Fake DPS or Trolling?

El_Borracho

No, this is not another thread about "fake DPS vs fake tanks." Nor is this a thread to just complain about trolls. But I need to know why someone would do this as it wastes their time as much as the group's for no real reward, actual or personal.

I tank a good number of random dungeon runs and pledges and I've recently seen the following. A higher CP group goes into a vet pledge like Crypt of Hearts 1 or a random normal like Icereach. The group gets to the first boss. One of the DDs stands back and just light attacks, either with a bow or destro staff. Up to this point, trash mobs have been going down at a decent pace. But now the boss' health bar is not moving.

As the tank, its pretty easy to see who is doing it. Its not the healer. From my end, I'm a real tank doing all the things a tank should. Aggro, debuff, group support. hold boss, rinse repeat. The other DD and Healer (real or 3rd DD) are doing their thing. Nobody is sprinting through the dungeon, or questing, or lagging, or reading lore books, or looting everything, or anything you would expect that could set off the group. We have not fought enough mobs or the boss long enough to run out of resources, not that light attacks would be the way to rebuild your resources. But here we are, a CP 600+ light attack spamming.

In the last week, I've seen this 4 times, all involving a different player on different days. ESO has a great record of keeping trolls out of PVE. But I can't explain this behavior as anything other than trolling. Why? Why do this? I can't imagine someone waited 20-30 minutes in group finder to just mess with 3 other people.

Cuddlypuff

I've seen plenty of people bring their alt account character in and just park it afk at bosses. Probably just running a laptop next to their PC or something. Doesn't really bother me as long as they don't get in the way.

Marginis

Honestly sounds more than anything like inexperienced players. What with all the players that just have someone run them through Skyreach a million times, there are plenty of high levels that never properly learned how to play the game.

Amerises

This is why I hate random with my tank. I've actually talked to those people, they say they use Alcasts builds, and because their elemental weapon has a higher dps (by the looks of it) they think spamming that is their best dps. I was told "I'm doing 16k a hit, how is that too low? I have a build build!"

I dont think they're trolls. I think the game does a poor job of explaining combat mechanics, as does Alcasts builds (not that they're necessarily bad, but if the person doesn't understand the game, it doesn't help)

GuildedLilly

I don't mind if someone light attack spams-- as long as they're doing SOMETHING. Occasionally it may be that they're using relquen or Sororia-- but somehow the 5th piece isn't on, or the visual whirlwind or flame circle isn't showing for me. I've done enough random normals with PUGs that I really don't care if the DPS is still learning their rotation, if they forgot to get all their gear on, if they're not doing much damage... just do SOMETHING--even if it's the equivalent of hitting the mob or boss with a feather duster--and we're good.

What's been getting on my nerves lately are the XP leeches. They Q for a random-- and hit once on a boss, then just stand idle for the entire freaking dungeon. One even popped out the 'own the throne' emote and was just watching as the rest of us played through-- I successfully voted to kick them them, and THAT got them off their rump. They're literally afk xp & transmute farming on their teammates time and lives, and I have no patience for it.

Cooperharley

El_Borracho wrote: »

No, this is not another thread about "fake DPS vs fake tanks." Nor is this a thread to just complain about trolls. But I need to know why someone would do this as it wastes their time as much as the group's for no real reward, actual or personal.

I tank a good number of random dungeon runs and pledges and I've recently seen the following. A higher CP group goes into a vet pledge like Crypt of Hearts 1 or a random normal like Icereach. The group gets to the first boss. One of the DDs stands back and just light attacks, either with a bow or destro staff. Up to this point, trash mobs have been going down at a decent pace. But now the boss' health bar is not moving.

As the tank, its pretty easy to see who is doing it. Its not the healer. From my end, I'm a real tank doing all the things a tank should. Aggro, debuff, group support. hold boss, rinse repeat. The other DD and Healer (real or 3rd DD) are doing their thing. Nobody is sprinting through the dungeon, or questing, or lagging, or reading lore books, or looting everything, or anything you would expect that could set off the group. We have not fought enough mobs or the boss long enough to run out of resources, not that light attacks would be the way to rebuild your resources. But here we are, a CP 600+ light attack spamming.

In the last week, I've seen this 4 times, all involving a different player on different days. ESO has a great record of keeping trolls out of PVE. But I can't explain this behavior as anything other than trolling. Why? Why do this? I can't imagine someone waited 20-30 minutes in group finder to just mess with 3 other people.

The odd CP 600 wood elf nightblade that just light attacks with a bow is a common occurrence, not because of any other reason than they haven’t had any reason not to in the game. If you think of how easy overland content is and how easy 90% of the normal dungeons are, I think you could get through everything light attacking. There’s not really any bridge point between normal and veteran content other than veteran players calling you trash and you educating yourself and getting better.

This is a huge talk point for why people want the option to have harder overland content because people jump from normal random dailies and questing to veteran dlc dungeons without knowing the difficulty and skill gap. It’s not their fault but it’s still super annoying. The game doesn’t teach them to be better and doesn’t challenge them realistically until then.

NettleCarrier

Funny story time...
I was this guy a few nights ago, though maybe not to that extreme lol. I was with two guildies and we were cycling characters through random normals to farm transmutes. We were all in voice chat so we were hardly paying attention to the game and one person on our group was leveling a low level so it was all easy dungeons. Since we didn't have a 4th, we'd always pick up a random healer each queue. Well on one of these many runs we were in Elden 1 and the healer left during the first boss, I didn't think much of it at first but then in the middle of our chit chat, I was like "wait, why is this boss so tanky" and that's when it hit me... I was using a character I had removed the gear from so another character could use it in a trial. I NEVER remove a character's gear but this was a specific last minute thing I had to do lol. I checked combat metrics and our group had a whole 8k dps the entire fight - no wonder the healer left! I felt terrible... poor guy must have been shaking his head wondering how a CP2130 sorc wasn't carrying the group dps :P. I of course popped up my gear manager after that and swapped in some actual gear. The only item I had been wearing was a maelstrom staff on the backbar, and my front bar was full of class skills so I didn't notice anything right away like an unusable skill lol.

El_Borracho

@Amerises I thought of this as I use Ele Weapon from time to time on my DDs and that would make sense. But it has that weird little hitch, like he player is doing the Magic Mike move, before attacking. If the player was doing 16K a pop, the boss would be dying. Plus, even the Alcast build has you doing more than Ele Weapon + LA

@Jaustink this is what I was gravitating towards. But its still so strange that the players are not using any other skills. Not like the occasional wall of elements, or arrow spray, or some PVP skill you sometimes see, but no skills at all. Its both weird and frustrating.

@GuildedLilly I think this might be it. Its what you described, albeit the throne is a bold move. Because, again, its also happened in a pledge. I've seen the ones in randoms that just idle along hoping the group doesn't care, but I think you're right. Still, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Its just making the dungeon last an unnecessarily long time.

Mythgard1967

If I am doing something i have never done before...I might hang back about 5-10 seconds to see what the "flow of the fight" looks like before engaging up close.....though that's pretty rare.

ArchMikem

If this is your first MMORPG and or you've come from the singleplayer TES games, then you may not ever realize skills besides attacking with your main weapon exist. The ability bar is a foreign concept.

And then if they get called out on it they'll feel insulted and things get heated.

Cooperharley

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Amerises I thought of this as I use Ele Weapon from time to time on my DDs and that would make sense. But it has that weird little hitch, like he player is doing the Magic Mike move, before attacking. If the player was doing 16K a pop, the boss would be dying. Plus, even the Alcast build has you doing more than Ele Weapon + LA

@Jaustink this is what I was gravitating towards. But its still so strange that the players are not using any other skills. Not like the occasional wall of elements, or arrow spray, or some PVP skill you sometimes see, but no skills at all. Its both weird and frustrating.

@GuildedLilly I think this might be it. Its what you described, albeit the throne is a bold move. Because, again, its also happened in a pledge. I've seen the ones in randoms that just idle along hoping the group doesn't care, but I think you're right. Still, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Its just making the dungeon last an unnecessarily long time.

Totally agree with ya. Frustrating regardless.

EozZoe1989

i think people need stop with fake .. there is no fake.. there is people playing the game the way they want to and need too,, lol
if its fake then they are hacking and there is no hacking in eso,, i hope not anyways..
the thing is this game is amazing for trying out new armour and new skills mixing and matching and making own path and look .. even skills .. i think there is no fake .. but i know there always be upset people in the game.. and games all around the world..
there's no stopping it but i think there is alot people who like this game .. and ignore people alot.. i hope this is getting better .. and helping one another is a good thing.. we all need to take the first steps.. i have found in the past couple of days people have been talking its been such fun.. i loved it.. and this game is good when there is teamwork.,. i helped a person get full gear.. wow.. i hope to help others in Duggen's in the future too this is a good feeling.. its cool..

thanks too all the people that are nice and polite its good positive and happy.. woot woot.. iam hoping to help people in and outdie of my guild too.. if anything open up to help guild open stores, and so on ..
this is the way.. hehe
we all can do it if we put are mind too it.. trusting and hoping for best is best way to think .. iam glad i got over my depression alot .. and i feel like iam healing.. this game is good..

RisenEclipse

I wouldn't call them trolling since they would have to be seriously mental to wait 20+ min for the que to pop, just to troll. And they're not fake dps as there is no such thing. Lazy dps? Sure. If they're just there to do the dungeon and get out, and just don't feel like putting any work into actually completing it. Well... they'd more accurately be dumb dps as they are literally making the dungeon longer by choosing to just sit down with their staves up their butts and do nothing.

But they could also be just ignorant dps. Honestly the only way to find out is to pm them. POLITELY. Don't go in kicking the door down and accusing them of doing something on purpose, or barking about how terrible they're doing. Going on the offensive with comments only asks for defensive responses. Which will lead to nowhere... it is the responsibility of the players who know how things work, to educate players who might be ignorant of the way things are done. At least in my opinion. Think of it this way, the more you educate players, the more players there will be that will know better and can help others too.

Although it is better if players who are new to certain vet dungeons (even if you did the normal version) SAY SO in chat before anything begins. Or else it is expected of you to know what you're doing when the dungeon gets started. Then at least you won't have team members thinking you're just being a butt and are trying to troll them.

pklemming

They mostly don't know. I have been a pug tank in vMGF where the group dps was under 30k, and I had to tell them that their dps was too low and we could not complete this. They were all decent XP, and it was a group of 3, trying to get HF for their healer.

They would not believe me, until I took them, painfully, through to Dro'zakar and watched them be unable to destroy his DS until the ae damage ramped up enough to kill them.

I did go through and explain what I consider the minimum dps for this dungeon and why it is worthwhile understanding skills and rotations, then ran them through a few normal MGF.

I know some content creators (one especially) say dps is not important, and dungeons can be completed by doing the mechanics, but some dungeons do actually have both heal and dps checks in them. As long as you pass these, then yes you can complete them, and the higher the dps beyond that the easier it usually gets.

Succuby

In veteran vDLC last boss that has 10 kk hp and summons adds - party had 20k dps.

I as a tank had 3 k dps.

One DD leave the group, DPS becomes 19 k !

My companion have around 7-10k dps by the way.

So companipns already are better that some players and there is no reason to power it up !

The next question is how for DD do DPS of 1 k is even possible !!! When tank have 3 k dps !!!

And after you get such party 7 times one after another, some times you think to try fully naked some where as DD and to check how the hell it is possible !!!

So trolls are possible too ... .

UntilValhalla13

Ah, yes, Johnny Light-Attack-Spammer strikes again. It's why I don't queue anymore as a support role unless I have a guildie or two in group. They're not trolling. They genuinely just don't seem to know how to play the game as a dps.

rbfrgsp

Some people definitely play with two characters and stand one in the corner for the whole dungeon. This is actually becoming fairly common in the last six months.

I tend to kite the boss on top of them so they wipe and then kick the alt.

Cuddlypuff

rbfrgsp wrote: »

Some people definitely play with two characters and stand one in the corner for the whole dungeon. This is actually becoming fairly common in the last six months.

I tend to kite the boss on top of them so they wipe and then kick the alt.

It's what I said in the first reply. 99% of bad DPS are actually frantically heavy attacking and leaping and streaking and all sorts of weird stuff. Does not match the OP's description whatsoever. If someone is literally on fists or light attacking once a blue moon it is just an alt account being controlled by 1 player. If you don't believe me watch how they walk between bosses, if they even bother to walk it at all. Clearly they are pressing the forward arrow on both chars so they end up walking into walls and boxes all the time.

WordsOfPower

Could be a bot. There are plenty of them in dungeons now.

Give crown to healer or DD. Have the tank hold the boss in one corner and move the other 2 players to entry door. If the player in question follows the 2 immediately, then immediately back as they move back, it's a bot.

If not, say in group chat, "do you need some help?"

If no answer, kick.

Obviously kick the bot.

DJ_Virtual

I thought I'd add this to the discussion since it did actually happen to me. I was in a group where the healer and the tank were the same person on two accounts. He would run the healer ahead, which would die of course, then he'd run the tank there and we'd kill things. After the first couple of times seeing this, I realized what was going on and left the group. I knew we wouldn't survive the final boss in vet mode without a legit healer.

VDoom1

I agree with what some others have said, it is probably inexperience and that they probably just don't know how to play the role yet.

New players are probably baffled that it's more than just spamming skills, and frankly ESO doesn't have a great DD tutorial. People who come to ESO from any other TES game will just be spamming light attacks, that is more or less what we do there.

Combat in ESO for a DD is unique, but it can be confusing and overwhelming to inexperienced players. Some players probably think that equipping an Alcast build will allow them to do super damage, alas that is not the case.

El_Borracho

WordsOfPower wrote: »

Could be a bot. There are plenty of them in dungeons now.

Give crown to healer or DD. Have the tank hold the boss in one corner and move the other 2 players to entry door. If the player in question follows the 2 immediately, then immediately back as they move back, it's a bot.

If not, say in group chat, "do you need some help?"

If no answer, kick.

Obviously kick the bot.

Nice. I'm going to give this a try next time I see someone plinking from the back row.

I appreciate all the replies. I normally don't have a problem helping people through dungeons who want help. The newer/unfamiliar players stand out, usually because they are dropping skills all over the place or executing once the fight begins. Have found that most players are grateful for the assist.

Necrotech_Master

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

rbfrgsp wrote: »

Some people definitely play with two characters and stand one in the corner for the whole dungeon. This is actually becoming fairly common in the last six months.

I tend to kite the boss on top of them so they wipe and then kick the alt.

It's what I said in the first reply. 99% of bad DPS are actually frantically heavy attacking and leaping and streaking and all sorts of weird stuff. Does not match the OP's description whatsoever. If someone is literally on fists or light attacking once a blue moon it is just an alt account being controlled by 1 player. If you don't believe me watch how they walk between bosses, if they even bother to walk it at all. Clearly they are pressing the forward arrow on both chars so they end up walking into walls and boxes all the time.

100% lol

i know ive done this when ive dual boxed a dungeon with my friends (we rather have my alt account than a random sometimes lol)