with guildies/friends, and a lot of players did. 16k health, DW/Bow, just inner fire slotted. Yes, that's totally not what a regular PUG group would need, but the Boss was standing still in our AOEs, and nobody died.

Edit: My point was that "fake" is determined only by the intention. And the taunt is the proof of that. You're a tank as long as you're trying to keep the boss away from your allies.

Thannazzar

Several of options above

ArchMikem wrote: »

1. Doesn't Taunt
2. Doesn't use 1h&Shield
3. Has less than 30k Health
(optional 4.) Isn't wearing Ebon

Just those three things is enough to make me either kick or leave. The fourth is optional because a legit Tank can still perform without the set, but it's been so long since Ebon became standard gear for the role that when you don't see red orbs around the supposed Tank then it's safe to become a little suspicious.

2. Or frost staff if magicka Warden northern wind build.
4. I'm a tough love tank, when outside trials and dlc vets I never wear ebon (your health pool is your problem, as is the fact you don't have 15k resist)

paulsimonps

Several of options above

No Taunt, No Crowd Control, No Debuff. They can have as much health as they want and be as sturdy as can be but without that then they are no tank. That being said, I am fine with some "fake" tanks in normal dungeons, basically if you can kill everything fast enough that it doesn't matter then I am ok with it, never ok with it in Veteran or if they can't kill stuff and it becomes a problem.

ceil420

Several of options above

A tank has two primary functions: taking the brunt of the damage, and controlling the flow of the fight (keeping enemies where they need to be). Other things like buffing the DPS are stuff good tanks can do, but they do have a specific job that they need to do to be considered a tank at all.

For the first part, tanks need to be able to take a beating. Whether that's in the form of a high HP pool (good for withstanding burst damage), high Physical+Spell resistance (good for withstanding sustained damage), or have some other means of holding the enemy's attention without dying because of it is whatever. I wouldn't draw a hard line like a 30k health requirement - the main thing is that they need to stay alive while being the focus of the enemies' efforts.

On a related note, they need to be the focus of the enemies' efforts. Again, they don't need to do this with any piece of gear in particular, be it S&B or a Frost Staff or what have you, but they do need to be able to reliably keep the enemy focused on them, and not on the healers or DPS. A tank should not rely on swinging the biggest DPS dk in the group to accomplish this, but should have actual taunts.

Furthermore, they should be using these taunts to keep the enemies where they need to be - preferably held in one place as the fight allows to maximise the efforts of the 2-8 DPS in the group. If there's cleave, face the boss in a predictable fashion so you're not letting that damage get through to the group; if stupid is being dropped on the ground, make sure there's always an opening for mDPS to get to where they need to be to deal damage.

These are just the basic requirements for a tank. Like another poster above, I make a distinction between the ignorant and the apathetic - if a tank isn't meeting these requirements, I'll let them know first, in case they really are just new to the role or don't fully understand it. Tanking is a pretty demanding role, and requires a lot more of players than some give them credit for. However, if they do know what a tank is supposed to do, and just aren't doing it, that's a "fake tank".

Newbie tanks, get these basics down, first. Then you can really get good and start buffing the group and managing your own damage output and all those other niceties that exceptionally skilled tanks have to offer.

Anhedonie

Like fake taxi but everybody is ***.

starkerealm

Several of options above

Elwendryll wrote: »

You know, I already "tanked" some vet HM with my DD setup with guildies/friends, and a lot of players did. 16k health, DW/Bow, just inner fire slotted. Yes, that's totally not what a regular PUG group would need, but the Boss was standing still in our AOEs, and nobody died.

If you're in a preconstructed group, and the party is queuing for roles because they're convenient, that's not quite fake tanking. Even less so because you were slotting inner fire, so you at least had the idea of tanking. It's players that run DPS, but want a quick queue, so they pick tank (or all three roles) that we're talking about.

Merlin13KAGL

Several of options above

Do you know what a tank is? A fake tank is not one of those, yet role selected as such.

A fake tank is 10x worse than a bad tank, any day of the week.

starkerealm

Several of options above

BejaProphet wrote: »

Personally, I distinguish between a bad tank and a fake tank.

A fake tank is somebody who ques for the role with no intention of actually fulfilling the role. So long as they are intending to function as a tank, I don't call them fake. They just might not be any good at it.

Yeah, this is a fair point. I've run into bad tanks before, I'm way more forgiving of them. They're learning, it's cool, we were all there once. Same reason I'm usually more forgiving of werewolf tanks, if they'll stop wolfing out, once they realize they can't taunt in form. Sure, it's something you shouldn't do, but it's a reasonable mistake to make. Especially if they found info from back before 1.5, when you wanted your tanks to be wolves for the free stam recovery.

VaranisArano

No taunt

Someone queued as a tank who is not and has no intention of doing the job of the tank. Holding boss aggro is my basic requirement for a tank.

Rex-Umbra

No taunt

Taunt is min for normal

sudaki_eso

Several of options above

VaranisArano wrote: »

Someone queued as a tank who is not and has no intention of doing the job of the tank. Holding boss aggro is my basic requirement for a tank.

^this, had a fake tank yesterday, a bow tank worked till the final boss and then the group failed 3 times before he left. got a new tank and we did it without much problems, ok the healer needed explantions how the mechanics wored but we did it. thanks again nordi for helping us out and explaining the mechanics #thumbsup

JobooAGS

Several of options above

1. No taunt
2. Dies a lot
3. To a lesser extent, No trash cc or buffs/debuffs in general

psxfloh

Other

No taunt
or
taunt, but dies alot

No debuffs => a magicka dd or healer with a destro might as well slot and cast ele drain!
Dies alot => see above
Low hp => only if that's a problem
No 1h+shield or ice staff => there's still the taunt from the undaunted skill line
No roots or chains on mobs => only meh if the DDs are sh*t, with good DDs it's nice to have but won't take significantly longer without
Me => sometimes, according to some of the definitions here (but don't worry: I won't do vet DLC dungeons like that!)

Prof_Bawbag

Since i built a tank and kinda persevered with it, my two main issues are, 1) using chains. If I had £1 for every time I'm missed my target amongst the crowds (usually hitting the same target twice), I wouldn't be sat here typing this. I'd be sat on a Yacht in the med. The second is talons. Almost always I have to activate it twice in quick succession as the first doesn't seem to register 9/10. No idea if it's just missing the animation or what (doesn't seem to be as the npcs still move), but the second always snares them.

My peeves and they're something i never ever noticed before I made a tank, how poor the dps guys usually are in 4 man dungeons and the lack of utility most so called healers have. Imo, the fault usually runs through the spine of the team I get landed with. No just one person.

Kuramas9tails

Several of options above

Me, when I am a Mageblade queueing as a tank. (for normal only or for vet runs with friends)

inthecoconut

No taunt

Nothing wrecks squishies more than a boss without a leash.

RodneyRegis

The second is talons. Almost always I have to activate it twice in quick succession as the first doesn't seem to register 9/10.

This is a pain in the ass. It's like you need to be in combat to fire it.

ghastley

Several of options above

ArchMikem wrote: »

1. Doesn't Taunt
2. Doesn't use 1h&Shield
3. Has less than 30k Health
(optional 4.) Isn't wearing Ebon

Just those three things is enough to make me either kick or leave. The fourth is optional because a legit Tank can still perform without the set, but it's been so long since Ebon became standard gear for the role that when you don't see red orbs around the supposed Tank then it's safe to become a little suspicious.

The reason for (2) is to have a taunt available, so this is just (1) again. If you have another source of taunt, that's fine. I'd agree with (3) only in context. It's a case of "doesn't have enough health for this dungeon" that matters. Higher regen can also offset a lower value.

And I'd avoid Ebon just to eliminate the red orbs. It's not the only tank set out there.