Are fake dds a thing?

zvavi

There are a lot of discussions on the forums about fake tanks and healers, and many times they tilt towards "fake dds", and some people argue that "dd can't be fake, because any dd will deal some damage", others would argue that "dds that deal less damage than supports in 3 support sets are fake dds". what is your take on the matter?

the1andonlyskwex

Fake dds are a thing.

Fake DDs are a thing, but they're not just players that don't do much damage (so they're pretty rare).

I've seen a few so-called DDs that spend half their time casting (group) heals or who are running around with SnB as their primary weapon. Those are the fakes.

A fake isn't even trying to do the role properly. If you're trying, you're not a fake, even though you might still be bad.

Goregrinder

Fake dds are a thing.

If you can't deal more DPS than a real tank and real healer, you're a fake DD.

remosito

Fake dds are a thing.

last week in a ndlc pug had a dk dps that was using 1h/shield and chained mobs around... not sure if he double barred 1h/shield or just never bar swapped.. but never saw him with a different weapon... 😳

definitely fake dps in my book.

redspecter23

Fake dds are a thing.

It depends on the definition. Some will argue that as long as you deal some damage you aren't fake. My take is that if your damage is ridiculously low for the content you're in, you are faking, whether you are aware of it or not.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Fake dds are a thing.

How else would you call someone who queues as dd for a vet dlc dungeon and only does healing staff light attacks while running around like a headless chicken?

Agenericname

Yes, they are, but not what is being represented here IMO.

Fake implies deception, which is intent. If they intend to deceive their team mates, then yes, fake is the word. If theyre just bad but their intent sincere, then its not really deception. They're just not good at their role.

If they're doing less damage than a true support role, they're not good at their role. That much is blatantly obvious, but it doesnt mean their intent was to deceive.

fizl101

Fake dds are not a thing.

Agenericname wrote: »

Yes, they are, but not what is being represented here IMO.

Fake implies deception, which is intent. If they intend to deceive their team mates, then yes, fake is the word. If theyre just bad but their intent sincere, then its not really deception. They're just not good at their role.

If they're doing less damage than a true support role, they're not good at their role. That much is blatantly obvious, but it doesnt mean their intent was to deceive.

Agree completely. If you have a true tank or healer queued as a DD I'm pretty certain it is accidental 99% of the time.

ClawOfTheTwoMoons

Fake dds are not a thing.

No. Only bad dds.

GreenHere

Fake dds are not a thing.

Agenericname wrote: »

Yes, they are, but not what is being represented here IMO.

Fake implies deception, which is intent. If they intend to deceive their team mates, then yes, fake is the word. If theyre just bad but their intent sincere, then its not really deception. They're just not good at their role.

If they're doing less damage than a true support role, they're not good at their role. That much is blatantly obvious, but it doesnt mean their intent was to deceive.

Nailed it.

Personally I'm tired of trying to defend new/struggling/bad players to others who seemingly just don't give a crap about those folks. There are way too many veteran players ragging on DDs who don't meet their standards nowadays, though. It's thoroughly uncool, and it actively puts off newcomers to read what some of y'all think about them when they make the mistake of visiting the forums.

I play all roles, and believe me, I get it. Sub-par DDs are out there, and they're a burden; no doubt.

But just because some damage dealer is bad at dealing damage doesn't mean they should be lumped into the same pool as players that lie their way into a dungeon to cut in line with no intention whatsoever to do the job they signed up for. Those are fundamentally different things, and I'm blown away at how many people cannot or will not grasp that.

the1andonlyskwex

Fake dds are a thing.

fizl101 wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Yes, they are, but not what is being represented here IMO.

Fake implies deception, which is intent. If they intend to deceive their team mates, then yes, fake is the word. If theyre just bad but their intent sincere, then its not really deception. They're just not good at their role.

If they're doing less damage than a true support role, they're not good at their role. That much is blatantly obvious, but it doesnt mean their intent was to deceive.

Agree completely. If you have a true tank or healer queued as a DD I'm pretty certain it is accidental 99% of the time.

I do think an argument could be made that people queueing as DDs with builds that are aggressively tuned for PvP or solo play are also fakes, but in general I agree that nobody intending to do another role intentionally queues as DD (because there's no benefit to it).

Malthorne

Fake dds are a thing.

If you’ve ever played Tank or Healer in the random queue you will find that not only are fake DDs a thing, they are everywhere. I should not being doing over 50% of the dps as a support role.

I’m not complaining though, random is random. Most dungeons aren’t difficult anyway. You get what you get and then move on.

Jeremy

Fake dds are a thing.

zvavi wrote: »

There are a lot of discussions on the forums about fake tanks and healers, and many times they tilt towards "fake dds", and some people argue that "dd can't be fake, because any dd will deal some damage", others would argue that "dds that deal less damage than supports in 3 support sets are fake dds". what is your take on the matter?

The confusion comes because there is a difference in being a bad or poorly built DPS, and then someone who intentionally fakes the role of a DPS.

And there is very little incentive to fake a DPS. I've seen them, so they do exist, but they are very rare. 9 times out of 10 they are just inexperienced or misguided players who don't understand their role is to focus on doing damage. They aren't people who are intentionally faking it.

josiahva

Fake dds are a thing.

Its pretty simple:

Tank that doesn't taunt and hold aggro= Fake tank
Healer that provides little to no heals= Fake healer
DD that deals little to no damage= Fake DD

Everest_Lionheart

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

No. Only bad dds.

This ^^^^

amm7sb14_ESO

Fake dds are not a thing.

Fake DD's are not a thing.

A fake tank is a DD who queues as a tank to skip the line, but isn't actually a tank.

A fake healer is a DD who queues as a healer to skip the line, but it's actually a healer.

No tanks or healers are queue'ing as DPS.

There might be *bad* DPS, but that is not a "fake" DPS

Grandchamp1989

Fake dds are a thing.

I would say yes...

I have played with DDs who use sword n' board with 30k health and like 4-5k DPS...
I don't think they know they could've just skipped the line if they qued as Tank instead and put pierce on...

ForeverJenn

Fake dds are a thing.

Yes. They hatch from Alikir Dolmens and level their toons not actually contributing damage and getting carried to CP. Then they kite stuff thru delves to get skyshards and leave the delve full of exploited mobs no one else can attack. They show up when you've soloed a WB to 5 percent and wack it once for credit. Then they get in dungeons and contribute less than 10k dps cause they don't actually know how to play the toon they were handed by other people. Yes. The game is full of fake dps.

GreenHere

Fake dds are not a thing.

josiahva wrote: »

Its pretty simple:

Tank that doesn't taunt and hold aggro= Fake tank
Healer that provides little to no heals= Fake healer
DD that deals little to no damage= Fake DD

I wish it were that simple! But people routinely use the term "fake tank" to refer to DDs that DO slot a taunt and hold bosses still like a pro.

Just yesterday we had some random player ragging on our Tank for being 'fake'... even though they held taunt 100%, AND chained in stragglers, AND debuffed the boss with Torug's Infused Crusher enchants, AND shielded us with the DK stompy rock shields... all because they were using a fire staff on the back bar and spamming a few damage skills when they weren't busy with tanking stuff. (Tank was a guild mate of mine, so I knew their setup before Mr. Random Elite started whining.)

The whole issue is even muddier these days, because the terms are used loosely by different people who mean different things when they say the same words.

mobicera

The semantics argument is of no concern of mine.
I don't care if the label is fake, poor, trash, low or even mr. Bigelsworth the third.
The reality is I don't join pug randoms on support for the simple fact that most dd in activity finder do less damage than a pure support built tank and I am under no obligation to slog it out for 1h+ and be insulted if I dare offer any advice.
When the dungeon can be more easily and efficiently completed without stress by simply preforming the group, I will continue to choose that option.

colossalvoids

Fake dds are a thing.

In my eyes it's not a thing, but objectively some people's performance isn't even near to what is called "acceptable" in group play, meaning 4 of that kind of people are collectively unable to complete for example dungeon content designed in this game or solo arena even in normal. It's sadly a thing but there's only devs to blame luring people playing on tgm/tmg all their life because "you can do whatever you want" here, but leaving behind "but no guarantee you'll succeed" line.

WrathOfInnos

Fake dds are a thing.

GreenHere wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Yes, they are, but not what is being represented here IMO.

Fake implies deception, which is intent. If they intend to deceive their team mates, then yes, fake is the word. If theyre just bad but their intent sincere, then its not really deception. They're just not good at their role.

If they're doing less damage than a true support role, they're not good at their role. That much is blatantly obvious, but it doesnt mean their intent was to deceive.

Nailed it.

Personally I'm tired of trying to defend new/struggling/bad players to others who seemingly just don't give a crap about those folks. There are way too many veteran players ragging on DDs who don't meet their standards nowadays, though. It's thoroughly uncool, and it actively puts off newcomers to read what some of y'all think about them when they make the mistake of visiting the forums.

I play all roles, and believe me, I get it. Sub-par DDs are out there, and they're a burden; no doubt.

But just because some damage dealer is bad at dealing damage doesn't mean they should be lumped into the same pool as players that lie their way into a dungeon to cut in line with no intention whatsoever to do the job they signed up for. Those are fundamentally different things, and I'm blown away at how many people cannot or will not grasp that.

Some of us do give a crap about those folks, and criticism can be constructive. I don’t think bad DPS is intentional, but I’m also not going to call a bow light attack spammer a real DPS, or validate their decision to put zero effort into researching or learning a build. A tank with no tank skills is a fake tank, a healer with no healing skills is a fake healer. What should we call a DPS with no damage skills?

It seems like a slight double standard to evaluate them differently. Maybe tank/healer players are generally more experienced, or have at least googled to see the basics of what they should be using to fulfill their role.

I believe that anyone capable of breathing can do 20-30k DPS in this game Anything below that is a lack of knowledge, not a lack of skill. And I agree that they probably don’t even know they’re doing less damage than the average tank, so kindly informing them is beneficial. I’m not asking for randoms to be pulling 100k.

Zodiarkslayer

Fake dds are not a thing.

Honestly it is just semantics. The word "fake" implies an intention to deceive or take advantage of others. Something conscious. 🤓

I think most bad DPS do not even know that they are bad DPS.

Bad DPS are bad DPS. And will never change.

Jeremy

Fake dds are a thing.

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Yes. They hatch from Alikir Dolmens and level their toons not actually contributing damage and getting carried to CP. Then they kite stuff thru delves to get skyshards and leave the delve full of exploited mobs no one else can attack. They show up when you've soloed a WB to 5 percent and wack it once for credit. Then they get in dungeons and contribute less than 10k dps cause they don't actually know how to play the toon they were handed by other people. Yes. The game is full of fake dps.

This debate is mostly semantics.

People need to agree on a definition of what it means to "fake" a combat role before this debate can ever be constructive. Until then, people are just going to talk past one another and it's never going to end.

Does "fake DPS" mean to intentionally pretend you are a DPS when you aren't?

Or does "fake DPS" mean to be bad at doing damage?

That's what this silly debate boils down to. So until people can agree on a definition it's just going to go around in circles forever.

ForeverJenn

Fake dds are a thing.

Jeremy wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Yes. They hatch from Alikir Dolmens and level their toons not actually contributing damage and getting carried to CP. Then they kite stuff thru delves to get skyshards and leave the delve full of exploited mobs no one else can attack. They show up when you've soloed a WB to 5 percent and wack it once for credit. Then they get in dungeons and contribute less than 10k dps cause they don't actually know how to play the toon they were handed by other people. Yes. The game is full of fake dps.

This debate is mostly semantics.

People need to agree on a definition of what it means to "fake" a combat role before this debate can ever be constructive. Until then, people are just going to talk past one another and it's never going to end.

Does "fake DPS" mean to intentionally pretend you are a DPS when you aren't?

Or does "fake DPS" mean to be bad at doing damage?

That's what this silly debate boils down to. So until people can agree on a definition it's just going to go around in circles forever.

A fake tank doesn't actually tank. A fake healer doesn't actually heal. A fake damage dealer doesn't actually deal damage. Not complicated to understand here imo. DDs don't get a different definition just cause they sit in the queue longer.

Lady_Galadhiel

Fake dds are a thing.

Healers and tanks get immediately kicked from a group if they don't play as how the dd's expect them to play but when a DD only deals 7k dmg he is just bad and should be carried? No.
In vet content a dd needs to know what they are doing,same as healer and tanks.

amm7sb14_ESO

Fake dds are not a thing.

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Yes. They hatch from Alikir Dolmens and level their toons not actually contributing damage and getting carried to CP. Then they kite stuff thru delves to get skyshards and leave the delve full of exploited mobs no one else can attack. They show up when you've soloed a WB to 5 percent and wack it once for credit. Then they get in dungeons and contribute less than 10k dps cause they don't actually know how to play the toon they were handed by other people. Yes. The game is full of fake dps.

This debate is mostly semantics.

People need to agree on a definition of what it means to "fake" a combat role before this debate can ever be constructive. Until then, people are just going to talk past one another and it's never going to end.

Does "fake DPS" mean to intentionally pretend you are a DPS when you aren't?

Or does "fake DPS" mean to be bad at doing damage?

That's what this silly debate boils down to. So until people can agree on a definition it's just going to go around in circles forever.

A fake tank doesn't actually tank. A fake healer doesn't actually heal. A fake damage dealer doesn't actually deal damage. Not complicated to understand here imo. DDs don't get a different definition just cause they sit in the queue longer.

Actually, they do, because the "fake" term is because it's someone who plays one role (DPS) queue'ing as a completely different role (tank / healer), but not fulfilling the duties of the role they queue'd for, but playing as another.

Someone who tanks badly isn't called a "fake" tank if they are at least intending to play the role. They are a bad or inexperienced tank. Someone who heals poorly isn't called a "fake" healer if they are at least intending to play the role. They are a bad or inexperienced healer.

Unless someone is tanking / healing from the DPS role - which isn't happening, because no tanks or healers are going to queue in the longer DPS line - they aren't fake DPS'ing, they are just a bad / inexperienced DPS.

Jeremy

Fake dds are a thing.

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Yes. They hatch from Alikir Dolmens and level their toons not actually contributing damage and getting carried to CP. Then they kite stuff thru delves to get skyshards and leave the delve full of exploited mobs no one else can attack. They show up when you've soloed a WB to 5 percent and wack it once for credit. Then they get in dungeons and contribute less than 10k dps cause they don't actually know how to play the toon they were handed by other people. Yes. The game is full of fake dps.

This debate is mostly semantics.

People need to agree on a definition of what it means to "fake" a combat role before this debate can ever be constructive. Until then, people are just going to talk past one another and it's never going to end.

Does "fake DPS" mean to intentionally pretend you are a DPS when you aren't?

Or does "fake DPS" mean to be bad at doing damage?

That's what this silly debate boils down to. So until people can agree on a definition it's just going to go around in circles forever.

A fake tank doesn't actually tank. A fake healer doesn't actually heal. A fake damage dealer doesn't actually deal damage. Not complicated to understand here imo. DDs don't get a different definition just cause they sit in the queue longer.

It's not about giving them a different definition.

Fake tanks and fake healers is a term usually reserved for players who intentionally lie about their role so they can cut in front of others in the queue line. It's not a term typically used to describe healers and tanks who are just bad at their combat roles.

So until people can come to an agreement on a definition it's pointless to continue and a waste of time.

redlink1979

Fake dds are not a thing.

Fake - someone who is not what or who they claim to be in order to deceive others.

So, having a bad parse or no parse at all doesn't mean you're faking the role - you're just being bad at it.

Please don't call fake DD to someone who is just a bad DD.

ForeverJenn

Fake dds are a thing.

Sorry, a bad dps getting carried thru a dungeon is in fact faking their role.

Amottica

I assume by "fake DD" it is merely suggesting someone's DPS does not measure up to their standards. To which everyone will have a different standard.

I can only say that during my few months here and using the GF I have seen some damage dealers that were on the lower side of the spectrum. I have never seen such a disparity between good DPS and the lower end as I have in ESO.

I wonder why this is the case as it is not due to the skill level of the player unless somehow ESO has attacked the worst players ever. I seriously doubt that is the case.