Why don't people kick fake healers but will kick fake tanks?

Starlight_Whisper

What's the difference?

Jerkica

Because any experienced DPS will slot for self healing when PUGing because, well, you can't rely on PUG healers often times. Personally, I run Pale Order on my DPS when going in with a PUG. So lack of healing doesn't kill me; a dead tank on a boss fight does, however.

Eedat

The difference is healers are less needed than tanks. Thread over.

LostHorizon1933

You know, the town I used to live in, there was a bookstore where people played scrabble. If you dared try it even once, you found it was full of mean old jerks who would yell at you for the slightest infraction, who had all sorts of rules they knew about but didn’t enlighten you about, and people that refused to play with newcomers.

The context of that, and threads like this one, you can see why I’ve never done group activities. I for one don’t need an extra boss, especially a bad boss. It’s like putting up a neon sign in the window that says ‘HOSTILE’

Also I gave up bridge for the same reason. That was a card game, youngins.

Noctus

the thing is ppl do kick both but becouse tank has to hold aggro and survive its more obvious when its a fake tank. aslong as u hold the aggro and survive u can be whatever u want. if in that situation while ur holden aggro ur teammates would die (which is unlikely) they would kick healer.

fake healers are just more difficult to spot than fake tanks.

El_Borracho

A fake healer is (hopefully) a decent DPS. Most dungeons do not require a healer if the DPS and tank can heal themselves.

A DPS posing as a tank is absolutely useless in a dungeon that requires a real tank.

Rukia541

What makes a fake healer? All you need is a couple healing spells, and healers should be dpsing anyway, you somehow gonna stack 10 healing/support spells? 1 spell on my magplar full heals someone.. then I go back to dps lul.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

In Normal non DLC content, it doesnt matter. You dont need either. In Normal DLC content, you dont need a healer, but a tank is useful. for some of them, especially if group DPS is low.

In Vet Non DLC, you need a passible tank most of the time, or DPS can get one shot. A Healer is optional. In most Vet DLC content, you need a good tank, and again a healer is optional. Outside perhaps a few DLC Vet hardmode fights, a healer is never a requirement, and even then, its more a suggestion than a requirement.

All that said, I personally much prefer a healer to 3 DPS in vet content. Better sustain, and the reality is that group DPS with 3 DPS is not far off from Group DPS that is buffed/supported by a healer, with only 2 DPS. It's certainly easier with a healer, and in most cases the speed difference is negligible. A good healer will buff the other 2 DPS by more than you think.

TLDR: A tank is a deal breaker in some content, a healer almost never is.

bmnoble

I gave up on getting real healers when tanking in pugs long ago, my tanks back bar is a resto staff set up, radiant healing(auto targeted heal for most of the group, with one button push) orbs(ror extra resources for the group) blood altar(so that if needed the group can use the synergy to pull themselves back from death), so that I could keep the damage dealers alive, in between tanking the bosses.

The reason they are not kicked as often is because its easier for a group to make up for the absence of a healer than it is for the absence of a tank.

That and as a tank when you get two crappy damage dealers during a pug run you hope you get a third damage dealer to replace the healer that just quit the group, so that you can salvage the run.

That is not to say I never get any real healers during pugs it feels like maybe around 3 in 10 are actual people set up for the role or a DPS hybrid the rest are usually just an extra Damage dealer of varying quality.

The only time I get actual healers is when I form a group in one of my guilds for pledges.

amm7sb14_ESO

Rukia541 wrote: »

What makes a fake healer? All you need is a couple healing spells, and healers should be dpsing anyway, you somehow gonna stack 10 healing/support spells? 1 spell on my magplar full heals someone.. then I go back to dps lul.

A real healer could do that *easy*

A *good* healer is doing more than just reactionary burst healing...

amm7sb14_ESO

Double post

VaranisArano

Most of the time, a fake tank is far more detrimental to the success of a group than a fake healer.

Most experienced tanks and DDs build to be fairly self-sufficient, while once you get past the easy dungeons, it's a lot hard for the DDs and healer to compensate for an untaunted boss in their face or chasing other players or the lack of a tank doing certain mechanics, interrupting, etc.

El_Borracho

Rukia541 wrote: »

What makes a fake healer? All you need is a couple healing spells, and healers should be dpsing anyway, you somehow gonna stack 10 healing/support spells? 1 spell on my magplar full heals someone.. then I go back to dps lul.

A fake healer in this context is a DD that queues as a healer. Their lack of healing is typically accompanied by equally poor DPS, which makes the group wonder why the "healer" is there.

Rukia541

El_Borracho wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

What makes a fake healer? All you need is a couple healing spells, and healers should be dpsing anyway, you somehow gonna stack 10 healing/support spells? 1 spell on my magplar full heals someone.. then I go back to dps lul.

A fake healer in this context is a DD that queues as a healer. Their lack of healing is typically accompanied by equally poor DPS, which makes the group wonder why the "healer" is there.

I get it, but magplar has OP heals even as DD so I have no issue with "fake" healing on it, even tho with 2 spells I can keep the group alive on vet and do great dps. I mean if others can do the same, then why not, no issue imo. Fake tank are the real problem because of 1shots in DLC and such.

FantasticFreddie

Because you need a tank, and you don't need a healer 98.2% of the time.

Goregrinder

Every time a healer shows up I flash my pale order ring and slam the door in their face, so we kind of already do.

Kurat

3 dps is actually preferred. Try doing vet dlc dungeons without a tank. With 3 dps you dont even see most mechanics. I'd rather kick " real " healers who only spam mutagen and heavy attack.

Minyassa

I think it's more that some fake healers actually do a decent job healing than that they're needed less. I was running Alcast's one-bar Maelstrom petsorc and was able to consistently keep people from dying when their self-heals weren't enough, and it was dramatic enough sometimes to warrant looking like an actual healer--though I do have to say I never queued as a healer with him because he was a DPS and I'm pedantically lawful about that stuff.

El_Borracho

Rukia541 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

What makes a fake healer? All you need is a couple healing spells, and healers should be dpsing anyway, you somehow gonna stack 10 healing/support spells? 1 spell on my magplar full heals someone.. then I go back to dps lul.

A fake healer in this context is a DD that queues as a healer. Their lack of healing is typically accompanied by equally poor DPS, which makes the group wonder why the "healer" is there.

I get it, but magplar has OP heals even as DD so I have no issue with "fake" healing on it, even tho with 2 spells I can keep the group alive on vet and do great dps. I mean if others can do the same, then why not, no issue imo. Fake tank are the real problem because of 1shots in DLC and such.

I wouldn't consider that a fake healer as you are actually healing. Its the healer that does not heal and puts out weak DPS.

Vevvev

I was a real healer and got kicked instead of my CP 300 DPS friend I was grouped with who the whole time was worried they were not dealing enough damage. Still to this day I don't know why.

Pauwer

Because dungeons are designed so that you dont need a healer. Which as a healer i find offensive.

Sometimes pugs need a healer, which is why i always solo queue for dungeons. So i too might be needed

kargen27

Rukia541 wrote: »

What makes a fake healer? All you need is a couple healing spells, and healers should be dpsing anyway, you somehow gonna stack 10 healing/support spells? 1 spell on my magplar full heals someone.. then I go back to dps lul.

That is right on the borderline of fake healer. A good healer does a full rotation of buffs debuffs and heals while still having the resources to cover any oh $#!+ moments. Depending on the content being run they can also manage some DPS while keeping all that going. If it is a normal dungeon with a half decent group then yeah your Templar can switch over to more DPS but should still keep the buffs up.

peacenote

Jerkica wrote: »

Because any experienced DPS will slot for self healing when PUGing because, well, you can't rely on PUG healers often times. Personally, I run Pale Order on my DPS when going in with a PUG. So lack of healing doesn't kill me; a dead tank on a boss fight does, however.

And THIS is why, as a real healer who pugs, I hate that @*#^@*@ ring. There are no mythic items I can wear to make YOUR dps not register or a tank's taunts ineffective. Horrible game design for any kind of teamwork. That ring should stop working anytime one is grouped.

To answer the OP'S question, I think part of it is that it is harder to define a fake healer (because there are so many hybrid roles that are legitimately helpful for support) while fake tanks are easy to define and spot... not taunting, low health, can't take a hit. You can feel a fake tank almost immediately where it can take a little longer to spot the fake healer, especially if the fake healer is magicka, because they SHOULD be helping with DPS when support is all set.

Sergykid

fake tanks are most of the times capable dps that know what they're doing. People are triggered by this because they don't see the common and useless 40k hp tank that holds block whole fight. They don't understand that a 25k hp tank that deals damage and applies debuffs is giving more to the group than a target dummy for the boss. Also, these capable dps that join as tanks, often rush ahead and triggers roleplayers.

fake healers are a free spot and the lazy choice for most people, so it's harder to get a spot as a fake healer. I dislike fake healers more than fake tanks because they just get carried for free through the dungeon. They don't give ele drain, not major courage, not resources from synergies, just spam regeneration and springs sometimes. Also in most dungeons a healer is not even needed, passive heals from dps are enough. And also don't bring enough dps because again, the healer spot is an easy choice for weak players to get carried through vet content or normal trials.

iksde

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

What makes a fake healer? All you need is a couple healing spells, and healers should be dpsing anyway, you somehow gonna stack 10 healing/support spells? 1 spell on my magplar full heals someone.. then I go back to dps lul.

A real healer could do that *easy*

A *good* healer is doing more than just reactionary burst healing...

and any good healer is not going for pugs jsut to struggle with simple boss doing same group dps alone or with tank as both DD's they have their own people to run content

and almost everywhere outside trials, you wont need even a bit of healer if you will get into group with decent DD, dont need to be god tier or very very good, just decent, just good player knowing how gae works and what to do

spartaxoxo

A fake healer means you slot a different skill or pale order ring, at most. A fake tank means your entire playstyle has to change.

Starlight_Whisper

spartaxoxo wrote: »

A fake healer means you slot a different skill or pale order ring, at most. A fake tank means your entire playstyle has to change.

Healers are just equal to one skill?

volkeswagon

It depends on the person. I never kick people. I find it funny when a tank dies repeatedly while using a greatsword.

Sheezabeast

A good healer buffs your damage and provides you resources. Your Pale Order rings don't do that. Think twice before kicking a geared out healer. We are still very relevant, our ability to provide support to the group will never be truly obsolete.

Starlight_Whisper

Sheezabeast wrote: »

A good healer buffs your damage and provides you resources. Your Pale Order rings don't do that. Think twice before kicking a geared out healer. We are still very relevant, our ability to provide support to the group will never be truly obsolete.

Are our buffs worth it though?

ccfeeling

volkeswagon wrote: »

It depends on the person. I never kick people. I find it funny when a tank dies repeatedly while using a greatsword.

I won't kick him either , but I would like to ask him are you from PVP ?