The hands down, undeniably absolute best solution to fake tanking

tauriel01

If you find yourself in a group with a fake tank and you do not like how the group is going, there is ALREADY a feature in the game that will absolutely solve this problem for you. Just hit P to bring up the group window. hit X, then hit E. Your problem is immediately solved. That fake tank won't be harshing your mellow anymore. Yes, you might have waited several minutes to get that group. Yes you might have to wait even longer to do it again. Life is full of choices. you can choose to stay and live with the fake tank. You can choose to leave and live with lost time. What you CAN'T do is control others' behavior. I'm not entirely sure why a segment of the forum population keeps trying to come up with ways to do so. Rather than clutter the interwebs with "solutions" to the "problem" of fake tanks, just opt out when one appears.

Sidereum

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

meneerpeer

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Start tanking yourself, you won't have any problems then. There problem solved.

Sidereum

meneerpeer wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Start tanking yourself, you won't have any problems then. There problem solved.

I'm a tank main.

tauriel01

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Yes, just opt out. Consider it a "feature" of the PUG. PUGs are like a box of chocolates... where a bunch of them are actually little rabbit turds.

redspecter23

I would consider a vote kick attempt first if I were in a situation where I might consider leaving anyway. It depends on the situation.

The point is still a good one though. The power has always been in the hands of the individual for what they put up with. You might not like any given group, but you do always have the option to leave if you want to.

Sidereum

tauriel01 wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Yes, just opt out. Consider it a "feature" of the PUG. PUGs are like a box of chocolates... where a bunch of them are actually little rabbit turds.

What I meant is that fake tanking must be solved, but it sounds a bit unfair that we have to leave the group each time we see one in a dungeon. Either we establish as a non-official conventional rule in the community that we kick fake tanks on sight or ZoS steps in and adds a feature that somehow prevents this from happening.

ResidentContrarian

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Well, it's only a problem if you let it be.

Makes little to no difference in reality for many players, which is why players continue to do it in the finder.

Personally, I don't really care as most of the game is a DPS race and I can always tank on any character I play with a simple gear swap if it really mattered that much.

Sidereum

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Well, it's only a problem if you let it be.

Makes little to no difference in reality for many players, which is why players continue to do it in the finder.

Personally, I don't really care as most of the game is a DPS race and I can always tank on any character I play with a simple gear swap if it really mattered that much.

So you believe fake tanking is not an issue? And that most people feel the same? It seems to not be the case on these forums.

meneerpeer

Sidereum wrote: »

tauriel01 wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Yes, just opt out. Consider it a "feature" of the PUG. PUGs are like a box of chocolates... where a bunch of them are actually little rabbit turds.

What I meant is that fake tanking must be solved, but it sounds a bit unfair that we have to leave the group each time we see one in a dungeon. Either we establish as a non-official conventional rule in the community that we kick fake tanks on sight or ZoS steps in and adds a feature that somehow prevents this from happening.

Did you try and get a replacement lately if someone did happen to leave your group recently? It has been broken since U31 to get replacements in a dungeon :') So the only thing you'd accomplish is to be 1 player down for the rest of the dungeon...

OnThaLoose

I don't even mind getting a fake tank if it's a random normal since it doesn't really matter.

However, that said, what boggles the mind is when fake tanks queue for a vet. I think to myself: "If you're trying to get the random done asap, which I imagine is usually why you 'fake tank' to begin with, why the heck are you queuing for a vet?!??!"

Agenericname

meneerpeer wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

tauriel01 wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Yes, just opt out. Consider it a "feature" of the PUG. PUGs are like a box of chocolates... where a bunch of them are actually little rabbit turds.

What I meant is that fake tanking must be solved, but it sounds a bit unfair that we have to leave the group each time we see one in a dungeon. Either we establish as a non-official conventional rule in the community that we kick fake tanks on sight or ZoS steps in and adds a feature that somehow prevents this from happening.

Did you try and get a replacement lately if someone did happen to leave your group recently? It has been broken since U31 to get replacements in a dungeon :') So the only thing you'd accomplish is to be 1 player down for the rest of the dungeon...

We have, and we did get one.

I did my random vet the other day and a blue portal to Frostvault last boss. So that group also got one.

It does seem inconsistent, but not complety broken. Maybe like, 65% broken.

Akali

tauriel01 wrote: »

If you find yourself in a group with a fake tank and you do not like how the group is going, there is ALREADY a feature in the game that will absolutely solve this problem for you. Just hit P to bring up the group window. hit X, then hit E. Your problem is immediately solved. That fake tank won't be harshing your mellow anymore. Yes, you might have waited several minutes to get that group. Yes you might have to wait even longer to do it again. Life is full of choices. you can choose to stay and live with the fake tank. You can choose to leave and live with lost time. What you CAN'T do is control others' behavior. I'm not entirely sure why a segment of the forum population keeps trying to come up with ways to do so. Rather than clutter the interwebs with "solutions" to the "problem" of fake tanks, just opt out when one appears.

What an absolute loads of tosh

ResidentContrarian

Sidereum wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Well, it's only a problem if you let it be.

Makes little to no difference in reality for many players, which is why players continue to do it in the finder.

Personally, I don't really care as most of the game is a DPS race and I can always tank on any character I play with a simple gear swap if it really mattered that much.

So you believe fake tanking is not an issue? And that most people feel the same? It seems to not be the case on these forums.

What most people feel is their issue, not mine. The forums are full of contradiction and usually full of nonsense contrary to reality.

Reality isn't built on feelings, but either logical conclusions or end results.

Fact of the matter is, a fake tank is no more detrimental than a bad one to a group, or could in fact, be better because DPS is the only thing that matters in PvE.

Literal design of the game. DPS, DPS, DPS -- and it has a negative effect on tanks and healers because the role is useless besides being an inferior DPS and/or buff bot in a large majority of the content. It's also why damage dealers fill the queue.

If fake tanking was such an issue, ask how and why they are so prevalent.

If it were such an issue, the fake tanks would be kicked every single party and eventually quit doing it -- but they don't because fake tanking is effective and they get the end results they want. It's likely no one really cares at the end of the day in the game once the dungeon is complete and they get achievements or whatever the heck they wanted, besides players on the forums complaining about fake tanks!

For the issue to actually resolve, the game needs to be more than a DPS race, and tanks more than buff bots.

Too bad the game is going in the opposite direction of that with every content release. We have a mythic that trivializes group play for "accessibility" to solve the problem of DPS race that is "inaccessible", despite it being something ZOS themselves created in the first place. Tanks will only lose more relevance as the patches go on, and fake tanking will only become more prevalent because the game only cares about DPS at the end of the day, and nothing else really matters.

Pointing to some trials that most don't even do, doesn't matter. Pointing to a vet dungeon that can be duoed, but most players can't doesn't matter. etc. - all targets for successful fake tanking, and it does in fact get cleared successfully increasing how prevalent fake tanking is and will become, despite what anyone says on the forums.

Also, if a group wiped because of a fake tank, highly doubt a real one would matter -- unless that tank was god-tier, which most tanks are simply not. That tank would actually be cl

allmyxlvntx

Even better than leaving is making it to last boss… especially on a random… and kicking the fake tank… then inviting a real tank in to finish of the boss…. Opportunities like this do not exist all the time but when they do… LOL do it.

CBixby

If there wasn’t so many fake dps there wouldn’t be so many fake tanks. Everyone mad at fake tanks is legit exposing themselves

Granamere

My solution is add the fake tank/healer to your ignore list. I believe that you will then not be grouped with them ever again. This is part of the reason I normally only do content with friends or guild mates.

buttaface

Akali wrote: »

What an absolute loads of tosh

Yep. Shifting the penalty to those not responsible A++ plan.

Maybe cops should start mailing out traffic tickets to those not responsible for those too who happened to be in the vicinity of violators at the time. I mean -someone- should pay and the city has to get revenue somewhere!

tauriel01

Sidereum wrote: »

tauriel01 wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Yes, just opt out. Consider it a "feature" of the PUG. PUGs are like a box of chocolates... where a bunch of them are actually little rabbit turds.

What I meant is that fake tanking must be solved, but it sounds a bit unfair that we have to leave the group each time we see one in a dungeon. Either we establish as a non-official conventional rule in the community that we kick fake tanks on sight or ZoS steps in and adds a feature that somehow prevents this from happening.

Why does fake tanking have to be solved? Why do you believe you can inflict your preferences for play style on other people? I mean, if you pay their sub then I suppose you have the right. But otherwise, why is YOUR opinion the "right" one and the fake tanks are "wrong"? I actually prefer fake tanks--as long as they aren't also fake dps--cause it makes the faceroll dungeon go faster.

I think the only "problem" we have is that people want to have the game run "their way" and anything that doesn't fit into that concept is "wrong."

tauriel01

Akali wrote: »

tauriel01 wrote: »

If you find yourself in a group with a fake tank and you do not like how the group is going, there is ALREADY a feature in the game that will absolutely solve this problem for you. Just hit P to bring up the group window. hit X, then hit E. Your problem is immediately solved. That fake tank won't be harshing your mellow anymore. Yes, you might have waited several minutes to get that group. Yes you might have to wait even longer to do it again. Life is full of choices. you can choose to stay and live with the fake tank. You can choose to leave and live with lost time. What you CAN'T do is control others' behavior. I'm not entirely sure why a segment of the forum population keeps trying to come up with ways to do so. Rather than clutter the interwebs with "solutions" to the "problem" of fake tanks, just opt out when one appears.

What an absolute loads of tosh

lolololololololol

tauriel01

buttaface wrote: »

Akali wrote: »

What an absolute loads of tosh

Yep. Shifting the penalty to those not responsible A++ plan.

Maybe cops should start mailing out traffic tickets to those not responsible for those too who happened to be in the vicinity of violators at the time. I mean -someone- should pay and the city has to get revenue somewhere!

It's only a problem because you THINK it's a problem. You want to bring RL examples into the discussion... how about this one? There are rude people everywhere in your every day life. Someone cuts you off on the freeway. What do you do? I'm pretty sure you don't sit around trying to come up with a reputation system that we can all vote on and if that driver gets too many thumbs down they are kicked off the road for an indeterminate period of time. Well, I assume you aren't doing this. Maybe you are. Point is, you probably cuss at the guy and then avoid driving near him for the remainder of your trip. At least, this is what most normal people would do. You can't change how other people are going to play the game they paid to play. If it is that problematic for you, don't engage with that person. Or maybe play standalone games.

fiender66

Sidereum wrote: »

meneerpeer wrote: »

Sidereum wrote: »

So... the suggestion is that we have to put ourselves in a disadvantageous position to solve the problem despite the fact that we are not responsible for said problem?

Besides, even if we did opt out each time we find a fake tank, we'd be doing that like 3-4 times in a row until we find a regular group.

Start tanking yourself, you won't have any problems then. There problem solved.

I'm a tank main.

Then, @Sidereum you never meet a fake tank (oh well, maybe you use your dps alts sometimes, then fake tanks may surface)

yurimodin

The easiest solution would be for ZOS to (without telling anyone) put people who queue as tanks on endless wait for group if they don't have a taunt slotted on either bar.

Bat

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

*...* a fake tank is no more detrimental than a bad one to a group *...*

*...*Literal design of the game. DPS, DPS, DPS -- and it has a negative effect on tanks and healers because the role is useless*...*

*...*Too bad the game is going in the opposite direction of that with every content release.*...* Tanks will only lose more relevance as the patches go on, and fake tanking will only become more prevalent because the game only cares about DPS at the end of the day, and nothing else really matters.*...*

*...*Also, if a group wiped because of a fake tank, highly doubt a real one would matter -- unless that tank was god-tier, which most tanks are simply not.*...*

This is either absolute nonsense, or you don't understand what "the Problem with fake tanks" means.

If you group with friends who you trust would all know mechanics and to be good enough players that they can survive the content without a tank = not a problem.

If you queue as a fake tank with random people = problem, because in doing so you have either overestimated your own proficiency (not too uncommon from what I've seen with this sort of behaviour), or, you have unreasonable expectations of the entirely random people you get grouped with. Some players don't have that proficiency that they will pull through a dungeon without a tank properly turning and facing a boss away from the group. Some players aren't aware that if the "tank" dies, and they have been chosen as targets instead, they should kite and allow other members to res the "tank", so they go for the tank res and die themselves, which dominoes to an entire wipe; some people aren't aware that if someone is kiting the boss while the "tank" is dead, they should quickly go to the "tank" and res them; bosses sometimes need to be interrupted - mechanic which is often handled by the tank themselves - and it causes a wipe if tank lies dead like a fish out of water; a "tank" who can't survive what a tank would survive easily but instead runs around the entire board pulling the boss out of everyone else's AOEs and DOTs will cause the run to take multitudes longer than if they just queued for their role in the first place*; these are just a few such things off the top of my head that would contradict your sentiments about "dps race design" and "tanks are obsolete and group couldn't clear anyway if they wipe because fake tank dies" and "it's more effective if the group gets a fake tank anyway".

The problem, of course, is much more about fake tanks in *veteran* content - no one actually ever argues that fake tanks in normal basegame dungeons are problematic because those dungeon instances are made to be possible to clear with trash gear at the very lowest of character levels.

I'm going to go with "absolute nonsense", because I sincerely don't think this is hard to understand.

*Especially with the dungeon content released over the last four-five years, however I've queued to enough randoms to have seen many runs even in basegame dungeons where what could have been a smooth run has been turned into an absolute manure storefront because of a fake tank or fake healer.

Let's stop making excuses for cheating other players who actually queue their roles, out of their positions in the queue, let's stop making excuses for this behaviour of treating other players as crap just because you can't be bothered to wait a couple more minutes for your real role queue to pop. It's obnoxious behaviour.

Kraezy

tauriel01 wrote: »

[
I think the only "problem" we have is that people want to have the game run "their way" and anything that doesn't fit into that concept is "wrong."

The concept has not deviated in the 2 decades we've all been playing MMO's and/or franchises that encompass a role with such a title to it.

To try and redefine the role as one that is open to interpretation seems odd at best.

Melivar

Normals typically don't matter even the DLC ones. Sure there is a boss or two that could pose a problem but the people not set for the right role typically know those dungeons and just opt out anyways at least from my experience.

Even so I will normally just roll with what we get until we run into a boss fight that wipes 3 time then its either vote kick the fake role if there is one or I will leave if the vote fail, or just leave if it is a DPS issue which does happen as well, not biggie either way. If you have killed something there is no delayed waiting if you leave so always worth a try.

I will say i was in que last night with Tank Healer and 1 DPS and we waited several rounds of 4-5 minutes without getting an actual DPS the several rounds was due to thinking the que may be borked so i reset twice. Finally got a bite from a guildie and just went in with a full group.

Now Vet dungeons I have no idea why anyone tries to que for a role they aren't suited for as its a waste of everyones time.

Runefang

Why would the people I’m carrying want to leave the group? Or want to kick me?

NettleCarrier

Runefang wrote: »

Why would the people I’m carrying want to leave the group? Or want to kick me?

If only the majority of fake tanks were actually capable of carrying the group. Often it's a level 14 light attack bow user that runs all over the room. My solution lately is either to bring out the armory after the first boss and swap to my tank setup, or if I'm healing I slot inner rage and tell the group something along the lines of "I'm tanking now since our tank can't be bothered to keep things still". I don't necessarily care if we have an actual tank for a dungeon, I do care if the boss is running all over the dang room and my ground effects stop working because of it. I don't care if you have 20k hp, just keep the boss in one place and you're a tank in my book.

sevomd69

Personally I leave a group it there is a real tank…

CoronHR

you can vote to kick the fake tank

NordSwordnBoard

Majority Rules in the PUG