The need for functional torches

Gidorick

We have discussed it before but there hasn't been a thread dedicated to it.

The mechanics for torches already exist in game. The /torch emote produces a torch that is functional. A slight tweak to the radius and intensity of the torches and they will be ready to go for dungeon delving. To accommodate this, darker nights and darker delves would be a good idea.

Torches should be acquired through the following means:

• NPC Merchant
• Looted from containers
• Pulled from sconces
• Crown Store Torch Pack

Torches could eventually be added as a Craft-able item but this wouldn't be necessary. Other Elder Scrolls Games didn't allow Torches to be crafted so ESO could follow suit. There could be different torches of differing quality.

Torch Qualities

• Duration of flame
• Radiance of flame

Torch Types

• Junk: Radiance the same as the current Torch Emote. 60 second duration.
• Normal: Radiance twice as powerful as Junk Torch. 60 second duration.
• Fine: Radiance twice as powerful as Junk Torch. 150 second duration.
• Rare: Radiance twice as powerful as Normal Torch. 150 second duration.
• Epic: Radiance twice as powerful as Normal Torch. 300 second duration.
• Legendary: Radiance twice as powerful as Rare torch. 420 second duration.

Torches packs purchased from the Crown Store should be those of Legendary quality.

Illumination duration would be total time used, so if a player puts the torch away for any reason, the timer pauses. This could be supported by torches that have been used at all being converted to "Used Torch" with a consumption bar similar to an enchantment. Once consumed completely, the torch disappears. Players would want to keep a small stack of torches on them and when one torch is used up, a new torch is auto-equipped in its place.

Torches should be able to be equipped as a one-handed weapon. This way, a player could wield a sword and torch, a torch and shield, or just a torch by itself.

The bottom image would be the Legendary Torch.

Thoughts?

superquadockyb14_ESO

There is a torch Emote?! Whoa. Yeah, would be cool if they could be used to poke about. I really love the lighting effects in this game too, I really wish there were more in the way of 'flashlights'

Gidorick

yea. the emote is cool but as soon as you move the torch goes away.

/torch

Try it out!

Gidorick

I made some changes to the post, added a picture and removed the suggestion that we be able to craft torches. I also expanded on the different types of torches we could have access to.

The great thing about these ideas is that they would take very little in the way of development to implement them in the above manner.

Cry_Wolfe

fairly much everything in OP +1

C0pp3rhead

Bethesda started playing with darkness in Morrowind. They did amazingly in Oblivion and Skyrim. Players loved it.
ZOS comes along and says, "Nah."

I would love to see even one or two pitch black caves in this game. It would be a great mechanic if one player needed to keep a torch out lest your group get mauled from out of the darkness.

Micallef

Gidorick wrote: »

We have discussed it before but there hasn't been a thread dedicated to it.

The mechanics for torches already exist in game. The /torch emote produces a torch that is functional. A slight tweak to the radius and intensity of the torches and they will be ready to go for dungeon delving. To accommodate this, darker nights and darker delves would be a good idea.

Torches should be acquired through the following means:

• NPC Merchant
• Looted from containers
• Pulled from sconces
• Crown Store Torch Pack

Torches could eventually be added as a Craft-able item but this wouldn't be necessary. Other Elder Scrolls Games didn't allow Torches to be crafted so ESO could follow suit. There could be different torches of differing quality.

Torch Qualities

• Duration of flame
• Radiance of flame

Torch Types

• Junk: Radiance the same as the current Torch Emote. 30 second duration.
• Normal: Radiance twice as powerful as Junk Torch. 30 second duration.
• Fine: Radiance twice as powerful as Junk Torch. 60 second duration.
• Rare: Radiance twice as powerful as Normal Torch. 60 second duration.
• Epic: Radiance twice as powerful as Normal Torch. 120 second duration.
• Legendary: Radiance twice as powerful as Rare torch. 180 second duration.

Torches packs purchased from the Crown Store should be those of Legendary quality.

Torches should be able to be equipped as a one-handed weapon. This way, a player could wield a sword and torch, a torch and shield, or just a torch by itself.

The bottom image would be the Legendary Torch.

Thoughts?

Seconded. Great idea!

leshpar

Although I would like to see light spells and torches have their uses in game I do not want to have to unequip my weapon to be able to use a torch. This would cause a serious loss of fun especially in group dungeons. I also would want the torches to last longer. Even in single player Elder Scrolls games torches last longer than 120 seconds. Even in real life torches last longer than that. Make a normal/ junk torch last 30 minutes and an epic/legendary torch last an hour. That is all I have to offer.

Daemons_Bane

Just out of curiosity, since I've seen it so very many times before.. why is it that you feel the need to quote the entire OP, just to agree.?

Gidorick

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Bethesda started playing with darkness in Morrowind. They did amazingly in Oblivion and Skyrim. Players loved it.
ZOS comes along and says, "Nah."

I would love to see even one or two pitch black caves in this game. It would be a great mechanic if one player needed to keep a torch out lest your group get mauled from out of the darkness.

Being in a group with one Torchbearer would be AWESOME @C0pp3rhead!

Gidorick

leshpar wrote: »

Although I would like to see light spells and torches have their uses in game I do not want to have to unequip my weapon to be able to use a torch. This would cause a serious loss of fun especially in group dungeons. I also would want the torches to last longer. Even in single player Elder Scrolls games torches last longer than 120 seconds. Even in real life torches last longer than that. Make a normal/ junk torch last 30 minutes and an epic/legendary torch last an hour. That is all I have to offer.

Well, the magical equivalent to a torch is Magelight, so that skill could be tweaked a bit to offer similar illumination but I've personally never used it. I would think perhaps the torch should last for a similar duration as Magelight, however long that lasts. But Magelight would be the option for illumination without having to hold a torch. What would the alternative be if you're not holding a torch?

I play a character who uses a 2 handed weapon so I understand that using a torch would be frustrating but I feel the function of the torch would be worth the imposition.

Perhaps the times I listed are too short, but 30 minutes is entirely too long. In "ESO" time that would come out to roughly 2 ESO hours, 1 hour would be 4 ESO hours. 30 minutes of ESO time would come out to 7.5 minutes. I would think 5 minutes could be the max with 1 minute being the minimum.

Gidorick

I changed the duration of the torches so they last longer and I added

"Illumination duration would be total time used, so if a player puts the torch away for any reason, the timer pauses. This could be supported by torches that have been used at all being converted to "Used Torch" with a consumption bar similar to an enchantment. Once consumed completely, the torch disappears. Players would want to keep a small stack of torches on them and when one torch is used up, a new torch is auto-equipped in its place."

TheShadowScout

If we have unlimited arrows for our bows, we should be able to get unlimited torchyness for our torches.
Make is a costume that automatically gets unequipped as soon as you draw your weapon or something...

Cry_Wolfe

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, since I've seen it so very many times before.. why is it that you feel the need to quote the entire OP, just to agree.?

I Agree!

Gidorick wrote: »

Well, the magical equivalent to a torch is Magelight, so that skill could be tweaked a bit to offer similar illumination but I've personally never used it. I would think perhaps the torch should last for a similar duration as Magelight, however long that lasts. But Magelight would be the option for illumination without having to hold a torch. What would the alternative be if you're not holding a torch?

I play a character who uses a 2 handed weapon so I understand that using a torch would be frustrating but I feel the function of the torch would be worth the imposition.

Perhaps the times I listed are too short, but 30 minutes is entirely too long. In "ESO" time that would come out to roughly 2 ESO hours, 1 hour would be 4 ESO hours. 30 minutes of ESO time would come out to 7.5 minutes. I would think 5 minutes could be the max with 1 minute being the minimum.

Magelight is (wait for eet!!) .. bugged.

Whilst (when it works) it does provide a not-insubstantial amount of light, most of the time the toggle spell doesn't actually register as having been cast. From what i can gather, a bunch of players wanted the choice of seeing it active or not having its active state displayed, the result being ZoS' implementation of a check box (in graphics settings iirc) to set whether or not the spell would display during its active state.... needless to say, and regardless of ZoS' assertion that the bug has been addressed..... most of the time Magelight does not display (yes even though a player has set it to display in settings).


yours sincerely
Bleh the forth

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

I changed the duration of the torches so they last longer and I added

"Illumination duration would be total time used, so if a player puts the torch away for any reason, the timer pauses. This could be supported by torches that have been used at all being converted to "Used Torch" with a consumption bar similar to an enchantment. Once consumed completely, the torch disappears. Players would want to keep a small stack of torches on them and when one torch is used up, a new torch is auto-equipped in its place."

I love the post as always Gidorick also im back baby and series 2 has started.

Ps. Torches are a must for a dungeon diving feel and i love it.

F7sus4

You ever heard of Destro-staff?

Gidorick

I had no idea @Cry_Wolfe. Sounds to me like magelight could use an overhaul.

Cast Magelight to activate. Hit same key to deactivate. This shouldn't impact cool down so if you hit the key while is active and not cooled Down Magelight turns off. You then have to wait for cooldown to turn it back on. If you hit the key while it's active and cooled down it turns off, but doesn't cast it again. That way you can cast it again immediately.

Also, the light intensity would have to be tweaked if it were to be used as a light source.

Caroloces

leshpar wrote: »

Although I would like to see light spells and torches have their uses in game I do not want to have to unequip my weapon to be able to use a torch. This would cause a serious loss of fun especially in group dungeons. I also would want the torches to last longer. Even in single player Elder Scrolls games torches last longer than 120 seconds. Even in real life torches last longer than that. Make a normal/ junk torch last 30 minutes and an epic/legendary torch last an hour. That is all I have to offer.

Anyone carrying a staff should be able to carry a torch in the other hand. The revised combat animations that came with 1.6 show staff attacks with 1 hand. The trick would be in revising the animations to show healing and destro attacks along with an equipped torch, awkward to say the least.

Gidorick

Welcome back @Heromofo. Looking forward to your next torrent of ideas! Lol.

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

Welcome back @Heromofo. Looking forward to your next torrent of ideas! Lol.

They are already starting to come in part 1-2 are up for series 2 i would love your feedback on them.
Also has ZOS mentioned anything about torches in the past because i would love them when i am dungeon diving.

Gidorick

I think the real need is for 1 handed staffs @Caroloces. That way players can staff and sword or staff and sword or dual staff. Of course, a one handed staff would need to be less powerful than a two handed staff but that discussion belongs here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/141264/if-only-we-could-have-one-handed-staffs/p1

Caroloces

Gidorick wrote: »

I think the real need is for 1 handed staffs @Caroloces. That way players can staff and sword or staff and sword or dual staff. Of course, a one handed staff would need to be less powerful than a two handed staff but that discussion belongs here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/141264/if-only-we-could-have-one-handed-staffs/p1

Maybe, but the problem remains: what does your character do with the torch when combat ensues? Use the torch as a weapon? And if your character dies, does the torch go out, or does it remain sputtering on the ground.

I am in total support of this idea (see my post in armchair developer thread http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1679040/ #98).

The greatest benefit I can see with torches is the added tension and suspense it would give to the game. Right now, you can practically view every mob and boss at a distance, and gauge your readiness for combat. What we need more of are darkened areas where unimaginable things may be lurking, and there may be times when you're caught unprepared.

The beauty of torches is not so much that they shed light, but, at the worst moments, they may sputter out!

nastuug

Wouldn't they have to readjust the lighting -- pretty much a complete overhaul -- if these were added with purpose? I mean, we don't even need them right now.

nimander99

This is a great idea, I would love to see more elements like this i.e. functional spells outside of combat etc. +1

Grayphilosophy

Wholeheartedly agree. I've never actually seen a multiplayer game in which light effects actually played a significant role. Might also add a tactical aspect of having to decide between vision or stealth

Gidorick

nastuug wrote: »

Wouldn't they have to readjust the lighting -- pretty much a complete overhaul -- if these were added with purpose? I mean, we don't even need them right now.

Yes and no. If you look at my screen shots you'll see that my settings keep eso pretty dark. Those aren't re-touched Screen shots. Many players would use them because we want to.... upping the gamma would alleviate the darkness too. In my Environment & Weather Systems Overhaul Concept thread I suggest contextually darker nights to support the addition of torches.

Gidorick wrote: »

Night Enhancements
To be honest, I had planned to have a section for Day Enhancements but I truly feel the day environments are just about perfect in Tamriel. The appearance of the sun, the movement of the shadows, and the skybox are all wonderfully designed and constructed. There is nothing I could imagine that would make the days of Tamriel better than they are. Well, except for fog removal, as mentioned above.

Opposed to day, night in Tamriel actually leaves quite a bit to be desired. There are a few enhancements that should be made to make the night play significantly different than the day in Tamriel.

• Darker nights: First and foremost, Tamriel needs darker nights, depending on the cloud cover.
  • The current night brightness should be the setting for bright nights with clear sparkling skies.
  • The darkest the night should be a stormy night with completely covered skies.
  • Darkness should vary naturally from the brightness night to the darkest night, dependent on cloud cover.
  
  
  While it would make sense for the brightness of the night to be effected by the phases of Masser and Secunda, I think it would be too much to ask to have both weather and moon-phase to impact the brightness of the night.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157644/environment-weather-systems-overhaul-concept

ZOS would likely want to relight some dungeons to 'encourage' torch use of they were ever added.

freespirit

In my current state of boredom, I have been playing a single player game......

Just last night I did a quest in a mine, it was pitch black, I was stumbling around like an idiot, cursing my Dwarven companions, I kept getting cornered by them......

There were burners available to light and a potion I could drink to see in the dark.....

I went with the burners, it kept me amused for way longer than it should have.

The idea of a 'Single Torchbearer' in group dungeons sounds brilliant, imagine all the possible consequences, however when playing solo I remember in Skyrim choosing to fumble around in the dark rather than equip a torch, due to weapon activation limitations.....

These fingers are not as quick as they used to be.

I do think some Delves/Dungeons should be darker, I find some underground places in ESO to be unnaturally bright, so definitely a +1 for the general idea.

Gidorick

I like your thoughts @Caroloces. The possibility of placing a torch in a sconce or throwing it on the ground like a flare sounds awesome!

As for combat, players would use the torch as a shield, holding it up to block with, or swap to a different weapon. I think they should serve the same function as a shield, but should be able to be equipped with anything, inciting a shield.

Caroloces

nastuug wrote: »

Wouldn't they have to readjust the lighting -- pretty much a complete overhaul -- if these were added with purpose? I mean, we don't even need them right now.

I don't think it would need to be a global adjustment. They could start with some specific dungeons (maybe some of the veteran dungeons that still need to be completed), and just diminish the light in certain areas of the dungeon where the torches would be a necessity. The other element that would need to be put in place to achieve that degree of suspense and tension is sound, or the lack thereof.

I imagine a scenario where a nightblade scout might venture into this darkened realm ahead of his waiting party. The drip of water, the chittering sound of scurrying critters running from the new light, shadows shifting on darkened walls, and NO ESO MUSIC playing, just the silence of a subterranean realm. (Nothing against the music, it's superb. But there are times when its absence might create a greater effect). The Nightblade might trigger some aggro, or he may be sneaky enough to return unscathed back to his party. The potential for true suspense is great. Imagine the NB triggering the aggro of some boss in the shadows. The rest of his party hears the conflagration at a distance and rushes to his aid. Another party member equips a torch and arrives to find the NB holding his own. The party rushes in . . . and the remaining torch flares out. A slight ambience remains, but the primary light comes from the vivid spells that the boss casts. The party members spot each other in the rush of flames coming from the boss.. and the fight goes on . . .

SickDuck

Torches and pitch black nights in PVP...

Gidorick

SickDuck wrote: »

Torches and pitch black nights in PVP...

Lol. Aim for the flames.