Will you use group dungeon finder if the daily rewards are moved to "clear any dungeon in any way?"

XellJarmar

Just out of curiosity.

So long people have been complaining about fake tanks, fake dps, fake healers, or rushing veterans leaving newcomers behind, soloing the dungeons. For the fake role guys, I've seen people jump onto the group queue as fake roles because queueing takes forever as specific role. The rushing veterans, I feel their fatigue, because they've been running the same random normal dungeons over and over and just want to end up with them quickly. But it is certain that the rushing through the dungeon, skipping everything can ruin the newcomers or questers' experience. Worse, I've seen one day, in Wayrest Sewer 2, the whole instance was bugged after beating Malubeth because we burnt the boss too fast even before the npc reached the site. We couldn't proceed past the corridor, so the group disbanded. Later it was found to be tied to quest script.

Long story short, it seems that the problems are pretty much related to the way of acquiring the daily rewards; you have to queue random dungeon group finder to earn the daily rewards, which is MANDATORY. So what if the daily rewards are moved to the first clear of any dungeon in any way? In other words, what if you can earn your rewards even by walking into any dungeon you want, and soloing it? Will you be using random dungeon group finder even with this kind of change? Let me hear what you think.

VaranisArano

I think the Undaunted Event is a good case study. When it first started up in 2017, you had to use the Groupfinder to do Random Dungeons for rewards. In 2019, it switched to just killing the final boss of any group dungeon to get the rewards, without the requirement to use the Groupfinder or have it be a Random Dungeon.

I'd be curious to see what ZOS' data says about how the playerbase's engagement with the event changed from then until now.


However, we actually have a better case study. Thanks to a bug with the Daily Random Dungeon where you could get the rewards by traveling to a different dungeon than the random one you'd gotten, we do know exactly what many players would do.

They run Normal Fungal Grotto 1.

Given that one of the purposes of the Groupfinder is to backfill specific dungeon groups with members or replacements from the Random queue, I doubt that ZOS wants to recreate the situation whereby players just run Normal Fungal Grotto 1.

Dagoth_Rac

Yes, I'll use random dungeon group finder regardless.

The transmutes and XP are your reward for helping other players. Most players cannot solo a dungeon on any difficulty. Many players want to farm gear from a specific dungeon. Or want the skill point for first completion. If everyone starts soloing FG1 for their transmute and XP, it will empty out the group finder and the people who really need group mates will not get them.

Basically, stop treating the transmutes and XP as something players are entitled to. And treat them truly as a reward for helping other players.

I may have answered this wrong. I mean that I would continue to use Group Finder because I think, despite some warts, the Group Finder is good for the game and good for the community. And giving people an excuse to bypass it will hurt more players than it helps.

RaptorRodeoGod

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

I'd probably rotate between soloing my favorite dungeons on normal/vet depending on what I feel like doing

DreamyLu

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

No matter what, I go into dungeons with friends only.

thorwyn

he transmutes and XP are your reward for helping other players. Most players cannot solo a dungeon on any difficulty. Many players want to farm gear from a specific dungeon. Or want the skill point for first completion. If everyone starts soloing FG1 for their transmute and XP

Helping new players getting through a dungeon might be the idea behind the transmute crystal feature, but the idea is flawed. Rushing through a dungeon does not help other players. As OP has stated, it sometimes destroys the gaming experience for new players, so it does more harm than good. OP's suggestion does at least counter that problem to a certain extend, because those people who just want their 10 transmute crystals would just solo a low tierl dungeon and leave the questing people alone. I know I would (although I'm never rushing a random normal). So yes, separating these groups of players is a good idea, because that is a huge source of conflict and frustration on both sides.
The suggested solution is not perfect though. Transmute crystals is just one reason for experienced players playing a dungeon. Farming certain sets is another one and if you do that, rushing a dungeon is even more tempting because it might be the 10th time in a row you're running that dungeon and you just want to be done with it.

spartaxoxo

Yes, I'll use random dungeon group finder regardless.

I'd use it regardless, but significantly less often. They are paying me to help folks, so I do. If they stop paying me for that, I will help wayyyy less. I'm always gonna do whatever is easiest way to get what I want when it comes to grinding out this currency or the other. When I'm trying to get a specific reward, I'm not necessarily there for fun. I'm there for the loot. It's nice when that aligns with helping another player, but I'm not there for that purpose. I'm helping because I was paid too, not because I was in a helpful mood.

M0ntie

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

I might use it although I voted No. I’d usually combine doing one dungeon with the undaunted dailies.

Dawnblade

LOL you want to let vet players get rewarded for soloing FG1? No thanks.

What I'd much rather see are the consolidation of dungeon rewards in the daily random group finder (XP, undaunted rep, keys, transmutes), with either some sort of tuning pass to normalize dungeons for time / difficulty across legacy and DLC, or separate queues for normal and DLC / vet normal and DLC.

redspecter23

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

In the example listed, I'd just walk into a fast dungeon and clear it solo for the rewards. I suspect that ZOS wouldn't implement it quite that way though as it would be thought of as a bit too easy to get those rewards. There are still perfectly legit ways to essentially accomplish this on live right now anyway.

ZOS would need to decide if it's better to keep the queue all together with many mixed playstyles or essentially separate many of those that would solo off on to their own. The queue would be less full, but arguably those that are still in there would probably form slightly more like minded groups more often.

An interesting medium proposal might be to allow groups to queue into a random dungeon for the daily with their current group (without adding any random players from the queue). That maintains the random element, but removes the need to play with random players, potentially zerging in groups that wouldn't really appreciate that.

XellJarmar

Hey, thank you for spending your precious time to respond, and giving opinions about dungeon queue and the group play overall. As disclaimed at the head of the post, this poll was not meant to say "ZOS please implement this feature!" but "just out of curiosity" regarding your feeling about dungeon queue and the group play in your daily routine. I'm also one of the guys who love delving into dungeons with different people, and I cherish exciting experiences coming with it. Please consider the example and the poll as "what if at its extreme." Feel sorry if someone felt it offensive and inappropriate.

phaneub17_ESO

It really sucked when you queue for a specific dungeon and the random group coming in decides "let's all jump into Fungal Grotto for easy completion" screwing you out of the whole reason you queued for THAT specified dungeon in the first place. I want to avoid going back to that.

FluffWit

Nah, I don't bother with dungeon daily endeavors. Even a fungal Grotto 1 speed run isn't worth it to me for 15 seals.

Like everything it's time vs reward and it doesn't quite cut it for me.

Today I was only on for 45 minutes and I still did harvest 8 ore nodes- took 1 minute (surveys were piling up anyway), kill 10 humanoid deadra- 2 minutes in a public dungeon, and kill 10 animals- 20 seconds of murdering sheep.

An idea would be to have the rewards stack based on number of days completed. It's how Rockstar does it, gives you a bit more motivation to bother doing them and a bit more motivation to bother logging in.

endgamesmug

Yes, I'll use random dungeon group finder regardless.

I would love to only have my random normal as dlc's, i enjoy them and I would enjoy them the most with 3 other dps ideally.I have no interest in base dungeons and it always feels rotten getting thrown in with brand new players. Which inevitably results in me being kicked for killing everything i come across like a mob grind, because ive done it a trillion times.

Jimboo84

Yes, I'll use random dungeon group finder regardless.

XellJarmar wrote: »

Just out of curiosity.

So long people have been complaining about fake tanks, fake dps, fake healers, or rushing veterans leaving newcomers behind, soloing the dungeons. For the fake role guys, I've seen people jump onto the group queue as fake roles because queueing takes forever as specific role. The rushing veterans, I feel their fatigue, because they've been running the same random normal dungeons over and over and just want to end up with them quickly. But it is certain that the rushing through the dungeon, skipping everything can ruin the newcomers or questers' experience. Worse, I've seen one day, in Wayrest Sewer 2, the whole instance was bugged after beating Malubeth because we burnt the boss too fast even before the npc reached the site. We couldn't proceed past the corridor, so the group disbanded. Later it was found to be tied to quest script.

Long story short, it seems that the problems are pretty much related to the way of acquiring the daily rewards; you have to queue random dungeon group finder to earn the daily rewards, which is MANDATORY. So what if the daily rewards are moved to the first clear of any dungeon in any way? In other words, what if you can earn your rewards even by walking into any dungeon you want, and soloing it? Will you be using random dungeon group finder even with this kind of change? Let me hear what you think.

I always use the dungeon finder. It's easy, quick and you meet new people.

AvalonRanger

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

Of course, I don't want to use grouping tools anymore.
Just go easy dungeon for my build and "I finished them off by solo- give me reward"

Or, If I can get same reward at public dungeon,
maybe, I don't use grouping tools only for daily.

colossalvoids

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

Quite a strange one, those rewards are made for people to hop and help others, not as a "login and smash couple buttons" reward. If it would go, it would just "poof" instead of going to some other way of obtaining it.

I'm not doing it already and nothing would change for me.

FluffWit

colossalvoids wrote: »

Quite a strange one, those rewards are made for people to hop and help others, not as a "login and smash couple buttons" reward. If it would go, it would just "poof" instead of going to some other way of obtaining it.

I'm not doing it already and nothing would change for me.

The rewards weren't made to be a social thing. They were added because Microsoft forced them to after they took over- they won't let their titles include loot box stuff that cant be acquired through normal game play and this is what they came up with.

I like it, I'll never buy a loot box and it let's me get the odd little thing from time to time.

AvalonRanger

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

95% people of PUG mate by grouping tools is just farmer.
Not people of pure exploring. They usually skip secret boss or
buff item.

If it's just for 5 transmute stone, then please make more casual quest for it.
VERY PLEASE. Or give us 5 transmute stone or 1 gold material for dragon hunt
and Skyrim and SummerSet or High Isle Dolman daily, instead of stupid junk.

colossalvoids

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

FluffWit wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Quite a strange one, those rewards are made for people to hop and help others, not as a "login and smash couple buttons" reward. If it would go, it would just "poof" instead of going to some other way of obtaining it.

I'm not doing it already and nothing would change for me.

The rewards weren't made to be a social thing. They were added because Microsoft forced them to after they took over- they won't let their titles include loot box stuff that cant be acquired through normal game play and this is what they came up with.

I like it, I'll never buy a loot box and it let's me get the odd little thing from time to time.

Aren't the talk about dungeon transmutation stones/xp lol? Those are precisely to make people help each other instead of just get "their" stuff.

Troodon80

Yes, I'll use random dungeon group finder regardless.

FluffWit wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Quite a strange one, those rewards are made for people to hop and help others, not as a "login and smash couple buttons" reward. If it would go, it would just "poof" instead of going to some other way of obtaining it.

I'm not doing it already and nothing would change for me.

The rewards weren't made to be a social thing. They were added because Microsoft forced them to after they took over- they won't let their titles include loot box stuff that cant be acquired through normal game play and this is what they came up with.

I like it, I'll never buy a loot box and it let's me get the odd little thing from time to time.

I'm not sure you quite understand Microsoft's sphere of influence here. The discussion isn't about lootboxes. It's about the daily dungeon rewards, transmutation geode and experience, which lootboxes contain neither of (presumably to not be accused of P2W).

Transmutation and the associated daily dungeon rewards got added to the game in 2017. Microsoft acquired Zenimax in 2021. I doubt Microsoft had, at the time, any sway over ZOS's decision to add transmutation geodes to the daily random dungeon/group finder.

While they might not be a social thing, specifically, they were intended as a reward for helping other players; much in the same way that other games do rewards for daily roulettes, duties, etc. to keep players doing the content.

As for the topic, I'll still keep using it.

Oznog666

Yes, I'll use random dungeon group finder regardless.

Dawnblade wrote: »

LOL you want to let vet players get rewarded for soloing FG1? No thanks.

Exactly this was the first thought I had when I saw the topic. And whenever you would like to do a specific dungeon nobody will join you anymore. Very bad idea......

Danikat

I think what would be more useful is a way for players to choose which type of group, or even which specific group, they get put into.

So people who want to do the quest can specifically group up with 3 other people who want to do the quest and know they'll be able to take their time with it because everyone else will be doing the same thing. Meanwhile people who just want to run any quick dungeon for the daily rewards can do that, and there's no risk of the two types of players getting mixed together and frustrating each other.

Yes it might mean longer queues for some people, but personally I'd prefer to wait longer for a group to form knowing that when it does I'll actually be able to play the quest rather than hoping I might just have time to click through the dialogue without reading it and then run to the boss in time to get credit before I'm kicked out.

The ideal IMO would be a system like some other MMOs have where players use the group finder to advertise their group with a short message about what they're doing and who they want to join and then other players can choose one of the available group or start their own. But a compromise might be a second set of buttons or check boxes with common options like 'quest' 'fast clear' 'any' etc. and options for whether you want a tank, healer and 2 DDs or would accept any combination of players.

FantasticFreddie

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

I'd like to see a "story mode" for dungeons, that awarded the skill point and was made to be soloed, with weak af enemies.
This would not award bonus XP or transmutes

I would also like to see vet rewards ramped up significantly-- give a 50 crystal geode for doing a random vet vrs the 10 from a random normal.
A vocal problem is people speed running dungeons and spoiling it for people who are new.
A story mode for people who just want to see the quest and get the skill point
Normal dungeons for people who want bonus xp and a slow and steady way to farm crystals
Vet dungeons for people who want to farm purple gear, and crystals

FeedbackOnly

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think the Undaunted Event is a good case study. When it first started up in 2017, you had to use the Groupfinder to do Random Dungeons for rewards. In 2019, it switched to just killing the final boss of any group dungeon to get the rewards, without the requirement to use the Groupfinder or have it be a Random Dungeon.

I'd be curious to see what ZOS' data says about how the playerbase's engagement with the event changed from then until now.


However, we actually have a better case study. Thanks to a bug with the Daily Random Dungeon where you could get the rewards by traveling to a different dungeon than the random one you'd gotten, we do know exactly what many players would do.

They run Normal Fungal Grotto 1.

Given that one of the purposes of the Groupfinder is to backfill specific dungeon groups with members or replacements from the Random queue, I doubt that ZOS wants to recreate the situation whereby players just run Normal Fungal Grotto 1.

Some of especially tank would show up as dungeon already started. It was a balance act for them

bmnoble

It's suppose to be a reward for taking the time to help someone out with their dungeon.

If they changed it so you could solo any dungeon to get those rewards, as selfish as it is, I would just take as many characters as I feel like running through one of the starter dungeons and ignore the random group finder for the most part, doubt I would be the only one, it would empty the queues of a lot of players defeating the purpose of those incentives.

In the short term it might benefit me on a personal level but in the long term it would also screw me over when I want to farm gear from a specific dungeon later down the track.

Honestly I would rather they just move the transmute rewards away from the daily random over to the daily undaunted pledges instead.

Something along the lines of first daily pledge you complete on a character gives you the 10 transmute stones instead of them coming from the first daily random, that way if there is a pledge dungeon you enjoy you can run all your characters through that dungeon that day without any of the hoping you get an easy dungeon instead you know what your getting yourself into, that would cut down on the number of people bailing on a dlc dungeon they didn't want to do.

captainwolfos

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

If it can't be done solo, I'm not doing it at all.

redlink1979

Yes, I'll use random dungeon group finder regardless.

It won't change because...

VaranisArano wrote: »

(...) I doubt that ZOS wants to recreate the situation whereby players just run Normal Fungal Grotto 1.

chessalavakia_ESO

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

I would lean towards no.

I don't like some of the dungeons so I'd deselect them even if I didn't intend to do a specific dungeon.

I think the weapon farming groups would still leave runs filled with fakes and rushers so the quality of the experience from the change would not improve that much.

Additionally, many of the transmute farmers that plan ahead use Cyrodiil over Random Dungeons.

Marillea

No, I won't be using random dungeon group finder.

I already barely use it due to guild mates, thankfully. Whoever doesn't have a guild, is currently using the finder or going solo, and they'll continue to do so no matter what.
Players in guilds will keep on doing them with guildies.
Players who aren't capable of going solo, and have no guild, will keep on using the finder.

Nothing much would change imo. But I can see this turning easily into "LF Fungal Grotto I group, ez daily" every single day, because why would I do Moon Hunter Keep or Maarselok instead?

barney2525

If it's ' Clear any dungeon in any way ' - why would anyone use the Group finder?

Most who DO dungeons are set up pretty strong, and can solo at least Some of them.

So you would choose one you are good at and do it first thing every day.

No group needed.