I never realized how many fake tanks/healers there was until I started playing DD

Armanie

30 min queues to join groups with no taunt, no synergies, no buffs

Sweet

SidraWillowsky

Yep. I've given up on randoms entirely because of this BS.

Sephyr

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Yep. I've given up on randoms entirely because of this BS.

Same. I only group find on normals now for a quick dungeon in daily endeavor tasks if there's nothing else faster.

VaranisArano

The "No taunt" part is why I stopped running my DD in random. I'm sorry, but I would be doing a lot more DPS if the boss weren't running out of my AOEs at every opportunity or right up in my face so that I'm basically playing a really squishy tank.

At least with my healer, I can reliably face tank the boss and still keep everyone else up.

Roztlin45

People, in general, have NO honor anymore. Fake = liar, scammer, and dishonorable. Just so you know what you're dealing with.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

Pugging still has massive comedic value going for it; don’t be hating them lolz.

MrMazurski

cmon guys, the new week hasn't started yet to start a new topic about fake roles.

Sheezabeast

Selfish people who "just want their key or xp for random daily" are the root of the problem. They disrespect the other 3 people in the group by disregarding the value of their time, putting up with their bullcrap. Getting a random dungeon that is a dlc dungeon with a fake tank is miserable. Getting all dps on an aoe-heavy dungeon with no crowd control or buffs from heals sucks. But to people who don't care about how their actions effect others, they don't care. The system caters to lazy crap-heads.

starkerealm

MrMazurski wrote: »

cmon guys, the new week hasn't started yet to start a new topic about fake roles.

To late, fake roles.

We really need the ability to report fake tanks that result in actual bans for habitual offenders.

zelaminator

starkerealm wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

cmon guys, the new week hasn't started yet to start a new topic about fake roles.

To late, fake roles.

We really need the ability to report fake tanks that result in actual bans for habitual offenders.

Yeah.... that's never gonna get abused

starkerealm

zelaminator wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

cmon guys, the new week hasn't started yet to start a new topic about fake roles.

To late, fake roles.

We really need the ability to report fake tanks that result in actual bans for habitual offenders.

Yeah.... that's never gonna get abused

It would, but, if someone isn't applying taunts, at all, that should be pretty easy to track. (Now, the tools probably don't right now, but it is something that could be tracked on the back end.)

jircris11

Armanie wrote: »

30 min queues to join groups with no taunt, no synergies, no buffs

Sweet

Sadly ppl who want to be DD but dont want to wait in DD queue will do what ever they can to speed it up.

Grandchamp1989

Nobody seem to respect role que anyway, nobody seem to want to go with the slow traditional trinity in normals.
And after countless of threads is seem people want easier content not harder. (Yes, I see you "make overland content harder" threads).

So at this point I'm all for nerfing normal dungeons by 50% or more (dmg/HP/remove one shot mechs etc) and just let it be "story mode" 4 of any role can que up for to get their transmutes, and listen to the story if they so choose.

TheNuminous1

When I que as a DD it takes me 1-2 hours on Xbox for the que to pop.

When I que as a healer it takes 10 minutes.

I often que as a fake healer. Never a fake tank. And I always say to the group at the beginning

"Hey guys I'm a fake healer. I have experience running this dungeon and as long as we have some self sustain we will get it done quickly."

I never do this with the DLC pledges. Only base game.
I give a warning so people can either adjust or vote kick me.


But honestly. I only have 1-2 hours a day to play if that. I DONT HAVE TIME FOR A 2 HOUR QUE FOR 1 FREAKING DUNGEON.

So ya. I fake it. And I get the dungeons done. And I get em done fast. And I get my 2 keys every time.

So idk. I feel like I'm being as responsible as I can in the face of a terrible wait time that I can't afford.

TheNuminous1

Also additionally. I'll do this on my 1 healer and 5 dps characters and get 12 dungeons done in the time it would have taken me to que up for 1 or 2 as a damage dealer.

MrMazurski

starkerealm wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

cmon guys, the new week hasn't started yet to start a new topic about fake roles.

To late, fake roles.

We really need the ability to report fake tanks that result in actual bans for habitual offenders.

And what will it change? Average time. Queues for a tank / healer 1 min, DD 30 min.

DD population is too large.

If the OP means normal what changes that. They are easy enough that the tank and healer will get bored there, and the 2nd DD has to jump pretty well to get through it quickly. And everyone who does rnd knows how many people have a problem with doing at least good dps.

Vet? Fake roles are the least of the problems. There, the problem is the people themselves who should not have access to heavier instances. - here you should find friends, guilds, from zone, otherwise it's a path through torment.

I too fake role because I'm not going to wait so long for my alt only for RND. I have many cases where my character who doesn't have some endgame setup does 50-60% team dps as a fake healer? I might as well accuse DD of a fake DD role in this case.

A simple solution before you go on to devise some kind of restriction, banning system etc.

Find a few people you will enjoy playing with. I don't know in person "hey dude, you've been fun doing dungeon lately, would you like to do a few rnds sometimes" Simple, you have to start somewhere instead of turning the game system over. ESO is designed in such a way that you can go through a dungeon even in 4 DD. And let it stay that way.

GodsGrief

because roles mean nothing these days. Everyone can tank while healing whilst also doing decent/high damage.

DtOG

Maybe new 4 man dps dungeons would fix this. I mean if the que’s so long because the dd populations so high maybe make content driven towards that with the same rewards, exp and keys etc.

Sarannah

ZOS should enforce roles.

PS: I was going to reply about how terrible fake roles are, but there have been enough posts about that in the past. Including from me.
PPS: Don't be selfish, please!

UntilValhalla13

Don't forget about queuing in as an actual support role and having to deal with fake dps as well.

CaffeinatedMayhem

So let's look at why no one want to "real" tank:

1 - Tanking in ESO is NOT just "apply AoE taunt and block" You need to know mechanics, prioritization, etc. Multiple guild/weapons/armor passives. Many "common" dungeon strategies are not obvious and require a new player to be TAUGHT how to do them.
2 - Tanking requires a LOT of gear. No, you don't need it for normals, but many players don't ever want to tank because of the sheer amount of gear we're required/expected to have available.
3 - Bugs. Taunt being wonky, attacks going through block, having to be TAUGHT mechanics, many bosses have weird telegraphs, especially in the base game dungeons. Some of this is being fixed in U31 *KNOCK ON WOOD* (hi mods if your're unfamiliar with this phrase it's like "fingers crossed')

For random normals it's fine if the "tank" has a taunt and can kite in a tight circle or just not die. This ofc, fails in most DLC dungeons, even on normal.

However, most of the endgame tanking community might argue that if you made tanking too easy, they'd quit.

So, what's the answer? Even if ZOS did institute some kind of gatekeeping on finder (which for the record I do NOT support) it's not going to be easier to find a tank. The few tanks in ESO generally avoid pugs because of bad behavior and abuse by rude DPS, and fake healers (in vets where we need the support).

There has to be some way to make tanking more appealing, but not make it "AoE taunt meatbag" easy.

Pevey

It’s totally possible to tank a normal dungeon (even DLC) in dps gear. Just SLOT A TAUNT. And use it. Know when to block. Stand still. Don’t kite anything. You can do all your dps rotation, minus a few GCDs here and there for inner beast and blocking. In fact, ~25k health tank built mostly for Dps has a huge advantage in a normal dungeon because of the deep stam or mag pool. Extra health is not necessary. Can do this with 3 other DD and no healer if you run pale order. Dps who think they are hot stuff going into a dungeon better be hot enough to actually tank and dps at the same time. Totally doable, and the change to inner beast next time will be my favorite combat change in a while.

starkerealm

To expand on this:

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

2 - Tanking requires a LOT of gear. No, you don't need it for normals, but many players don't ever want to tank because of the sheer amount of gear we're required/expected to have available.

This is both true, and very thankless. Some of that gear is very micro intensive (such as Alkosh), but, you'll end up in a group that doesn't support the set's conditions, effectively tanking the set. In other cases (such as PA), you simply have to be very on the ball for the set to work, and you're doing that for people who don't understand you're buffing them... leading to:

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

3 - Bugs. Taunt being wonky, attacks going through block, having to be TAUGHT mechanics, many bosses have weird telegraphs, especially in the base game dungeons. Some of this is being fixed in U31 *KNOCK ON WOOD* (hi mods if your're unfamiliar with this phrase it's like "fingers crossed')

This is mostly true, but it's a little more complex, because a number of bosses (especially non-DLC ones) have attacks that are coded to ignore taunt. So, the boss will whip around and tag one of the DPS. With potatoes, this can sometimes one shot them if they're standing in stupid and not blocking.

Meaning, it's quite possible that the tank is already running a demanding setup, only for the DPS to start throwing a tantrum because the Tank isn't doing the impossible.

spartaxoxo

This is why I mostly fake tank with a taunt now. If you try to be a real dps, you get a bunch of fakes that won't taunt or heal. And they aren't even good. If you try to tank, you get a bunch of 5k fakes that "don't understand" basic concepts like you should push buttons to do damage.

The queue experience is awful unless you take matters into your own hands and fake it yourself.

kmcaj

After running dungeons so many times pugs are really only thing that can make things interesting.

BlueRaven

Zos keeps nerfing tank dps so they are basically frustrating to play outside of dungeons. And then when tanks complain on the forums, we get replies of “just carry extra gear” to do overland.

The message is clear, don’t play a tank.

And then players wonder why queues take so long.

I had several types of tanks at one time, because I was curious how their gameplay changed from class to class. Now I just have two, and one of those is just an “RP” tank. Level 50 and maybe seeing two dungeons the whole time.
The other I only use only upon request. I don’t think I have even assigned his champion points yet when cp 2.0 dropped. That is how often I use him.

QOL is very poor for tanks, make it better and the game will see more tanks. More tanks, shorter waits for everyone else.

Urvoth

I never realized how many fake DDs there are until I started playing tank/healer

starkerealm

BlueRaven wrote: »

Zos keeps nerfing tank dps so they are basically frustrating to play outside of dungeons. And then when tanks complain on the forums, we get replies of “just carry extra gear” to do overland.

The message is clear, don’t play a tank.

And then players wonder why queues take so long.

I had several types of tanks at one time, because I was curious how their gameplay changed from class to class. Now I just have two, and one of those is just an “RP” tank. Level 50 and maybe seeing two dungeons the whole time.
The other I only use only upon request. I don’t think I have even assigned his champion points yet when cp 2.0 dropped. That is how often I use him.

QOL is very poor for tanks, make it better and the game will see more tanks. More tanks, shorter waits for everyone else.

Not just nerfing tank DPS. They outright nerf tanks left and right. Ironically, the CP2.0 changes are an improvement for tank DPS overall, but, overland is still pretty miserable, but it's not as bad as it was. That doesn't change the fact that tanks, and survival, get nerfed because they're overperforming in PvP on a semi-regular basis. It never, technically, dips so low that vet content is impossible, but tanking is easily the most difficult role to learn or play.

ixthUA

In my recent 6 months i havent met a single fake healer. Saw a lot of fake tanks until i switched to veteran dungeons. Have seen fake DDs (newbies with tank build queued as dps), but that only occured in normal dungeons.
IMO normal dungeons should just remove role requirements.

starkerealm

ixthUA wrote: »

In my recent 6 months i havent met a single fake healer. Saw a lot of fake tanks until i switched to veteran dungeons. Have seen fake DDs (newbies with tank build queued as dps), but that only occured in normal dungeons.
IMO normal dungeons should just remove role requirements.

If you're the tank, fake healers are very easy to spot. Now, I get when you've got someone (particularly lower level) who's just casting Breath of Life or 'Shrooms when they see someone getting low. They're not doing their job, but they don't know that.

That said, yeah, fake healers aren't exceptionally common, and as I've said in previous posts (though, not in this thread) if you're fake healing on a Templar, but still throwing shards and balls, nobody's going to care because you are, in fact, doing your job.

Amottica

starkerealm wrote: »

MrMazurski wrote: »

cmon guys, the new week hasn't started yet to start a new topic about fake roles.

To late, fake roles.

We really need the ability to report fake tanks that result in actual bans for habitual offenders.

Tanks in my guild say the problem is not "fake tanks" but that the real tanks avoid using the GF due to the quality of group they would get to often. I have only been around for a few months but I have seen some groups where I queued as a healer and was out dpsing the group while also healing and sending out orbs. This was starting when I still had fairly low CP.