Yet another complaint about fake Tanks and Healers.

BackStabeth

I do the veteran undaunted pledges with guildmates whenever I can. That being said, I do queue for random groups often just simply because of the time I am able to play, and there not being available people in my guilds to do the pledges with.

I don't mind playing in randoms even when there comes with that the requirement to carry others who are new to pledges, or vet dungeons, or hard mode or just trying to get their first monster helm. I actually enjoy helping people who are honestly trying, I have no issue with that at all. And I like meeting new people in random pugs, no problems with that at all either.

But I try to do pledges with guildmates because of one reason, that's fake tanks and healers. So think about this, many people feel and do as I do. They shy from random pugs because of the fake healers and tanks, and yet fake healers and tanks are selfishly trying to jump the queue because more people do not queue for random pugs. You see the problem? The very fact that these people are selfishly faking, causes more people to not queue in random pugs for pledges. That is the real issue I feel.

So today, the veteran pledges, Darkshade and Tempest, but not all that difficult and yet, 3 times I caught a group with fake tanks that couldn't survive even trash mobs, and once a fake healer with two others low enough CP they couldn't survive without a healer, couldn't slot the skills or whatever. All 4 times, the group fell apart.

The only reason to do veteran undaunted pledges is for the extra resources, keys, crystals etc. There is no reason, no benefit to do the veteran dungeons and not do hard mode, you might as well just do the regular dungeons.

Just don't queue as a fake tank or healer for veteran dungeons that are undaunted pledges, it's selfish and rude, it negatively affects everyone else and what you are really asking is for a carry, for people to slot different skills to make up for the fact you are faking it, or to have a far more difficult time and to play differently than the character they queued for because you are selfish. If however you feel you are high enough CP, and skilled enough to queue as a fake tank or healer, you better damn well make up for it in some other way and not negatively affect the other people in your group. Meaning, you better be a superstar and do most the damage and contribute. Every one of the fake tanks that I ended up with today, could not even survive trash and all were under 200 CP. There is no reason for that kind of crap.

Since ZOS will not do anything about it, I am really hoping that the people who think being selfish is acceptable read this, and I hope those that are tired of this type of thing post in such a way so that it's clear this is an issue people don't like or enjoy and don't want to deal with.

I'm going to ask nicely even though I feel these people for the most part don't really care how they negatively affect others. Please, if you are thinking about faking being a tank or healer, don't. Don't do it on veteran undaunted pledges, please. It's sucks to be thrown into a group where you have people faking, and then trying and failing, or being so tired of it asking to be kicked right from the start and having to go through the queue all over again. It's depressing, it's such a huge let down when you realize the healer or tank is not real. Why would you want to play in a group where you are making it more difficult for everyone and forcing them to play in a way they didn't intend? Are you really that selfish, that you willingly screw over 3 other people in that way? Think about it, and please don't do it.

Kurat

Tempest and Darkshade can easily be soloed on vet, including HM. Tanks are only needed for vet dlcs and healers only for some vet dlc HMs.

BackStabeth

Kurat wrote: »

Tempest and Darkshade can easily be soloed on vet, including HM. Tanks are only needed for vet dlcs and healers only for some vet dlc HMs.

Naw, that's not true not at all. It might be able to be done by someone who has practiced, a lot, and has the CP to distribute to do so. But that might be nobody in the group, or it might be one. If that is the case, then the fake healer or fake tank should do them solo and shouldn't be in a queue with other people. What it seems you are suggesting is that the other people, the fake tank or healer, and anyone under the CP to be able to do the dungeon solo, should be carried instead by the person who might be able to do so.

That's not fair at all, not for anyone.

In Darkshade Caverns II Grobull The Transmuted is just a pain in the butt if you don't have enough DPS, that is a slog. For one good DPS it's a slog. Without a tank just makes it miserable. I don't want to try it solo. The Mech Army, you have to be very careful to pick the corner and not aggro the entire mob if you have no tank. It's chaotic without a tank, makes it miserable and another I wouldn't want to solo. The Engine Guardian isn't that big a deal, but even still it's much easier when you have support.

If someone is going to queue as a fake, then they better damned well be able to do it solo, and carry everyone else. It doesn't matter at all if they can do it themselves so much as it matters the extra work, effort, pain in the butt it is for everyone else.

You have to use the right character, the right build, the right tactics if you solo veteran dungeons in HM on your own. And even at that, personally, I can't do any of them in HM solo, no way, I don't have any characters that I believe can. One whack from a lot of bosses kills me dead, but those are the characters I love playing, and at 810 I have no problem admitting that I have no desire to do any of the vet dungeons, in HM, solo, ever let alone carry a fake tank or healer or both.

I understand that for some people doing dungeons solo is their jam, and more power to them. But, negatively affecting everyone else just because you believe you can do a dungeon solo, so it shouldn't be a problem for others is just bull. If you can do that, then do it solo and don't affect others gameplay with your selfish behavior.

zvavi

Counter complaint. Fake dds. I failed 3 LoM pugs today because the damage was just not there. Why do I wear support sets. On my tank. In the end I just did it with guildies.

I got into a pug in vDC2 3 days ago where as the tank, in yolna alkosh symphony, I was doing 30% of the damage.

Maybe more tanks would be willing to go into group finder if the group finder experience wouldn't be so riddled with fake dds.

BackStabeth

zvavi wrote: »

Counter complaint. Fake dds. I failed 3 LoM pugs today because the damage was just not there. Why do I wear support sets. On my tank. In the end I just did it with guildies.

You are absolutely right, and I wouldn't call it a counter complain but one that I might should have added.

I don't mind carrying other DPS if they are trying, but I imagine doing your part as a tank or healer, and having two DPS that can't pull their weight is annoying as hell.

Were you doing LoM because it was a pledge recently? Haven't played in a few days so I am not sure.

Anyway, yeah, fake anything is annoying as hell.

ccfeeling

You want 10 keys from pug?
Take the challenge

spartaxoxo

I actually find it painful to queue as a real tank healer or dps than as a fake for a non-queue time related reason. I find it the most painful when the dps is fake. At least with fake tanks or healers, even if things are chaotic it's over quickly. Fake dps though, it's excruciatingly slow. So I quite often queue as a fake healers and slot like one heal and barrier. Then I just dps with the occasional top up if someone needs it or barrier if stuff gets dicey. I don't debuff the boss or do more minor healing, and I don't care if that means a dps has to slot a self heal. Should have that slotted as a general rule in a pug anyway.

ccfeeling

I play tank and pug frequently and I vote Azureblight Cancroid in LOM the best pug Killer even current patch.

ZOS create the mechanics impossible to pick up the group after 3rd weave , what after Pts is dmg get huge nerfs too, well, im not sure should I leave once I enter LOM in PUG in the future , I dont wanna waste 30 mins and que again.

I also have to take the risk there are some fake dps or healer in group...

I feel shock dev nerf MHK and FV instead of LOM.

zvavi

ccfeeling wrote: »

I play tank and pug frequently and I vote Azureblight Cancroid in LOM the best pug Killer even current patch.

ZOS create the mechanics impossible to pick up the group after 3rd weave , what after Pts is dmg get huge nerfs too, well, im not sure should I leave once I enter LOM in PUG in the future , I dont wanna waste 30 mins and que again.

I also have to take the risk there are some fake dps or healer in group...

I feel shock dev nerf MHK and FV instead of LOM.

Actually, ye tbf you can see how it will go on the first (stationary) boss. Group dps not 70k? Time to ditch.

LoM (alongside mgf) were my main candidate to bad mechanics when I made my thread about dungeon bugs. Those are the only dlc that have fights I want to see reworked entirely, because they are pure bs.

MGF gragoil should cut geyser damage to 25%, then rump up to 175%. (As it is now it is literally safer to stay in the middle and outheal. So much for mechanics).
MGF ruins boss should throw 1 stone at each alive group member, and not 4 randomly split among group members.
LoM 3rd boss should be entirely reworked, until it is, make the investor use his blue aoe attack on spawn, to avoid insta one shots to dds/heals (can be dodged but the fact it can attack someone before the tank can taunt it is bs)
LoM 4th boss stranglers should be soft agroed by being damaged and not attack beetles after they were.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I agree 100%. It makes the already daunting task of pugging so much worse, and those that defend it by saying "you don't need healer/tank in this dungeon"... Ahaha. Maybe not in a group of experienced players. Last time I checked, pugging wasn't known for being abundant with those. And to assume YOU know what's best or needed for every random group configuration tells me all I need to know... you don't pug frequently. Lol.

Kurat

OP I dont mean to bash you or anything but you said that you cant solo vet Tempest or Darksade. So you may be part of the reason why real tanks dont wanna pug. You only need 20-30k dps to solo any base game vets. Ofc you can do it with less but it takes longer and you may need some hybrid tank build. I know some tanks who solo everything with real tank setup and 5k dps lol. But that's just crazy.
Now that we have the ring of the pale order, its even easier to solo content. Your dps must be very low if you cant solo, like 10k. With that you really have no right to demand real tank. Dont complain about fake roles if you're fake yourself.

Viewsfrom6ix

Kurat wrote: »

Tempest and Darkshade can easily be soloed on vet, including HM. Tanks are only needed for vet dlcs and healers only for some vet dlc HMs.

Solo-able? Yes.
Easy? No.

Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it is easy. Not everyone is as good as you.

NoSoup

That's why I just solo the vet non-dlc pledges now. It might take a little longer and I might be doing the same amount of work as if I just queued but the end result is always a great degree of satisfaction compared to frustration....

worrallj

Mmmm fake tanks and healers are really not the reason ppl don't pug vets. I have no qualms pugging vets on my dps because he's got decently high dps so I know the group will move quickly even if there's a lot of dying due to fake tanks/healers.

But I don't like pugging on my tank & healer because even though the ques are faster the dungeon itself is quite often stupidly slow because the dps is so low. carrying a group as a tank is one of the most boring things you can imagine, and a lot of the time the group winds up falling apart anyway.

Viewsfrom6ix

Kurat wrote: »

OP I dont mean to bash you or anything but you said that you cant solo vet Tempest or Darksade. So you may be part of the reason why real tanks dont wanna pug. You only need 20-30k dps to solo any base game vets. Ofc you can do it with less but it takes longer and you may need some hybrid tank build. I know some tanks who solo everything with real tank setup and 5k dps lol. But that's just crazy.
Now that we have the ring of the pale order, its even easier to solo content. Your dps must be very low if you cant solo, like 10k. With that you really have no right to demand real tank. Dont complain about fake roles if you're fake yourself.

Since when is soloing vet base dungs a prerequisite for being a real DPS?

regime211

BackStabeth wrote: »

I do the veteran undaunted pledges with guildmates whenever I can. That being said, I do queue for random groups often just simply because of the time I am able to play, and there not being available people in my guilds to do the pledges with.

I don't mind playing in randoms even when there comes with that the requirement to carry others who are new to pledges, or vet dungeons, or hard mode or just trying to get their first monster helm. I actually enjoy helping people who are honestly trying, I have no issue with that at all. And I like meeting new people in random pugs, no problems with that at all either.

But I try to do pledges with guildmates because of one reason, that's fake tanks and healers. So think about this, many people feel and do as I do. They shy from random pugs because of the fake healers and tanks, and yet fake healers and tanks are selfishly trying to jump the queue because more people do not queue for random pugs. You see the problem? The very fact that these people are selfishly faking, causes more people to not queue in random pugs for pledges. That is the real issue I feel.

So today, the veteran pledges, Darkshade and Tempest, but not all that difficult and yet, 3 times I caught a group with fake tanks that couldn't survive even trash mobs, and once a fake healer with two others low enough CP they couldn't survive without a healer, couldn't slot the skills or whatever. All 4 times, the group fell apart.

The only reason to do veteran undaunted pledges is for the extra resources, keys, crystals etc. There is no reason, no benefit to do the veteran dungeons and not do hard mode, you might as well just do the regular dungeons.

Just don't queue as a fake tank or healer for veteran dungeons that are undaunted pledges, it's selfish and rude, it negatively affects everyone else and what you are really asking is for a carry, for people to slot different skills to make up for the fact you are faking it, or to have a far more difficult time and to play differently than the character they queued for because you are selfish. If however you feel you are high enough CP, and skilled enough to queue as a fake tank or healer, you better damn well make up for it in some other way and not negatively affect the other people in your group. Meaning, you better be a superstar and do most the damage and contribute. Every one of the fake tanks that I ended up with today, could not even survive trash and all were under 200 CP. There is no reason for that kind of crap.

Since ZOS will not do anything about it, I am really hoping that the people who think being selfish is acceptable read this, and I hope those that are tired of this type of thing post in such a way so that it's clear this is an issue people don't like or enjoy and don't want to deal with.

I'm going to ask nicely even though I feel these people for the most part don't really care how they negatively affect others. Please, if you are thinking about faking being a tank or healer, don't. Don't do it on veteran undaunted pledges, please. It's sucks to be thrown into a group where you have people faking, and then trying and failing, or being so tired of it asking to be kicked right from the start and having to go through the queue all over again. It's depressing, it's such a huge let down when you realize the healer or tank is not real. Why would you want to play in a group where you are making it more difficult for everyone and forcing them to play in a way they didn't intend? Are you really that selfish, that you willingly screw over 3 other people in that way? Think about it, and please don't do it.

I have said this before and I will say it again. if you need a Tank & Healer, for dungeons you could literally do 4 DD, or even 3 DD and a tank, then I suggest those individuals go practice more. It's frustrating also being a tank when the DPS who count the most, depending on boss and mechanics seem to not be able to kill a boss quick enough.

ThorianB

You know one reason people feel the need to do this is because they enter the queue as DPS and will wait 20,40,60 plus minutes for it to pop. Some people say they log off before it pops after 2 hours or more. So they queue as fake tanks and healers because those are unreasonable wait times.

Do you know why a lot of them wait that long? Because they don't know that the queue bugs a lot and even when you queue as a tank or healer or an entire group the queue just wont pop. So you have to leave queue and requeue. It is why i have a time limit that i will wait before i leave and requeue( during peak):

• Tank: 1 minute
• Healer: 3 minutes
• DPS: 7 minutes
• Battlegrounds: 3 minutes.

I have never had to queue more than 20 minutes during peak as DPS.

I hope that a complete rebuild of the LFG tool is on ZOS's project list.

Carthelion

My average wait time on my DPS isnt that long to be fair, 15 minutes on average. Which soon flies by if you're busy.
Saying that, we kicked a fake tank a few days ago in White Gold Tower. Full light armour and staff. Actually ended up 3 Manning it in the end.

Hotdog_23

ThorianB wrote: »

You know one reason people feel the need to do this is because they enter the queue as DPS and will wait 20,40,60 plus minutes for it to pop. Some people say they log off before it pops after 2 hours or more. So they queue as fake tanks and healers because those are unreasonable wait times.

Do you know why a lot of them wait that long? Because they don't know that the queue bugs a lot and even when you queue as a tank or healer or an entire group the queue just wont pop. So you have to leave queue and requeue. It is why i have a time limit that i will wait before i leave and requeue( during peak):

• Tank: 1 minute
• Healer: 3 minutes
• DPS: 7 minutes
• Battlegrounds: 3 minutes.

I have never had to queue more than 20 minutes during peak as DPS.

I hope that a complete rebuild of the LFG tool is on ZOS's project list.

This is about the same time frame I have also for each of the above task.

That said fake tanks annoy me a lot more then fake healer.

My threshold for a tank is low just hold agro so I am not chasing the boss and recasting abilities to do my job as a DPS. I hate face tanking a boss while doing dps when I didn’t queue as a tank. If you want to cheat the system at least have a dang taunt for the boss. Anyone can afford to slot inner fire somewhere on they’re bar if they are queueing as a tank.

Much prefer a healer to be doing dps then healing most of the time. Usually a single HOT is enough to keep me and others topper off. Rather then watching me play I would prefer they participate and kill stuff.

But such is the pug life. I have learned to accept it and move on.

Stay safe and have fun

Elwendryll

OP is very brave, I would prefer not running at all over not running with my guild mates (maybe because I'm lazy). Also, the people who would benefit from reading this are most likely not on the forum, or interested in your opinion.

That being said, being DD will mitigate the risks of a bad group. Why?

You can be the best tank ever, if your group has no damage, you're doomed.

A healer can lean into damage a bit, but depending on the content and your experience, you can't always do that. A healer is here to keep the DDs alive and increase the damage the group does. But if there is barely any damage to begin with, the healer role in itself loses a lot of value.

DDs can deal damage, survive, and keep themselves alive.

Most of the base game dungeons, I'm confident I could perform all 3 roles at once pretty decently. Positioning the boss/adds, dealing damage and keeping my group alive. Because our current achieveable power is far greater than the one we had when these dungeons were designed.

There aren't that many encounters that put the players under enough pressure to actually require a tank. For the base game, the light attacks are very weak, and the hard hitting mechanics can often just be dodged, or you can kite out of it. As long as you have some healing, it is fine.

The more damage you have, the shorter the encounters are, it means less pressure, so you need less sustain and mitigation.

You can complain about fake tanks and healers. It is pretty bad for new players as it doesn't provide a good environment for learning. But however bad it is, you can often salvage this, especially fake healers. Healers aren't required in most of the content, you will often be better off with an other DD. There are very few encounters with a healing check, I used to think Frostvault HM absolutely required a healer to keep the tank alive. Turns out it doesn't, I realized that when we cleared the HM with our healer roleplaying as a carpet.

If you have bad supports, the DDs can make up for that, if you have bad DDs, you can try to deal some damage to help, but there are a lot of situations where you'll just be unable to clear at all (LoM is a great example).

So, yes. Fake tanks and healers are a bad thing, it makes the group finder a bad place to progress as an inexperienced player. However the really harming thing is damage dealers not performing at a sufficient level. In this game everything revolves around damage. DDs are the centerpiece of everything, the tanks and healers are supports, their role is to enhance that damage.

A very good DD can do just fine in the group finder even with a bad group. A very good tank is doomed with a bad group. Tanks are also pretty rare, and if you're a good one, you'll get asked to help for pledges very frequently. That's why you don't see that many good tanks in the group finder, they don't need it, and if they used it, they would be exposing themselves to a very painful experience.

MakoRuu

I was farming transmute crystals yesterday so I could recreate a set for my stamcro, and in FOUR of the six dungeons that I did, our tanks were fake. One guy didn't even have a sword and a shield. He was double barring destruction staves.

When I confronted him, he said "It's fine, I can solo it. This is just faster."

Two of our group members in The Banished Cells II were under level 40, and they both died multiple times because this player, (who was around 450CP) let them die over and over again.

Yes, we veterans can solo normal dungeons, and a group of 810CP players can easily burn a normal dungeon without a tank, but this creates a HORRIBLE experience for new players trying to enjoy ESO.

Imagine sitting in queue in a dungeon finder for already 30+ minutes, and then entering a dungeon with a fake tank and dying over and over again. What kind of impression does that leave on someone who's only been playing a few weeks and just wants to level and get some dungeon gear?

Grandchamp1989

It's true in decent groups 3dd 1t is fine

But most PUGS needs some serious babysitting.

If the Tank miss a single baby skeleton add it will start to hit DDs, and if there isn't a healer present to babysit the DD it will continue to do so until he dies. The tought of getting out of red circles or pop a self heal doesn't register to some people. Only spamming light and heavy attack does.

When I play HM with good dd's they handle collosus from Fang Lair HM themselves, and they handle the werewolves in Moonhunter Keep HM themselves.

Sometimes I play banished cell 2 and will miss a baby skeleton hiding in a cornor and to my surprise a team mate is dead some seconds later..

So many PUGs can not survive without constant support and rez.

Zer0_CooL

Im tank and i prefere fake heal with decent damge, even in most DLC dugeons. Fake tank though sucks because the froup looses DPS when the boss runs around furious.

gronoxvx

Nerf fake tank and healer threads plz

Agenericname

BackStabeth wrote: »

I do the veteran undaunted pledges with guildmates whenever I can. That being said, I do queue for random groups often just simply because of the time I am able to play, and there not being available people in my guilds to do the pledges with.

I don't mind playing in randoms even when there comes with that the requirement to carry others who are new to pledges, or vet dungeons, or hard mode or just trying to get their first monster helm. I actually enjoy helping people who are honestly trying, I have no issue with that at all. And I like meeting new people in random pugs, no problems with that at all either.

But I try to do pledges with guildmates because of one reason, that's fake tanks and healers. So think about this, many people feel and do as I do. They shy from random pugs because of the fake healers and tanks, and yet fake healers and tanks are selfishly trying to jump the queue because more people do not queue for random pugs. You see the problem? The very fact that these people are selfishly faking, causes more people to not queue in random pugs for pledges. That is the real issue I feel.

So today, the veteran pledges, Darkshade and Tempest, but not all that difficult and yet, 3 times I caught a group with fake tanks that couldn't survive even trash mobs, and once a fake healer with two others low enough CP they couldn't survive without a healer, couldn't slot the skills or whatever. All 4 times, the group fell apart.

The only reason to do veteran undaunted pledges is for the extra resources, keys, crystals etc. There is no reason, no benefit to do the veteran dungeons and not do hard mode, you might as well just do the regular dungeons.

Just don't queue as a fake tank or healer for veteran dungeons that are undaunted pledges, it's selfish and rude, it negatively affects everyone else and what you are really asking is for a carry, for people to slot different skills to make up for the fact you are faking it, or to have a far more difficult time and to play differently than the character they queued for because you are selfish. If however you feel you are high enough CP, and skilled enough to queue as a fake tank or healer, you better damn well make up for it in some other way and not negatively affect the other people in your group. Meaning, you better be a superstar and do most the damage and contribute. Every one of the fake tanks that I ended up with today, could not even survive trash and all were under 200 CP. There is no reason for that kind of crap.

Since ZOS will not do anything about it, I am really hoping that the people who think being selfish is acceptable read this, and I hope those that are tired of this type of thing post in such a way so that it's clear this is an issue people don't like or enjoy and don't want to deal with.

I'm going to ask nicely even though I feel these people for the most part don't really care how they negatively affect others. Please, if you are thinking about faking being a tank or healer, don't. Don't do it on veteran undaunted pledges, please. It's sucks to be thrown into a group where you have people faking, and then trying and failing, or being so tired of it asking to be kicked right from the start and having to go through the queue all over again. It's depressing, it's such a huge let down when you realize the healer or tank is not real. Why would you want to play in a group where you are making it more difficult for everyone and forcing them to play in a way they didn't intend? Are you really that selfish, that you willingly screw over 3 other people in that way? Think about it, and please don't do it.

Ive never been convinced that ZOS should do anything about it. Ive yet to see a solution offered up in these forums that didnt penalize real tanks for something that some other role is doing.

Aside from the reasons why tanks dislike PUGs that have already been mentioned I'll add this; a while back one of my friends wanted to try tanking. So we spent a little time getting gear and explaining the basics. We were short one so we PUG'd. Damage wouldnt have been an issue even if we had a literal potato for the 4th, but what we got was a DD that insisted on pulling every single encounter, even after being asked not since the tank was learning.

At the end they asked how often that happens. They got their answer and they havent PUG'd since. They still tank, just not in a PUG.

If DDs (as a whole) wanted more tanks in queue, they wouldnt make it so unappetizing.

Veinblood1965

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! For the love of Alkatrash please no more fake tank threads! I can't take it!

jle30303

As a real tank, you know what I find annoying? DDs who think that just because they *can* hit hard, they can race ahead, pull 80% of the trash, leave me to slog through the other 20% trying to catch up with them because I don't have an infinite amount of stamina or Ring of the Wild Hunt, and then blame me when they die to trash because although they can pack a punch they can't take one. Sure, you might be able to pull 80k DPS, but when you're dead, that's 0 DPS, and I'm slogging through the mobs you left behind, who gave up on the chase and ran back to start, at my pretty much invulnerable but only 7k DPS.

No, the fault isn't mine for being too slow. It's yours for going too fast and failing to actually do your job which is kill stuff. You'd get that part of the dungeon actually done faster in two trash pulls rather than one anyway, because even if I *was* there I can't taunt the whole lot of them at once and you've just shown that you can't handle all the trash in one go.

pelle412

Guys (and girls), this is never going to change. ZoS has been aware of this for years. If it was important to them it would have been addressed already. If you don't want to play with fake tanks, fake healers, bad dps, form your own group.

Thechuckage

A large part of the problem is that 1T 3DD setup works in a lot of instances. Even 4 DD. This ultimately lands on the devs for not making mechanics that require a healer and/or tank. Kinda like the proc set meta in pvpland. People will use the most effective means to get what they want.

Make the current methods ineffective and suddenly things will change.

pelle412

Thechuckage wrote: »

A large part of the problem is that 1T 3DD setup works in a lot of instances. Even 4 DD. This ultimately lands on the devs for not making mechanics that require a healer and/or tank. Kinda like the proc set meta in pvpland. People will use the most effective means to get what they want.

Make the current methods ineffective and suddenly things will change.

I think that's what ZoS is trying to do. The newer vet DLC dungeons especially the hardmode fights are just much cleaner when done with a healer. You can do 3DD but it just ups the risk.

jle30303

Thing is that a healer's useless against one-shot mechanics: healers are for when there is damage over time that can actually be healed (e.g. the poison phase of the final boss of Darkshade 2, if you aren't fast enough to pull the levers or choose not to).

Frankly, I hate one-shot mechanics generally.