Which "fake" role makes your dungeon group fail most?

RageKing

curious which role in group are you finding to be the cause of a failed dungeon run.

Khajiitihaswares

This make an interesting poll... I have tank and healer that come with me whenever I run dungeons so WE get the once in blue

moon fake dps we kick for a real one.

Linaleah

depends on a dungeon and whether its normal or vet.

Eedat

Fake Tank

Depends on the dungeon and difficulty but for the actual hard ones, not having a tank leads to people getting one shot left and right. On normal dungeons and a lot of easier vet ones I prefer fake healer over a real one lol

ElCapitanAmericano

Fake DPS

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

Gythral

fake 'server'

zvavi

Fake DPS

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group

This is so, so, so, so wrong. There are so many fake tanks and heals, that don't freaking know how to play, and just skip queue. While I agree that fake dds are a plague (the last 2 random vets I did on my dedicated tanks, I had 30%+ of the damage). Many times if not most, those fake tanks/heals, are actually fake dds that skip queue.

RageKing

Fake DPS

I should have specified veteran dungeons. But it seems we got alot of people queing as dps and not pulling their weight.

I mainly tank because when I first started I felt my dps was underpar and didnt want to be carried so made a few healers and tanks and have since stuck with them. But it seems there are alot of less considerate players in the game and feel no shame in queing as a dps and putting out less numbers than tank or healer.

Hoping the devs finally implement some sort of role check before you can que for veteran dungeon, sadly I doubt they will implement such a thing.

LalMirchi

zvavi wrote: »

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group

This is so, so, so, so wrong. There are so many fake tanks and heals, that don't freaking know how to play, and just skip queue. While I agree that fake dds are a plague (the last 2 random vets I did on my dedicated tanks, I had 30%+ of the damage). Many times if not most, those fake tanks/heals, are actually fake dds that skip queue.

I would still blame the game for not having proper tutorials for new players.

Just a suggestion:

A repeatable Get Good quest.

It's should be always there in the Quest Journal, fire it up with your current characer and have a go.

At the end you get rated and know your strengths/weaknesses for your current character.

Repeatable so you can fine tune your toon. {Pun intended}

Whatever your goal you now have a metric to judge yourself.

I really think most players would like to get better, I know I would.

ElCapitanAmericano

Fake DPS

RageKing wrote: »

I should have specified veteran dungeons.

In that case, a real tank can carry a fake healer and conversely a real healer can carry a fake tank. As far as DPS goes a real DPS can carry a fake DPS, but if both DPS are fake then a real tank and a real healer can still carry the fake DPS, but its going to take a long time.

CaptainVenom

Fake Healer

(I picked the wrong option, I'm so stupid lol)

As a true healer myself, fake tanks for sure. On normal non-DLC it's kinda annoying not having someone taunting bosses, but it's still okay. On Vet or DLC Dungeons, I'll quit right away once I find out we got a fake tank (and I can assure you, we true healers know when we're dealing with a fake tank, even before the first boss).

In any case, I know Damage queue is long and stuff... but if you play as damage, there's nothing anyone can do about it, I'm afraid. But please, don't try to be a smartass going for tank and/or healer queues. You will ruin other people's experience for your own greed.

Btw I don't think there are "fake damage". Why would someone queue for damage if they are tank or healer, knowing it would take longer? lol. Maybe OP meant Weak DPS.

Starlock

"Fake" roles are rarely the issue in my experience - the dungeons that are more likely to fail have more complex mechanics and if the teamwork isn't there to follow the mechanics, it's a loss.

That said, in 4-person dungeons I tank almost exclusively. If the damage dealers are mediocre, it's fine - it just means it takes a bit longer to clear the dungeon and I actually get the wonderful opportunity to pay attention to the mechanics! If the healer is mediocre, that is also usually fine - I have enough off-heals that I can generally cover for the group for most content. However, if both of these are mediocre or perhaps straight up absent in the case of heals? That's where it is a problem. The one vet dungeon group I dropped during the event so far had that problem. We had a healer who didn't heal (like, at all), damage dealers who did poor damage (and also stood in red a lot) and I just could not keep everyone alive on top of doing my job as the tank.

x48rph

Fake DPS

I wouldn't really call it Fake DPS though. More like people that just don't put out enough to make the dungeon remotely doable. Granted with enough time and patience, you can do a lot of them with low dps by following mechanics, but who wants to spend a couple hours just to run a 4 man vet dungeon. A few also have dps check where you literally can't get by without enough. Fake healer isn't a big deal cause I can always slot a self heal and even fake tank is doable cause most things can be dodged instead of blocked so while harder, it's not the end of the world and most fake tanks are dps so things die faster at least.

Merlin13KAGL

Zatox wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

@Zatox You should check the box that locks you out of using RDF. If someone mentions they have the quest, even the most chatty dungeons don't take that much extra time to allow someone to take in the story. You can move ahead and clear trash, you can vendor, you can shuffle inventory, or [Snip] wait patiently while they hear a few lines of dialogue.

If you're going for a specific outcome, speed run, etc, use a premade. Use a premade until they come up with the selection options that allow one to pick the playstyles they're willing to group with, and then prepare to wait even longer to queue if that style is not checked on someone else's list.

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

@ElCapitanAmericano This is also complete BS.

The real answer to this poll is option 4. Any fake role brings the efficiency of the group down. You might be able to pull it off with a fake role, depending on the player skills and the dungeon in question, but your odds go down dramatically.

In short, do your damn job. I take zero issue with someone learning. I'll wipe 20 times to help someone get better at a fight when they're new to the role or new to the mechanics. Everyone started somewhere.

If you really believed the nonsense above, you'd roll in with 4 DPS every time and have no need for the other roles. I know for a fact some of the content will happily hand you your ass without competent version of all three.

Real penalties for faking it, 4 man premade excluded - gamble as you like, and a training arena Gauntlet for each role allowing one to practice and improve solo, duo, or even 4 man, without dragging others into it if they don't want to be.

The game is 90% at fault. 8% is attitudes like the two above. And maybe, jjust maybe, genuine fake roles fill the last kick-worthy 2%.

[Edited for bashing]

ElCapitanAmericano

Fake DPS

Zatox wrote: »

Angry rant

I think you missed the line that said "Normal non-dlc". With only a couple exceptions, almost every single one of these dungeons can be solo'd by any player who has the skillset to complete the Maelstrom arena, which isn't saying much.

Zatox

Fake DPS

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

If you're going for a specific outcome, speed run, etc, use a premade. Use a premade until they come up with the selection options that allow one to pick the playstyles they're willing to group with, and then prepare to wait even longer to queue if that style is not checked on someone else's list.

Use premade if you want to roleplay. Im gonna play how i like it. Most of the time i have at least one group member, who's like to rush and he is dont vote for kicking me.

zaria

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

I should have specified veteran dungeons.

In that case, a real tank can carry a fake healer and conversely a real healer can carry a fake tank. As far as DPS goes a real DPS can carry a fake DPS, but if both DPS are fake then a real tank and a real healer can still carry the fake DPS, but its going to take a long time.

Agree, now if the fake tank has decent dps I can keep him alive on healer but it cost dps on my side.
Has three modes on healer, 1 is DD / heal: extended ritual, Ritual of Rebirth and Energy Orb.
Dungeon healer with resto staff and SPC then above is not enough and trial healing for trials.

Jeremy

Fake Tank

RageKing wrote: »

curious which role in group are you finding to be the cause of a failed dungeon run.

Tank. Hands down.

They're the most difficult to replace, because they are the rarest of roles. If you get saddled with a fake tank on any difficult Veteran Dungeon you might as well just leave and save yourself the time. Because the penalty is going to be nothing compared to the time you are going to end up wasting.

redspecter23

Fake Tank

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

This is true 99% of the time, guaranteed.

Vevvev

Fake Tank

And... I voted before fully reading all 3 options like an idiot. Fake DPS not fake Tanks leads to the vast majority of failures I run into. Fake Tanks are a close second though.

Ackwalan

The fake team member. The guy that runs ahead ignoring the group, just like the guy that falls way behind because they have to click on everything. Anyone that doesn't realize there are 3 other people in the dungeon so they just make everything take longer.

FlopsyPrince

Fake Healer

Khajiitihaswares wrote: »

This make an interesting poll... I have tank and healer that come with me whenever I run dungeons so WE get the once in blue

moon fake dps we kick for a real one.

How do you get a "fake DPS"?

OlumoGarbag

Fake DPS

I never que as DD unless it's premade. So I can't tell if fake tanks are that big of a deal but in 99% of cases when I que on hybrid tank/DD I have around 50% of the group Dps.

I don't even get how people can hit so freaking low numbers. If you slot 3 proc sets and just light attack you can easily hit 10-15k Dps even on super low cp.

Yet every second DD I get grouped with spends all the time light attacking.

The game needs a tutorial on roles!

RageKing

Fake DPS

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Khajiitihaswares wrote: »

This make an interesting poll... I have tank and healer that come with me whenever I run dungeons so WE get the once in blue

moon fake dps we kick for a real one.

How do you get a "fake DPS"?

a "dps" that does less than 10k dps is a fake dps. I dont buy this "there is no fake dps only bad dps". that can be said for any role.
Would you call a tank that constantly dies and doesnt taunt a bad tank or fake tank?

if your 5k dps is just bad dps. then a tank who doesnt keep boss taunted and wears light armour is just a bad tank right?

Too much slack given to these players who que a s a dps but dont put out reasonable dps numbers. They are written off as bad builds. But if tank or healer isnt doing their job in slightest its completely their fault and everyone cries fault.

Imagine being a tank and never tanked anything and dont have any tanking skills and think. im gonna go tank vet trials. would you call him a real take or wannabe tank? smae for dps or healer.
if you have never done any sort of dps test how can you call yourself a dps. and if you have done a dps test and see that its under 10k, how can you call yourself a dps and que for veteran content?

You are neither a tank,healer or dps. you are just a solo player in a group dungeon without a role you can contribute to.

cyclonus11

Fake DPS

I had, as a tank, someone in my group with S&B queued as DPS. And they were using Puncture skill line and taunting away the bosses. I asked them if they wanted to take over as tank, and they apologized & said they weren't comfortable with the role yet and that they would stop using the taunt skill.

We get to the final boss, and they're still taunting the boss away. We completed the dungeon, but it took a while lol

Grandchamp1989

Fake DPS

In this game damage is king.

If there's no damage pure healer and tank can do little.

If there's no tank you can still kite and burn in many many instances.

When I tank most runs fail because the team doesn't know mechs or do atrocious damage.
When I DD i rarely fail a run

kargen27

Eedat wrote: »

Depends on the dungeon and difficulty but for the actual hard ones, not having a tank leads to people getting one shot left and right. On normal dungeons and a lot of easier vet ones I prefer fake healer over a real one lol

You mean you prefer a fake healer over an average healer. A real healer through applying buffs and all that fun stuff lets you concentrate entirely on DPS meaning even with the two DPS instead of three the run goes quicker and smoother. This assumes your DPS prowess is on par with the healers skills.

KaGaOri

Fake Tank

Haven't been in that many failed groups (maybe because I'm not doing vet DLCs yet?) but if run fails it's usually either ultimate combo of at least two people on fake role / bad at their role, or ppl repeatedly unable to do mechanics. Single fake (or bad) tank, healer or dd are usually managable in normals and low tier vets, not causing failed runs, just unpleasant ones (often more by toxic attitude than inability to do their role).

Haven't had single run to fail purely because of low dps to this day. Had been in couple where it lead to unnecessarily long runs and inability to do hard mode, though and understand that for some people dungeons aren't worth doing under those circumstances. Those couple runs that did fail (and it wasn't because failing on mechanics) were mostly vet part II dungeons with combination of fake tank or healer and bad dps.

Fun fact - had been in couple runs that looked like were about to fail because of this and after replacing fake healer or fake tank with real one, dps got miraculously up, since players stopped being dead most of the time.

Edit: typo

angrydrew

Fake is surely making little clones of other peoples builds because you cant think for yourself .At least some of the so -called fakes are original maybe you self-proclaimed Gods of ESO should look at where you got the build you use and educate the newbies a little or better still make a party outside group finder out of your little super club.

CaptainVenom

Fake Healer

RageKing wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Khajiitihaswares wrote: »

This make an interesting poll... I have tank and healer that come with me whenever I run dungeons so WE get the once in blue

moon fake dps we kick for a real one.

How do you get a "fake DPS"?

a "dps" that does less than 10k dps is a fake dps. I dont buy this "there is no fake dps only bad dps". that can be said for any role.
Would you call a tank that constantly dies and doesnt taunt a bad tank or fake tank?

if your 5k dps is just bad dps. then a tank who doesnt keep boss taunted and wears light armour is just a bad tank right?

Well, actually... if you go tank with light/medium armor, no taunts, no 1-h & Shield or Ice Staff, low Health and low resistance, you're a fake tank. If you got your setup right but can't properly taunt a boss or keep your team safe, or have bad block/bash timing, you're a bad tank, but still a tank. That's the difference.

There's no "fake dps". Doing damage is the most basic action you can/need to do in combat in order to win. So damage dealers wouldn't never be fake, only bad, average or good.

Everest_Lionheart

kargen27 wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Depends on the dungeon and difficulty but for the actual hard ones, not having a tank leads to people getting one shot left and right. On normal dungeons and a lot of easier vet ones I prefer fake healer over a real one lol

You mean you prefer a fake healer over an average healer. A real healer through applying buffs and all that fun stuff lets you concentrate entirely on DPS meaning even with the two DPS instead of three the run goes quicker and smoother. This assumes your DPS prowess is on par with the healers skills.

For me I run mostly premades in vet content. 3DD when we are doing a death run to farm some sets real quick and we don’t touch HM. If we run the trinity I do it with healers that will change sets for each boss fight sometimes to give and extra buff or more healing if there is a heal check. Healers that know their stuff can make a run go so much smoother.

I run with tanks that do the same thing, certain fights they need to go selfish and leave us DD to handle our own buffs. Often when I’m running DK dps with my buddy on tank he will ask me to slot igneous weapon and/or igneous shield to buff the group instead so he can run a different set or skill.

Premade groups have that kind of communication and synergy. Pug groups what you see is what you get. Most fake roles can get by until they hit the HM scroll and you barely notice otherwise, at least on console where we don’t have metrics to check stuff other than watching their skills and HP bar. Fake tank and heals will get exposed fast when we try the HM almost every time.

IDK that there is fake DPS though. You are either good or you aren’t. Your DPS doesn’t meet to be phenomenally high to be good. If you can get out a few skills, swap bars and generally not stand in stupid than your DPS is likely good enough to get through all but a few fights. If all you can do is spam light and heavy attacks and self heal it’s better you queue for normal dungeons. I will happily carry anyone through normal and even run the quests with you, but don’t bring that nonsense to vet.