Improving On ESO S01E03) Small Scale PVP And Arena Also A Voting Poll

Heromofo · May 2015

☆Introduction

We all enjoy pvp from the simple 1v1 to the avava style of elder scrolls online that it has now. But there needs to be more options not just to help with lag as i am sure that will be sorted to a degree at one point. But because not everyone enjoys the large scale battles. So i have some thoughts on how this could be done please let me know what you think and your own ideas as well.

☆ Season 1

Spoiler

Season 1 starts here:
S01E01
Player Housing And Guild Hall Ideas
S01E02
Companion Ideas
S01E03
Small Scale PVP
S01E04
Subscription And The Crown store
S01E05
Auction House,Phone App And Account Wide Stats
S01E06 Bonus Round
A Video From A Fan

☆ Season 2

Spoiler

Season 2 starts here
S02E01
Gambling,Quick Swapping For Consoles And Mini Games
S02E02
Elder Scrolls Lore Friendly Holidays,Hit Feedback And Npc Idle chat/Motions
S02E03
A New Mobile Forum, Treasure Maps And Cross faction LFG
S02E04
Racial Passives,Flying mounts, First Person Riding And Mounted Combat
S02E05
Naval Combat,Underwater Diving And Treasure Hunting Concept

☆ Season 3

Spoiler

Season 3 starts here
S03E01
Parkour In ESO, Prisons In ESO, Pc-Console And Vice Versa And A Bloodier ESO
S03E02
Over-Encumbrance,Tweaks to the LFG And Small Life Changes
S03E03
Transmorgrifier, Summon A Vendor For ESO Subscribers And Children
S03E04
Underbelly Of ESO,Pet Accessories And A Need To Rest
S03E05
Repeatable Content,Daily Rewards And Solo Content

☆ Season 4

Spoiler

S04E01
Skeltons,Armor Damage And Unarmed Combat
S04E02
Loading Screen Makeover,Difficulty Slider And PVE Currency
S04E03
Custom Name Plates,Emblems,Show Titles And Names,Preview Armors And Weapons, Asia And Oceanic Mega Servers And Crafting - Experience
S04E04
Crafting Titles/Titles,Inspecting Players,Connecting Characters,Achivement Slots And World Bosses
S04E05
Festivals,Feminine Armor,Traps/Puzzles And Racial Walking

☆ Season 5

Spoiler

Season 5 starts here
S05E01
Class Specialization,Alchemy Improvements,Hide Armor,Party Assistance And Bigger Armor

☆ Gidorick's Repository Of brillant Ideas

Spoiler

Environmental Concepts:

UI Concepts:

Game Systems:

Player Options & Items and Systems:

Crown Store/ ESO+ Centric Concepts:

Silly odds and ends:

☆ Some Music While You Read

https://youtu.be/4z9TdDCWN7g

☆ 1v1 Better Known As Dueling

Scenario 1. Your friend is telling you that his build works better for a archer type in pvp. He tells you that he could take you down without trying.

What do you do?

Well as it stands all you can do is explain why your way works better.

But imagine if you could throw a flag down infront of him and whisper "prove it"

This could be a really interesting idea for ESO to adopt. It would let us test our skills in a friendly 1v1 and it would also be a great time killer. In world of warcraft we always had people out front of org dueling away. I could spend hours dueling and watching others duels it was a great time killer.

☆ One Version Of Small Scale PVP Also Known As Arena Or Death Match

Aaah the good old friday nights of jumping on wow back in the burning crusade days. Putting on my arena gear and setting up team speak with my mates and jumping into arena. The laughs we had and the anger we felt was brillant.

But mofo you crazy kid how could this work in ESO?

Well i will tell you my Internet reader ZOS can use the old school arena style of oblivion.

Just an example:

A notice pinned in a tavern:
Come one come all to the new Reshran Arena in (Zos sets up location). Test your mettle in the ring and win prizes. But if 1v1 is not enough for you then bring your friends for our new 2v2,3v3 and 4v4 games. Form teams,earn points and spend them at our lovely store.

Quake Con 2014 you guys could use the one for the tourney in the game.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HMzrkRluWbU

☆ Another Small Scale PVP Known As Capture The Flag

"There are many flags out there in the world of nirn but this one is mine!"

Capture the flag is one of the oldest and most loved pvp type games out there.

The goal is simple but getting it done can lead to one hell of a blood bath.

A new pvp lfg is added and you sign up in groups.

2 teams built of 4,6 or 12 people
Once a game is found both teams are teleported to a fortress each.
Both fortresses can be seen from one another.
The fortresses are high in the mountains so dont expect any help.
These pvp modes work much like dungeon instances.

The goal is to defend your flag and steal the enemies flag. There is a respawn timer so be careful. But dont sit still too long as there is a 30 minute timer. So first one to (X) amount of flags win.

☆ Two Other Forms Of Small PVP
1. See S01E01 ZOS .
2. Enforcer phase 2 of justice system make sure you guys do it as it does seem like an interesting idea.

☆ Just An Idea From A Fan
Audigy Wrote :
What ZOS could do is add a premade queue and a solo queue. This would let the solo queue players play amongst their own, while giving the premades a specific type of BG for their size.

☆ Things to think about ZOS
1. A non champion point version for casual players or limit how effective they are in these modes.
2. A way to stop perma stealthing especially for arena and 1v1 by saying after x amount of time you become x amount visible i.e every 5 seconds of stealth you become 20-25 percent more visible and easier to detect or something.

There are always ways around problems just look for them instead of saying "its too hard to add in"

Ehcko · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

I will just copy and paste what I wrote in another thread asking this feature.

I agree we need some more PvP options in general for this game, let alone small scale PvP. A little thing on a personal level I think ZoS would like to know, especially if they plan on making this game more financially successful in the future. But I have been trying desperately to get my close friend to get back into the game after he left awhile back, and even after the game went B2P he still prefers to play GW2 instead just because of its PvP systems... He has told me, that ESO isn't a bad game and he did enjoy it for the most part while he was here, but he has also told me that if ESO adds a small scale PvP system, then he will return to the game. And I'm sure there are many others like him who feel the same way.

Echo_Silence · May 2015

No i would not like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

I like to play in large scale pvp, like when I play pvp I don't play by my self never. I always play in a group. WE have about a 25-30 sized group to play in pvp and we always follow the leader. I find this to be very fun and interesting and even when an enemy comes up and they have a large group it's fun to see who wins when you just see animations going across the screen everyone killing each other. So in my opinion I would rather large scale PVP. The only thing is that in my current campaign EP taken over the whole map and I mean ALL. It's been like this for a few weeks now and It's not fun in that campaign anymore so that's a problem.

@Heromofo

~Echo_Silence

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Echo_Silence wrote: »

I like to play in large scale pvp, like when I play pvp I don't play by my self never. I always play in a group. WE have about a 25-30 sized group to play in pvp and we always follow the leader. I find this to be very fun and interesting and even when an enemy comes up and they have a large group it's fun to see who wins when you just see animations going across the screen everyone killing each other. So in my opinion I would rather large scale PVP. The only thing is that in my current campaign EP taken over the whole map and I mean ALL. It's been like this for a few weeks now and It's not fun in that campaign anymore so that's a problem.

@Heromofo

~Echo_Silence

O o understand i do love the avava but you just proved a point for me as your waiting for the campaign to end or for them to take some back.

Wouldn't you like to be able to take some mates into capture the flag while you wait or maybe teach your mates a personal leason in a good duel?.

Ehcko · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Echo_Silence wrote: »

I like to play in large scale pvp, like when I play pvp I don't play by my self never. I always play in a group. WE have about a 25-30 sized group to play in pvp and we always follow the leader. I find this to be very fun and interesting and even when an enemy comes up and they have a large group it's fun to see who wins when you just see animations going across the screen everyone killing each other. So in my opinion I would rather large scale PVP. The only thing is that in my current campaign EP taken over the whole map and I mean ALL. It's been like this for a few weeks now and It's not fun in that campaign anymore so that's a problem.

@Heromofo

~Echo_Silence

Though the good side to those who don't like small scale PvP is they aren't forced to participate in it.

It's mostly just offering another kind of outlet for those who favor the PvP aspects of MMOs. Also it would help lower high populations in Cyrodiil, which means better performance and something else for players to do while they wait for ques to get into Cyrodiil.

cazlonb16_ESO · May 2015

Small scale PvP will not "save ESO", or have any meaningful impact.

Just look at GW2, ArenaNet designed an entire game mode for that and poured all their heart into it. Players still barely noticed and it certainly isn't the reason for the game's success.

Now consider how many resources Zenimax could realistically throw at small scale PvP...Even if there wasn't a mile long backlog of other things promised.

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Small scale PvP will not "save ESO", or have any meaningful impact.

Just look at GW2, ArenaNet designed an entire game mode for that and poured all their heart into it. Players still barely noticed and it certainly isn't the reason for the game's success.

Now consider how many resources Zenimax could realistically throw at small scale PvP...Even if there wasn't a mile long backlog of other things promised.

It's ok bud everyone can have an opinion and i choose to believe that this will go a long way to helping eso even if it is just dueling brought in.

Loves_guars · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

I'd like capture the flag or similars.

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I'd like capture the flag or similars.

I believe capture the flag based on my idea would work well for eso.

Stamina builds can run
Magicka builds will be good defenders and trap artists
Health builds like tanks can become tanks on the field to carry the flag

I could on but you see my point.

Araxleon · May 2015

Game has slowing gone away from dueling odly enough... Fights have felt unbalanced and unfair though changes *are good* for group idk. They would need to revamp certain things, as someone that duels and is part of that *community* in a sense. 1.5 actually have better dueling/counters to things compared to 1.6.

Audigy · May 2015

No i would not like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

I have not yet seen an MMO where small scale pvp actually worked, only exception is Vanilla WOW pre cross realm.

The issue with small scale pvp always comes down to one simple thing, so simple that its actually huge - premades vs. pugs. I was playing in Vanilla WOW and had a guild, we did tournaments and show matches in TV. This was fun and hey, who doesn't like to win a new graphics card or spend a weekend in LA?

The point however is, that type of competition we seldom had on our server. We were unbeaten for about 3 months at AB and something like 2 and a half at WSG. Two out of 10 games were even matches, mostly against raid squads, but the rest? They were so boring and one sided that we had no joy and more than often just lit a campfire and everyone came to dance while someone just capped three flags.

Blizzard obviously wasn't happy with it and introduced Arena. Arena however, requires a premade to actually join - which is the whole point of saving themselves troubles of unhappy pugs... These pugs are now excluded from competitive pvp, so that the whole pvp scene has shrinked to an almost non existent state. Show me a big games event where WOW is a part, its just not there and it isn't because nobody plays it on live servers as the accessibility isn't there.

GW2, SWTOR have the same problems - the so called "solo queue" never came.

My fear with small scale pvp at ESO is that ZOS will as well walk the easy path and exclude everyone from pvp who doesn't have a premade or they let premades meet pugs, which is equally worse. ZOS unfortunately has a talent to alienate non premade players and adding such a small scale pvp system would make a bad situation even worse.
I am sorry to say, but with the last year and the focus on only premade content, I hope they will not turn the last solo and pug friendly thing at ESO also into a "group or die" competition.

Loves_guars · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

@Audigy I agree with what you say about premades vs pugs... there should be a way to avoid it. But also, I run against groups ganking solo players in Cyrodiil all the time, so the problem for me was always there.

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Audigy wrote: »

I have not yet seen an MMO where small scale pvp actually worked, only exception is Vanilla WOW pre cross realm.

The issue with small scale pvp always comes down to one simple thing, so simple that its actually huge - premades vs. pugs. I was playing in Vanilla WOW and had a guild, we did tournaments and show matches in TV. This was fun and hey, who doesn't like to win a new graphics card or spend a weekend in LA?

The point however is, that type of competition we seldom had on our server. We were unbeaten for about 3 months at AB and something like 2 and a half at WSG. Two out of 10 games were even matches, mostly against raid squads, but the rest? They were so boring and one sided that we had no joy and more than often just lit a campfire and everyone came to dance while someone just capped three flags.

Blizzard obviously wasn't happy with it and introduced Arena. Arena however, requires a premade to actually join - which is the whole point of saving themselves troubles of unhappy pugs... These pugs are now excluded from competitive pvp, so that the whole pvp scene has shrinked to an almost non existent state. Show me a big games event where WOW is a part, its just not there and it isn't because nobody plays it on live servers as the accessibility isn't there.

GW2, SWTOR have the same problems - the so called "solo queue" never came.

My fear with small scale pvp at ESO is that ZOS will as well walk the easy path and exclude everyone from pvp who doesn't have a premade or they let premades meet pugs, which is equally worse. ZOS unfortunately has a talent to alienate non premade players and adding such a small scale pvp system would make a bad situation even worse.

I agree to a point with ya i come from a more shooter side and i love versing premades. Me and my brother and pugs verses a team of premades is the best experience for us. Your challenged and must bring your a game also i love it on games like cod where they will taunt ya pre game. Then when they lose you can hear crickets in the background its that quite but yes i understand. Not everyone wants that kind of challenge but i tell ya i have seen some people that can turn the tide of a game by themselves.

Araxleon · May 2015

arena with balances and match making would be good ;P matching people based on CP level and ingame level.

Like dark souls 2 soul memory *if anyone knows what that is*

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Araxleon wrote: »

arena with balances and match making would be good ;P matching people with close levels togather.

Id prefer the ranking of said team is what is used to match people up and down the ladder.

Audigy · May 2015

No i would not like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

@Audigy I agree with what you say about premades vs pugs... there should be a way to avoid it. But also, I run against groups ganking solo players in Cyrodiil all the time, so the problem for me was always there.

That's definitely true. But, at least for me if a group comes and kills me, then I can just go somewhere else. In a BG however, I must play the sitting duck for 10 or 15 minutes until the game is over, knowing I can not win / be just cannon fodder and I would assume this is exactly how many would feel then.

Heromofo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Audigy wrote: »

I have not yet seen an MMO where small scale pvp actually worked, only exception is Vanilla WOW pre cross realm.

The issue with small scale pvp always comes down to one simple thing, so simple that its actually huge - premades vs. pugs. I was playing in Vanilla WOW and had a guild, we did tournaments and show matches in TV. This was fun and hey, who doesn't like to win a new graphics card or spend a weekend in LA?

The point however is, that type of competition we seldom had on our server. We were unbeaten for about 3 months at AB and something like 2 and a half at WSG. Two out of 10 games were even matches, mostly against raid squads, but the rest? They were so boring and one sided that we had no joy and more than often just lit a campfire and everyone came to dance while someone just capped three flags.

Blizzard obviously wasn't happy with it and introduced Arena. Arena however, requires a premade to actually join - which is the whole point of saving themselves troubles of unhappy pugs... These pugs are now excluded from competitive pvp, so that the whole pvp scene has shrinked to an almost non existent state. Show me a big games event where WOW is a part, its just not there and it isn't because nobody plays it on live servers as the accessibility isn't there.

GW2, SWTOR have the same problems - the so called "solo queue" never came.

My fear with small scale pvp at ESO is that ZOS will as well walk the easy path and exclude everyone from pvp who doesn't have a premade or they let premades meet pugs, which is equally worse. ZOS unfortunately has a talent to alienate non premade players and adding such a small scale pvp system would make a bad situation even worse.

I agree to a point with ya i come from a more shooter side and i love versing premades. Me and my brother and pugs verses a team of premades is the best experience for us. Your challenged and must bring your a game also i love it on games like cod where they will taunt ya pre game. Then when they lose you can hear crickets in the background its that quite but yes i understand. Not everyone wants that kind of challenge but i tell ya i have seen some people that can turn the tide of a game by themselves.

I remember some of these matches as well, when we didn't play in group but pugged, a few friends and me tried to lift the quality of those pugs so that they could win and one game I still remember even after 10 years, as it was against a BWL raid group with superior gear and a foe of our guild, so yes, I am with you it can be great fun, being the underdog and winning such tough battles.

That said, the times this happens are quite rare and as you said correctly, not everyone has a more "professional" background to see a challenge in this, but more a frustrating circumstance with no way out.

A system would require a almost perfect match making and there the whole issues start to appear. How will duo and triple queues be handled, what about a 5 men premade in a 10 men Arena etc.? Its really tough and no gaming studio ever invested resources in a working system that is really fair for everyone. Its either all together or only full teams.

kevlarto_ESO · May 2015

No i would not like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

No, would be a waste of the dev's time and not do anything but bring more headaches to the game, people seem to not understand how much pre-mades can ruin small scale pvp, along with other problems you think the cry for nerfs are bad now, with small scale pvp, you would really be able to see how poorly the classes are balanced, and the forums would be loaded with nerf this or that far more than they are now.

Small scale pvp is not in any way some game saving move for ZOS, and I hope the never open that can of worms, their resources would be much better spent on improving what they have now and adding new things new things to the game, at least this is my opinion many might disagree but oh well that's life.

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Audigy wrote: »

show previous quotes

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

@Audigy I agree with what you say about premades vs pugs... there should be a way to avoid it. But also, I run against groups ganking solo players in Cyrodiil all the time, so the problem for me was always there.

That's definitely true. But, at least for me if a group comes and kills me, then I can just go somewhere else. In a BG however, I must play the sitting duck for 10 or 15 minutes until the game is over, knowing I can not win / be just cannon fodder and I would assume this is exactly how many would feel then.
show previous quotes

Heromofo wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I have not yet seen an MMO where small scale pvp actually worked, only exception is Vanilla WOW pre cross realm.

The issue with small scale pvp always comes down to one simple thing, so simple that its actually huge - premades vs. pugs. I was playing in Vanilla WOW and had a guild, we did tournaments and show matches in TV. This was fun and hey, who doesn't like to win a new graphics card or spend a weekend in LA?

The point however is, that type of competition we seldom had on our server. We were unbeaten for about 3 months at AB and something like 2 and a half at WSG. Two out of 10 games were even matches, mostly against raid squads, but the rest? They were so boring and one sided that we had no joy and more than often just lit a campfire and everyone came to dance while someone just capped three flags.

Blizzard obviously wasn't happy with it and introduced Arena. Arena however, requires a premade to actually join - which is the whole point of saving themselves troubles of unhappy pugs... These pugs are now excluded from competitive pvp, so that the whole pvp scene has shrinked to an almost non existent state. Show me a big games event where WOW is a part, its just not there and it isn't because nobody plays it on live servers as the accessibility isn't there.

GW2, SWTOR have the same problems - the so called "solo queue" never came.

My fear with small scale pvp at ESO is that ZOS will as well walk the easy path and exclude everyone from pvp who doesn't have a premade or they let premades meet pugs, which is equally worse. ZOS unfortunately has a talent to alienate non premade players and adding such a small scale pvp system would make a bad situation even worse.

I agree to a point with ya i come from a more shooter side and i love versing premades. Me and my brother and pugs verses a team of premades is the best experience for us. Your challenged and must bring your a game also i love it on games like cod where they will taunt ya pre game. Then when they lose you can hear crickets in the background its that quite but yes i understand. Not everyone wants that kind of challenge but i tell ya i have seen some people that can turn the tide of a game by themselves.

I remember some of these matches as well, when we didn't play in group but pugged, a few friends and me tried to lift the quality of those pugs so that they could win and one game I still remember even after 10 years, as it was against a BWL raid group with superior gear and a foe of our guild, so yes, I am with you it can be great fun, being the underdog and winning such tough battles.

That said, the times this happens are quite rare and as you said correctly, not everyone has a more "professional" background to see a challenge in this, but more a frustrating circumstance with no way out.

A system would require a almost perfect match making and there the whole issues start to appear. How will duo and triple queues be handled, what about a 5 men premade in a 10 men Arena etc.? Its really tough and no gaming studio ever invested resources in a working system that is really fair for everyone. Its either all together or only full teams.

Yeah i see your point but that shouldn't stop people from wanting to become better.
Also with any luck they could use a system to do its best to pin premade v premade.
Or as close as possible so say you and 2 friends go into capture the flag in the lfg the it will first search for other groups that are premades to pair with or against.

So a game could end up

6 man premade vs 2 premade 3 premade and 1 pug

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

No, would be a waste of the dev's time and not do anything but bring more headaches to the game, people seem to not understand how much pre-mades can ruin small scale pvp, along with other problems you think the cry for nerfs are bad now, with small scale pvp, you would really be able to see how poorly the classes are balanced, and the forums would be loaded with nerf this or that far more than they are now.

Small scale pvp is not in any way some game saving move for ZOS, and I hope the never open that can of worms, their resources would be much better spent on improving what they have now and adding new things new things to the game, at least this is my opinion many might disagree but oh well that's life.

Does not matter if someone disagrees with ya mate this is my thread all are welcome to express themselves because there is no such thing as bad feedback.

Pre mades already plague avava
But i believe in small scale pvp premades can talk to each other and sort groups but it still needs skill to make it work.
Also i have seen people turn the scales with one character in a premade v pug.
You could have a 6v6 and your side is full of pugs but it does not mean you cannot win.

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Requesting PVPer Feedback

I am still looking for 5-10 full time pvpers to give some feedback on the pvp side of part 1.
The link is in the top part of the thread also a pre thanks as feedback is key.

Audigy · May 2015

No i would not like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Heromofo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Audigy wrote: »

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

@Audigy I agree with what you say about premades vs pugs... there should be a way to avoid it. But also, I run against groups ganking solo players in Cyrodiil all the time, so the problem for me was always there.

That's definitely true. But, at least for me if a group comes and kills me, then I can just go somewhere else. In a BG however, I must play the sitting duck for 10 or 15 minutes until the game is over, knowing I can not win / be just cannon fodder and I would assume this is exactly how many would feel then.

Heromofo wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I have not yet seen an MMO where small scale pvp actually worked, only exception is Vanilla WOW pre cross realm.

The issue with small scale pvp always comes down to one simple thing, so simple that its actually huge - premades vs. pugs. I was playing in Vanilla WOW and had a guild, we did tournaments and show matches in TV. This was fun and hey, who doesn't like to win a new graphics card or spend a weekend in LA?

The point however is, that type of competition we seldom had on our server. We were unbeaten for about 3 months at AB and something like 2 and a half at WSG. Two out of 10 games were even matches, mostly against raid squads, but the rest? They were so boring and one sided that we had no joy and more than often just lit a campfire and everyone came to dance while someone just capped three flags.

Blizzard obviously wasn't happy with it and introduced Arena. Arena however, requires a premade to actually join - which is the whole point of saving themselves troubles of unhappy pugs... These pugs are now excluded from competitive pvp, so that the whole pvp scene has shrinked to an almost non existent state. Show me a big games event where WOW is a part, its just not there and it isn't because nobody plays it on live servers as the accessibility isn't there.

GW2, SWTOR have the same problems - the so called "solo queue" never came.

My fear with small scale pvp at ESO is that ZOS will as well walk the easy path and exclude everyone from pvp who doesn't have a premade or they let premades meet pugs, which is equally worse. ZOS unfortunately has a talent to alienate non premade players and adding such a small scale pvp system would make a bad situation even worse.

I agree to a point with ya i come from a more shooter side and i love versing premades. Me and my brother and pugs verses a team of premades is the best experience for us. Your challenged and must bring your a game also i love it on games like cod where they will taunt ya pre game. Then when they lose you can hear crickets in the background its that quite but yes i understand. Not everyone wants that kind of challenge but i tell ya i have seen some people that can turn the tide of a game by themselves.

I remember some of these matches as well, when we didn't play in group but pugged, a few friends and me tried to lift the quality of those pugs so that they could win and one game I still remember even after 10 years, as it was against a BWL raid group with superior gear and a foe of our guild, so yes, I am with you it can be great fun, being the underdog and winning such tough battles.

That said, the times this happens are quite rare and as you said correctly, not everyone has a more "professional" background to see a challenge in this, but more a frustrating circumstance with no way out.

A system would require a almost perfect match making and there the whole issues start to appear. How will duo and triple queues be handled, what about a 5 men premade in a 10 men Arena etc.? Its really tough and no gaming studio ever invested resources in a working system that is really fair for everyone. Its either all together or only full teams.

Yeah i see your point but that shouldn't stop people from wanting to become better.
Also with any luck they could use a system to do its best to pin premade v premade.
Or as close as possible so say you and 2 friends go into capture the flag in the lfg the it will first search for other groups that are premades to pair with or against.

So a game could end up

6 man premade vs 2 premade 3 premade and 1 pug

I do Alpha test a game with such a system. Let me say it works not perfect.

The situation often is that the premades inside the premade don't sit on the same TS as the other "single" premade. What I also saw is that many premades will blame the pug if something goes wrong, don't share their tactics with the lone wolf etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like your ideas I just didn't see them work out well yet in other games.

What ZOS could do is add a premade queue and a solo queue. This would let the solo queue players play amongst their own, while giving the premades a specific type of BG for their size.

So full 5 men deathmatch or 4 or 3 or even duo. With a CTF or objective based design this would obviously be much harder to do though.

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Audigy wrote: »

show previous quotes

Heromofo wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

@Audigy I agree with what you say about premades vs pugs... there should be a way to avoid it. But also, I run against groups ganking solo players in Cyrodiil all the time, so the problem for me was always there.

That's definitely true. But, at least for me if a group comes and kills me, then I can just go somewhere else. In a BG however, I must play the sitting duck for 10 or 15 minutes until the game is over, knowing I can not win / be just cannon fodder and I would assume this is exactly how many would feel then.

Heromofo wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I have not yet seen an MMO where small scale pvp actually worked, only exception is Vanilla WOW pre cross realm.

The issue with small scale pvp always comes down to one simple thing, so simple that its actually huge - premades vs. pugs. I was playing in Vanilla WOW and had a guild, we did tournaments and show matches in TV. This was fun and hey, who doesn't like to win a new graphics card or spend a weekend in LA?

The point however is, that type of competition we seldom had on our server. We were unbeaten for about 3 months at AB and something like 2 and a half at WSG. Two out of 10 games were even matches, mostly against raid squads, but the rest? They were so boring and one sided that we had no joy and more than often just lit a campfire and everyone came to dance while someone just capped three flags.

Blizzard obviously wasn't happy with it and introduced Arena. Arena however, requires a premade to actually join - which is the whole point of saving themselves troubles of unhappy pugs... These pugs are now excluded from competitive pvp, so that the whole pvp scene has shrinked to an almost non existent state. Show me a big games event where WOW is a part, its just not there and it isn't because nobody plays it on live servers as the accessibility isn't there.

GW2, SWTOR have the same problems - the so called "solo queue" never came.

My fear with small scale pvp at ESO is that ZOS will as well walk the easy path and exclude everyone from pvp who doesn't have a premade or they let premades meet pugs, which is equally worse. ZOS unfortunately has a talent to alienate non premade players and adding such a small scale pvp system would make a bad situation even worse.

I agree to a point with ya i come from a more shooter side and i love versing premades. Me and my brother and pugs verses a team of premades is the best experience for us. Your challenged and must bring your a game also i love it on games like cod where they will taunt ya pre game. Then when they lose you can hear crickets in the background its that quite but yes i understand. Not everyone wants that kind of challenge but i tell ya i have seen some people that can turn the tide of a game by themselves.

I remember some of these matches as well, when we didn't play in group but pugged, a few friends and me tried to lift the quality of those pugs so that they could win and one game I still remember even after 10 years, as it was against a BWL raid group with superior gear and a foe of our guild, so yes, I am with you it can be great fun, being the underdog and winning such tough battles.

That said, the times this happens are quite rare and as you said correctly, not everyone has a more "professional" background to see a challenge in this, but more a frustrating circumstance with no way out.

A system would require a almost perfect match making and there the whole issues start to appear. How will duo and triple queues be handled, what about a 5 men premade in a 10 men Arena etc.? Its really tough and no gaming studio ever invested resources in a working system that is really fair for everyone. Its either all together or only full teams.

Yeah i see your point but that shouldn't stop people from wanting to become better.
Also with any luck they could use a system to do its best to pin premade v premade.
Or as close as possible so say you and 2 friends go into capture the flag in the lfg the it will first search for other groups that are premades to pair with or against.

So a game could end up

6 man premade vs 2 premade 3 premade and 1 pug

I do Alpha test a game with such a system. Let me say it works not perfect.

The situation often is that the premades inside the premade don't sit on the same TS as the other "single" premade. What I also saw is that many premades will blame the pug if something goes wrong, don't share their tactics with the lone wolf etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like your ideas I just didn't see them work out well yet in other games. What ZOS could do is add a premade queue and a solo queue. This would let the solo queue players play amongst their own, while giving the premades a specific type of BG for their size.

So full 5 men deathmatch or 4 or 3 or even duo. With a CTF or objective based design this would obviously be much harder to do though.

Simple yet brillant solution

Mmmm i will add that and give you credit for that.

Edit: it has now been added also bud if you look a few posts up i could use your opinion on the other parts of my threads.

@Audigy

Calluna · May 2015

No i would not like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

This is content that I would never play so I would rather they spent their time developing guild and personal housing, FIXING the current issues with large scale PVP, and adding new solo or duo pve content. I know I am being selfish but they obviously have a limited number of devs and have to pick and choose what they spend time on.

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

Calluna wrote: »

This is content that I would never play so I would rather they spent their time developing guild and personal housing, FIXING the current issues with large scale PVP, and adding new solo or duo pve content. I know I am being selfish but they obviously have a limited number of devs and have to pick and choose what they spend time on.

O trust me i want playing housing / guild halls above anything else.

Have you seen part 1) ? mate the link is at the top.
@Calluna

But all sides have to be covered atm i feel bad for our pvp brothers.

Tandor · May 2015

Other ( I Have a different thought on this) (Explain Below)

I don't mind at all what extra forms of PvP are introduced, as long as they are located in Cyrodil or separate instances. I have no interest in PvP and don't wish to see it in the open world. I also don't want it to influence or dictate the balancing of skills etc in PvE.

The fact that I have no interest in PvP doesn't mean that I would like it to have a lower priority for development time than the things I am interested in. I'm all for catering to all tastes and playstyles, so I'm perfectly happy with PvP being given its share of development time. I just don't want PvP intruding on the PvE content, it should be separate.

HeroOfNone · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

I would like to see small scaled structured pvp with tiers that can be used for gaming leagues and that would be a bit more interesting than the 1v20 zerg fights we seem to have. I believe it should be separate from cyrodiil and not count for AP, or at least not on emperor leaderboards, to prevent farming snd yo it has its own leader boards.

You can read more details in my prior book of a post, Suggestion (PVP 4x4 - 24x24x24 Battlegrounds) ESO Arenas; Be a Daedric or Aedric Champion

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I would like to see small scaled structured pvp with tiers that can be used for gaming leagues and that would be a bit more interesting than the 1v20 zerg fights we seem to have. I believe it should be separate from cyrodiil and not count for AP, or at least not on emperor leaderboards, to prevent farming snd yo it has its own leader boards.

You can read more details in my prior book of a post, Suggestion (PVP 4x4 - 24x24x24 Battlegrounds) ESO Arenas; Be a Daedric or Aedric Champion

That was a brillant read mate bloody well done.
I have added it to the front page.

+10 from Heromofo

Emma_Overload · May 2015

1v1 dueling (like the OP described) would be so awesome I suspect many new players would buy ESO just to try it!

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

Other ( I Have a different thought on this) (Explain Below)

Maybe just break Cyrodil into smaller parts like a 30 min to 1 hour battle that people can request or queue into with a min and max number of players.
Or
Daily instead of an hour or weekly.

I'm not wanting WoW type PvP because I like Cyrodil but due to the lag, players on different alliances and size, maybe it makes sense to look at something slightly different but the same

Heromofo · May 2015

Yes i would like to see small scale pvp (Explain Below)

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Maybe just break Cyrodil into smaller parts like a 30 min to 1 hour battle that people can request or queue into with a min and max number of players.
Or
Daily instead of an hour or weekly.

I'm not wanting WoW type PvP because I like Cyrodil but due to the lag, players on different alliances and size, maybe it makes sense to look at something slightly different but the same

I believe they could put a elder scrolls spin on any wow type pvp and it would still be unreal.
But yeah these are just ideas i am sure if they went this path they would have a different approach on it.

UrQuan · May 2015

Well, I'm not going to vote on this poll because I'm really not a PVP player, and so any vote that I gave would therefore be horribly uninformed. I'll leave it to the PVPers to vote on what they think is good for PVP.

I will say that I am firmly of the opinion that the PVP crowd needs some attention. Aside from balancing issues, there really hasn't been a whole heck of a lot done for PVP since release.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Improving On ESO S01E03) Small Scale PVP And Arena Also A Voting Poll

Improving On ESO S01E03) Small Scale PVP And Arena Also A Voting Poll 97 votes