Zoning logic

Gidorick

Many of the Zone borders of ESO are specific paths and actual gates that the player must pass through. This restricts the player to one specific path that all players will take to go from one zone to another. There are, however, times the zone border is much wider than this.

Once such Zone border is the border between Stormhaven and Bangkorai. I have passed over the bridge before but this time I decided to see if I could swim from one zone to another and I was surprised to find myself teleported to the assumed pathway of the bridge.



Here is another one that makes NO sense!

This one actually frustrated me because I was actually traveling along the shore of one zone... and was teleported BEHIND me, away from the direction I was traveling, across the bay, into a different zone.

It would be nice if ZOS could, at some point, update zoning logic to consider the position of the player when the zone boarder is more than a gate or a mountain pass.

This is very low on the list of "important things" for sure.... but honestly, at some point these little things need to be address or they will never get fixed (which is pretty much the assumption. ).

Are there any other zone boarders that have this sort of issue?

SanderBuraas

Sure, I definitely see this as an possible improvement. This change would simply contribute more to the open world factor.

Fi'yra

I'd definitely like to see this happen.

+ Noting; your picture isn't working ^^

Gidorick

Not to mention that if they figure out how to do this and actually implement it they could open up the boarders some. I don't mind load screens but the un-passable mountains surrounding each zone makes me feel trapped sometimes. lol.

Gidorick

Fi'yra wrote: »

I'd definitely like to see this happen.

+ Noting; your picture isn't working ^^

really? Can you see it if you use the below link?

http://i.imgur.com/Q0jEnMG.jpg?1

EDIT: Changed link to IMGUR link

I've been using this new site because photobucket is junk and that is what I WAS using.

Fi'yra

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

Fi'yra wrote: »

I'd definitely like to see this happen.

+ Noting; your picture isn't working ^^

really? Can you see it if you use the below link?

Nope, doesn't work for me.
Although the link does, so I'd suggest switching with it or use -
http://imgur.com/

Gidorick

Fi'yra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gidorick wrote: »

Fi'yra wrote: »

I'd definitely like to see this happen.

+ Noting; your picture isn't working ^^

really? Can you see it if you use the below link?

Nope, doesn't work for me.
Although the link does, so I'd suggest switching with it or use -
http://imgur.com/

Thanks. How about now?

Lordstarfox

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

Fi'yra wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Fi'yra wrote: »

I'd definitely like to see this happen.

+ Noting; your picture isn't working ^^

really? Can you see it if you use the below link?

Nope, doesn't work for me.
Although the link does, so I'd suggest switching with it or use -
http://imgur.com/

Thanks. How about now?

that works.

Gidorick

Lordstarfox wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gidorick wrote: »

Fi'yra wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Fi'yra wrote: »

I'd definitely like to see this happen.

+ Noting; your picture isn't working ^^

really? Can you see it if you use the below link?

Nope, doesn't work for me.
Although the link does, so I'd suggest switching with it or use -
http://imgur.com/

Thanks. How about now?

that works.

Thanks for the help!

Tapio75

I actually hate the fact that they force us to use these gates to go from zone to another and also have loading screen there..

I wish that some day, Tamriel will be similar to Azeroth so that player can just start from one part of Tamriel.. Say in Windhelm.. Or Winterhold, then start traveling all across the land, finally arriving to Wayrest or Auridon for example..

This without loading screens and also with players from all factions, then this game would actually starting to feel real TES in ways of exploring and character interaction... I mean this is a world where people should be able to choose their own allegiances or be sell swords or just plain adventurers, traveling all Tamriel, looking for tresures with group of people they meet on the way and decide to stick together, no matter what "Faction"" they are in..

Kragorn

I find it interesting that the MMO most non-players-of-it deride, WOW, has had a loading-screen-free over-world (at least on each continent) forever yet games designed 10 years later can't do this, and the size of each contient in Azeroth is easily far larger than any of the faction areas in ESO and likely larger than them all combined; the one time you get one in WOW of course is flying/sailing from one continent to the other.

LOTRO is another one where you can run for literally hours from the Shire to Gondor and not see one.

LMar

I appreciate your picture collage. Very amusing I also would like non-loading screens but most of the time they don't bother me. I am wondering how wayshrines would work without one and the possibilities are cool. Also I am used to them from previous ES games where loading screens between cities,houses, environment are normal. Even morrowind had loading cells back then

Tapio75

Some loading screens can be removed.. At least one comes to mind in Khenarthis roost.. The place you first arrive there when starting the game, that small partially ruin battlement where you meet Razum-Dar for the first time, used to have loading screens , now it is part of the outer world without loading screens.. Still, even back then, you could climb to the towwer there and drop out without getting loading screens.. There are few similar places all around Tamriel..

I am pretty sure that in Beta, i was attempting to jump across that stupid wall between Deshaan and Shadowfen and got lucky with succesful long jump and ended up on another side of that barrier... Im not sure but i think i could just continue running to Shadowfen without loading screens.. Might be that i remember wrong but still..

One reason for loading screens in the buildings is, that many of them are actually under ground... I dont know why this is made so, sounds pretty stupid. But they are according to some quest pointers which are on the level with buildings door but above you when inside the house..

Lately, i have been experiencing odd loading screens even in Daggerfall city and other places as well where they are not existed before, wonder what that is all about..

Syntse

I can see some slaughter fish infestation in those waters in near future.

Kragorn

Tapio75 wrote: »

Lately, i have been experiencing odd loading screens even in Daggerfall city and other places as well where they are not existed before, wonder what that is all about..

This is something that's been possible since release but only rarely seen.

The reason for it I think I recall ZOS saying is temporary server overload, possibly when you're moving from one sub-zone server to the next, the loading screen happens because briefly the client stops getting zone info from the server; but not in the same context as lag spikes.

If it's being seen now that would indicate player populations, at least in popular areas is picking up again.

Egonieser

Yeah, it would be nice if the transition between areas would be smoother. I like it how they did it in Lord of the Rings Online, where there are still maps and areas, but you can travel freely between them with no loading times, unless you take quick travels or teleports. However there is a downside to it. Since the zone is not pre-loaded, it loads the surroundings as you move and that contributes to lag spikes and fps drops, especially when doing swift camera turns and fast movements like riding at max speed on a warsteed. Even on high end system like mine and high write speed SSD's, the impact on performance is noticable.
This would be even worse in ESO as it is far more demanding and recent game. But who knows, maybe one day....

Tapio75

Egonieser wrote: »

Yeah, it would be nice if the transition between areas would be smoother. I like it how they did it in Lord of the Rings Online, where there are still maps and areas, but you can travel freely between them with no loading times, unless you take quick travels or teleports. However there is a downside to it. Since the zone is not pre-loaded, it loads the surroundings as you move and that contributes to lag spikes and fps drops, especially when doing swift camera turns and fast movements like riding at max speed on a warsteed. Even on high end system like mine and high write speed SSD's, the impact on performance is noticable.
This would be even worse in ESO as it is far more demanding and recent game. But who knows, maybe one day....

Actually ESO is allready loading the area that surrounds you, not the whole map. By using ESO loader "Addon/mod/loader, you can change how much of the surroundings is loaded to memory.. You can actually extent it to load the whole area you are in and the wiev distance also shows the whole area and all that happens in that area.. Tried that once with extreme values and the FPS was like 0.5 frames in 5 seconds.. But for sure, it looked fantastic as long as you did not move your mouse..

With same Mod/loader, i also experimented with wiev distance on the hill at Shadowfen where you can clearly see the wall in Deshaan... By adding more wiev distance, it popped buildings and stuff like that to the screen.. By extending it enough, even the mountains in the border of Deshaan/Stonefalls could be seen...

In Glenumbra, if you go to Docks at Aldcroft and look to the east, you can also see Adamantite tower/Direnni tower at The Isle of Balfiera on Iliac bay.

Sadly is is disputable if that mod is legit for use or not so i am not using it.. But the point is, that there are ways to make things in other areas that might seem inaccesible to be seen and loaded to memory, even if you cant actually go there since game teleports you to some pre defined place.

KhajitFurTrader

Egonieser wrote: »

I like it how they did it in Lord of the Rings Online, where there are still maps and areas, but you can travel freely between them with no loading times, unless you take quick travels or teleports.

There's still a loading screen between Ered Luin (a.k.a. the Blue Mountains, starting areas for Dwarves and Elves) and the Shire, because the areas in-between (Grey Havens etc.) have never been implemented.

It really boils down to map/world design and, by extension, server architecture. Having separate zones with loading screens in-between them may make things easier in terms of phasing and/or instancing. Remember that every zone has to exist as a regular leveling zone, and then again as a VR zone. Then there's the fact that we're on a "megaserver" architecture, meaning that the potential population number of particular zones can get much higher than on "classic" servers/shards and need to be addressed. Things may change in the future, when new, free-for-all content zones get added. But then again, they may not.

Even WoW isn't seamless in-between continents.

Kragorn

Tapio75 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Egonieser wrote: »

Yeah, it would be nice if the transition between areas would be smoother. I like it how they did it in Lord of the Rings Online, where there are still maps and areas, but you can travel freely between them with no loading times, unless you take quick travels or teleports. However there is a downside to it. Since the zone is not pre-loaded, it loads the surroundings as you move and that contributes to lag spikes and fps drops, especially when doing swift camera turns and fast movements like riding at max speed on a warsteed. Even on high end system like mine and high write speed SSD's, the impact on performance is noticable.
This would be even worse in ESO as it is far more demanding and recent game. But who knows, maybe one day....

Actually ESO is allready loading the area that surrounds you, not the whole map.

There's two different kinds of 'thing' here, static world features which are pre-known to the client and entirely contained in the data files and those that can change state: it's the loading of the latter that causes problems and when the 'in zone' loading screen is seen, ESO's extensive use of phasing means there's a lot more 'real estate' that is variable and so can't be statically loaded directly out of the data files.

Tapio75

Kragorn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tapio75 wrote: »

[

Actually ESO is allready loading the area that surrounds you, not the whole map.

There's two different kinds of 'thing' here, static world features which are pre-known to the client and entirely contained in the data files and those that can change state: it's the loading of the latter that causes problems and when the 'in zone' loading screen is seen, ESO's extensive use of phasing means there's a lot more 'real estate' that is variable and so can't be statically loaded directly out of the data files.

[/quote]

Well it is loading everything that hapens around you plus all the static stuff... Or are you trying to tell that moving stuff like mobs and players are only loaded to your client when you look at them? Yes, the visual is allready in the memory as well as the actual data of what everything is doing and all this could be extended with that same mod i spoke of.

It is clear since i extended the distance i can see, the further i could also see stuff happening.. There was/is two different wiev distance settings in that mod, other for detailed stuff and stuff that happens around you and the static which in this game actually looks quite horrible.

Gidorick

I actually don't mind the loading. It's a game and stopping me to load is expected. What I mind is leaving the Zonein one spot and being loaded on a completely different path where EVERYONE loads.

Merlight

Tapio75 wrote: »

Lately, i have been experiencing odd loading screens even in Daggerfall city and other places as well where they are not existed before, wonder what that is all about..

Haven't checked lately, but a few weeks ago, everytime I logged in a character in Daggerfall and ran to the woodworking station, I got a loading screen upon trying to use it. And once I fell through the floor and landed outside

Tomg999

I always figured the loading screen in busy cities was just a glitchy thing that happens when the download of all that info didn't work right or I didn't have it in memory.

KhajitFurTrader

Gidorick wrote: »

I actually don't mind the loading. It's a game and stopping me to load is expected. What I mind is leaving the Zonein one spot and being loaded on a completely different path where EVERYONE loads.

On zoning/loading, your client "logically connects" to another thread on the server, which handles said zone. There are predefined entry point locations where your character is spawned every time, regardless of where it left the former zone thread. This is actually good sense, since it is less prone to errors and the chances of leaving your character's location in a faulty or undefined state are practically zero.

Zone borders are usually presented as a single visual transition point: a gate, a mountain pass, etc. More often than not you can't see from one zone into the next. This pattern breaks at the border between Stormhaven and Bankorai: you can see the shores of one zone while standing on the shore of the other. But this is an illusion; the areas you are seeing on the other side of the bay aren't actually in the other zone; they're still part of the map/zone you're currently in. If you had a looking glass, you would never see PCs, NPCs, and MOBs running around over there. Trying to get there by swimming will let you run into an invisible wall of "trigger coordinates", which initiate the zoning process. If you were to actually arrive, you'd shortly run through an area devoid of any server-controlled action, and then you'd run out of map. And then Sheogorath turns you into a cheese and eats you.

KhajitFurTrader

Tomg999 wrote: »

I always figured the loading screen in busy cities was just a glitchy thing that happens when the download of all that info didn't work right or I didn't have it in memory.

This could actually mean that your client is switched and connected to another instance/phase thread of the same zone. The server tries to cap and balance the number of concurrent clients (i.e. player characters) within any given instance, in order to reduce a) computational load on any one thread, and b) graphical load on any one client.

Gidorick

This one actually frustrated me because I was actually traveling along the shore of one zone... and was teleported BEHIND me, away from the direction I was traveling, across the bay, into a different zone.

THIS MAKES NO SENSE!

DogFaceInBananaPatch

Gidorick wrote: »

Are there any other zone boarders that have this sort of issue?

Grahtwood to Malabol Tor does this too.

Actually they need to fully eliminate all loading of zones and preload all adjacent zones/interiors so there's no loading screen. Same with all dungeons/delves/inside. Use the door and instantly in/outside. (EDIT: or allow the option to preload all zones nearby for those of us with extremely powerful computers. Having to zone at all is so pre-2004).

Why? And my ONLY reason why is: if I have to resummon my pets and rebuff hundreds, if not a thousand, times a month ***more then I should have to*** I'll go mad. Almost always my pets and buffs go *poof* (gone) [almost] every time I zone. Pathetic they can not let us keep buffs/pets when we zone.

Betahkiin

Do not push your Horse or your boots to 88 miles per hour!

Not the fault of ZOS, all Tamriel hero knows that reach that speed causes a Dragon Break...

Cody

My issue with traveling between zones is that it requires a dang loading screen.

why all the loading screens? is it so hard to remove the gates and the loading screens and let us ride between zones? heck one could do this in WoW years ago.

there are, however, MUCH more important things to deal with in this game atm, so this will have to wait.

Gidorick

Cody wrote: »

My issue with traveling between zones is that it requires a dang loading screen.

why all the loading screens? is it so hard to remove the gates and the loading screens and let us ride between zones? heck one could do this in WoW years ago.

there are, however, MUCH more important things to deal with in this game atm, so this will have to wait.

This is the response I always get from some member of the community. I feel like ESO will never, ever actually grow because:

1: There are lag issues
2: There are balancing issues
3: There are end-game issues
4: They're working on Crown store items.

Heromofo

Just got around to reading this one very interesting Gidorick and i am sick of that response lol dont know why people think we want them to rush out and do an idea the moment we post em lol.