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Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As I have done my time in the penalty box and allowed to post again...
@DDuke
You are on Sotha Sil EU and don't encounter anyone sniping? Just go to any outpost defense. There you have at least 10 people perched on the crest sniping away happily. I also experience many players sniping from the middle of the 50+ EP Zerg. I'll concede that a player using snipe won't get another player down with just snipe if the victim is not afk and not engaged elsewhere. It's still very common that you get sniped from somewhere when you already fight others. Of course any other ability with 41m range would kill you too probably, but I think it's a psychological thing. I dislike gankers with a passion, probably coming from how stupid stealth play in this game is (and as you said, the Incap + SA + Executioner from stealth is even worse). The feeling of having had no chance of fighting back is what makes this so infuriating.
@Derra
Exactly. Ageee totally.
"Snipe is annoying" - is that the justification for showing cast bars for all cast time abilities (even for stealthed players) 1s+ prior to the moment any visual/sound cue would normally appear?
Look, I can understand if some vital cues are missing and people need an addon to fix that. That's fine. But read the bolded part and you might see what the real problem is.
Judging from people dodging procced fragments even in melee due to this addon - i don´t think the 1s casttime animation makes a difference except if you´re fighting the juciest potatoes.
Did you even watch the video I posted on the very first post of this thread? It makes an enormous difference.
You still have a chance to land a cast time ability from 15-20m distance against decent players - with this addon that chance disappears. Watch the video.
Well you don´t with magica HA, darkflare or fragments - which is why i think there´s an issue with snipe
There's no issue for me. On the video, you can see/hear the arrow right after the cast time completes and it's ridiculously easy to dodge if it comes from max range (just ask @Ragnaroek93 , I also tried sniping him instead of the other way around).
From close range, visual/audio cues still appear right after cast time completes (as seen/heard on the video), but it's significantly harder to react in time due to shorter travel distance. As it should.
With the addon though? You simply can't get hit anymore, as demonstrated in the video.
If you have an issue hearing an audio/visual cue for an ability, take it up with ZOS. Don't defend cheats that not only provide that cue (which is all you need, based on how I read your posts), but the whole cast bar for the ability.Edited by DDuke on October 4, 2017 1:23PM4 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Then where are the bug report threads, threads of people complaining about Snipe?
People on consoles don't have access to this addon (or any other addon) and seem to be having no problems with snipe.
It sounds to me that people are just coming up with excuses for cheats that are beneficial for them to exist.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361862/four-focussed-aims-in-a-second/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330866/zos-fix-snipe/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/353780/will-you-ever-fix-the-snipe-lag-glitch
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316933/macroslice-and-snipe-glitching-needs-to-die
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311330/snipe-glitching-needs-to-go
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373513/whats-with-the-snipe-poison-injection-insta-kill/p1
That's just a small selection of threads from this year. There are a lot more, some quite old, so many players probably gave up on reporting and just accept that those issues won't get fixed ever.
Why would i make up things to defend (well, i'm not really defending it, but w/e) something i don't like and don't use?
Edit: It is not always bugged. Doesn't mean it is never bugged.Edited by Rianai on October 4, 2017 1:30PM4 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As I have done my time in the penalty box and allowed to post again...
@DDuke
You are on Sotha Sil EU and don't encounter anyone sniping? Just go to any outpost defense. There you have at least 10 people perched on the crest sniping away happily. I also experience many players sniping from the middle of the 50+ EP Zerg. I'll concede that a player using snipe won't get another player down with just snipe if the victim is not afk and not engaged elsewhere. It's still very common that you get sniped from somewhere when you already fight others. Of course any other ability with 41m range would kill you too probably, but I think it's a psychological thing. I dislike gankers with a passion, probably coming from how stupid stealth play in this game is (and as you said, the Incap + SA + Executioner from stealth is even worse). The feeling of having had no chance of fighting back is what makes this so infuriating.
@Derra
Exactly. Ageee totally.
"Snipe is annoying" - is that the justification for showing cast bars for all cast time abilities (even for stealthed players) 1s+ prior to the moment any visual/sound cue would normally appear?
Look, I can understand if some vital cues are missing and people need an addon to fix that. That's fine. But read the bolded part and you might see what the real problem is.
Judging from people dodging procced fragments even in melee due to this addon - i don´t think the 1s casttime animation makes a difference except if you´re fighting the juciest potatoes.
Did you even watch the video I posted on the very first post of this thread? It makes an enormous difference.
You still have a chance to land a cast time ability from 15-20m distance against decent players - with this addon that chance disappears. Watch the video.
Well you don´t with magica HA, darkflare or fragments - which is why i think there´s an issue with snipe
There's no issue for me. On the video, you can see/hear the arrow right after the cast time completes and it's ridiculously easy to dodge if it comes from max range (just ask @Ragnaroek93 , I also tried sniping him instead of the other way around).
From close range, visual/audio cues still appear right after cast time completes (as seen/heard on the video), but it's significantly harder to react in time due to shorter travel distance. As it should.
With the addon though? You simply can't get hit anymore, as demonstrated in the video.
If you have an issue hearing an audio/visual cue for an ability, take it up with ZOS. Don't defend cheats that not only provide that cue (which is all you need, based on how I read your posts), but the whole cast bar for the ability.
Well just test it - snipe someone from medium range with only audicue to dodge and then try the same with darkflare/fireheavy with only audiocue to dodge.
I´m pretty sure you´ll find you´ll be 100% able to dodge both magica attacks - while as you stated snipe might hit you.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sounds like this is very real issue and Derra was unable to play this game for 3 years until Miat came to rescue. I definitely did not see Derra fighting before. Definitely not.
All the poor magsorc. Totally bad to play them all these years. All of them in PVE because of it. Just showing head out of the base to repair some wall and instantly ganked by some sniper. Every day of last 3 years.Edited by SodanTok on October 4, 2017 1:33PM4 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sounds like this is very real issue and Derra was unable to play this game for 3 years until Miat came to rescue. I definitely did not see Derra fighting before. Definitely not.
Well snipe wasn´t really an issue when you had 20s shields
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yet that is 1.5y old change no? I saw you play regularly. Many sorcs actually. Does not look like you were struggling that hard.Edited by SodanTok on October 4, 2017 1:34PM1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@SodanTok
I'm not complaining and will play my Sorc until they shut the servers down. I'm simply stating that I can see why one would like the notification (I don't use that part of the addon). Stealth play is just so badly implemented in this game that I don't crucify players for seeking ways to lessen its impact.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm not complaining and will play my Sorc until they shut the servers down. I'm simply stating that I can see why one would like the notification (I don't use that part of the addon). Stealth play is just so badly implemented in this game that I don't crucify players for seeking ways to lessen its impact.
Thats the thing. All the things here, the bad and the good are part of very complex system. Removing one had severe impact.
So while people like Derra here can finally breathe, because 1% of all the problems they have is removed by this addon.
I am literally unable to play 2 of my 3 characters. I had pretty good success before 1T patch with bow nightblade and I dont mean ganking. I was able to small scale and duel with snipe as main hitting ability because I was allowed to outplay opponents. Cloak/shade/trees/rocks/... allowed me to hide snipe cast or reposition myself behind target. Sure, that was when you could use medium armor with 19k hp and go full damage. Sure it did not work on the best players (but why it should). Since Miat? That characters if crafter. Nothing else. I could take him to PVP and just snipe away at people from keep or stealth. But I could have killed potatoes that cant even dodge or cc break even before. Now its the only thing that snipe can kill.
The only thing I am allowed to play with bow is warden. Allowed being operative word, because it literally took undodgeable ability to do that. I have to sacrifice so much damage to get sustain, because even if bulk of my damage is not affected by Miat, I still cant use heavy attacks to restore my resources. Because everyone better than potato will dodge it.4 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@DDuke
No, stealth still has too many advantages would be my line of reasoning. And yes, I know the bonus damage from stealth got ditched with Morrowind. Still. In the end it's not really important though. The answer to the feeling of having no chance of fighting back has always been zerg up and tank up, which is why Cyrodiil is what it is. I'd rather have people use an addon and roam around in groups less than 50+ if it makes them feel less vulnerable.
There's always been a chance to fight back/evade the entire gank (in case of snipe atleast). If you can't hear/see the cues due to some bug, the answer isn't to show the whole freaking cast timer - it's to provide that cue via the addon (or better yet, having ZOS fix the supposed bug which I'm still not convinced even exists).
Players have survived ganks just fine since 2014 by relying on these cues, even back when bow could deal literally 3x the burst damage it does these days.
If neither of these is possible, there's always the option of building your character to survive gankers and reacting faster with CC break & dodge roll.
If you need 50+ to "not feel vulnerable", then you really suck at this game.
Exactly, and when I get ganked ( i dont use that hand holding spoon feeding drivel of an add on ) I usually think, damn, I made a mistake. I learn from that mistake, and continue playing. No reasonable person would be " I WANT TO DESTROY THAT ENTIRE PLAYSTYLE BECAUSE CALL THE WAH POLICE!"0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@DDuke
Yet that's what Cyrodiil looks like in Sotha Sil EU. Running with 50+ just has no downside. As for the cast timer, people were complaining about the addon when it just showed a plain text notification. You know what the opposite of the Miat's user is? The one that enjoyed his three proc sets and one shots from stealth. There is a reason people like the Archer/rogue archetype so much. They want easy kills while never ever being at risk themselves.
Right, we like the easy kills, it couldnt possibly be that I have always liked the rogue type player in all TES games and in High Fantasy in General could it? The only people that want hand holding and easy mode are the people that like to *** all over other peoples playstyle because they cant be bothered to USE A POTION.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭(or better yet, having ZOS fix the supposed bug which I'm still not convinced even exists).
You realize you´re the only one in this topic saying the snipe souncdcue is fine for you aren´t you?
There are atleast 10 different people that say snipe sound does not work reliably for them.
Everyone has something going on with their ears. That´s why it´s only snipe for most ppl
Even if the sound doesnt go off, if I get hit by a snipe out of nowhere, this is what you do- Breakfree, dodge, heal, flare
- Breakfree, Block, heal, flare
- Breakfree, use damage shield, heal, mage light
- Applies to 1-3 as well. Switch brain to on, and don't go in cruise control through cyro.
Those are three basic things you can do to avoid being shot further from stealth. But no, people need a signal that tells them exactly when to dodge, even when they arent looking at said player. IF you would have to target said player, and they would ahve to be out of stealth for you to see the warning, NO ONE would take issue, because that is like every other mmo, the problem with this one is, and ones like it, it warns you no matter if you are looking at them, or oblivious to your surroundings as a horse with blinders on.Edited by Jade1986 on October 4, 2017 2:15PM0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not complaining and will play my Sorc until they shut the servers down. I'm simply stating that I can see why one would like the notification (I don't use that part of the addon). Stealth play is just so badly implemented in this game that I don't crucify players for seeking ways to lessen its impact.
Thats the thing. All the things here, the bad and the good are part of very complex system. Removing one had severe impact.
So while people like Derra here can finally breathe, because 1% of all the problems they have is removed by this addon.
I am literally unable to play 2 of my 3 characters. I had pretty good success before 1T patch with bow nightblade and I dont mean ganking. I was able to small scale and duel with snipe as main hitting ability because I was allowed to outplay opponents. Cloak/shade/trees/rocks/... allowed me to hide snipe cast or reposition myself behind target. Sure, that was when you could use medium armor with 19k hp and go full damage. Sure it did not work on the best players (but why it should). Since Miat? That characters if crafter. Nothing else. I could take him to PVP and just snipe away at people from keep or stealth. But I could have killed potatoes that cant even dodge or cc break even before. Now its the only thing that snipe can kill.
The only thing I am allowed to play with bow is warden. Allowed being operative word, because it literally took undodgeable ability to do that. I have to sacrifice so much damage to get sustain, because even if bulk of my damage is not affected by Miat, I still cant use heavy attacks to restore my resources. Because everyone better than potato will dodge it.
This is exactly my problem too, I have 4 toons that were ranged classes, none of them were nightblades, and all of them are obsolete now because of this add on. This is the worst kind of business practice POSSIBLe from ZoS. It is honestly really disheartening tbh.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I exclusively play noCP. With shields down Snipe can crit for 7k+ on a LA build without impen (granted, that's a player choice). The counters to stealth are not really great.
1. Flare. It's an expensive skill that takes up a precious bar slot and does nothing else than reveal. I can see it's use on a Support build, but outside of that it's simply not good enough.
2. RML. True, it prevents the stun and reduces damage from stealth by 50%. The only downside is you are totally screwed if you want to PvE every day too. Not only the cost of respeccing, but the process of it is very annoying.
3. Detect pots. Apart from the fact that it is unreliable because you may have already used the CD it's a tool only for the follow up after you survived the gank. It doesn't do anything to prevent it.
Again, not complaining. Just stating that stealth is just badly implemented and therefore I can see why people just outright hate it.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not complaining and will play my Sorc until they shut the servers down. I'm simply stating that I can see why one would like the notification (I don't use that part of the addon). Stealth play is just so badly implemented in this game that I don't crucify players for seeking ways to lessen its impact.
Thats the thing. All the things here, the bad and the good are part of very complex system. Removing one had severe impact.
So while people like Derra here can finally breathe, because 1% of all the problems they have is removed by this addon.
I am literally unable to play 2 of my 3 characters. I had pretty good success before 1T patch with bow nightblade and I dont mean ganking. I was able to small scale and duel with snipe as main hitting ability because I was allowed to outplay opponents. Cloak/shade/trees/rocks/... allowed me to hide snipe cast or reposition myself behind target. Sure, that was when you could use medium armor with 19k hp and go full damage. Sure it did not work on the best players (but why it should). Since Miat? That characters if crafter. Nothing else. I could take him to PVP and just snipe away at people from keep or stealth. But I could have killed potatoes that cant even dodge or cc break even before. Now its the only thing that snipe can kill.
The only thing I am allowed to play with bow is warden. Allowed being operative word, because it literally took undodgeable ability to do that. I have to sacrifice so much damage to get sustain, because even if bulk of my damage is not affected by Miat, I still cant use heavy attacks to restore my resources. Because everyone better than potato will dodge it.
That's why ZoS never intended for enemy cast times to have icons with timers. They wanted you to see and hear what's going on and play accordingly, as that matches the camera+controls they are using for the game.
A certain amount of human error, grants more flexibility in builds and playstyles.
Miats gives you the ability to see cast times from your target which was intended to be done with your eyes and ears. It also shows you the direction of keeps and if there are any enemies around in the area, both of which are intended for you to use limited UI services like the map and a little situational expectation that enemies will be near the keeps on the front lines so plan accordingly.
Right before launch, Sage had removed an add-on that saw your targets Stam/mag. That alone should tell you the intent they want out of their API.
But it is up to ZoS, I honestly don't think they care enough of PvP to justify making their team spend time on a segment of the game that doesn't make them money. It would be a crazy time for them to dive under the hood to patch the API for each add-on that's created in PvP. That's why they banned the add-on that looked at your teams dps; it was impacting pve players significantly in a negative way.
They will need to ban all add-ons in PvP, as a majority of them show information that was never intended (except those buff timers they just added. But then again they are very simple icons and can be hard to read versus other add-ons that show buffs.)
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Then where are the bug report threads, threads of people complaining about Snipe?
People on consoles don't have access to this addon (or any other addon) and seem to be having no problems with snipe.
It sounds to me that people are just coming up with excuses for cheats that are beneficial for them to exist.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361862/four-focussed-aims-in-a-second/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330866/zos-fix-snipe/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/353780/will-you-ever-fix-the-snipe-lag-glitch
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316933/macroslice-and-snipe-glitching-needs-to-die
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311330/snipe-glitching-needs-to-go
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373513/whats-with-the-snipe-poison-injection-insta-kill/p1
That's just a small selection of threads from this year. There are a lot more, some quite old, so many players probably gave up on reporting and just accept that those issues won't get fixed ever.
Why would i make up things to defend something i don't like and don't use?
That's just a bunch of people complaining about lag - I've been on the receiving end of multiple variations of that (Dark Flares, jbeams, wrecking blows etc etc).
Sucks, but it has nothing to do with the skill itself and no addon saves you from that.As I have done my time in the penalty box and allowed to post again...
@DDuke
You are on Sotha Sil EU and don't encounter anyone sniping? Just go to any outpost defense. There you have at least 10 people perched on the crest sniping away happily. I also experience many players sniping from the middle of the 50+ EP Zerg. I'll concede that a player using snipe won't get another player down with just snipe if the victim is not afk and not engaged elsewhere. It's still very common that you get sniped from somewhere when you already fight others. Of course any other ability with 41m range would kill you too probably, but I think it's a psychological thing. I dislike gankers with a passion, probably coming from how stupid stealth play in this game is (and as you said, the Incap + SA + Executioner from stealth is even worse). The feeling of having had no chance of fighting back is what makes this so infuriating.
@Derra
Exactly. Ageee totally.
"Snipe is annoying" - is that the justification for showing cast bars for all cast time abilities (even for stealthed players) 1s+ prior to the moment any visual/sound cue would normally appear?
Look, I can understand if some vital cues are missing and people need an addon to fix that. That's fine. But read the bolded part and you might see what the real problem is.
Judging from people dodging procced fragments even in melee due to this addon - i don´t think the 1s casttime animation makes a difference except if you´re fighting the juciest potatoes.
Did you even watch the video I posted on the very first post of this thread? It makes an enormous difference.
You still have a chance to land a cast time ability from 15-20m distance against decent players - with this addon that chance disappears. Watch the video.
Well you don´t with magica HA, darkflare or fragments - which is why i think there´s an issue with snipe
There's no issue for me. On the video, you can see/hear the arrow right after the cast time completes and it's ridiculously easy to dodge if it comes from max range (just ask @Ragnaroek93 , I also tried sniping him instead of the other way around).
From close range, visual/audio cues still appear right after cast time completes (as seen/heard on the video), but it's significantly harder to react in time due to shorter travel distance. As it should.
With the addon though? You simply can't get hit anymore, as demonstrated in the video.
If you have an issue hearing an audio/visual cue for an ability, take it up with ZOS. Don't defend cheats that not only provide that cue (which is all you need, based on how I read your posts), but the whole cast bar for the ability.
Well just test it - snipe someone from medium range with only audicue to dodge and then try the same with darkflare/fireheavy with only audiocue to dodge.
I´m pretty sure you´ll find you´ll be 100% able to dodge both magica attacks - while as you stated snipe might hit you.
I clearly care too much to keep posting these, but here's another video:
https://youtu.be/9yyp7Uf2Ryg
Showcasing both the Dark Flare+Jav combo (almost impossible to dodge from close distance due to Jav's high travel speed) & just Dark Flares.
What you'll notice is that short range Dark Flare from infront is relatively easy to dodge (just like snipe, as you see the animation), while one from behind is more difficult (but still possible) as you have pretty much only the audio cue to rely on.
Again, exactly the same as Snipe.
Target was not using Miat's obviously, otherwise none of those (including javelins) would've landed.Edited by DDuke on October 4, 2017 2:53PM2 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not complaining and will play my Sorc until they shut the servers down. I'm simply stating that I can see why one would like the notification (I don't use that part of the addon). Stealth play is just so badly implemented in this game that I don't crucify players for seeking ways to lessen its impact.
Thats the thing. All the things here, the bad and the good are part of very complex system. Removing one had severe impact.
So while people like Derra here can finally breathe, because 1% of all the problems they have is removed by this addon.
I am literally unable to play 2 of my 3 characters. I had pretty good success before 1T patch with bow nightblade and I dont mean ganking. I was able to small scale and duel with snipe as main hitting ability because I was allowed to outplay opponents. Cloak/shade/trees/rocks/... allowed me to hide snipe cast or reposition myself behind target. Sure, that was when you could use medium armor with 19k hp and go full damage. Sure it did not work on the best players (but why it should). Since Miat? That characters if crafter. Nothing else. I could take him to PVP and just snipe away at people from keep or stealth. But I could have killed potatoes that cant even dodge or cc break even before. Now its the only thing that snipe can kill.
The only thing I am allowed to play with bow is warden. Allowed being operative word, because it literally took undodgeable ability to do that. I have to sacrifice so much damage to get sustain, because even if bulk of my damage is not affected by Miat, I still cant use heavy attacks to restore my resources. Because everyone better than potato will dodge it.
That's why ZoS never intended for enemy cast times to have icons with timers. They wanted you to see and hear what's going on and play accordingly, as that matches the camera+controls they are using for the game.
A certain amount of human error, grants more flexibility in builds and playstyles.
Miats gives you the ability to see cast times from your target which was intended to be done with your eyes and ears. It also shows you the direction of keeps and if there are any enemies around in the area, both of which are intended for you to use limited UI services like the map and a little situational expectation that enemies will be near the keeps on the front lines so plan accordingly.
Right before launch, Sage had removed an add-on that saw your targets Stam/mag. That alone should tell you the intent they want out of their API.
But it is up to ZoS, I honestly don't think they care enough of PvP to justify making their team spend time on a segment of the game that doesn't make them money. It would be a crazy time for them to dive under the hood to patch the API for each add-on that's created in PvP. That's why they banned the add-on that looked at your teams dps; it was impacting pve players significantly in a negative way.
They will need to ban all add-ons in PvP, as a majority of them show information that was never intended (except those buff timers they just added. But then again they are very simple icons and can be hard to read versus other add-ons that show buffs.)
I don't know how Miat's isn't seen as an advantage over someone not using his or a similar addon. On your screen it tells you of an incoming range attack (like poison injection) clear as day, and he dodge rolls. He built his build to have plenty of roll juice. Seems like a simple argument to me. Miat's addon significantly reduces chance for player error or need for awareness in certain situations. NOT TO MENTION, there was a time when Miat was using his addon and it told him of enemy players stealthed around him, how many, and I believe even gave him their names. Completely made the stealth element of combat for those players mean nothing when going up against anyone using that addon. Did those players even know that they were going up against someone using the addon?
ZOS needs to revisit addons and API and more strongly define for all of us what is allowable and what is considered crossing the line.6 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR3 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Publius_Scipio
Apparently they don't even stop CE, although they tried. There are worse things than Miat's.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
I made a new thread (I haven't personally created any regarding this addon previously, though I've posted in several) because nothing is being done about it - and I will keep creating new ones and keep posting until this has thousands of pages unless I'm either banned from the forums or a change happens.
Also, most of the other threads complain about addon, while the problem lies in the API. Getting rid of the addon (which also has many other functions that don't ruin the game for others) solves nothing as long as these kinds of cheats are allowed by the API.InvitationNotFound wrote: »I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
And no, maybe they aren't considered "cheats" by ZOS's definition (hence this thread), but they sure are from my perspective (and from the perspective of majority of people I'd say).Edited by DDuke on October 4, 2017 3:11PM4 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
I don't think ZoS has time to properly review the add-on against their design intent for the animation/audio cue system. And they aren't going to review it in more detail for just PC users when consoles don't have any add-ons.
It's not that they consider it fine or illegal, PvP is too small, too niche, and doesn't generate enough revenue to justify allocating a few employees to dive in there and start ripping out wires.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Publius_Scipio
Apparently they don't even stop CE, although they tried. There are worse things than Miat's.
CE is a different story. ZOS does things behind the scene to stop CE, then those behind CE will tweak a few things to get it working again. Such is the battle between most if not all online games these days.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Then where are the bug report threads, threads of people complaining about Snipe?
People on consoles don't have access to this addon (or any other addon) and seem to be having no problems with snipe.
It sounds to me that people are just coming up with excuses for cheats that are beneficial for them to exist.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361862/four-focussed-aims-in-a-second/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330866/zos-fix-snipe/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/353780/will-you-ever-fix-the-snipe-lag-glitch
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316933/macroslice-and-snipe-glitching-needs-to-die
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311330/snipe-glitching-needs-to-go
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373513/whats-with-the-snipe-poison-injection-insta-kill/p1
That's just a small selection of threads from this year. There are a lot more, some quite old, so many players probably gave up on reporting and just accept that those issues won't get fixed ever.
Why would i make up things to defend something i don't like and don't use?
That's just a bunch of people complaining about lag - I've been on the receiving end of multiple variations of that (Dark Flares, jbeams, wrecking blows etc etc).
Sucks, but it has nothing to do with the skill itself and no addon saves you from that.As I have done my time in the penalty box and allowed to post again...
@DDuke
You are on Sotha Sil EU and don't encounter anyone sniping? Just go to any outpost defense. There you have at least 10 people perched on the crest sniping away happily. I also experience many players sniping from the middle of the 50+ EP Zerg. I'll concede that a player using snipe won't get another player down with just snipe if the victim is not afk and not engaged elsewhere. It's still very common that you get sniped from somewhere when you already fight others. Of course any other ability with 41m range would kill you too probably, but I think it's a psychological thing. I dislike gankers with a passion, probably coming from how stupid stealth play in this game is (and as you said, the Incap + SA + Executioner from stealth is even worse). The feeling of having had no chance of fighting back is what makes this so infuriating.
@Derra
Exactly. Ageee totally.
"Snipe is annoying" - is that the justification for showing cast bars for all cast time abilities (even for stealthed players) 1s+ prior to the moment any visual/sound cue would normally appear?
Look, I can understand if some vital cues are missing and people need an addon to fix that. That's fine. But read the bolded part and you might see what the real problem is.
Judging from people dodging procced fragments even in melee due to this addon - i don´t think the 1s casttime animation makes a difference except if you´re fighting the juciest potatoes.
Did you even watch the video I posted on the very first post of this thread? It makes an enormous difference.
You still have a chance to land a cast time ability from 15-20m distance against decent players - with this addon that chance disappears. Watch the video.
Well you don´t with magica HA, darkflare or fragments - which is why i think there´s an issue with snipe
There's no issue for me. On the video, you can see/hear the arrow right after the cast time completes and it's ridiculously easy to dodge if it comes from max range (just ask @Ragnaroek93 , I also tried sniping him instead of the other way around).
From close range, visual/audio cues still appear right after cast time completes (as seen/heard on the video), but it's significantly harder to react in time due to shorter travel distance. As it should.
With the addon though? You simply can't get hit anymore, as demonstrated in the video.
If you have an issue hearing an audio/visual cue for an ability, take it up with ZOS. Don't defend cheats that not only provide that cue (which is all you need, based on how I read your posts), but the whole cast bar for the ability.
Well just test it - snipe someone from medium range with only audicue to dodge and then try the same with darkflare/fireheavy with only audiocue to dodge.
I´m pretty sure you´ll find you´ll be 100% able to dodge both magica attacks - while as you stated snipe might hit you.
I clearly care too much to keep posting these, but here's another video:https://youtu.be/9yyp7Uf2Ryg
Showcasing both the Dark Flare+Jav combo (almost impossible to dodge from close distance due to Jav's high travel speed) & just Dark Flares.
What you'll notice is that short range Dark Flare from infront is relatively easy to dodge (just like snipe, as you see the animation), while one from behind is more difficult (but still possible) as you have pretty much only the audio cue to rely on.
Again, exactly the same as Snipe.
Target was not using Miat's obviously, otherwise none of those (including javelins) would've landed.
I´ve never mentioned javelin.
You can snipe and javelin aswell.
That´s an issue with javelin animationspeed though <Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Then where are the bug report threads, threads of people complaining about Snipe?
People on consoles don't have access to this addon (or any other addon) and seem to be having no problems with snipe.
It sounds to me that people are just coming up with excuses for cheats that are beneficial for them to exist.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361862/four-focussed-aims-in-a-second/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330866/zos-fix-snipe/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/353780/will-you-ever-fix-the-snipe-lag-glitch
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316933/macroslice-and-snipe-glitching-needs-to-die
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311330/snipe-glitching-needs-to-go
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373513/whats-with-the-snipe-poison-injection-insta-kill/p1
That's just a small selection of threads from this year. There are a lot more, some quite old, so many players probably gave up on reporting and just accept that those issues won't get fixed ever.
Why would i make up things to defend something i don't like and don't use?
That's just a bunch of people complaining about lag - I've been on the receiving end of multiple variations of that (Dark Flares, jbeams, wrecking blows etc etc).
Sucks, but it has nothing to do with the skill itself and no addon saves you from that.As I have done my time in the penalty box and allowed to post again...
@DDuke
You are on Sotha Sil EU and don't encounter anyone sniping? Just go to any outpost defense. There you have at least 10 people perched on the crest sniping away happily. I also experience many players sniping from the middle of the 50+ EP Zerg. I'll concede that a player using snipe won't get another player down with just snipe if the victim is not afk and not engaged elsewhere. It's still very common that you get sniped from somewhere when you already fight others. Of course any other ability with 41m range would kill you too probably, but I think it's a psychological thing. I dislike gankers with a passion, probably coming from how stupid stealth play in this game is (and as you said, the Incap + SA + Executioner from stealth is even worse). The feeling of having had no chance of fighting back is what makes this so infuriating.
@Derra
Exactly. Ageee totally.
"Snipe is annoying" - is that the justification for showing cast bars for all cast time abilities (even for stealthed players) 1s+ prior to the moment any visual/sound cue would normally appear?
Look, I can understand if some vital cues are missing and people need an addon to fix that. That's fine. But read the bolded part and you might see what the real problem is.
Judging from people dodging procced fragments even in melee due to this addon - i don´t think the 1s casttime animation makes a difference except if you´re fighting the juciest potatoes.
Did you even watch the video I posted on the very first post of this thread? It makes an enormous difference.
You still have a chance to land a cast time ability from 15-20m distance against decent players - with this addon that chance disappears. Watch the video.
Well you don´t with magica HA, darkflare or fragments - which is why i think there´s an issue with snipe
There's no issue for me. On the video, you can see/hear the arrow right after the cast time completes and it's ridiculously easy to dodge if it comes from max range (just ask @Ragnaroek93 , I also tried sniping him instead of the other way around).
From close range, visual/audio cues still appear right after cast time completes (as seen/heard on the video), but it's significantly harder to react in time due to shorter travel distance. As it should.
With the addon though? You simply can't get hit anymore, as demonstrated in the video.
If you have an issue hearing an audio/visual cue for an ability, take it up with ZOS. Don't defend cheats that not only provide that cue (which is all you need, based on how I read your posts), but the whole cast bar for the ability.
Well just test it - snipe someone from medium range with only audicue to dodge and then try the same with darkflare/fireheavy with only audiocue to dodge.
I´m pretty sure you´ll find you´ll be 100% able to dodge both magica attacks - while as you stated snipe might hit you.
I clearly care too much to keep posting these, but here's another video:https://youtu.be/9yyp7Uf2Ryg
Showcasing both the Dark Flare+Jav combo (almost impossible to dodge from close distance due to Jav's high travel speed) & just Dark Flares.
What you'll notice is that short range Dark Flare from infront is relatively easy to dodge (just like snipe, as you see the animation), while one from behind is more difficult (but still possible) as you have pretty much only the audio cue to rely on.
Again, exactly the same as Snipe.
Target was not using Miat's obviously, otherwise none of those (including javelins) would've landed.
I´ve never mentioned javelin.
You can snipe and javelin aswell.
That´s an issue with javelin animationspeed though
Maybe watch the latter portion with just Dark Flare then? It's not different at all from a close range Snipe (which won't be comboed with javelin btw, but Acid Spray).
And I want to stress this part:Target was not using Miat's obviously, otherwise none of those (including javelins) would've landed.
Tells you how broken the API and the addons taking advantage of it are.Edited by DDuke on October 4, 2017 3:46PM1 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Be more specific when you state certain aspects of the game - that is very vague.
Additionally who would ever give out this information which clearly gives a massive benefit to using it?. Imagine i bought the game, additionally subscribe and out time/effort into making an addon that does interact to give benefits such as auto cleanse? - There is no incentive for me to give out this information and/or inform ZoS because imagine i would pay all this and then do work that ZoS 'should' be doing?
If you think this your delusional and i mean this to be informative and not personally attacking anyone.
0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I have said this before in this thread. If you find yourself consistently dying from snipes (apart from lagsnipes), you are doing something wrong. Either your situational awareness is subpar, or your reaction time is really slow. Because you shouldn't have to take more than 1 hit before you could break free + block/dodge/shield/heal. After that you turn around and destroy them in 2 hits. If they cloak, pop a stealth detect pot and GG. Snipe spammers are among the most easy targets to kill. They are so attrociously bad most of the time, its hilarious.(or better yet, having ZOS fix the supposed bug which I'm still not convinced even exists).
You realize you´re the only one in this topic saying the snipe souncdcue is fine for you aren´t you?
There are atleast 10 different people that say snipe sound does not work reliably for them.
Everyone has something going on with their ears. That´s why it´s only snipe for most ppl
Even if the sound doesnt go off, if I get hit by a snipe out of nowhere, this is what you do- Breakfree, dodge, heal, flare
- Breakfree, Block, heal, flare
- Breakfree, use damage shield, heal, mage light
- Applies to 1-3 as well. Switch brain to on, and don't go in cruise control through cyro.
Those are three basic things you can do to avoid being shot further from stealth. But no, people need a signal that tells them exactly when to dodge, even when they arent looking at said player. IF you would have to target said player, and they would ahve to be out of stealth for you to see the warning, NO ONE would take issue, because that is like every other mmo, the problem with this one is, and ones like it, it warns you no matter if you are looking at them, or oblivious to your surroundings as a horse with blinders on.
Having said that, I still think Miat's addon shouldn't exist. I have said it before and will say it again. This addon allows you to do things players without the addon cannot: Detect someone charging an attack from INVISIBILITY. For anybody who hadn't figured it out yet, this means you cannot be seen. The reason for striking from invisibility is to attack with surprise, so the other person doesn't know what is coming, UNTIL I fired the attack.
So how can people keep defending the standpoint that detecting a supposedly stealthed attack with an addon is completely fine? This, while completely disregarding all logic and common sense regarding gameplay and stealth mechanics? If you think snipe or stealth attacks are OP, that is a totally different discussion. Don't use this as a reason to justify this ridiculous addon. Especially since you don't even need the addon to cope with snipes from stealth.5 -
Arthg✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not only does this addon give an incredible edge in combat to its users, but it also completely changed the nature of combat on PC EU. Channels or gap-closers that connect are very rare.
How much time can elapse before a new player interested in PvP realizes the addon exists? Weeks, months maybe.
How may that player feel after spending days trying to land abilities only to discover her enemies were, well, aware of everything she was doing?
Seriously, big LOL at all the players defending this crap. There's just no level playing field, it's utter BS.
Let me be clear though: 100% of the blame is on ZOS, for letting this gangrene spread. Coders code, and players stroke their epeens, that's how it's gotta be.
Finally: I'm on PC EU, Sotha Sil DC (less present this month), sitting at AR38, Stam DK, ORC.
Come and get me, I'll show ya'll how to play without Miat. If I beat you, it'll be FAIR N' SQUARE.PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. Pro scrub.7 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I exclusively play noCP. With shields down Snipe can crit for 7k+ on a LA build without impen (granted, that's a player choice). The counters to stealth are not really great.
1. Flare. It's an expensive skill that takes up a precious bar slot and does nothing else than reveal. I can see it's use on a Support build, but outside of that it's simply not good enough.
2. RML. True, it prevents the stun and reduces damage from stealth by 50%. The only downside is you are totally screwed if you want to PvE every day too. Not only the cost of respeccing, but the process of it is very annoying.
3. Detect pots. Apart from the fact that it is unreliable because you may have already used the CD it's a tool only for the follow up after you survived the gank. It doesn't do anything to prevent it.
Again, not complaining. Just stating that stealth is just badly implemented and therefore I can see why people just outright hate it.
Sure, I hate being ganked too, but it is part of the game, and it is here to stay, I would never say " well screw them, they dont deserve to play the game " though. That is just selfish.3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Then where are the bug report threads, threads of people complaining about Snipe?
People on consoles don't have access to this addon (or any other addon) and seem to be having no problems with snipe.
It sounds to me that people are just coming up with excuses for cheats that are beneficial for them to exist.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361862/four-focussed-aims-in-a-second/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330866/zos-fix-snipe/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/353780/will-you-ever-fix-the-snipe-lag-glitch
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316933/macroslice-and-snipe-glitching-needs-to-die
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311330/snipe-glitching-needs-to-go
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373513/whats-with-the-snipe-poison-injection-insta-kill/p1
That's just a small selection of threads from this year. There are a lot more, some quite old, so many players probably gave up on reporting and just accept that those issues won't get fixed ever.
Why would i make up things to defend something i don't like and don't use?
That's just a bunch of people complaining about lag - I've been on the receiving end of multiple variations of that (Dark Flares, jbeams, wrecking blows etc etc).
Sucks, but it has nothing to do with the skill itself and no addon saves you from that.As I have done my time in the penalty box and allowed to post again...
@DDuke
You are on Sotha Sil EU and don't encounter anyone sniping? Just go to any outpost defense. There you have at least 10 people perched on the crest sniping away happily. I also experience many players sniping from the middle of the 50+ EP Zerg. I'll concede that a player using snipe won't get another player down with just snipe if the victim is not afk and not engaged elsewhere. It's still very common that you get sniped from somewhere when you already fight others. Of course any other ability with 41m range would kill you too probably, but I think it's a psychological thing. I dislike gankers with a passion, probably coming from how stupid stealth play in this game is (and as you said, the Incap + SA + Executioner from stealth is even worse). The feeling of having had no chance of fighting back is what makes this so infuriating.
@Derra
Exactly. Ageee totally.
"Snipe is annoying" - is that the justification for showing cast bars for all cast time abilities (even for stealthed players) 1s+ prior to the moment any visual/sound cue would normally appear?
Look, I can understand if some vital cues are missing and people need an addon to fix that. That's fine. But read the bolded part and you might see what the real problem is.
Judging from people dodging procced fragments even in melee due to this addon - i don´t think the 1s casttime animation makes a difference except if you´re fighting the juciest potatoes.
Did you even watch the video I posted on the very first post of this thread? It makes an enormous difference.
You still have a chance to land a cast time ability from 15-20m distance against decent players - with this addon that chance disappears. Watch the video.
Well you don´t with magica HA, darkflare or fragments - which is why i think there´s an issue with snipe
There's no issue for me. On the video, you can see/hear the arrow right after the cast time completes and it's ridiculously easy to dodge if it comes from max range (just ask @Ragnaroek93 , I also tried sniping him instead of the other way around).
From close range, visual/audio cues still appear right after cast time completes (as seen/heard on the video), but it's significantly harder to react in time due to shorter travel distance. As it should.
With the addon though? You simply can't get hit anymore, as demonstrated in the video.
If you have an issue hearing an audio/visual cue for an ability, take it up with ZOS. Don't defend cheats that not only provide that cue (which is all you need, based on how I read your posts), but the whole cast bar for the ability.
Well just test it - snipe someone from medium range with only audicue to dodge and then try the same with darkflare/fireheavy with only audiocue to dodge.
I´m pretty sure you´ll find you´ll be 100% able to dodge both magica attacks - while as you stated snipe might hit you.
I clearly care too much to keep posting these, but here's another video:https://youtu.be/9yyp7Uf2Ryg
Showcasing both the Dark Flare+Jav combo (almost impossible to dodge from close distance due to Jav's high travel speed) & just Dark Flares.
What you'll notice is that short range Dark Flare from infront is relatively easy to dodge (just like snipe, as you see the animation), while one from behind is more difficult (but still possible) as you have pretty much only the audio cue to rely on.
Again, exactly the same as Snipe.
Target was not using Miat's obviously, otherwise none of those (including javelins) would've landed.
I´ve never mentioned javelin.
You can snipe and javelin aswell.
That´s an issue with javelin animationspeed though
Maybe watch the latter portion with just Dark Flare then? It's not different at all from a close range Snipe (which won't be comboed with javelin btw, but Acid Spray).
And I want to stress this part:Target was not using Miat's obviously, otherwise none of those (including javelins) would've landed.
Tells you how broken the API and the addons taking advantage of it are.
I´ve just tested it with cyndis - i´ve dodged every darkflare he shot at me.
I can´t do the same with snipe for whatever reason.
Maybe my hearing or my brain is impaired - but i literally can´t dodge the snipe when i can with darkflare.Edited by Derra on October 4, 2017 4:02PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »I'm not complaining and will play my Sorc until they shut the servers down. I'm simply stating that I can see why one would like the notification (I don't use that part of the addon). Stealth play is just so badly implemented in this game that I don't crucify players for seeking ways to lessen its impact.
Thats the thing. All the things here, the bad and the good are part of very complex system. Removing one had severe impact.
So while people like Derra here can finally breathe, because 1% of all the problems they have is removed by this addon.
I am literally unable to play 2 of my 3 characters. I had pretty good success before 1T patch with bow nightblade and I dont mean ganking. I was able to small scale and duel with snipe as main hitting ability because I was allowed to outplay opponents. Cloak/shade/trees/rocks/... allowed me to hide snipe cast or reposition myself behind target. Sure, that was when you could use medium armor with 19k hp and go full damage. Sure it did not work on the best players (but why it should). Since Miat? That characters if crafter. Nothing else. I could take him to PVP and just snipe away at people from keep or stealth. But I could have killed potatoes that cant even dodge or cc break even before. Now its the only thing that snipe can kill.
The only thing I am allowed to play with bow is warden. Allowed being operative word, because it literally took undodgeable ability to do that. I have to sacrifice so much damage to get sustain, because even if bulk of my damage is not affected by Miat, I still cant use heavy attacks to restore my resources. Because everyone better than potato will dodge it.
That's why ZoS never intended for enemy cast times to have icons with timers. They wanted you to see and hear what's going on and play accordingly, as that matches the camera+controls they are using for the game.
A certain amount of human error, grants more flexibility in builds and playstyles.
Miats gives you the ability to see cast times from your target which was intended to be done with your eyes and ears. It also shows you the direction of keeps and if there are any enemies around in the area, both of which are intended for you to use limited UI services like the map and a little situational expectation that enemies will be near the keeps on the front lines so plan accordingly.
Right before launch, Sage had removed an add-on that saw your targets Stam/mag. That alone should tell you the intent they want out of their API.
But it is up to ZoS, I honestly don't think they care enough of PvP to justify making their team spend time on a segment of the game that doesn't make them money. It would be a crazy time for them to dive under the hood to patch the API for each add-on that's created in PvP. That's why they banned the add-on that looked at your teams dps; it was impacting pve players significantly in a negative way.
They will need to ban all add-ons in PvP, as a majority of them show information that was never intended (except those buff timers they just added. But then again they are very simple icons and can be hard to read versus other add-ons that show buffs.)
I don't know how Miat's isn't seen as an advantage over someone not using his or a similar addon. On your screen it tells you of an incoming range attack (like poison injection) clear as day, and he dodge rolls. He built his build to have plenty of roll juice. Seems like a simple argument to me. Miat's addon significantly reduces chance for player error or need for awareness in certain situations. NOT TO MENTION, there was a time when Miat was using his addon and it told him of enemy players stealthed around him, how many, and I believe even gave him their names. Completely made the stealth element of combat for those players mean nothing when going up against anyone using that addon. Did those players even know that they were going up against someone using the addon?
ZOS needs to revisit addons and API and more strongly define for all of us what is allowable and what is considered crossing the line.
People like Miat, and people that defend miats are a certain type of person. They think they need to have every advantage, and only their playstyle matters. Everyone else be damned. You can't, obviously, reason with them.9 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
So because someone officially says something is ok, it by your logic isn't inherintly wrong. So, by this logic, stoning people to death in countries where it is legal, makes it ok. It IS legal afterall.
Gotcha. I understand you people now.Edited by Jade1986 on October 4, 2017 4:06PM3
This discussion has been closed.