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Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!
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Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭And I don't want to talk too much about next patch, but let's just say the best "gank builds" probably won't be trying to snipe you from 40m+ but rather around 20m.
They won't. 'Snipers' are mostly new players that choose the most effective option while maintaining safety. They won't risk the distance for a much more complicated combo with the new weapons.I'd love for Snipe to be viable in duels. It won't - not with the API as it is & the current mechanics (dodge roll during travel time or cast time=skill dodged, rather than dodge roll during travel time only).
For that they would need to drastically reduce its damage. It's either reliability or high damage.
You somehow want both.Actually, if you're outnumbered 5v1 it's likely you're already utilizing dodge roll/block to prevent those snipes from hurting you so no, it's not much higher. One might land when someone CCs you but that's about it.
if you're trying to run away - yes:)
I'm talking about you fighting 5 people to kill.
Then this HIDDEN (tm) sniper might make your opportunity to attack even smaller. Because unlike most other spammable things you can easily die if you let just one snipe hit. The keyword is spammable.I don't consider a skill that only has a chance to even land in a Xv1 scenario a good ability, let alone worth slotting.
I don't know anyone that would consider it so.
But that's exactly what snipes are for. This is the most widespread use of them. Along with chain-sniping 3 snipes from stealth, hoping to kill. And then complaining about God, weather and Miat:)I know for certain I'd much rather have one of those 5 sniping me than Incapping or Leaping my face.
Totally opposite for me. Both incap and leap and really fast and have quite long cooldown. You need to counter them once. Snipes, having the same or even higher damage need to be countered each sec.See, what I consider "skill" is always anticipating that unknown danger and preparing for it.
You cannot both anticipate and predict unknown danger, by the definition of 'unknown'.
If you're able to do either of that, the very fact that you're doing that makes it a 'known' danger.
That's why anticipating a dk to leap right this second (and blocking preemptively) - is skill. And anticipating a stealth gank in the middle of nowhere is luck.What I consider skill is having a good reaction time, having good game knowledge and knowing exactly what can kill you and what can't.
I.e. 'to prevent the danger that is known to you':)
If you got half a sec to react this danger is known to you for the whole half a sec. That's enough.
If you have zero sec to react - that's unknown danger and somehow avoiding it has nothing to do with any skill.but not hitting a button when you see that 1s cast bar appear for your opponent (random trivia: average human reaction speed is 0,2s).
But hitting a button when you hear snipe sound somehow is skill?:D
Castbar makes it easier which is invaluable in xv1 and xvx situations for the reasons above.It's not removing the entire "unknown danger" aspect from the game while simultaneously accepting every other cast ability as collateral damage.
Yet again, because reacting to a known danger is skill. Avoiding unknown danger is luck. I prefer skilled combat out of these options.Edited by Dorrino on October 3, 2017 10:32PM3 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »That is actually the whole point of stealth. The risk was built into the game. ZOS put that element into their game.
It's irrelevant what ZOS put in the game as an option. Using this option is up to morals of each particular person. As well as insisting on using it.
1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »That is actually the whole point of stealth. The risk was built into the game. ZOS put that element into their game.
It's irrelevant what ZOS put in the game as an option. Using this option is up to morals of each particular person. As well as insisting on using it.
Either you’re acting or if you mean what you just posted then I no longer take you seriously.
It’s irrelvant what ZOS put into their game? Morals? So instead of not playing eso you decided to change some elements around to suit your needs?
Stay AD, never come to DC.5 -
Jake1576✭✭✭✭✭I hoped I'd never have to make this thread, but patch after patch these API functions still exist.
This is what addons can do currently (comparison between no addon & addon):
https://youtu.be/zaB-sXFKHdE
An addon should not be able to show opponent's cast timer to you - that makes it impossible to land any cast time ability on target using these kinds of addons and it provides a clear advantage to the player using the addon.
It's not just Snipe (as shown in the video) that suffers from addons like these, but also all other cast/channeled abilities (including heavy attacks).
Enough is enough - remove these API functions ZOS.
this is why i'm glad I play on console sometimes we have bad lag and load screens but addons like your talking about would just kill the game for me I wished we had certain addons that pc gets like the find skyshards addons and stuff like that but not an addon that does this they shouldn't allow stuff like this in the game if its letting another player get the upper hand on someone3 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Either you’re acting or if you mean what you just posted then I no longer take you seriously.
You're given a rare opportunity to talk seriously with me and you're wasting it.Publius_Scipio wrote: »It’s irrelvant what ZOS put into their game? Morals? So instead of not playing eso you decided to change some elements around to suit your needs?
It is fully irrelevant that the world has sexual assault, murder and torture 'put into it'. It's up to the morals of each person to participate in them or not. Is this example clear enough for you?:)Publius_Scipio wrote: »Stay AD, never come to DC.
I'm putting a lot of efforts to refuse quite urgent offers to come dc side already:)
Edited by Dorrino on October 3, 2017 10:41PM1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Either you’re acting or if you mean what you just posted then I no longer take you seriously.
You're given a rare opportunity to take seriously with me and you're wasting it.Publius_Scipio wrote: »It’s irrelvant what ZOS put into their game? Morals? So instead of not playing eso you decided to change some elements around to suit your needs?
It is fully irrelevant that the world has sexual assault, murder and torture 'put into it'. It's up to morals of each person to participate in them or not. Is this example clear enough for you?:)Publius_Scipio wrote: »Stay AD, never come to DC.
I'm putting a lot of efforts to refuse quite urgent offers to come dc side already:)
You’re ability to reason is way off in comparison to most others here on these forums.4 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »You’re ability to reason is way off in comparison to most others here on these forums.
Well it's severely underused when replying to your posts. Which is quite unfortunate.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You can't see the start of a Leap from stealth/out of your FoV
And that's a problem, given the effectiveness a leap can have.
I'd added it to notifications if it was possible.
But otherwise you can see the start of the leap and react (or try to react) accordingly., nor can you see the start of a Soul Assault - it just happens.
That's exactly where the start is:) And that's why there's no need to have a separate notification for it. It's clear enough as it is.Same with almost any skill cast from stealth (or out of your FoV): Frags, Dark Flare, Incap, Assassin's Will/Scourge, Surprise Attack etc etc
And that's why all of them have the notifications:)Point is I'd like to see atleast the harder to avoid short range snipes viable, since they might be relevant next patch in a certain build.
Hell, I'd love to see longer range snipes viable against decent players, but that'd take some changes from ZOS (e.g. faster travel speed for the projectile).
But why would you want to improve a spammable that crits up to 40% max hp on med armor and stuns to be even more effective?
We can double the damage of SA and see how it feels:) It's dodgeable as well, but at least it's a melee skill.Your addon makes zero difference (at the moment) in duels though, because no one is crazy enough to use Snipe there.
Because the addon is disabled. And because snipe never was a dueling skill. Snipe always was a zerg/xv1/ganker skill. Its awkwardness is offset by its benefits.Look, we can have differing opinions on whether showing a visual cue for incoming projectiles via addon is fine or not, but at the very least you could accept that showing the cast timer (especially for untargeted/stealthed opponents) goes too far.
In my mind it doesn't. At all.
What goes too far is that starting channeling skills doesn't take the caster out of stealth. And lack of at least audio cues for the channels themselves.
While we don't have that my addon will cover for those design shortcomings:)
Its clear this guy is a fan of melee and doesnt care about ranged classes, and his mentality is clear as day, he thinks cheating is ok.5 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »I hoped I'd never have to make this thread, but patch after patch these API functions still exist.
This is what addons can do currently (comparison between no addon & addon):https://youtu.be/zaB-sXFKHdE
An addon should not be able to show opponent's cast timer to you - that makes it impossible to land any cast time ability on target using these kinds of addons and it provides a clear advantage to the player using the addon.
It's not just Snipe (as shown in the video) that suffers from addons like these, but also all other cast/channeled abilities (including heavy attacks).
Enough is enough - remove these API functions ZOS.
That video just infuriated me.....
The majority of people clearly hate this add on, and all add ons resembeling it, why ZoS literally is sitting on their hands right now with this is beyond confusing. If they cracked down on this it would send a clear signal that this stuff, as was stated when the game first came out, would not, and should not be tolerated. Now that we are here though, they backtracked and dont do anything? Honestly if I had enough money, I would try to officially do something about it.
The only people that hate it are those that love "surprise! you're nearly dead!" ambushes.
I'm sorry, but I prefer a fair fight so I don't really care if somebody uses this addon.
Also, the functions of this addon are in the default UI as a function of "active combat tips" setting. The default UI will tell you when you should block or interrupt or break free based on enemy skill use, in pve and pvp.Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »I hoped I'd never have to make this thread, but patch after patch these API functions still exist.
This is what addons can do currently (comparison between no addon & addon):https://youtu.be/zaB-sXFKHdE
An addon should not be able to show opponent's cast timer to you - that makes it impossible to land any cast time ability on target using these kinds of addons and it provides a clear advantage to the player using the addon.
It's not just Snipe (as shown in the video) that suffers from addons like these, but also all other cast/channeled abilities (including heavy attacks).
Enough is enough - remove these API functions ZOS.
That video just infuriated me.....
The majority of people clearly hate this add on, and all add ons resembeling it, why ZoS literally is sitting on their hands right now with this is beyond confusing. If they cracked down on this it would send a clear signal that this stuff, as was stated when the game first came out, would not, and should not be tolerated. Now that we are here though, they backtracked and dont do anything? Honestly if I had enough money, I would try to officially do something about it.
The only people that hate it are those that love "surprise! you're nearly dead!" ambushes.
I'm sorry, but I prefer a fair fight so I don't really care if somebody uses this addon.
Also, the functions of this addon are in the default UI as a function of "active combat tips" setting. The default UI will tell you when you should block or interrupt or break free based on enemy skill use, in pve and pvp.
Oh no! We wouldnt want rogue characters in a fantasy video game! Horrors. And you saying you prefer a fair fight is laughable, because you are bypassing in game mechanics with an uncounterable add on. You can use detect pots, mage light, flare, etc to find stealth people, there are counters, there is no counter to miats.5 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I agreePublius_Scipio wrote: »You’re ability to reason is way off in comparison to most others here on these forums.
Well it's severely underused when replying to your posts. Which is quite unfortunate.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You are certainly entitled to your views, however wrong they might be.
It's sad you decided to get rid of any rationality in your posts here.
Blaming the guy with different views that he's biased and wrong always was the most accessible cope out when you can't have an upper hand otherwise.
Let me be the stupid biased guy here then:)
Snipe never was easy to land on a decent player - your addon only made it impossible rather than "difficult".
It always was really easy to land a snipe on anybody because it's a spammable from Africa. If the first 4 snipes miss you'll just keep sniping. Given the damage the point never was to land a particular snipe. You just keep spamming.
Actually you are biased and wrong. Because your addon and opinion disregards a large portion of the player bases opinion. We are advocating for the respect of all playstyles, you are not.8 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You are certainly entitled to your views, however wrong they might be.
It's sad you decided to get rid of any rationality in your posts here.
Blaming the guy with different views that he's biased and wrong always was the most accessible cope out when you can't have an upper hand otherwise.
Let me be the stupid biased guy here then:)
Snipe never was easy to land on a decent player - your addon only made it impossible rather than "difficult".
It always was really easy to land a snipe on anybody because it's a spammable from Africa. If the first 4 snipes miss you'll just keep sniping. Given the damage the point never was to land a particular snipe. You just keep spamming.
Actually you are biased and wrong. Because your addon and opinion disregards a large portion of the player bases opinion. We are advocating for the respect of all playstyles, you are not.
I agree3 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Actually you are biased and wrong. Because your addon and opinion disregards a large portion of the player bases opinion. We are advocating for the respect of all playstyles, you are not.
Would you propose me to share your opinion here and disregard another one that is 'shared by a large portion of playerbase'?:)
What exactly makes your opinion more preferable, besides that it's yours?
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AverageJo3Gam3r✭✭✭✭✭Wow, glad I play on console without all these crutches. And before anyone says it, I main a mDK--I don't even have a stamblade. Never had an issue with hits from stealth or snipe. Not sure why PC players think it's necessary to have these add ons that completely destroy certain skills or entire playstyles (looking at you brave bow/bow users). Is reaction time with a keyboard that much slower than a controller that you can't block/dodge/shield a snipe?5 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And I don't want to talk too much about next patch, but let's just say the best "gank builds" probably won't be trying to snipe you from 40m+ but rather around 20m.
They won't. 'Snipers' are mostly new players that choose the most effective option while maintaining safety. They won't risk the distance for a much more complicated combo with the new weapons.
New players don't choose what is "most effective option while maintaining safety" - they have no idea what that is, they are new to the game. New players choose what looks/sounds cool & fun. Usually this is an archer/rogue in MMORPGs.
"Most effective option while maintaining safety" most certainly isn't bow and never has been - you have a wide variety of permablock/big dmg shield builds for that. Some of them might even be what can be considered effective.I'd love for Snipe to be viable in duels. It won't - not with the API as it is & the current mechanics (dodge roll during travel time or cast time=skill dodged, rather than dodge roll during travel time only).
For that they would need to drastically reduce its damage. It's either reliability or high damage.
You somehow want both.
Except it never has been reliable. High damage? Yes, especially back in the days.
But these days not more so than say Crystal Frags (instant cast).
Most effective "gank builds" these days are magplar Dark Flare->Javelin ones btw, and those aren't just sitting ducks unable to do anything if Flare misses and an opponent gets close.Actually, if you're outnumbered 5v1 it's likely you're already utilizing dodge roll/block to prevent those snipes from hurting you so no, it's not much higher. One might land when someone CCs you but that's about it.
if you're trying to run away - yes:)
I'm talking about you fighting 5 people to kill.
Then this HIDDEN (tm) sniper might make your opportunity to attack even smaller. Because unlike most other spammable things you can easily die if you let just one snipe hit. The keyword is spammable.
Just as a spammable Wrecking Blow can kill you (more dmg), or spammable Jabs or Surprise Attack, perhaps a spammable jesus beam in a 5v1 scenario or god forbid just one non-spammable Soul Assault from anyone if you happen to be in medium armor.
Skills can kill if they land, is that your point?I don't consider a skill that only has a chance to even land in a Xv1 scenario a good ability, let alone worth slotting.
I don't know anyone that would consider it so.
But that's exactly what snipes are for. This is the most widespread use of them. Along with chain-sniping 3 snipes from stealth, hoping to kill. And then complaining about God, weather and Miat:)
Elaborate on "widespread", I rarely meet snipers at all in PvP these days.I know for certain I'd much rather have one of those 5 sniping me than Incapping or Leaping my face.
Totally opposite for me. Both incap and leap and really fast and have quite long cooldown. You need to counter them once. Snipes, having the same or even higher damage need to be countered each sec.
Didn't you just say earlier that it's easy to die from just one snipe landing on you? Well, Incap & Leap both deal more damage than Snipe, are significantly harder to avoid and CC you (not just from stealth).
Also, you actually counter two snipes (if that archer is spamming them) with one dodge roll.
Let me ask you a question: if snipe is so strong/annoying in 1vX, why aren't the console people (who don't have access to your addon) complaining about it? I haven't seen a thread complaining about Snipe since 2015.
Some food for thought.
Duh, I was just using your words
By that definition every danger is known, except ones that you didn't have knowledge about (i.e. some skill combination you hadn't thought of).That's why anticipating a dk to leap right this second (and blocking preemptively) - is skill. And anticipating a stealth gank in the middle of nowhere is luck.
Not really. Anticipating a stealth gank means always keeping your fingers on RMB+LMB for quick CC break & on whatever your dodge roll key is (mine is on the gaming mouse) to avoid any follow-up dmg when traveling in middle of nowhere.
The "prepare" part is making sure you have enough impen/health to survive the gank attempt.
So it's a combination of reaction speed & having good game knowledge, building your character to survive.What I consider skill is having a good reaction time, having good game knowledge and knowing exactly what can kill you and what can't.
I.e. 'to prevent the danger that is known to you':)
If you got half a sec to react this danger is known to you for the whole half a sec. That's enough.
If you have zero sec to react - that's unknown danger and somehow avoiding it has nothing to do with any skill.
Good thing that there aren't any ranged attacks with zero seconds to react to them (even without your addon), isn't it?
Sounds to me like you should me more worried about getting DW Heavy Attack+Incap ganked from stealth.but not hitting a button when you see that 1s cast bar appear for your opponent (random trivia: average human reaction speed is 0,2s).
But hitting a button when you hear snipe sound somehow is skill?:D
Castbar makes it easier which is invaluable in xv1 and xvx situations for the reasons above.
Sure it is, as it requires more reaction speed than when you can simply see your opponent's cast bar 1s+ prior to even hearing that sound/seeing the incoming arrow/frag/flare/heavy attack/whatever.
No, quite frankly what you prefer is cheating.Edited by DDuke on October 3, 2017 11:12PM5 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »I hoped I'd never have to make this thread, but patch after patch these API functions still exist.
This is what addons can do currently (comparison between no addon & addon):https://youtu.be/zaB-sXFKHdE
An addon should not be able to show opponent's cast timer to you - that makes it impossible to land any cast time ability on target using these kinds of addons and it provides a clear advantage to the player using the addon.
It's not just Snipe (as shown in the video) that suffers from addons like these, but also all other cast/channeled abilities (including heavy attacks).
Enough is enough - remove these API functions ZOS.
That video just infuriated me.....
The majority of people clearly hate this add on, and all add ons resembeling it, why ZoS literally is sitting on their hands right now with this is beyond confusing. If they cracked down on this it would send a clear signal that this stuff, as was stated when the game first came out, would not, and should not be tolerated. Now that we are here though, they backtracked and dont do anything? Honestly if I had enough money, I would try to officially do something about it.
The only people that hate it are those that love "surprise! you're nearly dead!" ambushes.
I'm sorry, but I prefer a fair fight so I don't really care if somebody uses this addon.
Also, the functions of this addon are in the default UI as a function of "active combat tips" setting. The default UI will tell you when you should block or interrupt or break free based on enemy skill use, in pve and pvp.Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »I hoped I'd never have to make this thread, but patch after patch these API functions still exist.
This is what addons can do currently (comparison between no addon & addon):https://youtu.be/zaB-sXFKHdE
An addon should not be able to show opponent's cast timer to you - that makes it impossible to land any cast time ability on target using these kinds of addons and it provides a clear advantage to the player using the addon.
It's not just Snipe (as shown in the video) that suffers from addons like these, but also all other cast/channeled abilities (including heavy attacks).
Enough is enough - remove these API functions ZOS.
That video just infuriated me.....
The majority of people clearly hate this add on, and all add ons resembeling it, why ZoS literally is sitting on their hands right now with this is beyond confusing. If they cracked down on this it would send a clear signal that this stuff, as was stated when the game first came out, would not, and should not be tolerated. Now that we are here though, they backtracked and dont do anything? Honestly if I had enough money, I would try to officially do something about it.
The only people that hate it are those that love "surprise! you're nearly dead!" ambushes.
I'm sorry, but I prefer a fair fight so I don't really care if somebody uses this addon.
Also, the functions of this addon are in the default UI as a function of "active combat tips" setting. The default UI will tell you when you should block or interrupt or break free based on enemy skill use, in pve and pvp.
Oh no! We wouldnt want rogue characters in a fantasy video game! Horrors. And you saying you prefer a fair fight is laughable, because you are bypassing in game mechanics with an uncounterable add on. You can use detect pots, mage light, flare, etc to find stealth people, there are counters, there is no counter to miats.
Well sadly, there have to be some sacrifices for pvp to exist in this game.
FYI, I played City of Heroes where enough people enjoyed pvp and even I pvped. And guess what? It had perma-stealth that was completely overpowered compared to the paltry imitation stealth you get in this game. In fact, every character could get such stealth because it was given by multiple abilities as a magnitude on each that could stack and none was class limited.
City of Heroes was a perfect example of "when everyone is super, no one will be" because everyone had access to everything and it was fun even at that.
They've "chosen the path of blood"(Code Geass) and pain with their design of the game and pvp where certain classes are too unique for arbitrary reasons. Stealth will inevitably likely have to die for balance in the system they have chosen, sadly.
I like stealth too, but I know its time is limited.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lmao they still haven't changed this?
How is an addon like this even considered fair for an MMO of the year, come on zos lol#MOREORBS11 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭New players don't choose what is "most effective option while maintaining safety" - they have no idea what that is, they are new to the game. New players choose what looks/sounds cool & fun. Usually this is an archer/rogue in MMORPGs.
Well, they do:) They quickly realize that then need to stay with zerg and spam ranged attacks. Snipe has the longest range and hit for quite a lot. It is not hard to learn it quite fast."Most effective option while maintaining safety" most certainly isn't bow and never has been - you have a wide variety of permablock/big dmg shield builds for that. Some of them might even be what can be considered effective.
For a new player? Permablock? New player is your snipe spammer with 40k hp:)Just as a spammable Wrecking Blow can kill you (more dmg),
Melee range, visible.or spammable Jabs or Surprise Attack,
Melee range, visible, no burst.perhaps a spammable jesus beam in a 5v1 scenario or god forbid just one non-spammable Soul Assault from anyone if you happen to be in medium armor.
All visible from start to finish. Thus avoidable.Skills can kill if they land, is that your point?
If i was stupid then yes.Elaborate on "widespread", I rarely meet snipers at all in PvP these days.
Fight pug groups of 5-10 people. They got those snipers around them.Incap & Leap both deal more damage than Snipe,
They don't.are significantly harder to avoid and CC you (not just from stealth).
Not much harder, but less often.Also, you actually counter two snipes (if that archer is spamming them) with one dodge roll.
1sec vs 1 sec with perfect alignment. I.e. highly unlikely.Let me ask you a question: if snipe is so strong/annoying in 1vX, why aren't the console people (who don't have access to your addon) complaining about it? I haven't seen a thread complaining about Snipe since 2015.
Because most people don't 1vx, and those that do don't complain.Some food for thought.
You keep implying i need to understand something that i don't already.
I advice you to put it plainly.By that definition every danger is known, except ones that you didn't have knowledge about (i.e. some skill combination you hadn't thought of).
Or the one that has no or vague indication.Not really. Anticipating a stealth gank means always keeping your fingers on RMB+LMB for quick CC break & on whatever your dodge roll key is (mine is on the gaming mouse) to avoid any follow-up dmg when traveling in middle of nowhere.
The "prepare" part is making sure you have enough impen/health to survive the gank attempt.
So it's a combination of reaction speed & having good game knowledge, building your character to survive.
Won't prevent the gank itself. Just helps recover from the initial damage if you survive.
In other words, irrelevant to the subject.Good thing that there aren't any ranged attacks with zero seconds to react to them (even without your addon), isn't it?
Snipe or other hard hitting ranged attacks with no indication or with sound lost in the cacophony of battle.Sounds to me like you should me more worried about getting DW Heavy Attack+Incap ganked from stealth.
I'm worried about anything that needs to be countered. I don't make preferences.Sure it is, as it requires more reaction speed than when you can simply see your opponent's cast bar 1s+ prior to even hearing that sound/seeing the incoming arrow/frag/flare/heavy attack/whatever.
And that is awesome.No, quite frankly what you prefer is cheating.
This is unfortunate that you consider cheating higher awareness and not stealth ganks. That's on you though.Edited by Dorrino on October 3, 2017 11:26PM1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I find it pretty funny how @Dorrino is literally pointing out that he doesn't like a certain type of gameplay which ZOS designed, and that's why he made the addon to eliminate that type of gameplay, and then ZOS is like "We're totally fine with that".
LaughableEdited by Dymence on October 3, 2017 11:38PM12 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is cheating though, you are abusing the API to avoid a gameplay mechanic (no one is saying its good) that the developers decided to put in the game. You even have a timer telling you when you need to dodge. With the current system how it is, that is not even considered fair lol, you have an advantage over someone when you shouldn't cause you are abusing the API.This is unfortunate that you consider cheating higher awareness and not stealth ganks. That's on you though.
Now before you decide to get all mad, I agree with you that stealth is absurdly stupid in the game, but as mentioned in the OP this affects all channeled abilities, you can use it in other ways that can provide unfair advantages which equals to cheating.
ZOS needs to change around the API and ZOS also needs to address crappy gameplay mechanics. It's kinda gone on for too long.
Hell, they actually banned something like being able to see someones DPS (GOD FORBID) but allow you to see to the second when someone is casting an ability.
And also what Dymence just said. Why is the API still the way it is and why is the gameplay still the way it is. Company needs to get it together already, this topic has been going on for ages with hundreds of threads. But hey, if they're totally fine with players that are going to abuse the API and cheat and allow it instead of changing their *** around, good for them.Edited by Nifty2g on October 3, 2017 11:40PM#MOREORBS9 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It is cheating though, you are abusing the API to avoid a gameplay mechanic (no one is saying its good) that the developers decided to put in the game. You even have a timer telling you when you need to dodge. With the current system how it is, that is not even considered fair lol, you have an advantage over someone when you shouldn't cause you are abusing the API.This is unfortunate that you consider cheating higher awareness and not stealth ganks. That's on you though.
Now before you decide to get all mad, I agree with you that stealth is absurdly stupid in the game, but as mentioned in the OP this affects all channeled abilities, you can use it in other ways that can provide unfair advantages which equals to cheating.
ZOS needs to change around the API and ZOS also needs to address crappy gameplay mechanics. It's kinda gone on for too long.
Hell, they actually banned something like being able to see someones DPS (GOD FORBID) but allow you to see to the second when someone is casting an ability.
Well, the reason for the hiding dps numbers is it also causes a lot more stress on the servers adding to lag, and it also is far too easily used to discriminate people who may be contributing in other ways, like the tank or healer or off-tank.0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »
It is cheating though, you are abusing the API to avoid a gameplay mechanic (no one is saying its good) that the developers decided to put in the game. You even have a timer telling you when you need to dodge. With the current system how it is, that is not even considered fair lol, you have an advantage over someone when you shouldn't cause you are abusing the API.This is unfortunate that you consider cheating higher awareness and not stealth ganks. That's on you though.
Now before you decide to get all mad, I agree with you that stealth is absurdly stupid in the game, but as mentioned in the OP this affects all channeled abilities, you can use it in other ways that can provide unfair advantages which equals to cheating.
ZOS needs to change around the API and ZOS also needs to address crappy gameplay mechanics. It's kinda gone on for too long.
Hell, they actually banned something like being able to see someones DPS (GOD FORBID) but allow you to see to the second when someone is casting an ability.
Well, the reason for the hiding dps numbers is it also causes a lot more stress on the servers adding to lag, and it also is far too easily used to discriminate people who may be contributing in other ways, like the tank or healer or off-tank.
Social issues vs. eliminating an entire part of gameplay0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't blame Miat at all. Whether you agree with the functionality his addon exposes or not, ZOS is 100% responsible. If his addon did not exist, another with the same functions would.
There is no great technical hurdle for ZOS to overcome. This wouldn't be a nightmare to fix as has been said. ZOS could solve this if it chose to.
IMO, Miat did everyone a favor by bringing these functions out of the shadows so they can be discussed.
1 -
Ace_SiN✭✭✭✭This functionality of the addon is simply unhealthy for the game. Newbs that are unaware of such an addon will have a harder time playing. For those of us that do know about it, it's simply not fun to be the attacker. Awareness is a skill.. This addon erases that and gives every player 100% awareness. It goes against the core design of the combat system. You can turn your back to an enemy and just let the addon tell you when to dodge. The excuse that this is to counter gankers is complete bs. If ZOS wants to counter gankers then they should have disabled stealth and only allowed NB cloak. Plenty of Hardcore PvP games don't offer true invis and gankers get by just fine by actually using the environment to hide. At most all they would need is the ability to force your nameplate/alliance tag to be set to hidden.
King of Beasts8 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Dorrino
I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.4 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »
It is cheating though, you are abusing the API to avoid a gameplay mechanic (no one is saying its good) that the developers decided to put in the game. You even have a timer telling you when you need to dodge. With the current system how it is, that is not even considered fair lol, you have an advantage over someone when you shouldn't cause you are abusing the API.This is unfortunate that you consider cheating higher awareness and not stealth ganks. That's on you though.
Now before you decide to get all mad, I agree with you that stealth is absurdly stupid in the game, but as mentioned in the OP this affects all channeled abilities, you can use it in other ways that can provide unfair advantages which equals to cheating.
ZOS needs to change around the API and ZOS also needs to address crappy gameplay mechanics. It's kinda gone on for too long.
Hell, they actually banned something like being able to see someones DPS (GOD FORBID) but allow you to see to the second when someone is casting an ability.
Well, the reason for the hiding dps numbers is it also causes a lot more stress on the servers adding to lag, and it also is far too easily used to discriminate people who may be contributing in other ways, like the tank or healer or off-tank.
Social issues vs. eliminating an entire part of gameplay
I'm just posting possible reasons. Somebody can probably dig up a post with the public reason they posted.
As far as the addon showing the cast bar or an audio indicator when they are casting, they can't remove that capability without killing the whole active combat system of dodge and block for pve and pvp. Dodge and block need to be triggered before a skill goes off and not everyone has a computer that can show every graphic on the enemy well enough to be seen and reacted to, which is why we have active combat tips as a UI option and this "problem" some of you are complaining about.
And besides the argument over design intent, I see it as either negligible impact with all the people avoiding cast time abilities already for pvp or a good thing to get rid of those cast time stealth gankers that nobody likes fighting against. The only supporters of that play style are ones who actually like it and are trying to hide the fact that it is imbalanced.
Guess what? I like to stealth gank if I can too, but I won't lie and say that "it's balanced and fair" when it is most definitely not in this type of pvp. The controls of this game do not support gameplay where stealth is an option.0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭It is cheating though, you are abusing the API to avoid a gameplay mechanic (no one is saying its good) that the developers decided to put in the game.
You can't 'abuse' API. It provides what it provides. It can and was shown that having a feature in API is identical with having it in the interface itself. That's why it even is in API, so default interface could use it.You even have a timer telling you when you need to dodge. With the current system how it is, that is not even considered fair lol, you have an advantage over someone when you shouldn't cause you are abusing the API.
See above and it seems people have peculiar usage of the word 'fair'. In my mind 'fair' is something that is available to everybody. Free of charge. At any time.
As opposed to 'unfair' or 'cheating' that is sometime that available to a limited group of people.
In your use-case literally any addon is not fair because it changes the way the person perceives the game. To the benefit of that person.
In my definition any addon is fair, because anybody can use it.And also what Dymence just said. Why is the API still the way it is and why is the gameplay still the way it is. Company needs to get it together already, this topic has been going on for ages with hundreds of threads. But hey, if they're totally fine with players that are going to abuse the API and cheat and allow it instead of changing their *** around, good for them.
Because they are not keeping up.
That's why they don't make statements regarding addons unless really pressed.2 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭@Dorrino
I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.
Thank you for clarification.
I have to add that people keep trying to explain to me this all the time:) I can even talk for them. It's always the same.
The thing is, yet again, i do understand this. Really understand. Like no confusion. No dark spots. Crystal clear.
And yet, i happen to disagree with that as a universal rule. Sorry about that.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Dorrino
I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.
Thank you for clarification.
I have to add that people keep trying to explain to me this all the time:) I can even talk for them. It's always the same.
The thing is, yet again, i do understand this. Really understand. Like no confusion. No dark spots. Crystal clear.
And yet, i happen to disagree with that as a universal rule. Sorry about that.
Someone doesnt pay attention to what is going on, makes a mistake, turns his back, doesnt position correctly or whatever and yet still reacts because of the addon. I mean feel free to disagree but you are wrong on this one. There is really nothing to disagree about that. Its that simple.4 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Someone doesnt pay attention to what is going on, makes a mistake, turns his back, doesnt position correctly or whatever and yet still reacts because of the addon. I mean feel free to disagree but you are wrong on this one. There is really nothing to disagree about that. Its that simple.
Wrong that i want them to be able to react like this? Wrong that i like when they react like this? Wrong that i enjoy giving chances to people to correct their mistakes?:)
Well, that's who i am. I prefer to stay wrong on this.Edited by Dorrino on October 4, 2017 12:06AM0
This discussion has been closed.