Siege Weapon Concept: War Mounts

Gidorick

An interesting dynamic that could be added to ESO is War Mounts for Keep Sieges and Defense. Each faction should have a unique war mount available to them that would add a mobile tank siege weapon arsenals.

The Mammoth Siege Beast
This is the War Mount for the Daggerfall Covenant. They could have a weakness to Fire damage.


The Senche-Raht Battle Cat
This is the War Mount for the Aldmeri Dominion. They could have a weakness Ice Damage.


The Centurion Spider War Construct
This is the War Mount for the Ebonheart Pact. They could have a weakness to Shock damage.


Overview

• Each War Mount should cost at least double any other Siege weapon.
• War Mounts act as a battering ram into Keeps or a formidable guard against attacking forces.
• War Mounts should have an insane amount of HP. While on the mount, players shouldn’t take any damage. All damage is reflected on the mount
• Up to 3 players can ride the War Mount, one player steering and attacking. The other two players can use their long range weapons as passengers.
• Once the War Mount is defeated, passengers dismount automatically and take a very small amount of damage. Passengers can dismount prior to the War Mount’s defeat at any point.
• War Mounts that have no passengers should act autonomously, attacking the opposition at their own volition.

Movement & Attacking

• The War Mount has two modes of movement, walk and a short rush, has the ability to attack, and can also guard.
• The player steering the War Mount can move the war mount over enemies to trample them underfoot while walking. Rushing over enemies will cause more damage. Attacking Enemies will cause the most damage.
• Walking into Siege weapons will not cause any damage. Rushing will cause damage, but attacking will cause the most damage.
• Walking into Keep walls will not cause any damage. Attacking will cause some damage but rushing will cause the most damage but will also cause the War Mount to stumble.
• Walking into other War Mounts will not cause any damage. Rushing will cause damage and will make the War Mount stumble, but attacking will cause the most damage.
• War Mounts CAN be attacked by Siege Weapons but War Mounts can guard against attack. Successful attacks with Siege Weapons may cause the War Mount to stumble.

Skills and Such

• Each character should have a faction specific War Mount skill-tree. This could include a set of 5 active skills, an ultimate, and a trio of passive skills. The passive skills could be used to beef up the Speed, Attack, and Defense of the War Mounts.
• The War Mount hot bar should automatically be switched to once the player climbs atop their War Mount.
• War Mounts should have multiple skins, each that are sold in the Crown Store. The player that purchases the War mount can choose what skin is applied upon purchase.

I kept switching the Mammoth Siege Beast and the Centurion Spider War Construct between the Daggerfall Covenant and the Ebonheart Pact. There seems to be rationalization for either War Mount to be in Either Faction. I settled on the above because of the upcoming Wrothgar zone in High Rock with Giants (Daggerfall) and the Clockwork City (Ebonheart).

Do you have any suggestions for better War Mounts for any of the factions?

Do you have any thoughts on better ways for them to be used on the battlefield?

SG_Celerrimus

Interesting idea, although I would just like to be able to have mounted combat in general, even on my guar, horse, or senche-tiger.

Digiman

Eh, don't see Dunmer or Nords reverse engineering the tech of Dwemer, might find something more lethal and functional in blackmarsh.

But I really would like mounted combat in the game, the system is basically there. Only allow weapons to be used and depending on whether they are ranged or melee determine their power and effect.

Riding full gallop towards a guy with your hammer and knock him back and down, If its daggers then it would ignore certain percentage of armor, ranged attacks would be the same no matter what speed but hurt less as arrows would pierce like daggers, destruction staves use the effects they do on their particular type and healing staffs would ignore a certain percentage of spell resistance. You lose health as your horse loses stamina with each hit.

Gidorick

This idea is different than mounted combat. These War Mounts would ONLY be available in Cyrodiil for the Faction War.

Also, the mounts are MUCH larger and the "driver" of the mount doesn't actually partake in the combat themselves, instead they attack with the War Mount.

I do agree that mounted combat is needed, but I had seen that discussed before. I haven't seen a concept for large War-Mounts before. These two ideas, while similar, are different.

Oh, and @Digiman, Lore-wise I was just thinking the Dwemer Construct was a found machine, not a built one. Originally, when I had the Centurion Spider War Construct as a Daggerfall War Mount the thought was it was found buried in the sands of Alik'r. I couldn't think of any other mammoth-sized animal that has been spoken about in TES, can you?

NadiusMaximus

Armored silt strider. I want one.

Roechacca

As much as it "looks" fun , I can't actually see this being implemented in PVP with its current state . PVP lags out too easy as it is and the ability to attack players needs a lot more information . Right now you can't attack players with a ram and that's essentual what these are .

deathmasterl_ESO

This... Would... Be... AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To that end, of course it would require some work on the PvP end as it wouldn't work very well in it's current state that its in. However if worked on and properly balanced I could see this being quite fun and with lots of "Oh ****" Moments as soon as one of these were to appear or a group of them appear.

Of course make them extremely expensive to purchase.

Gidorick

Yea, @roechacca and @deathmasterl_ESO, you're both right. I know PVP needs a LOT of stabilization before these types of ideas get implemented. I just had this idea rolling around in my noggin and wanted to get it out and let it breathe a little.

I was thinking they should cost at LEAST 3K Alliance Points... maybe as much as 5K

Roechacca

Gidorick wrote: »

Yea, @roechacca and @deathmasterl_ESO, you're both right. I know PVP needs a LOT of stabilization before these types of ideas get implemented. I just had this idea rolling around in my noggin and wanted to get it out and let it breathe a little.

I was thinking they should cost at LEAST 3K Alliance Points... maybe as much as 5K

Don't get me wrong you post a lot of good ideas . This would be incredible if it was fair , balanced and unexploitable .

The zero damage for riders was a big red flag in my opinion . But keep the great suggestions up !

TheShadowScout

Sounds interesting.

Though I agree, an armored silt strider or wammasu would sound better for the ebonheart pact, since pretty much the only one I could see building thgose spiders would be Sothra Sil, and you don't ask a "god" to make you war mounts without playing your next cyrodil campaign as frog...

And of course... if we were to get big battle mounts... then I'd first also want to be able to side our horses into battle, and fight from horseback! Possibly as an new skill line... horse archery, charging riders waving their sabers, and possibly even a horse-only lance skill...

Teargrants

War mounts are nice and all, do you really want them to rehash an idea that's been done before?

Just let us chain up elves and use them as siege weps; as seen in the trailer, it's the lore friendly solution.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

A. Mammoths are obviously EP, since they more relate to Nords, DC could have spider or something else, dunno
B. this + regular mounted combat (fro; horses/guar/senche)
C. would be epic

Gidorick

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

A. Mammoths are obviously EP, since they more relate to Nords, DC could have spider or something else, dunno

You know, this was my original thought too but then I considered how closely tied the Dunmer are to the Dwemer and thought it would make the most sense for them to have the Dwemer machine.

Poor Daggerfall Covenant, no War Mount makes sense for them.

Shunravi

Nice expansion of the idea @Gidorick, as always.

But I'm not sure if I agree with dwemer constructs as mounts. I see your reasoning, but I'm sure we could think of something else for DC. Back in the other thread, I suggested maybe dunerippers... But barring that, they could have mammoths as you suggest, and EP could have wamasu.

'course, that really doesn't go with the weakness to shock thing...

I could see a herd of war mammoths rampage through a siege line to break it. Maybe have lightweight, low damage balista on their backs?

Of course, then we come to performance issues...

Rosveen

Mammoths are clearly EP. I don't really see anyone in Tamriel mass-producing/mass-controlling giant Dwemer spiders.

DC could have dunerippers, giant scorpions (almost the same as spider constructs, see?), maybe something prehistoric-inspired like a toxodon?

Kaizxen

I like the idea of siege mounts. They remind me of the siege golems from GW2, but hopefully ESO's would be more fun to play.

Only additional suggestion I would make is that I think there should be consequences to reckless use. Upon destruction, mechanical siege mounts should explode, causing moderate damage to all of its allies in the area. Animal mounts should stampede and/or collapse with the same damage effect.

The reason I suggest this is that in GW2, siege golems were used in huge numbers to swarm enemy keeps, and there was very little drawback to doing it. When the golem was destroyed, the player was simply ejected with little damage at all. Golem rushes were so effective that they became an absurdly common tactic with very little strategy involved.

By making the siege mounts cause AoE damage on death, it discourages use of a large group of them in a small area, and it opens up potential strategies for defending against them and the zergs that often accompany them.

Throren

Mammoths are native to mostly Skyrim only, why would they be used by DC? That only makes sense for EP. It makes zero sense for anyone to be using giant dwemer machines.

EP = Mammoths only make sense for EP and EP only
AD = Senche-raht
DC = this is a tough one as no 'large' animals live around there. Maybe an abnormally large orsinium bear?

Gidorick

Funny. I should have kept the mammoth as EP then!

The reason I Chose a dwemer construct is I couldn't find another mammoth sized animal that existed in Tamriel. I didn't think of stilt striders, but they're docile. I don't think it would be OK just to make a giant version of (random animal), there should be SOME basis for it in Lore.

The Dwemer had giant constructs like the centurion, so there's precedence for large dwemer machines for battle.

Too bad dragons are all asleep.... lol.

Throren

Dragons would still make no sense as they are extremely intelligence and would never submit to a person never mind an entire alliance/nation of people.

While dwemer do have some giant constructs, the fact that an alliance would be able to find a large amount of them to form a 'fighting force' of them and also be able to reliably control them is pretty if-y. Lore wise that faction would win as no animal or fighting force would be able to match an army of giant robots. it would be like having hundreds of mini-numidium's

Rosveen

Throren wrote: »

Dragons would still make no sense as they are extremely intelligence and would never submit to a person never mind an entire alliance/nation of people.

Not quite true. They're intelligent, so they can choose to ally themselves with powerful people - like Odahviing did with the Last Dragonborn. Dragonne Papre was a companion of an Imperial battlemage and lived in the Battlespire. Nafaalilargus worked as a mercenary in Tiber Septim's army and later under the governor of Stros M'Kai. King Lysandus's mother had a dragon as well.

Of course, they absolutely would not work in ESO's setting.

Throren

Rosveen wrote: »

Not quite true. They're intelligent, so they can choose to ally themselves with powerful people - like Odahviing did with the Last Dragonborn. Dragonne Papre was a companion of an Imperial battlemage and lived in the Battlespire. Nafaalilargus worked as a mercenary in Tiber Septim's army and later under the governor of Stros M'Kai. King Lysandus's mother had a dragon as well.

Of course, they absolutely would not work in ESO's setting.

The nature of the Dov is to dominate not serve. Those few mentioned are the exception not the rule. Even parthuurnax said it took centuries of studying the way fo the voice and meditating to deny is dominating nature and not go about burning the countryside.

Others like Odahviing and other dragons in Skyrim only submitted after they were beaten in battle or shown that the Dovahkiin possessed a stronger Thu'um, proving himself the dominant or 'alpha/ dovah.

Rosveen

Throren wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Not quite true. They're intelligent, so they can choose to ally themselves with powerful people - like Odahviing did with the Last Dragonborn. Dragonne Papre was a companion of an Imperial battlemage and lived in the Battlespire. Nafaalilargus worked as a mercenary in Tiber Septim's army and later under the governor of Stros M'Kai. King Lysandus's mother had a dragon as well.

Of course, they absolutely would not work in ESO's setting.

The nature of the Dov is to dominate not serve. Those few mentioned are the exception not the rule. Even parthuurnax said it took centuries of studying the way fo the voice and meditating to deny is dominating nature and not go about burning the countryside.

Others like Odahviing and other dragons in Skyrim only submitted after they were beaten in battle or shown that the Dovahkiin possessed a stronger Thu'um, proving himself the dominant or 'alpha/ dovah.

I don't disagree, I'm just pointing out there's a precedent for dragons allied with humans and fighting in human wars.

Gyudan

The mammoths fit the Ebonheart Pact better.

DC could have either a dwemer construct or a Duneripper given the amount of desert in our territories.

Gidorick

Throren wrote: »

Dragons would still make no sense as they are extremely intelligence and would never submit to a person never mind an entire alliance/nation of people.

While dwemer do have some giant constructs, the fact that an alliance would be able to find a large amount of them to form a 'fighting force' of them and also be able to reliably control them is pretty if-y. Lore wise that faction would win as no animal or fighting force would be able to match an army of giant robots. it would be like having hundreds of mini-numidium's

This is where the machine being semi-functional and out of maintenance could come into play. Have it spit and sputter and grind.... lol. Could be funny.

Gidorick

Gyudan wrote: »

The mammoths fit the Ebonheart Pact better.

DC could have either a dwemer construct or a Duneripper given the amount of desert in our territories.

What's the largest duneripper reported?

Gyudan

Gidorick wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

The mammoths fit the Ebonheart Pact better.

DC could have either a dwemer construct or a Duneripper given the amount of desert in our territories.

What's the largest duneripper reported?

I have no idea. x)
A giant lurcher would also fit for DC and a Wamasu for EP. There could be different types of Senche-Raht for AD.

Gidorick

Gyudan wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

The mammoths fit the Ebonheart Pact better.

DC could have either a dwemer construct or a Duneripper given the amount of desert in our territories.

What's the largest duneripper reported?

I have no idea. x)
A giant lurcher would also fit for DC and a Wamasu for EP. There could be different types of Senche-Raht for AD.

I don't care for the idea of them making some animal mammoth sized for the sake of making a large mount. Wamasu just aren't large enough, same for Lurcher.

...

Screw it! Make it a giant mudcrab!

Shunravi

I'm going to get some actual ingame size comparisons with mammoths, dunerippers, and wamasu. They are all pretty big. Mammoths are just taller.

Throren

Maybe DC can have Ogre mercenaries? idk xD

Gidorick

Cool! Looking forward to that!

Shunravi

Well, I'm suggesting them for good reason. I really do think they could be contenders for siege mounts.