Tired of fake dps

RageKing

I mainly tank but lately it has been brutal. The average dps i seem to get from random normal dungeon que is like 4-8k dps. its absolutely insane. My tank puts out 4-5k and the past few days im constantly seeing my dps being around 20%, with the total group dps being 25k or so.
twice in a row today i got group with "dps" that was 4k. The entire group dps was 12k. AND ONE OF THE DPS WAS CP803! SImilar situation Happend right after. Both times by 30k dps on my mag sorc fake tank was 75% of group damage with total group damage being 41k. that means if the healers didnt do a single lick of damage the 2 dps were doing 5.5k between them.
Now im forced to run on a hybrid tank dps. becuase of the absolute trash players that are so soft and complain and get angry when you try to give them tips to increase their dps. They yell about their play style and blah blah blah. Let people with crap playstyle be grouped together PLEASE. let them understand what its like to play with them. They arent punished in game at all for such low dps.
Please for the love of god add a que that requires a certain difficult ingame achivement related to that role your attempting to que as. Let the casuals play with eachother and let us more serious player do the same.

RageKing

and for those that say get in a guild. Iam but there are times when you wanna just grind a dungeon over and over fast for gear and the fastest way to do that is through the que. im in 3 guilds with over 400 players and it still takes a while to get a group to run a specific dungeon. especially if its dlc.

Raideen

Sometimes my GF and I will queue with a terribly geared DPS toon, but only if the other is on their strongest DPS to help balance out the DPS.

Frankly though, I dont like running vets because most of my characters are worth about 20k DPS (in a dungeon) and I feel bad that I do not pull hard numbers for fast runs.

I really have no clue how players pull ridiculous numbers. I try to min max the race with the skills, rotations, weave etc etc and the best I have done is about 47k on the new trial target dummy on my best geared, golded, min maxed character.

I don't know if its because I play all magicka, or if I just suck but I just dont seem to be able to pull hard numbers. So, if I am one of these guys in your runs, I apologize. I dont want to suck, I just cant figure out how not to.

kargen27

Or the quick fix is don't queue for a random group. Form one in zone chat then queue for a random dungeon if you want the rewards. In zone chat you can set requirements for people to join your group.

mikemacon

🙄

Miszou

I had this last night too... I was doing more damage as a tank in my solo overland set (Illambris + Thunderbug) than BOTH dps combined. I looked at the logs and one was at 1.9k DPS. If I had used my "normal" tank gear, we'd probably still be nibbling on the bosses toes, 18 hours later.

I wouldn't have cared too much but this was a vet dungeon, presumably just being run for the Opal goodies.

To be fair though... it is possible for a new character to turn 50 with no gear, but have hundreds of CP in the bank. But I still find it hard to believe that even using self-found garbage and quest reward gear that you could put out such low numbers.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

If I had a nickel for every dd I saw in a vet dungeon with a resto staff, lol.

WeerW3ir

So fake tank, now fake dps.. Whats next?

LoneStar2911

Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.

Flaaklypa

I once ran logs just to see what these people were using in my fake tank adventure, one of them had a shoulder named:

Epaulets

Literally no enchantment, or set bonus. It should give you an idea of some of tbe players that are queuing for random dunfeo s

vestahls

It's a PUG though, as long as you can get through to the end what's the problem?

Was in one the other day where the tank said upfront they were fake tanking to shorten the queue. It's all fine, you can go through it on normal with 4 people regardless of dps.

Grandchamp1989

I feel you OP lol I do.

I think any tank main doing PUGS feel it.

Was doing vet pug city of ash 2 with low DPS and even lower survivability.

Would stack adds... Then the talons (cc) would run out and they would scatter and I had to chain them in again and talon again.. Stacked adds on top of bosses to make it go faster.

I dragged ass until the final boss. The lava platforms were gone and 20-30 flame atronachs were shooting from everywhere. After rezing the team 4-5 times I decided it wasn't worth it. Don't think they could clear it.

In normal I usually stomach the unusually bad DPS... BUt sometimes I see cp810 pulling 10k and I wonder how it's possible..

For vet there should be a limit though. Vet is for Veterans and you're not a veteran DD if you pull 10k and die all the time and don't know mechs. I'm sorry but you walked through the wrong door - Normal is in the other line.

Everest_Lionheart

Raideen wrote: »

Sometimes my GF and I will queue with a terribly geared DPS toon, but only if the other is on their strongest DPS to help balance out the DPS.

Frankly though, I dont like running vets because most of my characters are worth about 20k DPS (in a dungeon) and I feel bad that I do not pull hard numbers for fast runs.

I really have no clue how players pull ridiculous numbers. I try to min max the race with the skills, rotations, weave etc etc and the best I have done is about 47k on the new trial target dummy on my best geared, golded, min maxed character.

I don't know if its because I play all magicka, or if I just suck but I just dont seem to be able to pull hard numbers. So, if I am one of these guys in your runs, I apologize. I dont want to suck, I just cant figure out how not to.

If you are doing 47K on the trial dummy you are fine. 20k on the 3mil is also fine. The way you push the really big numbers is practice, lots and lots of practice. You work on keeping all your bugs and dots up near 100% of the time, hitting all LA’s at a perfect pace depending on the skills being used in your rotation. Take magplar as an example weaving sweep and weaving elemental weapons are two entirely different animals all together. That weaving pattern can affect the amount of spamable’s you are able to squeeze in while keeping those dots up. Typical magplar rotation of ~10 seconds gets 4x spamable in there. If you miss a light attack while channeling sweeps is a few K lost over 10 seconds which is next to nothing, but if you missfire a LA after casting ele weapons you are losing ~30k in one shot on that dummy. That’s 3K loss per second by missing one. Miss 2 and a that’s 6k lost. You are also losing out on bonus damage if you are using purifying light and missing those LA’s. If you have to heavy attack to sustain you lose damage, if you can’t keep up you minor force buff though either trap beast or channel accel you lose damage. It adds up fast, but I would say at 47K once you get the timing down you will shoot up in bunches 50-60K is working reach with a little work and a tighter rotation. Above that it’s getting faster that matters. Go slower and go for accuracy before working on speed. All told at first it may be 3 spamable instead of 4 (or whatever your build calls for) but you will understand what it means to have max uptime on all dots and buffs.

El_Borracho

I have to back up @RageKing. Since the bump to the geodes for random normals, I've been pugging once a day with my tank. The overwhelming majority of pug runs have been somewhere between good to flat out incredible. However, I recently had a crew in normal WGT that couldn't burn the third set of adds down before the first boss. Had to bail. My patience has limits. That, and the leaving penalty was going to be shorter than making it through that dungeon.

Shantu

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.

This is the approach of most players in this game. Using the DF will get you groups that represent what the player base is like. Don't blame players. Most want to login and have a little fun in their free time...not take on a second job of theory crafting and endless hours of practicing a weaving rotation. This situation was created by the combat system and the grouping system ZOS created, not players considered too lazy to learn.

If the DF system frustrates you, then invest whatever time it takes to put together your own group. Seriously, the extra time it takes will be worth the frustration avoided. If you've been around for even a short time, it should be pretty clear by now that complaining about it will get you nowhere.

Tommy_The_Gun

I "mained" a tank role, as I kinda enjoyed it. I liked to help ppl, you know, to taunt & block that damage that would otherwise two-shot my teammates.

But, well it was long time ago, and tbh I dont remember when I last time used LFG at all. The experience simply went downhill to the point in which it is not enjoyable at all (from a tank perspective).

I mean, PvE tanks & healers are kinda in a bad spot. It is better to DPS boss to skip mechanics.

Also imho some mechanics were kinda unfair and maybe even badly designed (again, from a tank perspective).
It is just weird that it is better to roll-dodge 100% damage (including one-shots), rather than block it. Especially if you get some bad / poor DPS players... it takes FOREVER to kill something.... and I can not tank stuff forever...


Nowadays, I usually prefer to solo dungeon. And if I can not solo it (mostly due to mechanics), I look if it is worth it to farm gear (If gear justifies it). If it is not, I am ignoring it.

But I have my tank build ready, just in case there will be some content that will be interesting

CrashTest

RageKing wrote: »

Let people with crap playstyle be grouped together PLEASE. let them understand what its like to play with them. They arent punished in game at all for such low dps.
Please for the love of god add a que that requires a certain difficult ingame achivement related to that role your attempting to que as. Let the casuals play with eachother and let us more serious player do the same.

Funny you should mention that bc I've been noticing that GF is pairing me with a DPS who does about the same DPS as I do when I queue as DPS. 2 DPS with higher than average DPS just melts everything. It's been like playing in premades.

I started noticing this in one of the recent patches. At first I thought it was coincidence, but it has happened every run when I'm DPS. I now do ~50-60% of the DPS when I used to do ~90%.

If this is indeed a new matchmaking algorithm to put similar players together then I hope it doesn't change bc using GF as DPS is no longer dreadful.

El_Borracho

CrashTest wrote: »

RageKing wrote: »

Let people with crap playstyle be grouped together PLEASE. let them understand what its like to play with them. They arent punished in game at all for such low dps.
Please for the love of god add a que that requires a certain difficult ingame achivement related to that role your attempting to que as. Let the casuals play with eachother and let us more serious player do the same.

Funny you should mention that bc I've been noticing that GF is pairing me with a DPS who does about the same DPS as I do when I queue as DPS. 2 DPS with higher than average DPS just melts everything. It's been like playing in premades.

I started noticing this in one of the recent patches. At first I thought it was coincidence, but it has happened every run when I'm DPS. I now do ~50-60% of the DPS when I used to do ~90%.

If this is indeed a new matchmaking algorithm to put similar players together then I hope it doesn't change bc using GF as DPS is no longer dreadful.

I think you're just getting lucky. I usually run DPS (only have the one tank) and its a grab bag.

Kurat

This is why I fake tank. Not because I wanna skip the line or be an a hole but because every time I'm real tank i get 5k dps. Even if I'm doing daily random with my real tank i have to change gear to dps so I can "fake" tank. And I always end up doing at least 50% of dps while still tanking.
And the funny thing is that some of these salty pugs try to kick me when they see that my hp is 22k lol. People dont even realize that they are being carried.

Vevvev

And this is why I play a "healer". And by a healer I mean a DPS with Spell Power Cure slotted and Energy Orb. If the DPS are fake I'll be able to make them deal a little more damage while I deal the damage that needs to be done, and if they are not well... Now they will be pulling even better damage numbers!

Drdeath20

Regardless of the group makeup its always worth a try. Usually by the 2nd or 3rd trash mob you will know if the group is worth sticking around.

LalMirchi

After yesterday's dungeon runs I came to the same insight and upped the damage on my tanks and healers.

Made it faster today.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Shantu wrote: »

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.

This is the approach of most players in this game. Using the DF will get you groups that represent what the player base is like. Don't blame players. Most want to login and have a little fun in their free time...not take on a second job of theory crafting and endless hours of practicing a weaving rotation. This situation was created by the combat system and the grouping system ZOS created, not players considered too lazy to learn.

If the DF system frustrates you, then invest whatever time it takes to put together your own group. Seriously, the extra time it takes will be worth the frustration avoided. If you've been around for even a short time, it should be pretty clear by now that complaining about it will get you nowhere.

Log in and have a little fun, you say? How is it fun if your dps is so woeful that you can't complete the content you're signing up for? That's what I don't understand. Normal is a perfectly acceptable alternative that yields all the same results save a monster helm. Why queue for veteran content if you're just not ready? As for treating it like a second job, theory crafting, etc. Nonsense. I know some very capable players who don't use rotations or meta builds at all, and still produce more than sufficient damage to complete veteran dungeons simply by basic knowledge of how damage works in eso and knowledge of mechanics. There is no excuse for showing up to vet content being that unprepared.

Starlock

Eh, it's the bane and blessing of group finder. Sometimes they are a lot of fun, sometimes they aren't.

I mostly tank in dungeons, and on vet I won't bring anything other than my tank proper. I did that for the first dungeon run this event, and two of the players frankly had no business being in a veteran instance. I say that as someone who doesn't exactly have high expectations. I was patient and stuck with them in spite of knowing full well a completion wasn't likely. I should have bailed the instant I noticed we were missing not just one, but two of the roles of the trinity - our healer wasn't healing (so I as the tank was the main healer somehow) and only one of the DPS was moderately competent. An hour later and finally reaching the last boss, when one of the unprepared players put in chat some instructions to do the hardmode mechanics, I just... after two wipes with the DDs dropping like flies I just.... I bailed and didn't at all feel bad about it.

Tsar_Gekkou

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.

You can literally use 2 dots and spam light attacks and do decent damage for a pug dungeon.

MentalxHammer

Everyone cries about the fake tanks and fake healers, but the real issue is the fake dps'. Get good and stop using proc sets in pve

luen79rwb17_ESO

Fake tank and fake heals are a consequence of the hugely abundant fake DPS. It was about time someone said it!

Coatmagic

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.

You can literally use 2 dots and spam light attacks and do decent damage for a pug dungeon.

Well, some certainly can, but most cannot.
I know people who can squeeze 50k dps out of anything you throw at them,
and then there's me who on any class/build with BiS etc gets the same 5-7k.
Some can and some can't. Some is down to time some is down to caring.
I know my shortcomings. Will never pug a vet and will only pug a normal if I abosolutely have to and only as a tank or healer.
You can't expect the general population to care whether or not you think they are good enough, and as a guild leader I know you can't even expect many to really hear you when you tell em DPS is A LOT of practice and not everyone can do it even with that...

LoneStar2911

Shantu wrote: »

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Dps takes too much research, training, and skill for a game that seems so story-focused. I'll probably never be a good dps because of this. I can't be bothered to learn weaving plus a rotation. Oh well.

This is the approach of most players in this game. Using the DF will get you groups that represent what the player base is like. Don't blame players. Most want to login and have a little fun in their free time...not take on a second job of theory crafting and endless hours of practicing a weaving rotation. This situation was created by the combat system and the grouping system ZOS created, not players considered too lazy to learn.

If the DF system frustrates you, then invest whatever time it takes to put together your own group. Seriously, the extra time it takes will be worth the frustration avoided. If you've been around for even a short time, it should be pretty clear by now that complaining about it will get you nowhere.

I wasn't complaining. I was stating fact and trying to say IDGAF, so if a tank wants to complain about my dps... okay, bye. It's just a game. Shouldn't have to put so much effort into it to DPS. I'm totally okay with whoever I get grouped with in PUGS. It's a PUG. Can't be picky.

zaria

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every dd I saw in a vet dungeon with a resto staff, lol.

Who baffles me as in that case why not queue as healer and get an shorter queue.
And as an healer its annoying as you want to balance the dps, heal and buff output. In an strong group in easy dungeons I tend to just go DD / off heal with some emergency heals.

sevomd69

Yeah i was in a FG2 on my healer... on normal... and I was patient...I even explained why they shouldn't be killing the adds on the boss b4 the dreugh king...but then it took like 5 minutes to kill that boss...and I had to leave...