Maintenance for the week of January 6:
· [IN PROGRESS] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
· [IN PROGRESS] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
· [IN PROGRESS] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
· [IN PROGRESS] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!
-
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Sure, I hate being ganked too, but it is part of the game, and it is here to stay, I would never say " well screw them, they dont deserve to play the game " though. That is just selfish.
Hence why I say that stealth is just a design failure on ZOS side. Before Morrowind it was even worse with stealth getting bonus damage just because. As most stealthy players are NBs they still get a guaranteed crit (if they use shadowy disguise) and a guaranteed stun if the player isn't CC immune. On top of the advantage of jumping someone I just find that's too much.
Snipe is just an offender you commonly see on death recaps as the Skyrim fanbois somehow really like to play one and want to oneshot everything with it like they could there. And yes, the feeling of power it gives if you have an opponent "at your mercy" adds to the attractiveness of the play style. In reality all that Incap + SA + Execute crap from stealth is far far worse.
You'll always have people complain about stealth play if it is implemented like we have on ESO. It has taken ZOS a full 3,5 years to finally tone down stealth a bit. So I don't expect any further changes. That's why I can understand the addon and its appeal. It wouldn't be used if it didn't hit a venue. Every Miat's user just basically says "screw stealth" in big letters. And that's where I would start thinking, not about the addon itself.
Again, a snipe gank isn't lethal unless you are on your horse or already engaged. I share @Derra s sentiment though that there are few things more infuriating than a sniper when you're already fighting outnumbered.
Edited for typos.
It isnt just snipe that gets effected, all charge up and channel abilities do. This add on is pure cancer, and people who support it's mindset is also pure cancer
I think sneak and stealth gameplay is pure cancer
what you gonna do - zos does nothing about both
Stealth can be countered with multiple methods, miats is a death sentence for all ranged builds. That is the difference.4 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here's a good little tidbit from 2014 (my quick searching have brought up anything more recent regarding design intent for API access/UI giving visual ques):
"Our changes to the API were exclusively about keeping the playing field as level as we could in a competitive environment, not about keeping the game immersive or trying to make sure people could not see numbers. However, it is certainly true we don’t natively add icons to show buffs and display timers. You might ask why?
First, we feel a clean and unobtrusive UI is a key part of The Elder Scrolls Online. We have worked to keep many things off the screen that were not absolutely necessary. As an example, we have broken down buffs and debuffs into a few key effects. If you puncture armor, you can see that overlayed on the health bar of your opponent as a “cracked” graphic. If you or your opponent is powered up, you will see a bright aura around the health bar. If you are suffering from a DOT, you will see arrows representing a decrease overlayed on your health bar. Further, we have animation, sounds, and particle effects in world to give you further clues as to what is happening. We believe these actually represent your state and that of your opponents much more clearly than icons. But why not have icons?
To put it simply, icons are for another game with different controls and a different purpose. The controls of our game naturally tie mouse movement and looking around the world together in a mechanism reminiscent of previous Elder Scrolls games. We don’t have a free mouse where you can get information about what the icons represent by hovering over them in the heat of battle. Also, showing timers through icons isn’t what we wanted. Part of the skill in ESO is situational awareness and seeing when events are happening in the world and in some cases on the UI. Another reason we don’t show buff/debuff icons is that icons appearing and disappearing on the screen looked bad, especially considering ESO has shorter duration debuffs and buffs that would be constantly appearing and disappearing."
The last sentence is interesting, considering the UI interface zos balances the game for had the design intent that they feel sounds+ animations are the intended purpose to tracking your enemy. Anything else, according to Sage, was the opposite of skillful play, and not the intended purpose of the game.
I haven't seen anything recent explaining intent for why a vanilla UI in ESO is important.
Now compare this whole paragraph and the idea that it represents to the recent combat animation removal and MIAT's addon.
This doesnt give me hope about PVP's future at all.Edited by Ankael07 on October 4, 2017 9:26PMIf you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Sure, I hate being ganked too, but it is part of the game, and it is here to stay, I would never say " well screw them, they dont deserve to play the game " though. That is just selfish.
Hence why I say that stealth is just a design failure on ZOS side. Before Morrowind it was even worse with stealth getting bonus damage just because. As most stealthy players are NBs they still get a guaranteed crit (if they use shadowy disguise) and a guaranteed stun if the player isn't CC immune. On top of the advantage of jumping someone I just find that's too much.
Snipe is just an offender you commonly see on death recaps as the Skyrim fanbois somehow really like to play one and want to oneshot everything with it like they could there. And yes, the feeling of power it gives if you have an opponent "at your mercy" adds to the attractiveness of the play style. In reality all that Incap + SA + Execute crap from stealth is far far worse.
You'll always have people complain about stealth play if it is implemented like we have on ESO. It has taken ZOS a full 3,5 years to finally tone down stealth a bit. So I don't expect any further changes. That's why I can understand the addon and its appeal. It wouldn't be used if it didn't hit a venue. Every Miat's user just basically says "screw stealth" in big letters. And that's where I would start thinking, not about the addon itself.
Again, a snipe gank isn't lethal unless you are on your horse or already engaged. I share @Derra s sentiment though that there are few things more infuriating than a sniper when you're already fighting outnumbered.
Edited for typos.
It isnt just snipe that gets effected, all charge up and channel abilities do. This add on is pure cancer, and people who support it's mindset is also pure cancer
I think sneak and stealth gameplay is pure cancer
what you gonna do - zos does nothing about both
How full of *** are you?
Should I start listing the amount of times stealth has been nerfed in this game? The list is really, really F'in long.
You don't like stealth, fine. Go find yourself a game that doesn't allow it instead of trying to change this one and ruin it for people who have been playing it for years.
I think i have more time invested in this game than you do - and now "ya dare comin into my house..."
I don´t have a problem with gankers per se. I have a problem with permanent sneak/stealth and soloplay that does not revolve around sneak/stealth.
I think it harms the game more than this addon does.
In the end it´s just opinions no need to get angry. Eventually it´ll get resolved.
It´s kinda funny seing you go nuts though
Edit: I can play around this addon specifically using a casttime skill. Bow can´t admittedly - but bow as a main weapon has never been vaible as the sole source of dmg for the reason that casttime skills themselves are not vaible due to numerous instant interrupts in the game.Edited by Derra on October 4, 2017 9:41PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Sure, I hate being ganked too, but it is part of the game, and it is here to stay, I would never say " well screw them, they dont deserve to play the game " though. That is just selfish.
Hence why I say that stealth is just a design failure on ZOS side. Before Morrowind it was even worse with stealth getting bonus damage just because. As most stealthy players are NBs they still get a guaranteed crit (if they use shadowy disguise) and a guaranteed stun if the player isn't CC immune. On top of the advantage of jumping someone I just find that's too much.
Snipe is just an offender you commonly see on death recaps as the Skyrim fanbois somehow really like to play one and want to oneshot everything with it like they could there. And yes, the feeling of power it gives if you have an opponent "at your mercy" adds to the attractiveness of the play style. In reality all that Incap + SA + Execute crap from stealth is far far worse.
You'll always have people complain about stealth play if it is implemented like we have on ESO. It has taken ZOS a full 3,5 years to finally tone down stealth a bit. So I don't expect any further changes. That's why I can understand the addon and its appeal. It wouldn't be used if it didn't hit a venue. Every Miat's user just basically says "screw stealth" in big letters. And that's where I would start thinking, not about the addon itself.
Again, a snipe gank isn't lethal unless you are on your horse or already engaged. I share @Derra s sentiment though that there are few things more infuriating than a sniper when you're already fighting outnumbered.
Edited for typos.
It isnt just snipe that gets effected, all charge up and channel abilities do. This add on is pure cancer, and people who support it's mindset is also pure cancer
I think sneak and stealth gameplay is pure cancer
what you gonna do - zos does nothing about both
Stealth can be countered with multiple methods, miats is a death sentence for all ranged builds. That is the difference.
I play two ranged builds (NB and sorc) and work on a third - aaand it´s not...
stealth in itself can not be countered when the problem is players being permanently invisible and joining already ongoing fights from said invisibility.
You simply can´t assess a situation properly because you never know how many players in sneak will add you.Edited by Derra on October 4, 2017 9:37PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
I made a new thread (I haven't personally created any regarding this addon previously, though I've posted in several) because nothing is being done about it - and I will keep creating new ones and keep posting until this has thousands of pages unless I'm either banned from the forums or a change happens.
Also, most of the other threads complain about addon, while the problem lies in the API. Getting rid of the addon (which also has many other functions that don't ruin the game for others) solves nothing as long as these kinds of cheats are allowed by the API.InvitationNotFound wrote: »I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
And no, maybe they aren't considered "cheats" by ZOS's definition (hence this thread), but they sure are from my perspective (and from the perspective of majority of people I'd say).
triggered?
InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
I don't think ZoS has time to properly review the add-on against their design intent for the animation/audio cue system. And they aren't going to review it in more detail for just PC users when consoles don't have any add-ons.
It's not that they consider it fine or illegal, PvP is too small, too niche, and doesn't generate enough revenue to justify allocating a few employees to dive in there and start ripping out wires.
exactly this addon was already mentioned in several threads. they did review the api because of this addon. they made changes because of this addon. i highly doubt they didn't notice that functionality.InvitationNotFound wrote: »The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Be more specific when you state certain aspects of the game - that is very vague.
Additionally who would ever give out this information which clearly gives a massive benefit to using it?. Imagine i bought the game, additionally subscribe and out time/effort into making an addon that does interact to give benefits such as auto cleanse? - There is no incentive for me to give out this information and/or inform ZoS because imagine i would pay all this and then do work that ZoS 'should' be doing?
If you think this your delusional and i mean this to be informative and not personally attacking anyone.
you can download the lua code that comes with the game. you have an API list. furthermore, you have a zos statement on how the api works and what has implemented. take a look at it. it all contradicts with the statement of the one who wrote about such addons. if you (respectively the one who wrote it) make such claims, you (respectively he) should provide evidence. so whoever makes such claims should provide the evidence. and i'm not saying it is technically not possible, but it certainly isn't without a third party application or some sort of bug / vulnerability in their lua handling.InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
So because someone officially says something is ok, it by your logic isn't inherintly wrong. So, by this logic, stoning people to death in countries where it is legal, makes it ok. It IS legal afterall.
Gotcha. I understand you people now.
Wrong, it is not what i said. I simply said it is not cheating. and it isn't.
However, your opinion is your opinion and i never said it is about other's opinion. you may feel about whatever you want.
I just compared to another issue and how it got handled and consider multiple such threads meaningless as they won't change anything.
Some people in those countries wouldnt consider it murder though, because it is legal. So even if this is tolerated by ZoS, it is still cheating. Regardless of what you say, or what your twisted sense of logic and right and wrong says.
well, i could say the same about you regarding the right and wrong. I mean you simply claim it is cheating because you don't like it. Fact is that ZOS is fine with it. It is working as intended. Everyone is free to use such addons or use that API. If such features are influencing any play style it is by design. if it is by design it isn't cheating.
you simply go about your feelings because it might affect your play style. that's why you call it cheating, not because there's any sense behind it. and don't get me wrong at this point. i don't say you can't be pissed about it or you must like it or whatever (personally i don't care much if they change the api or not). that is completely up to you. but technically seen, it is not cheating. go tell someone who animation cancels the crap out of the game and tell him he's a cheater. it is exactly the same, it's just stupid. (and theoretically ac is worse as it is an accepted bug, whereas this has been a design choice)We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR0 -
Shadowshire✭✭✭✭
Whether something is "fair" is not a matter of "logic". "Fairness" is a social value.Instead of making yet another QQ Miat's thread, maybe you should read the other 10,000 threads about it, and then you'd know why it's allowed.
Just because it is allowed, does not mean it is right, or fair.
End of the day, it is a unfair advantage.
But then I can imagine the sheer extent of scum bag players with no honour who would use them, but never mind, it is a QQ to you is it not?
Each to their own.
Personally I prefer killing opponents with skill and not relying on cheat like crutch addons like Miats stuff.
By that logic, I can say that animation cancelation should not be allowed either and should be completely removed.
It's also funny how no one says anything about streamers using miats, but you all *** hug them like they're great, when in reality they're nothing.
Animation cancelling exploits a flaw in the software design and/or implementation which should be rectified, like any other "bug". And features of the API which enable players to obtain data which they should not be able to obtain are API design oversights which should also be rectified.
Look at Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft API sometime. You will find a huge number of original API functions that are limited to use by the Blizzard developers only. All of them were originally available to every add-on creator. The API was such a full-featured set that players could develop an add-on that would essentially turn their player character into a "robot", able to do anything that a player could do.
--- Shadowshire .......... ESO Plus on PC NA with Windows 7 Pro SP1
nil carborundum illegitimi1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Sure, I hate being ganked too, but it is part of the game, and it is here to stay, I would never say " well screw them, they dont deserve to play the game " though. That is just selfish.
Hence why I say that stealth is just a design failure on ZOS side. Before Morrowind it was even worse with stealth getting bonus damage just because. As most stealthy players are NBs they still get a guaranteed crit (if they use shadowy disguise) and a guaranteed stun if the player isn't CC immune. On top of the advantage of jumping someone I just find that's too much.
Snipe is just an offender you commonly see on death recaps as the Skyrim fanbois somehow really like to play one and want to oneshot everything with it like they could there. And yes, the feeling of power it gives if you have an opponent "at your mercy" adds to the attractiveness of the play style. In reality all that Incap + SA + Execute crap from stealth is far far worse.
You'll always have people complain about stealth play if it is implemented like we have on ESO. It has taken ZOS a full 3,5 years to finally tone down stealth a bit. So I don't expect any further changes. That's why I can understand the addon and its appeal. It wouldn't be used if it didn't hit a venue. Every Miat's user just basically says "screw stealth" in big letters. And that's where I would start thinking, not about the addon itself.
Again, a snipe gank isn't lethal unless you are on your horse or already engaged. I share @Derra s sentiment though that there are few things more infuriating than a sniper when you're already fighting outnumbered.
Edited for typos.
It isnt just snipe that gets effected, all charge up and channel abilities do. This add on is pure cancer, and people who support it's mindset is also pure cancer
I think sneak and stealth gameplay is pure cancer
what you gonna do - zos does nothing about both
How full of *** are you?
Should I start listing the amount of times stealth has been nerfed in this game? The list is really, really F'in long.
You don't like stealth, fine. Go find yourself a game that doesn't allow it instead of trying to change this one and ruin it for people who have been playing it for years.
I think i have more time invested in this game than you do - and now "ya dare comin into my house..."
Well it sure doesn't sound like that, considering how many times I've had to prove you wrong so far.
For the record, here's how many time stealth has been [snip ]in this game:
Patch 1.1.2.
Patch 1.5.2.Death Stroke: This ability no longer receives the critical damage bonus when used as a sneak attack. It will still cause a stun and a guaranteed critical hit.
Patch 2.1.4Reduced the amount of bonus damage provided by stealthed attacks against other player characters.
Note that stealthed attacks are still always critical strikes that stun your target.
Patch 2.2.11Expert Hunter:
This ability is no longer multiplied by the stealth critical damage bonus if it is used before entering stealth, it will now behave consistently if used before or after entering stealth.
Patch 2.3.5Fighters Guild
Camouflaged Hunter (Expert Hunter morph): Fixed an issue where this ability could proc multiple times with a Dual Wield Heavy Attack.Magelight can now be activated to summon a mote of magelight which exposes hidden or invisible enemies in a 6 meter radius for 5 seconds, and prevents revealed enemies from returning to stealth for 3 seconds.The Radiant Magelight morph will continue to prevent you from being stunned by stealth attacks, and will reduce damage from stealth attacks while slotted as a morph effect. Activating it also increases the radius of the activated reveal to 12 meters, and reduces the cost.
Patch 2.4.5Dark Cloak (Shadow Cloak morph): This morph no longer removes damage over time effects due to the baseline changes for Shadow Cloak described below; instead, it grants the Minor Protection buff for 2/3/4/5 seconds after the invisibility ends at Ranks I/II/III/IV respectively.
Shadow Cloak: This ability and its morphs will now suppress damage over time effects that are already applied to the caster while the invisibility is active.
The damage over time will remain, but will tick for 0 damage if you are invisible, and will tick for the normal damage if you come out of invisibility.
Patch 2.5.5Expert Hunter: Redesigned this ability and its morphs so they no longer grant a small chance to deal additional bonus damage; instead, they can be activated to reveal hidden or invisible enemies in a 6 meter radius for 5 seconds, and prevents revealed enemies from returning to stealth for 3 seconds.
Patch 2.6.5Assault
Vigor: This ability and its morphs will now remove you from sneak or invisibility when cast.
Patch 3.0.5Soul Strike:
This ability can no longer can be purged or interrupted, but can now be blocked.
You will now be immune to CC while channeling this ability.
Increased the damage from this ability by 15%.
This ability now prevents your target from entering stealth and invisibility for 2 seconds.Fixed an issue where abilities and bonuses that allow you to ignore the Movement Speed penalty from sneak would stack, causing you to sneak at extremely high speeds.Sneak attacks no longer grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against other players. Sneak attacks will continue to guarantee a Critical Strike and stun the target, and will also still grant a bonus to Critical Damage when used against monsters.Stygian: This item set no longer increases your Spell Damage and Max Magicka by 20% while sneaking or invisible; instead, it increases your damage done with Magicka abilities by 20% while sneaking or invisible.I don´t have a problem with gankers per se. I have a problem with permanent sneak/stealth and soloplay that does not revolve around sneak/stealth.
I think it harms the game more than this addon does.
You don't have a problem with them, but somehow they harm the game more than an addon that removes entire playstyles and forces everyone into playing some *** meta unkillable tank builds? Cool.In the end it´s just opinions no need to get angry. Eventually it´ll get resolved.
Will it? This has been in the game for multiple patch cycles already. As I wrote in my original post, enough is enough.It´s kinda funny seing you go nuts though
You'd go nuts too if you saw that the only obstacle between actually playing a fun, unique build next patch and another patch cycle spent logging in to do writs & logging off is some *** API that should've been fixed ages ago.
I am not going to spend another patch cycle logging in for writs & logging off. That's just not an option.Edit: I can play around this addon specifically using a casttime skill. Bow can´t admittedly - but bow as a main weapon has never been vaible as the sole source of dmg for the reason that casttime skills themselves are not vaible due to numerous instant interrupts in the game.
Your "cast time skill" is crystal frag, hardly a cast time ability.
Bow has been viable source of damage. Not for years, but it was in 2014 (I have videos of this on my channel, including duels vs players like Mage).
Now it has a chance of being viable again (proven on PTS), but is being prevented by the game's API. How stupid is that?
[Edited to remove profanity]Edited by ZOS_KatP on October 24, 2017 9:25PM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »InvitationNotFound wrote: »InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
I made a new thread (I haven't personally created any regarding this addon previously, though I've posted in several) because nothing is being done about it - and I will keep creating new ones and keep posting until this has thousands of pages unless I'm either banned from the forums or a change happens.
Also, most of the other threads complain about addon, while the problem lies in the API. Getting rid of the addon (which also has many other functions that don't ruin the game for others) solves nothing as long as these kinds of cheats are allowed by the API.InvitationNotFound wrote: »I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
And no, maybe they aren't considered "cheats" by ZOS's definition (hence this thread), but they sure are from my perspective (and from the perspective of majority of people I'd say).
triggered?InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
I don't think ZoS has time to properly review the add-on against their design intent for the animation/audio cue system. And they aren't going to review it in more detail for just PC users when consoles don't have any add-ons.
It's not that they consider it fine or illegal, PvP is too small, too niche, and doesn't generate enough revenue to justify allocating a few employees to dive in there and start ripping out wires.
exactly this addon was already mentioned in several threads. they did review the api because of this addon. they made changes because of this addon. i highly doubt they didn't notice that functionality.InvitationNotFound wrote: »The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Be more specific when you state certain aspects of the game - that is very vague.
Additionally who would ever give out this information which clearly gives a massive benefit to using it?. Imagine i bought the game, additionally subscribe and out time/effort into making an addon that does interact to give benefits such as auto cleanse? - There is no incentive for me to give out this information and/or inform ZoS because imagine i would pay all this and then do work that ZoS 'should' be doing?
If you think this your delusional and i mean this to be informative and not personally attacking anyone.
you can download the lua code that comes with the game. you have an API list. furthermore, you have a zos statement on how the api works and what has implemented. take a look at it. it all contradicts with the statement of the one who wrote about such addons. if you (respectively the one who wrote it) make such claims, you (respectively he) should provide evidence. so whoever makes such claims should provide the evidence. and i'm not saying it is technically not possible, but it certainly isn't without a third party application or some sort of bug / vulnerability in their lua handling.InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
So because someone officially says something is ok, it by your logic isn't inherintly wrong. So, by this logic, stoning people to death in countries where it is legal, makes it ok. It IS legal afterall.
Gotcha. I understand you people now.
Wrong, it is not what i said. I simply said it is not cheating. and it isn't.
However, your opinion is your opinion and i never said it is about other's opinion. you may feel about whatever you want.
I just compared to another issue and how it got handled and consider multiple such threads meaningless as they won't change anything.
Some people in those countries wouldnt consider it murder though, because it is legal. So even if this is tolerated by ZoS, it is still cheating. Regardless of what you say, or what your twisted sense of logic and right and wrong says.
well, i could say the same about you regarding the right and wrong. I mean you simply claim it is cheating because you don't like it. Fact is that ZOS is fine with it. It is working as intended. Everyone is free to use such addons or use that API. If such features are influencing any play style it is by design. if it is by design it isn't cheating.
you simply go about your feelings because it might affect your play style. that's why you call it cheating, not because there's any sense behind it. and don't get me wrong at this point. i don't say you can't be pissed about it or you must like it or whatever (personally i don't care much if they change the api or not). that is completely up to you. but technically seen, it is not cheating. go tell someone who animation cancels the crap out of the game and tell him he's a cheater. it is exactly the same, it's just stupid. (and theoretically ac is worse as it is an accepted bug, whereas this has been a design choice)
"By design", is that how all the bugs & exploits also wind up in the game?
Fact is that people make mistakes and not everything is by design.
Leaving these API functions available to the public is a mistake, there's no question about that.Edited by DDuke on October 4, 2017 10:27PM0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke
Adding obvious bug fixes like Camo Hunter et al. to that list is a bit disingenuous. Or do you actually happen to think bug fixes are nerfs to stealth play?
If anything your list shows how completely ridiculous stealth was before some of these changes. And it still is. But, of course, cloak doesn't work 90% of the times and we just shouldn't use crutches.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke
Adding obvious bug fixes like Camo Hunter et al. to that list is a bit disingenuous. Or do you actually happen to think bug fixes are nerfs to stealth play?
If anything your list shows how completely ridiculous stealth was before some of these changes. And it still is. But, of course, cloak doesn't work 90% of the times and we just shouldn't use crutches.
Generally no, but selective bug fixing targeting stealth while doing nothing about the ridiculous amount of bugs plaguing cloak? Yeah.
If you still today have a problem with stealth gankers in this game, you might want to uninstall & go play something less challenging, like checkers.Edited by DDuke on October 4, 2017 10:35PM1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So Camo Hunter one shots should have stayed in the game because cloak sometimes bugs out? Ah. Ok. Listen, we all get you want to play your archer with a bow as main weapon really badly. No need to insult others.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭I cant believe so many people have a problem with stealth.
It IS and HAS been bugged for the longest time. Problem with stealth is easily countered via many skills in game and potions (OP magika potion with no stam equivalent).
I feel people want to walk around, full divines blissfully unaware, not use any of the games stealth counters and want to see the enemy approaching from maximum draw distance. If this was so then cloak/stealthing would never have been in ESO.
Additional to this adding in a separate addon, that was private and functioning even worse before ZoS looked at the API, isnt available to all - How many new players to PvP start with this information and/or Miatts addon, which clearly gives the advantage to people already using it and how many newer players think people must be cheating to suddenly jump off the horse in the middle of field and roll dodge buff up when targeted.
Disgrace ZoS allows this to functional in my opinion.1 -
the pvp already sucks...you do not need to get worse by helping gankers -.-DC|EP|AD EU .:. Claymore - all classes DK/Sorc/Nb/templar .: Retired :.
DC NA server with 400 ping - DKs Vraccàs
Philosophy of the poor .: "What you cannot beat ..zerg him " :.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »Disable addons in PVP. They are only used to gain "unfair" advantages.
I hope you're not serious about that.
Imagine if Skyshards didn't work in Cyrodiil (so many people would complain).
It would be more reasonable to restrict what data is available from certain API functions whilst the user is in a player-vs-player area.
Folks will complain no matter what but google covers skyshards pretty well.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭the game self gives enough cues, when somebody is attacking you. dodging and avoiding enemies attacks by the cues of the game itself is called skill. using an addon, which shows cast time abilities that big in your screen shouldnt be in this game (guess why cast time abilities are garbage and nobody likes them). animation cancelling isnt unfair, because it is a skill-based advantage to the better player, nothing less. but getting hit 5 times in one second is cheating, based on macros. pls know the difference.
So actually i would appreciate some changes or banning regarding those kind of addons in pvp. for all pve players, there are plenty of addons working this way for trials but are disabled in pvp. thats the way it should be.
Oh, for crying out loud.
Getting hit 5 times in one second is either lag, or lined-up burst with delayed effect abilities. Macros cannot overcome the global cooldown either.
PLS KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.
Get em.Power Wealth And Influence.1 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Always amazes me that people defend cheating and blind themselves saying it is “not cheating”
6 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well it sure doesn't sound like that, considering how many times I've had to prove you wrong so far.
I can´t think how you proved me wrong so far? As far as i´m concerned nothing about this can be really backed up by hard facts.
All you did was post a video with darkflare - which when i tried to reproduce it i was able to dodge 100% from an enemy as close as possible in my back from sneak and without sneak.
Which i can´t do with snipe.
So anything about this seems to be anecdotal at best. The only evidence i can present for my point is dozens of topics complaining about snipe in lag/1vX etc pp mixed with my personal experience that snipe is the only casttime skill with a soundcue giving me issues.
This is opposed by your anecdotal experience that snipe has never given you issues (even when there were times where snipe healthdesync without sounds was an aknowledged bug by zos... - ok well maybe you didn´t play back then).
I don´t say i can´t dodge snipe sound at all. I´m saying that snipe is the only skill that i reliably can not hear when fighting more than one opponent.
As far as sneak nerfs go - and? What did it help? You still have players waiting in sneak for 10 minutes at a resource. Sadly not only NBs but also the 30k+ hp heavyarmor tankplars DKs and whatsoever you´re loathing so much.
So what did the sneak nerfs do? They made ganking harder to almost impossible now - which is good imo.
They however did nothing to alliviate the issues permanent sneak/stealth on any class or spec brings into the game.
Imo they should have adressed permanent sneak (constant stamina cost while not moving aswell) instead of the killing power of gank builds - which would have promoted a more intelligent approach to stealth gameplay in general and offered itemisation choices towards that.
What was and what wasn´t vaible for dueling back in 2014 is quite frankly said 100% irrelevant by now.
If i were to duel any player from back then with what i know about the game now i´d stomp them. I´d stomp myself aswell.
Try dueling now and try to make bow as a main weapon vaible - i don´t think it´s currently possible and i don´t think it should be possible in the way you´re implying asylum bow might make it (20+ snipes hellooo).
The game has evolved - the players have evolved. I´d love to play doubleresto in sorc again. I´ve won duels with that aswell against noteable players. But this is not 2014 jon snow eso edition anymore.
Instead of adapting to what the game is now you´re living in the past of glory ganking days where you could oneshot basically everything with one hand under the table.
Yet you have the audacy to tell me i´m not affected by this addon because my only skill affected basically is frags. Well coincidentally that´s a sorcs main burst and cc (also the only one i have currently). Which is coincidentally alongside fiery reach and javeline a projectile without a soundcue so affected 100 times worse than anything that´s supposed to be heared.
So loosing my main burst and cc isn´t really being affected but those poor people spamming snipe from a wall are? With deepest respect -get real, honestly.
We both know you´re so invested in the topic because the thought alone of oneshotting people which you´ll later sell as skillful play bc "they could have just dodged" (which they can´t bc of sneak stun if you time it right) with asylumbow snipe into acidspray is giving you the kicks already.
And i honestly hope for the good of the game (and a little bit out of spite now aswell) that if this addon gets touched regarding that functionality that this form of not yet implemented ganking gets nerfed before it sees the light of day.
Edited by Derra on October 5, 2017 6:30AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadowshire wrote: »
Whether something is "fair" is not a matter of "logic". "Fairness" is a social value.Instead of making yet another QQ Miat's thread, maybe you should read the other 10,000 threads about it, and then you'd know why it's allowed.
Just because it is allowed, does not mean it is right, or fair.
End of the day, it is a unfair advantage.
But then I can imagine the sheer extent of scum bag players with no honour who would use them, but never mind, it is a QQ to you is it not?
Each to their own.
Personally I prefer killing opponents with skill and not relying on cheat like crutch addons like Miats stuff.
By that logic, I can say that animation cancelation should not be allowed either and should be completely removed.
It's also funny how no one says anything about streamers using miats, but you all *** hug them like they're great, when in reality they're nothing.
Animation cancelling exploits a flaw in the software design and/or implementation which should be rectified, like any other "bug". And features of the API which enable players to obtain data which they should not be able to obtain are API design oversights which should also be rectified.
Look at Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft API sometime. You will find a huge number of original API functions that are limited to use by the Blizzard developers only. All of them were originally available to every add-on creator. The API was such a full-featured set that players could develop an add-on that would essentially turn their player character into a "robot", able to do anything that a player could do.
The API is already restricted. There are functions that are only available to ZOS or can only be used outside of a fight.
It was the choice of ZOS that the function we're talking about is accessible. And it is not that they aren't aware of it. As i mentioned earlier, they already have reviewed this addon and made changes to the API.
Btw. i think i saw a defcon / blackhat or ccc talk (not sure about which it was, but some sort of it security conference) where someone demonstrated his wow bot written with purely API functions if i remember correctly. This shouldn't be possible here as (if such functions are even exposed) are restricted.
I completely agree with bugs being fixed, which rarely happens at ZOS, unfortunately. Yet, under the given circumstances i don't consider this a bug (and if it is, it is like AC - accepted (unfortunately, in that case)). Anyway, my point here is that there is no reason to call someone cheater just because he's using this addon (besides it is possible to completely disable the feature which is discussed in this thread).
I think i found the talk i mentioned above but i didn't verify:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnmoI2dRwX4
And i highly doubt that this is possible here due to the already restricted API. Someone claimed previously there are "autoblock addons" and things like that, yet i expect to see some evidence before jumping on that train...InvitationNotFound wrote: »InvitationNotFound wrote: »InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
I made a new thread (I haven't personally created any regarding this addon previously, though I've posted in several) because nothing is being done about it - and I will keep creating new ones and keep posting until this has thousands of pages unless I'm either banned from the forums or a change happens.
Also, most of the other threads complain about addon, while the problem lies in the API. Getting rid of the addon (which also has many other functions that don't ruin the game for others) solves nothing as long as these kinds of cheats are allowed by the API.InvitationNotFound wrote: »I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
And no, maybe they aren't considered "cheats" by ZOS's definition (hence this thread), but they sure are from my perspective (and from the perspective of majority of people I'd say).
triggered?InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
I don't think ZoS has time to properly review the add-on against their design intent for the animation/audio cue system. And they aren't going to review it in more detail for just PC users when consoles don't have any add-ons.
It's not that they consider it fine or illegal, PvP is too small, too niche, and doesn't generate enough revenue to justify allocating a few employees to dive in there and start ripping out wires.
exactly this addon was already mentioned in several threads. they did review the api because of this addon. they made changes because of this addon. i highly doubt they didn't notice that functionality.InvitationNotFound wrote: »The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Be more specific when you state certain aspects of the game - that is very vague.
Additionally who would ever give out this information which clearly gives a massive benefit to using it?. Imagine i bought the game, additionally subscribe and out time/effort into making an addon that does interact to give benefits such as auto cleanse? - There is no incentive for me to give out this information and/or inform ZoS because imagine i would pay all this and then do work that ZoS 'should' be doing?
If you think this your delusional and i mean this to be informative and not personally attacking anyone.
you can download the lua code that comes with the game. you have an API list. furthermore, you have a zos statement on how the api works and what has implemented. take a look at it. it all contradicts with the statement of the one who wrote about such addons. if you (respectively the one who wrote it) make such claims, you (respectively he) should provide evidence. so whoever makes such claims should provide the evidence. and i'm not saying it is technically not possible, but it certainly isn't without a third party application or some sort of bug / vulnerability in their lua handling.InvitationNotFound wrote: »well, i will copy one of my recent posts here (for whatever reason the OP had to create another thread instead of using a thread about the same topic where he has been previously active) as there seems to be some misconceptions here.
don't get me wrong, this shouldn't be a post about how i love or hate this addon, in the end everyone has his own opinion here.
COPY STARTSMIAT add on was used privately by an inner circle for a long time before it was released for the general public. They only released the add on after an even more powerful one was used in its place. There are all sorts of other add ons that help people cheat. There is:
- auto block
- auto heal
- super speed
- macro slice
- auto detect
- Etc
regardless of what is in the TOS, these add ons break the spirit of fairness and are cheating in my opinion.
any other theories on why pvp populations have dropped so dramatically????
The API does not allow an addon directly to move, block or interact with certain aspects of the game directly. If you claim such things please provide evidence. And if you refer to third party applications (binaries and not addons) this has nothing to do with the addon API in itself.
Without evidence this simply looks like some uneducated claims which are in 99.9% of all cases wrong. You might simply not have understood how things work.Zbigb4life wrote: »There's no grey area as in 'smart people can do what ZOS prevented them to do to gain advantage'.
Definitely. You are using the tools ZOS provides. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not ZOS should provide those specific tools is a reasonable question, but it's ultimately irrelevant unless they remove them. We all play the game that we have, not the perfect game that exists only in our imaginations. If you want to win, use the tools or you put yourself at disadvantage to those who do.
I don't agree with this idea. It's wrong to use this add on and simply because it exists shouldn't force other players to use it as well. ZOS should ban everyone that uses this add on.
let's look at the following section in the terms of service:ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Excerpt from the Add-On terms:ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME;
So let's look at the addon again:
It modifies / enhances the game. It is what ZOS wants by providing the API. There aren't any comments about what an addon is allowed to do. The addon was capable of doing way more than that so they took a look at it. They have reviewed it. Then they came up with an API change. That's all they did. So you might have guessed it by now, everything indicates that ZOS is now fine with how the addon works, otherwise they would have implemented further restrictions when they initially reviewed it.
So let's take a look at the whole situation again:
The addon is legit. There is no indication it is abusing bugs or is doing anything ZOS isn't fine with. Calling other players cheaters because they are using this addon is wrong as the definition of cheater doesn't fit. Wanting people to be banned for using it is the same as if you would want people being banned for animation canceling. It's stupid.
COPY ENDS
I've posted this because some player consider this as cheating. It isn't by definition. deal with it. of course you might not like it or whatever.
So because someone officially says something is ok, it by your logic isn't inherintly wrong. So, by this logic, stoning people to death in countries where it is legal, makes it ok. It IS legal afterall.
Gotcha. I understand you people now.
Wrong, it is not what i said. I simply said it is not cheating. and it isn't.
However, your opinion is your opinion and i never said it is about other's opinion. you may feel about whatever you want.
I just compared to another issue and how it got handled and consider multiple such threads meaningless as they won't change anything.
Some people in those countries wouldnt consider it murder though, because it is legal. So even if this is tolerated by ZoS, it is still cheating. Regardless of what you say, or what your twisted sense of logic and right and wrong says.
well, i could say the same about you regarding the right and wrong. I mean you simply claim it is cheating because you don't like it. Fact is that ZOS is fine with it. It is working as intended. Everyone is free to use such addons or use that API. If such features are influencing any play style it is by design. if it is by design it isn't cheating.
you simply go about your feelings because it might affect your play style. that's why you call it cheating, not because there's any sense behind it. and don't get me wrong at this point. i don't say you can't be pissed about it or you must like it or whatever (personally i don't care much if they change the api or not). that is completely up to you. but technically seen, it is not cheating. go tell someone who animation cancels the crap out of the game and tell him he's a cheater. it is exactly the same, it's just stupid. (and theoretically ac is worse as it is an accepted bug, whereas this has been a design choice)
"By design", is that how all the bugs & exploits also wind up in the game?
Fact is that people make mistakes and not everything is by design.
Leaving these API functions available to the public is a mistake, there's no question about that.
Nope. Of course flaws / vulnerabilities by design exist. But most of the exploits you've seen are simple coding bugs. of course there are design flaws which are leading to cheating. e.g. the server doesn't properly verify client input, that's why CE was working (and still is). So no, not everything is by design. another example: the developer forgot to implement that a certain skill won't be affected by the alliance war debuff. that has nothing to do with the design, it is simply a coding bug.
You might scroll through my posts and search my quotes about the terms of service. The API is part of the game you've bought. It is there to modify and enhance the UI. That is by design. That is the reason they allow Addons and why they are exposing their (at least some parts of it) API. It is part of the game, whether you like it or not. Their own UI simply builds up on that API, but by no means it is the holy grail. that's why they allow modifications.
An example about an enhancement would be the "port to friend's house" addon, which i have created a while ago. I'm using an API call which isn't used anywhere else in the game. It allows you to port to every house of another player (as long as you have the permissions). According to the logic in this thread, it isn't in the base UI and therefore it must be some sort of hack or cheating. Well, it isn't. Yet, some people didn't enjoy it and wanted it to be removed^^ There were short discussions about the API and what the developers exposed as well. Funny to read btw... at least I had some fun
(here some links, just in case you want some good laughs:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/4328522/#Comment_4328522
Unfortunately I can't find the other links right now >_<)
Long story short: The API is part of the game. If it counters certain aspects of skills or play styles, it is part of the game. Just because it isn't in the base UI doesn't mean it is wrong in any way (otherwise you would have to completely remove all addons as they might display things that aren't part of the base UI).
But of course people make mistakes. True. ZOS makes a lot of mistakes. All the time. That's why the game is in such a miserable state.
Yet, i compare this issue with AC. It has been accepted. You can like it or not, it is what it is. Of course you might argue here as there won't be an official statement, but that's what their behavior indicates. They reviewed the addon as it got quite a lot of hate (and there were things in it that likely weren't okay ) and they have adjusted the API. If it is still a bug then they would have missed it twice and would have ignored all threads since then. I doubt that.
Anyway, that actually isn't my point here. I'm just a bit pissed about butt hurt snowflakes who call other people cheaters while there isn't evidence it is a bug. actually the facts indicate it isn't. anyway, you might not like it and complain (yet, i consider one thread to be enough), fine for me. It is like complaining about AC or proc sets or any other "OP" skill. Yet, i doubt anything will change, but to be honest, i don't care if they change the API.
Furthermore, I don't think the hate the author gets is justified. Not at all. He did nothing wrong. Even if it would be a bug (and some people would jump on the cheat train), there's nothing wrong with it. Be happy that the addon was made public and people got aware of it. Wouldn't it be worse if such an addon would only be available to a certain circle of players?
And by the way, i think he handles all of this quite well. besides, if you ignore the feature discussed here, the addon is quite good (besides the 3D compass, which sucks big time. I can only recommend yet another compass here - Sorry Dorrino, i couldn't resist^^). We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR0 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭Always amazes me that people defend cheating and blind themselves saying it is “not cheating”
Actually the issue here is that people are ignoring facts. That's why they call other players cheater in this case. People in this thread are only arguing with their butt hurt feelings. I mean it is fine if you don't like the API or that feature. I'm not saying it is great, you have to use it or it increases the game play or whatever. You likely won't find such a statement from me (and you won't really find any statement where i defend cheating, the opposite is the case) and i personally don't care if they change the API. But it simply isn't cheating.
Let's look at the definition on wikipedia:Cheating in video games involves a video game player using non-standard methods to create an advantage or disadvantage beyond normal gameplay, in order to make the game easier or harder. Cheats may be activated from within the game itself (a cheat code implemented by the original game developers), or created by third-party software (a game trainer) or hardware (a cheat cartridge). They can also be realized by exploiting software bugs; this may or may not be considered cheating based on whether the bug is considered common knowledge. Software bugs are very often considered software features and as long as they are common knowledge, it is questionable whether it is cheating.
Okay, so let's take a look the statements. Is it a non-standard method to create an advantage? No.
Addons are part of the terms and condition.
They are part of the game. So creating / using addons is standard in this game. This is normal.ZeniMax may, in its discretion, make available to You one or more application programming interfaces and associated documentation (each an "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content (excluding Game Mods), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for a Game. The API and Add-ons are Software for purposes of these Terms of Service and are subject to these Terms of Service and the Supplemental Terms applicable to the API and the Add-Ons. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, if the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on directly conflict with specific terms and conditions in these Terms of Service or any other Supplemental Terms, the Supplemental Terms for an API or Add-on will control, but solely for purpose of the specific API and Add-on and not for any other purpose.
Software bugs:
Yes, it might be a bug, but everything indicates it isn't. The addon has been reviewed by ZOS. If it is a bug it very well might fit the "has been accepted" scenario (unfortunately in that case).
It is your right to not like it, even to complain. But according to the facts and definitions we have, it is very unlikely cheating (it only might be in case it is a bug and hasn't been accepted). So naming someone a cheater because you simply don't like this addon (respectively the API) is simply wrong.We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@InvitationNotFound Wants to provide sources on definitions, comes up with wikipedia... LOL.
The only fact being ignored here is the fact that the addon lets you detect attacks being charged in stealth or behind you, which is not possible in the base game. There is no cue, mechanic or any other source of information in the game that tells you this is happening. Aside from that, it is also a fact that the addon goes against all logic and common sense. A 'stealthed' attack from invisibility, by its very definition, should remain stealthed, until it revealed itself (arrow/spell is fired) or is revealed by something (i.e. stealth detect pot, mages light, etc.). Denying this is arguing against facts.
Since ZOS is allowing it, we technically cannot call it a cheat though. Mind you, I never did. Doesn't change the fact that it lets you do things that aren't able to be done in the game, without this addon.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aside from that, it is also a fact that the addon goes against all logic and common sense. A 'stealthed' attack from invisibility, by its very definition, should remain stealthed, until it revealed itself (arrow/spell is fired) or is revealed by something (i.e. stealth detect pot, mages light, etc.). Denying this is arguing against facts.
Logic would indicate that any action a player takes should break stealth. So why are players allowed to cast buffs and charge a heavy attack while remaining in stealth? This is one of the main reasons stealth in this game is so absurd.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭@DDuke
Adding obvious bug fixes like Camo Hunter et al. to that list is a bit disingenuous. Or do you actually happen to think bug fixes are nerfs to stealth play?
If anything your list shows how completely ridiculous stealth was before some of these changes. And it still is. But, of course, cloak doesn't work 90% of the times and we just shouldn't use crutches.
Generally no, but selective bug fixing targeting stealth while doing nothing about the ridiculous amount of bugs plaguing cloak? Yeah.
If you still today have a problem with stealth gankers in this game, you might want to uninstall & go play something less challenging, like checkers.
Less challenging, that will be hard ... Maybe we should start to play demanding games again like starcraft or civilization/stellaris.
Tbh an addon telling u that there are enemies in sneak and incoming spells is a bad joke - like medium armor... I think cloak could maybe get a cost incease IF it would work reliabel and medium armor/DODGE ROLL finally got viable again.Aside from that, it is also a fact that the addon goes against all logic and common sense. A 'stealthed' attack from invisibility, by its very definition, should remain stealthed, until it revealed itself (arrow/spell is fired) or is revealed by something (i.e. stealth detect pot, mages light, etc.). Denying this is arguing against facts.
Logic would indicate that any action a player takes should break stealth. So why are players allowed to cast buffs and charge a heavy attack while remaining in stealth? This is one of the main reasons stealth in this game is so absurd.
I would find it quite more funney if we would get some dark templars - they stay invisible when they attack.
WHY does logic tell u that any action breaks stealth - if somebody is stretching his bow u wouldnt hear that in reality aswell.Edited by Murador178 on October 5, 2017 8:58AM2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Aside from that, it is also a fact that the addon goes against all logic and common sense. A 'stealthed' attack from invisibility, by its very definition, should remain stealthed, until it revealed itself (arrow/spell is fired) or is revealed by something (i.e. stealth detect pot, mages light, etc.). Denying this is arguing against facts.
Logic would indicate that any action a player takes should break stealth. So why are players allowed to cast buffs and charge a heavy attack while remaining in stealth? This is one of the main reasons stealth in this game is so absurd.
Shielstacking is bs. That doesnt mean shieldbreaker is good. Fixing one stupid mechanic with another stupid mechanic doesnt mean that you fixed ur problem. You now have 2 stupid mechanics.
And that addon doesnt work only against stealth. It quite simply removes skill from the game. Thats a fact, you cant argue that.
1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aside from that, it is also a fact that the addon goes against all logic and common sense. A 'stealthed' attack from invisibility, by its very definition, should remain stealthed, until it revealed itself (arrow/spell is fired) or is revealed by something (i.e. stealth detect pot, mages light, etc.). Denying this is arguing against facts.
Logic would indicate that any action a player takes should break stealth. So why are players allowed to cast buffs and charge a heavy attack while remaining in stealth? This is one of the main reasons stealth in this game is so absurd.
Shielstacking is bs. That doesnt mean shieldbreaker is good. Fixing one stupid mechanic with another stupid mechanic doesnt mean that you fixed ur problem. You now have 2 stupid mechanics.
And that addon doesnt work only against stealth. It quite simply removes skill from the game. Thats a fact, you cant argue that.
It just adds to metaplay where you circumvent the addon by baiting dodge/block with faked hardcasts or heavyattacks - atleast in the fights where something like "skill" matter at all.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭That is actually pretty good i wish we had that on console. Lethal arrow spammers are the lowest tier player there is next to block builds.Edited by Kalante on October 5, 2017 10:19AM1 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭@InvitationNotFound Wants to provide sources on definitions, comes up with wikipedia... LOL.
The only fact being ignored here is the fact that the addon lets you detect attacks being charged in stealth or behind you, which is not possible in the base game. There is no cue, mechanic or any other source of information in the game that tells you this is happening. Aside from that, it is also a fact that the addon goes against all logic and common sense. A 'stealthed' attack from invisibility, by its very definition, should remain stealthed, until it revealed itself (arrow/spell is fired) or is revealed by something (i.e. stealth detect pot, mages light, etc.). Denying this is arguing against facts.
Since ZOS is allowing it, we technically cannot call it a cheat though. Mind you, I never did. Doesn't change the fact that it lets you do things that aren't able to be done in the game, without this addon.
At least you tried. Coming up with another definition (not one that is entirely made up by you) would be an argument or could be considered as fact, if it is valid in any way. You will hardly find a definition that will push these features in the category of a cheat.
As i mentioned earlier, the game is more then the base UI. It isn't restricted to the base UI. ZOS provides the interface to accomplish that. They have a paragraph about it in their terms and conditions. Addons are a part of the game and they are there to modify and enhance the UI. It doesn't matter at all what the base UI provides. And obviously the game is providing those hints. The information is sent by the server and the client has access (through the API) to that data. Simply because the base UI doesn't display this information doesn't mean it is the only way it should be. As mentioned above and in earlier threads (you probably should read them if you want to argue, as you've completely missed that point in your argument. well, i guess reading and understanding are different things...) this information is part of the game. Period. It doesn't matter if your feelings are being hurt by that fact or not.
Furthermore, don't talk about common sense when it is about a stealth enemy as it is a fictional construct and far away from reality. The whole implementation doesn't make much sense in the way it currently is. But i guess to figure that out some common sense would be needed. *sighs* Talking about facts here is simply stupid as it is simply your opinion and not a fact.
And again, as you might have read but not understood: I don't say this API is great, it has to be like that. I don't care. I was talking about the technical aspects and that it has nothing to do with cheating (because some idiots claim this because of "facts"), which it doesn't. I don't care about your feelings and if you cry yourself to sleep because of it. Obviously you don't want to call it cheating, but then again, i do not see the reason you have the urge to come up with your response claiming your opinion are now facts.We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How does charging your bow in any shape or form break stealth? Please... this is becoming ridiculous.Aside from that, it is also a fact that the addon goes against all logic and common sense. A 'stealthed' attack from invisibility, by its very definition, should remain stealthed, until it revealed itself (arrow/spell is fired) or is revealed by something (i.e. stealth detect pot, mages light, etc.). Denying this is arguing against facts.
Logic would indicate that any action a player takes should break stealth. So why are players allowed to cast buffs and charge a heavy attack while remaining in stealth? This is one of the main reasons stealth in this game is so absurd.
Edited by Koensol on October 5, 2017 10:42AM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Aside from that, it is also a fact that the addon goes against all logic and common sense. A 'stealthed' attack from invisibility, by its very definition, should remain stealthed, until it revealed itself (arrow/spell is fired) or is revealed by something (i.e. stealth detect pot, mages light, etc.). Denying this is arguing against facts.
Logic would indicate that any action a player takes should break stealth. So why are players allowed to cast buffs and charge a heavy attack while remaining in stealth? This is one of the main reasons stealth in this game is so absurd.
Shielstacking is bs. That doesnt mean shieldbreaker is good. Fixing one stupid mechanic with another stupid mechanic doesnt mean that you fixed ur problem. You now have 2 stupid mechanics.
And that addon doesnt work only against stealth. It quite simply removes skill from the game. Thats a fact, you cant argue that.
It just adds to metaplay where you circumvent the addon by baiting dodge/block with faked hardcasts or heavyattacks - atleast in the fights where something like "skill" matter at all.
There is a reason those fights are rare these days. Its because of every stupid sh*t like that addon. Every now and then you bait shieldbreakers and kill them. That doesnt mean shieldbreaker promotes skilled gameplay.
Just because the addon counters a stupid playstyle or in some cases you can outplay braindead people that spam roll dodge whenever they see a frag icon on their screen it doesnt mean its good. The addon helps you do things that you wouldnt normally be able to do, reduces ur chances of doing mistakes and increase ur success rate. Thats not skill, its the exact opposite.2
This discussion has been closed.