Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!

Mystrius_Archaion

pieratsos wrote: »

@Dorrino

I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.

It gives them tools to react to those situations when they make mistakes? But doesn't that take skill as well?
It requires skill either way. The addon isn't reacting for you, but if it did then it would be a botting program and a bannable offense.

DDuke

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@Dorrino

I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.

It gives them tools to react to those situations when they make mistakes? But doesn't that take skill as well?
It requires skill either way. The addon isn't reacting for you, but if it did then it would be a botting program and a bannable offense.

Just to make it clear once again: the addon reduces the reaction time required by 1s+ by showing the cast bar of opponents.

Which one takes more skill, reacting to something in 1s+ (+travel time if it's a projectile skill), or reacting to something in 1s+ less time than that?

Consider that human average reaction speed is 0,2s, having your opponent's 1s+ long cast bar visible means no cast time ability will ever land if your opponent knows how to hit the dodge roll (or cloak) key on keyboard.

MisterBigglesworth

This visual cue should just be built into the game, no addon needed.
BUT it should not be detectable from a sneaking/invisible enemy.
Also, detect range in front of you 45m. Detect range behind you only 10m since your character wouldn't "see" it, only hear it.

pieratsos

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Someone doesnt pay attention to what is going on, makes a mistake, turns his back, doesnt position correctly or whatever and yet still reacts because of the addon. I mean feel free to disagree but you are wrong on this one. There is really nothing to disagree about that. Its that simple.

Wrong that i want them to be able to react like this? Wrong that i like when they react like this? Wrong that i enjoy giving chances to people to correct their mistakes?:)

Well, that's who i am. I prefer to stay wrong on this.

Situational awareness, positioning and paying attention are part of player skill. The addon takes away that. Again, its that simple.

Mistakes not getting punished is the reason why PVP is so bad. You can correct your mistakes. You made a mistake and you took the hit, cc or whatever but you are still alive. You react and get urself back in the fight. Thats also player skill and thats how you correct mistakes. Not by an addon telling you the mistake you did so you can react as if it never happened.

Mystrius_Archaion

DDuke wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@Dorrino

I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.

It gives them tools to react to those situations when they make mistakes? But doesn't that take skill as well?
It requires skill either way. The addon isn't reacting for you, but if it did then it would be a botting program and a bannable offense.

Just to make it clear once again: the addon reduces the reaction time required by 1s+ by showing the cast bar of opponents.

Which one takes more skill, reacting to something in 1s+ (+travel time if it's a projectile skill), or reacting to something in 1s+ less time than that?

Consider that human average reaction speed is 0,2s, having your opponent's 1s+ long cast bar visible means no cast time ability will ever land if your opponent knows how to hit the dodge roll (or cloak) key on keyboard.

You are forgetting the difference between instinct and intelligence.
Reaction time may be that fast, but they also have to think "how do I react to this?" which is the subconscious question that the brain starts with whenever input is received.

Either way, it takes thought and skill that varies between players.

Will this make it easier for a super skilled player? Yes, but they were likely never at risk anyway.
Will this make it easier for a not skilled player? Maybe but likely not due to them just not knowing how best to react.

In the end, it's no real difference to how it is without the addon.

WreckfulAbandon

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Someone doesnt pay attention to what is going on, makes a mistake, turns his back, doesnt position correctly or whatever and yet still reacts because of the addon. I mean feel free to disagree but you are wrong on this one. There is really nothing to disagree about that. Its that simple.

Wrong that i want them to be able to react like this? Wrong that i like when they react like this? Wrong that i enjoy giving chances to people to correct their mistakes?:)

Well, that's who i am. I prefer to stay wrong on this.

Your playstyle is largely unnaffected by your addon though. No amount of mental gymnastics can detract from the fact that you and your group all (smartly) minimize exposure to "counterplay" granted by your addon.

Poison injection, SA, incap, lots of instant abilities there, almost like you don't want them to be able to react...

Feel free to prove me wrong though and start using channeled abilities other than ballista

I don't blame you one bit. I think ZOS should restrict more of the API but that's on them.

Skoomah

How is this not considered cheating? And by the way, the MIATS add on was used for a very long time in a close nit circle before it was published for the general population. There are other add ons that are not shared that do much more than what is currently widely available.

Dorrino

pieratsos wrote: »

Situational awareness, positioning and paying attention are part of player skill. The addon takes away that. Again, its that simple.

Mistakes not getting punished is the reason why PVP is so bad. You can correct your mistakes. You made a mistake and you took the hit, cc or whatever but you are still alive. You react and get urself back in the fight. Thats also player skill and thats how you correct mistakes. Not by an addon telling you the mistake you did so you can react as if it never happened.

And i would insist that if an addon correct mistakes on the verge of human perception we need more and better addons like this, because there're some limits to perception you can't overcome.

It stops being 'ill use an addon instead of learning' and instead becomes 'i'll use an addon to perceive something i wouldn't be able to perceive otherwise due to limitations of the default ui'.

It's not about being bad. It's about being better.

Alternatively you can keep nagging ZOS to make these sounds louder, those sounds quieter, these visuals brighter etc.

Or you (and ZOS) can outsorce all these man-hours to unpaid modders:)

I have a feeling that the later option is a bit cheaper and more effectively solves the problem:)

Dorrino

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Your playstyle is largely unnaffected by your addon though. No amount of mental gymnastics can detract from the fact that you and your group all (smartly) minimize exposure to "counterplay" granted by your addon.

Let me remind you that stamblades are the most affected and most of complains come from them including our dear topicstarter:)

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Poison injection, SA, incap, lots of instant abilities there, almost like you don't want them to be able to react...

Feel free to prove me wrong though and start using channeled abilities other than ballista

I don't blame you one bit. I think ZOS should restrict more of the API but that's on them.

I'm proving it all the time when i don't attack many people and in 95% of cases allow people to get up if they run out of stam on their mounts:)

What more would you want from me? Play a mag sorc? I can't. Way too boring and unfair (in my humble and quite likely wrong opinion).

pieratsos

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@Dorrino

I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.

It gives them tools to react to those situations when they make mistakes? But doesn't that take skill as well?
It requires skill either way. The addon isn't reacting for you, but if it did then it would be a botting program and a bannable offense.

Situational awareness, positioning urself and paying attention to ur opponents is player skill and probably the most vital part of PVP. It doesnt equate to pressing one button after something popped up in ur screen and told you the mistake you did as if it never happened.

Sure it takes some sort of skill to press that button (at least u are not a full potato) but the game being dumbed down to that point is the reason why its so bad now.

DDuke

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Situational awareness, positioning and paying attention are part of player skill. The addon takes away that. Again, its that simple.

Mistakes not getting punished is the reason why PVP is so bad. You can correct your mistakes. You made a mistake and you took the hit, cc or whatever but you are still alive. You react and get urself back in the fight. Thats also player skill and thats how you correct mistakes. Not by an addon telling you the mistake you did so you can react as if it never happened.

And i would insist that if an addon correct mistakes on the verge of human perception we need more and better addons like this, because there're some limits to perception you can't overcome.

It stops being 'ill use an addon instead of learning' and instead becomes 'i'll use an addon to perceive something i wouldn't be able to perceive otherwise due to limitations of the default ui'.

It's not about being bad. It's about being better.

Alternatively you can keep nagging ZOS to make these sounds louder, those sounds quieter, these visuals brighter etc.

Or you (and ZOS) can outsorce all these man-hours to unpaid modders:)

I have a feeling that the later option is a bit cheaper and more effectively solves the problem:)

Cool, can you make me an addon that allows me to see behind walls? I'd like to enhance my perception.

....
I hope you can realize how ridiculous that whole argument of yours sounds.


Let me offer you some other analogies:

Should bad tennis players start building bigger & bigger rackets because they can't hit the ball?

Should bad FPS players design and use aim bots because they can't aim?


The answer is no. It's just cheating, simple as that.

WreckfulAbandon

Dorrino wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Your playstyle is largely unnaffected by your addon though. No amount of mental gymnastics can detract from the fact that you and your group all (smartly) minimize exposure to "counterplay" granted by your addon.

Let me remind you that stamblades are the most affected and most of complains come from them including our dear topicstarter:)

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Poison injection, SA, incap, lots of instant abilities there, almost like you don't want them to be able to react...

Feel free to prove me wrong though and start using channeled abilities other than ballista

I don't blame you one bit. I think ZOS should restrict more of the API but that's on them.

I'm proving it all the time when i don't attack many people and in 95% of cases allow people to get up if they run out of stam on their mounts:)

What more would you want from me? Play a mag sorc? I can't. Way too boring and unfair (in my humble and quite likely wrong opinion).

But most stamblades are potatoes, which you clearly aren't. Hence why you pick the superior attack options.

I can't deny that you and your group actually seek good fights and don't just kick around PvEers. So, kudos to you as a player (no sarcasm) but I would prefer analog situational awareness to digital.

Mystrius_Archaion

pieratsos wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@Dorrino

I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.

It gives them tools to react to those situations when they make mistakes? But doesn't that take skill as well?
It requires skill either way. The addon isn't reacting for you, but if it did then it would be a botting program and a bannable offense.

Situational awareness, positioning urself and paying attention to ur opponents is player skill and probably the most vital part of PVP. It doesnt equate to pressing one button after something popped up in ur screen and told you the mistake you did as if it never happened.

Sure it takes some sort of skill to press that button (at least u are not a full potato) but the game being dumbed down to that point is the reason why its so bad now.

It was always "dumbed down". It never required skill to pick a build off the internet. It doesn't require a whole lot of skill to aim either considering the game mostly aims for you. That's the heart of the problem.
These MMOs are never skill based games at the heart of their controls because of auto-aim/tab-targeting and huge AoEs and simple "counter everything of a specific type" mechanics like block and roll dodge. After all, block looks like it points forward but you can block something behind you , and you can roll dodge in line with something and in the same red area and still not get hit by that attack when you definitely should have been.

Arguing skill in this game is pointless. This addon is just the way the game already works so they haven't killed it for that reason.

pieratsos

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Situational awareness, positioning and paying attention are part of player skill. The addon takes away that. Again, its that simple.

Mistakes not getting punished is the reason why PVP is so bad. You can correct your mistakes. You made a mistake and you took the hit, cc or whatever but you are still alive. You react and get urself back in the fight. Thats also player skill and thats how you correct mistakes. Not by an addon telling you the mistake you did so you can react as if it never happened.

And i would insist that if an addon correct mistakes on the verge of human perception we need more and better addons like this, because there're some limits to perception you can't overcome.

It stops being 'ill use an addon instead of learning' and instead becomes 'i'll use an addon to perceive something i wouldn't be able to perceive otherwise due to limitations of the default ui'.

It's not about being bad. It's about being better.

Alternatively you can keep nagging ZOS to make these sounds louder, those sounds quieter, these visuals brighter etc.

Or you (and ZOS) can outsorce all these man-hours to unpaid modders:)

I have a feeling that the later option is a bit cheaper and more effectively solves the problem:)

I totally agree that there are limits to perception you cant overcome. We are human beings, not robots. There is only so much you can do. At some point you will be overwhelmed, outplayed, make a mistake and simply get punished. Thats also part of the game and thats how you actually get better as a player.

An addon helping you perceive something you wouldnt be able to perceive otherwise doesnt make you a better player. It helps you perform better. There is a big difference.

I totally understand why you use it. Even the players against it use it. They all want to perform better. But it doesnt change the fact that the addon adds up to the issues of the game.

DDuke

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@Dorrino

I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.

It gives them tools to react to those situations when they make mistakes? But doesn't that take skill as well?
It requires skill either way. The addon isn't reacting for you, but if it did then it would be a botting program and a bannable offense.

Situational awareness, positioning urself and paying attention to ur opponents is player skill and probably the most vital part of PVP. It doesnt equate to pressing one button after something popped up in ur screen and told you the mistake you did as if it never happened.

Sure it takes some sort of skill to press that button (at least u are not a full potato) but the game being dumbed down to that point is the reason why its so bad now.

It was always "dumbed down". It never required skill to pick a build off the internet. It doesn't require a whole lot of skill to aim either considering the game mostly aims for you. That's the heart of the problem.
These MMOs are never skill based games at the heart of their controls because of auto-aim/tab-targeting and huge AoEs and simple "counter everything of a specific type" mechanics like block and roll dodge. After all, block looks like it points forward but you can block something behind you , and you can roll dodge in line with something and in the same red area and still not get hit by that attack when you definitely should have been.

Arguing skill in this game is pointless. This addon is just the way the game already works so they haven't killed it for that reason.

It's not "the way the game already works" though. The game doesn't show you opponent's cast bars without this (or similar) addons - especially not when that opponent is stealthed.

Rest of your post I agree with - I'd love if there was more skill shots/aiming involved.
Imagine if Snipe was a long range narrow cone for example - that'd be awesome.

I also floated around the idea of directional block here on the forums back in 2015~ when block was considered kinda op (with stam regen while blocking etc), but ZOS went another route in "fixing" it.


But yeah, that's up to ZOS - same as the fate of these addons.

All I know for certain is that they are no good for build diversity and consequently for the health of this game.

Dorrino

DDuke wrote: »

Cool, can you make me an addon that allows me to see behind walls? I'd like to enhance my perception.

If ZOS decided to provide this option i'd definitely would write an addon for that.

DDuke wrote: »

I hope you can realize how ridiculous that whole argument of yours sounds.

If you don't understand the argument you ask questions.

Trust me, my argument doesn't sound ridiculous to me.

If it does to you, maybe it's time to become curious?

DDuke wrote: »

Should bad tennis players start building bigger & bigger rackets because they can't hit the ball?
Should bad FPS players design and use aim bots because they can't aim?

Ah, it's time for good old sports analogies:)

Unfortunately this game doesn't have grounds for competition.

Otherwise my addon would be build-in and no stealth was allowed, besides some class specific, like, say, nightblades ultimates:)

Any competitive environment starts with clear rules and clear outcomes. And clear metrics to determine the winner.

None of that is present in eso.

No serious competitive game relies on luck, because there would be no grounds for competition.

Pvp in eso in not competitive on any level.

It's just a fun large scale activity where you can make challenges to yourself and socialize with friends.

So within a non-competitive environment the answer to your both questions is - yes absolutely. As long as both of these measures won't raise the effectiveness to the level compared with pro's.

Trust me, pros find it boring as well to 'fight' against average skilled people. That's why we have 1vx. Because 1v1 or 1v2 is boring at 'pro' level. Way too easy.

So let them use whatever they like to get from 'i can't do anything' to 'i feel i can put up some fight'.

And i really hope my addon helps with that.

Dorrino

pieratsos wrote: »

I totally understand why you use it. Even the players against it use it. They all want to perform better. But it doesnt change the fact that the addon adds up to the issues of the game.

I use (and wrote it) to make my battle perceptions more clear. I want to know about some things, i made them large. I don't want to know about some other things, i didn't.

Using it i can do pretty much the same things i can do without, but with less frustration.

pieratsos

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@Dorrino

I understand that you dont like getting sniped from someone in stealth on the other side of the map but the issue is that the addon does a hell of a lot more than to counter that. It also gives people the tools to react to certain situations even when they make mistakes and dont pay attention to what is going on around them. Thats why people tell you that it takes away skill from the game.

It gives them tools to react to those situations when they make mistakes? But doesn't that take skill as well?
It requires skill either way. The addon isn't reacting for you, but if it did then it would be a botting program and a bannable offense.

Situational awareness, positioning urself and paying attention to ur opponents is player skill and probably the most vital part of PVP. It doesnt equate to pressing one button after something popped up in ur screen and told you the mistake you did as if it never happened.

Sure it takes some sort of skill to press that button (at least u are not a full potato) but the game being dumbed down to that point is the reason why its so bad now.

It was always "dumbed down". It never required skill to pick a build off the internet. It doesn't require a whole lot of skill to aim either considering the game mostly aims for you. That's the heart of the problem.
These MMOs are never skill based games at the heart of their controls because of auto-aim/tab-targeting and huge AoEs and simple "counter everything of a specific type" mechanics like block and roll dodge. After all, block looks like it points forward but you can block something behind you , and you can roll dodge in line with something and in the same red area and still not get hit by that attack when you definitely should have been.

Arguing skill in this game is pointless. This addon is just the way the game already works so they haven't killed it for that reason.

No, it wasnt always dumbed down. It wasnt perfect and it will never be. The point isnt to make it perfect. It always had issues, bugs, even game breaking bugs but the core gameplay wasnt always like it is now. You want some examples about what skilled gameplay used to be. Reflect and double reflect.

Once upon a time you had to think twice before throwing a meteor on a DK cause it could get you killed. You could also throw a meteor deliberately on a DK cause you would double reflect it. Thinking before you do something and mistakes getting punished. Thats skill. I can also give you examples of fights that actually happened and showcase that skill. Those type of fights are very rare these days. The game has been dumbed down to one button build wonders with no player skill involved and mistakes never getting punished.

And while the addon ofc isnt responsible for all those issues, it still has the same functionality. Removing skill from the game and mistakes not getting punished.

DDuke

@Dorrino , perhaps you should go make your own MMO?

You make it sound like you enjoy hijacking the development process of the game & making addons that affect the gameplay of everyone in game (not just the users of said addon). Not everyone agrees with your "vision" of a perfect competitive game.

If there aren't "clear rules and clear outcomes", that doesn't mean you get to determine those for everyone playing the game.


You're right on one thing though: ESO isn't a competitive game - and that's largely (not entirely) due to your addon & the API which permits it.

Also:

No serious competitive game relies on luck, because there would be no grounds for competition.

Hearthstone would like a word with you

Dorrino

DDuke wrote: »

@Dorrino , perhaps you should go make your own MMO?

You make it sound like you enjoy hijacking the development process of the game & making addons that affect the gameplay of everyone in game (not just the users of said addon). Not everyone agrees with your "vision" of a perfect competitive game.

Again and again you forget that this is not my vision. This is ZOS vision. That's how ZOS built the game.

I just happen to realize how to make a pretty form out of what they chose to provide.

DDuke wrote: »

If there aren't "clear rules and clear outcomes", that doesn't mean you get to determine those for everyone playing the game.

Should we choose you to be the representative of the community then?:)

Or maybe we can allow ZOS to play the role of the designer here?

I understand it's much easier to relieve your frustration on me instead of them, because i talk to you and they don't, though:)

DDuke wrote: »

You're right on one thing though: ESO isn't a competitive game - and that's largely due to your addon & the API which permits it.

Alrighty:) You incite proudness in me.

DDuke wrote: »

Hearthstone would like a word with you

And that's exactly why it's not a natural competitive game. It's forced to be one. And people are complaining left and right about rng.

But yep, it's popular, so paying for competitions is worthwhile investment of ads money.

But Heartstone is really famous for players frustration with rng.

pieratsos

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

I totally understand why you use it. Even the players against it use it. They all want to perform better. But it doesnt change the fact that the addon adds up to the issues of the game.

I use (and wrote it) to make my battle perceptions more clear. I want to know about some things, i made them large. I don't want to know about some other things, i didn't.

Using it i can do pretty much the same things i can do without, but with less frustration.

Yep, you can do pretty much the same things with or without it. Except when you do mistakes. And when you turn ur back. And when you dont pay attention around you. And see other people's cast time bars? Well i guess you really cant do the same things without it. I mean, thats why people use it after all.

Dorrino

pieratsos wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

I totally understand why you use it. Even the players against it use it. They all want to perform better. But it doesnt change the fact that the addon adds up to the issues of the game.

I use (and wrote it) to make my battle perceptions more clear. I want to know about some things, i made them large. I don't want to know about some other things, i didn't.

Using it i can do pretty much the same things i can do without, but with less frustration.

Yep, you can do pretty much the same things with or without it. Except when you do mistakes. And when you turn ur back. And when you dont pay attention around you. And see other people's cast time bars? Well i guess you really cant do same things without it after all. I mean thats why people use it after all.

The thing is that i do. I do everything you said with a lot of prediction. But some things are beyond my control and some things require very strict timing that considerably more vague default ui doesn't provide.

In the result in say 10 1v5 i win 9. Without the addon i'd win say 7. Same result with a bit larger amount of split second deaths.

So i really can do the same thing after all:)

DDuke

Dorrino wrote: »

I understand it's much easier to relieve your frustration on me instead of them, because i talk to you and they don't, though:)

That's true I suppose - you're making it easy by actually trying to defend how the API functions though.


Have you kept count on how many threads there have been? How many pages each?

If nothing else, atleast I'll have farmed a decent amount of agrees by making this thread *shrug*

Dorrino

DDuke wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

I understand it's much easier to relieve your frustration on me instead of them, because i talk to you and they don't, though:)

That's true I suppose - you're making it easy by actually trying to defend how the API functions though.


Have you kept count on how many threads there have been? How many pages each?

If nothing else, atleast I'll have farmed a decent amount of agrees by making this thread *shrug*

More than 3 of 15 pages+.

I'm doing my best to educate people:D

WillhelmBlack

Thing is it's so frigging obvious who's using it and the advantage it gives in a fight, well I just pull out of the fight. It's just completely broken.

pieratsos

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

I totally understand why you use it. Even the players against it use it. They all want to perform better. But it doesnt change the fact that the addon adds up to the issues of the game.

I use (and wrote it) to make my battle perceptions more clear. I want to know about some things, i made them large. I don't want to know about some other things, i didn't.

Using it i can do pretty much the same things i can do without, but with less frustration.

Yep, you can do pretty much the same things with or without it. Except when you do mistakes. And when you turn ur back. And when you dont pay attention around you. And see other people's cast time bars? Well i guess you really cant do same things without it after all. I mean thats why people use it after all.

The thing is that i do. I do everything you said with a lot of prediction. But some things are beyond my control and some things require very strict timing that considerably more vague default ui doesn't provide.

In the result in say 10 1v5 i win 9. Without the addon i'd win say 7. Same result with a bit larger amount of split second deaths.

So i really can do the same thing after all:)

You said some things are beyond ur control and there would be a difference in results with or without the addon and concluded that you can do the same things.

I guess common sense isnt so common for you. No point discussing this even further.

Dorrino

pieratsos wrote: »

You said some things are beyond ur control and there would be a difference in results with or without the addon and concluded that you can do the same things.

I guess common sense isnt so common for you. No point discussing this even further.

I wonder why exactly people who argue against the addon have to use personal insults:)

What is that the addon does to people to behave like this?:D

'The same' doesn't mean 'exactly the same', obviously. The same in this context was supposed to mean 'of a similar quality'.

Without UI at all i'd be able to do the sam.. things of a similar quality as well:) With even higher probability of mistake.

Similar quality - still can successfully fight say, 5 people. Still can properly use terrain and other type of situational awareness. Etc, etc.

None of the addons provides exactly the same effectiveness because why would people even use the addons?:)

KingMagaw

ZoS allows this because they dont want to invest in making UI or add-ons themselves and working on the API now would be a heartache for them. To limit this in any way would discourage people from making them and force them to update a crap UI the base game has.

Miatts gives a clear advantage to someone using it over someone not using it. Even the author said as much in this thread.


There are many other addons not released to the sheep for the same reason of what happened to Miatts before the API change in which it was performing/giving a bigger advantage than it is now and public outcry got it toned down. ESO is simply an exploit fest and by no means a competitive environment.

Publius_Scipio

Right before launch Paul Sage fought in order to prevent addons like Miat's from even being possible. He knew and he understood what would happen giving players a chance to tinker with the API. He unfortunately lost that battle. But it is in threads like these that his memory and vision fights on. Fights on for a brighter day in Tamriel. We can all envy the consoles environment for this reason.

The men and women of ZOS are good people. I have never met them but I believe it to be true from the various interviews and ESO Live, etc that I have seen. I believe that if the answer was truly as simple as flipping a switch Miat's addon and many like it would have been out of business long ago. It is unfortunate, unfortunate that an addon can give a player an advantage, no matter how small or large, over a fellow player. I have no doubt that if Miat played in the MLB he would have been suspended for PED use because he deemed the stadiums too large and unfair, thus robbing him of home runs. Unfortunate.... But it won't stop me from jumping into Tamriel and fighting the good fight.

Morgul667

This addon and related api should be banned/taken off the game already

Thats simple cheating