Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!

LegendaryMage

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, I'd argue it's unfair out of stealth as well, since you can no longer "hide" cast animations by standing behind pets or jumping etc, so it essentially takes away from player skill there as well (not to mention allowing you to dodge frags etc that fly in from out of your FoV).

LegendaryMage wrote: »

No, that's not what you did. Displaying information after it happens is one thing. Displaying information about something that is going to happen is completely different.

If you and me are in PVP and I'm positioned behind you, you're trying to run away from me and I'm trying to frag you in the back, how in the world is it fair to me that you KNOW exactly when to press block or dodge to avoid being hit?

I think this is the same point.

The problem with this point is that it pushed forward the concept of fairness. And since different people consider different things to be 'fair' and 'unfair' in my mind it can't be a basis for rational discussion and instead becomes a matter of preference.

Say, i'd prefer to know about anything that is directed to my character. Because that's my preference. I don't see a way to refute it without relying on purely emotional pressure, which at best, might just make me scared and stop replying.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Think about it for a minute and tell me in what scenario is this fair to me as your opponent? Because it's technically possible and in the game currently?

Because it's possible and, as in above, because some people consider it only fair to know that. That what fairness is for them.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Your logic is completely flawed and it is absolutely clear to me why you did this in the first place.

Yet again you demonstrate lack of rational reasoning and an attempt to emotionally dominate. I find this unfortunate.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You needed it and you're not the kind of a player that will keep away from exploits. It's tempting and too easy to give in, and so you did.

I'm a kind of player that happen to be considered one of the best stamblades NA. Some think i'm the best, but i'd argue that Kodi might still win by a small margin. Sorry for the pitch.

I was that player before the addon. I still am after.

You, and many other people, don't really understand that Cyro really rarely provides a challenge for me. It become quite boring. I have zero desire to 'do whatever to win' or whatever you might project on me. I sincerely consider the addon as a convenience. I wasn't joking when i said that i could successfully pvp without UI altogether. I did. It's more frustrating though, and i don't consider forced limitations to be a form of challenge.

That's me. You might still find a thing to blame me for. Like lies, all lies:) That's on you.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Didn't the API allow you to see stealthed players in the past too? And if it did, for how long have you been playing like that?

About 2 weeks while i was developing the addons. Since we don't have a 'test cyro' to develop in there wasn't much of a choice.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's true, that sounds like a major exploit to me.

UI addons cannot be exploits by the definition. See above about ZOS, UI, API, design choices etc.

And while you're at it tell me about a way to develop an addon without testing it in the relevant environment.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You see, this is exactly the problem with people like you.

Keep in mind that i don't find a problem in me.

It's you who suddenly have a problem with some other person. Who you never talked to. I'd think about it if i were you.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You don't care what's good for the players, you'll use whatever you can in whatever grey area you find yourself in. If ZOS one day allows cheat engine to be freely used, you'd be one of the first ones to do it according to your quote.

If i had it for myself you might have had a ground, but i don't and thus you don't.

Think again please.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

It's obvious that you made this because you needed it. Without it you were having difficulties in PVP and you couldn't compete with better players. Anyone who depends on crutches or exploits like this, is the same.

See above.

And you might consider it a good time to apologize. We all got temper. But we can learn to control it.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

And next time you try to discredit me as someone who might not know much about PVP, well just keep in mind I don't need your addon to tell me when a frag is coming behind my back.

Yep, i watched a couple of your vidoes. I'd still win you, unless as a mag sorc you'd force a draw. The fact that you play it in its current state already tells quite a lot about you.

You wouldn't win *** man, get off your high horse and stop making excuses for the crutches you're working on.

See, you still following your temper instead of you mind:) Do you feel necessity doing so?

Hey man, I tell things the way they are. If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Publius_Scipio

Miat beat me 5/5 in duels. There was no mathematical way my build could cut through his heals. His damage was ehhh ok. He didn't play like a Kodi. If you guys say he is the best then he is the best.

Dorrino

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

Publius_Scipio

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

Apologize for what? Your addon is bull[snip]. And there was nothing i could do to get through your heals. You're behind a build mine can't beat. You want me to apologize and say you are like Kodi?

Edit: I am sorry Miat, you are Kodi's NB father.

Dorrino

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

Apologize for what? Your addon is bull[snip]. And there was nothing i could do to get through your heals. You're behind a build mine can't beat. You want me to apologize and say you are like Kodi?

Edit: I am sorry Miat, you are Kodi's NB father.

Apologies for bashing me on the forums, obviously. Do whatever with my addon. That's irrelevant.

Publius_Scipio

Dorrino wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

Apologize for what? Your addon is bull[snip]. And there was nothing i could do to get through your heals. You're behind a build mine can't beat. You want me to apologize and say you are like Kodi?

Edit: I am sorry Miat, you are Kodi's NB father.

Apologies for bashing me on the forums, obviously. Do whatever with my addon. That's irrelevant.

Bashing you. You're arguments you have put up against anyone here, including the legendary mage EU guy are all designed to simply off load the point they are trying to make. Like a child saying "I know you are but what am I". I personally don't follow the logic in your arguments. But it doesn't matter because I am not ZOS. I am only 1 "voice" here on these vast forums of thousands of voices.

LegendaryMage spelled it out for you, your addon gives you information about attacks that are YET TO HAPPEN. If you don't think your addon gives someone using it an advantage over someone else who isn't. Then I have nothing else I can argue here.

LegendaryMage

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

DDuke

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

So true...

Do people really still use medium armor in NA? Might be why ZOS is so slow at balancing...

That said, I did find a pretty strong medium build in PTS. And not just medium but bow/bow as well (yeah, crazy, I know).

Only problem is that it's useless as long as people can see my cast bar while I'm cloaked and 100% guaranteed dodge the combo <.<

A 3rd party addon should never be able to ruin other peoples' builds, that just makes me angry af

Dorrino

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

LegendaryMage spelled it out for you, your addon gives you information about attacks that are YET TO HAPPEN. If you don't think your addon gives someone using it an advantage over someone else who isn't. Then I have nothing else I can argue here.

And you're got a point. Your attitude makes sense.

My stance is different though. But that does not make you 'bad' in my eyes. We just disagree on something and i can only respect that.

The 'bashing' parts comes with all derogatory comments directed at me as a person or a player, because i developed the addon. This tells me that it's not ok that we disagree, i need to be forced into your attitude. Respect alone is not enough.

That, above, is bashing. And i'm used to it already:) But, as probably most other people i'd prefer the discussion to be about the subject and not myself if the subject is the cause of problems.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

That's understandable. In this case it wasn't a brag. I see no need to brag about anything. Other people are always there to judge. As i said i tried to get rid of pointless 'you suck that's why attitude'. It won't bring anything to the discussion, especially since it's false in the present case.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different?

Because it's not a point what am i:) The point is to talk about the addon and not myself. Accept whatever you like, just try to reduce the amount of easy solutions as 'you did it, that's why you defend it' and 'you did it, because you suck'.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I always love this type of invitations:) No, my friend, it's up to you to make whatever you want on NA. Level it. Get all the passives and check it out if i suck or not, if you need to know that before starting a rational discussion:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise.

Well, since i've seen your gameplay and you haven't seen mine, it's the other way around. I guarantee you that you will lose and be quite surprised because of that.

But yet again to me that's irrelevant. I'm having this conversation because it seems to be important to you to figure out 'whether he sucks part':)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

Against heavy dueling meta?:) Definitely. I might force a draw, that's the best result.

You linked your sorc vid though, and i commented of mag sorc specifically.

But again, even against full heavy meta i'd force a draw on med stamblade. Regardless of class/spec.

Magplars are winnable. Nightblades are not, stamplars most likely are not as well. Stam wardens are not. Magwardens might be, unless they turtle up with trees. Stamdk is a draw. Magdks are winnable. if there's a good dueling heavy magblade meta then they are not winnable. In light they are. Heavy stam sorc is winnable along with med stam sorc. That''s about the heavy meta. At equal skill level, obviously.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

Trust me, i know what you talk about. Yet again and again you keep assuming inferiority of your opponent without factual information. This is quite nearsighted to say the least.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like.

There's a huge difference between sugar coating and spilling out whatever you might feel about other people and their creations.

Politeness exist for the reason to reduce the amount of fights and unnecessary deaths. I respect that approach:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time.

Totally within your right. Preferences can't be argued about.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

I disagree about the wrong part. Additionally as many other people you picked the wrong people to address your grievances. I can't eliminate anything. It's in ZOS API. I can't influence their choice even if i found the need to.

Vapirko

DDuke wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

To reiterate:

1. Whatever is provided in the API is desirable and intended part of the game as deemed by game designers.

Nope.

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg: I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

Dorrino wrote: »

2. If something is suspected to slip through QA it has to be promptly reported and amended.

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

Dorrino wrote: »

3.The whole attacks notification part of the addon (~5% of addon features) have been examined by the dev team and appropriate actions have been taken. This happened about half a year ago.

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

Dorrino wrote: »

4. Since ultimately it's eso dev's choice what has to be a part of the game and its UI, i consider the case closed and remaining part of PVP alerts to be desirable within the design paradigm of eso.

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

ZOS_ChipHilseberg: I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

Dorrino wrote: »

5. Personally i find the whole addon and its parts to be strictly beneficial for the pvp comminuty as a whole and individual players in particular.

Yeah, well, let me just quote you:

Dorrino wrote: »

7. Whatever i want, like and prefer as a player is fully irrelevant since i have no way to impose any vision of mine on other players if it contradicts dev team vision of the game.

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

Well, I'm glad majority of the player base disagree with you: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Dorrino wrote: »

6. If the addon makes some aspects of the gameplay harder and some easier, given 4. (see above) i understand that as the desired game balance decision of the eso dev team. They have a right to balance the game with the regard and by the means of custom addons in addition to dev team provided UI and given all the above - they execute their right.

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.


So no, you are quite simply wrong.

ZOS_ChipHilseberg: I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

Well said.

UnseenTruth

DDuke wrote: »

Most of the people in the game want

i missed LOL button so much
most on the forum, not game

Derra

laced wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nope.

Yep.

Chip got a question from me, Chip replied to the best of his understanding. Chip is not a game designer and has nothing to do with making choices about it.

His personal understanding was in his reply.

I took it as a guidance and none of the new features of any of my addons exhibited anything along those lines.

Since they didn't take actions on channeled abilities from stealth, i could only assume that Chip reply was general guidance instead of any kind of rule or law.

Lack of both actions and comments on the state of pvpalerts since that time from anybody of the dev team serves as an unambiguous indicator that the whole of pvpalerts fits within eso design paradigm.

DDuke wrote: »

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

I find this feature desirable and thus see no reason for reports. *rolls eyes even harder*

DDuke wrote: »

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

I think they didn't skip anything and instead found the remaining features fitting in their design paradigm.

Multiple reports since that time and lack of any kind of reaction over the course of multiple major patches strongly supports that.

DDuke wrote: »

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Unfortunately for you, majority of player base didn't vote, didn't understand what the addon does and didn't understand what the addon stopped doing after ZOS fixes.

Very similar to you, so no surprise here.

DDuke wrote: »

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

I can effectively play 'bow build' with the presence of the addon. We cannot base our judgements on our limited combat skills and knowledge of the game. Again, unfortunately for you.

"bow builds' take the same niche they always had in eso pvp. xv1/zergvzerg single target hard hitting spammable.

Since you apparently you're not knowledgeable enough on the subject, the only other application of 'bow builds' in pvp was 3-shot gank from invis. This aspect was primarily nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth.

Otherwise it's purely learn to play issue and you should educate yourself.

DDuke wrote: »

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

I'm not sure why you're lacking capabilities to understand that any company that has an open UI API does balance the game with the use of the API in addition to the direct balance changes to the game.

But since you are - that's exactly what happens, because UI plays one of the major roles in combat awareness in any game. And since addons modifiy UI they modify the combat. And since UI is fully within control of the dev team, any change to UI API effectively changes the balance of the game.

This is not a hard subject. Just stop denying it.

DDuke wrote: »

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.

The fact that eso dev team decided not to allocate the necessary resources to make addons available on the consoles, has nothing to do with the desirability of addons on the console. This discontinuity between console UI and PC UI is fully on the dev team.

DDuke wrote: »

So no, you are quite simply wrong.

So, unfortunately for you, i'm totally correct here.

Please properly educate yourself before trying to reply to me.

Thank you.

Really, all I hear in this whole thing is " me me me ". Not taking a large portion of the playerbase into account. And considering every poll that has come out has been largely in favor of getting rid of these cancerous add ons, you sayng it is beneficial to the majority of the playbase is just flat wrong.

That´s 100% the same for the people that want the addon removed.

It´s also 'me me me' because it impairs their build.

Then you probably have the largest portion of the playerbase (like myself) that don´t really care either way. I use the addon because I personally think it´s deemed fine by zos (even if it´s only due to the lack of action taken against it) and it does offer improved gameplay for me solely by having a soundcue i can hear better than the ingame ones.
I probably would not care if that functionality was removed - i´d still use other parts of the addon because the functionality provided apart from the attack notification is absolutely awesome and should really be part of the base game.

Derra

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

@Dorrino , Your add on would be considered a cheat in any other game I have played. The fact that it isn't here doesn't speak to your add on, but to the developers not caring.

It is a cheat 100%.

It's ridiculously idiotic game design that the guy is/was taking advantage of because he was too lazy to l2p like the rest of us.

You can never expect from players to not go for any advantage that they can, I've seen it countless of times with many different players over the years.

From exploiting 3+ mundus stones, to running toggle skills on overload bar, to wearing the most OP gear and combos that exist (even bugged ones like savior's hide sometime ago), to exploiting VMA and making public guides on how to do it, to blatantly running cheat engine for so long without anyone knowing before the NA dudes started publicizing it, to whatever else was going on, all this time.

So this doesn't surprise me at all. Just another BS thing we need to deal with...

I, personally, will never install crap like this and can not respect any PVP'er who's using it. Things like this make me want to play on consoles sometimes.

You should really give it a try and deactivate any function you find providing an unfair advantage.

The 3D symbols are a great improvement of the base game. The kill feat is awesome (reminds me so much of daoc where you could see any killingblow made in the same zone).
It has loads of functionality that make it a great addon (one if not the best for an improved cyrodiil experience - without providing in combat advantages) apart from the attack notification.

Ragnaroek93

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

Have nothing to add there, but it might change when heavy armor will lose Shuffle. I'm trying to not log in at the moment because it feels like a waste of time to be honest.

Does this add on work in duels or only in Cyro?

Koensol

Jesus... this thread is still going on? Don't you people have a job or something? I don't see why it is so difficult to comprend that using an addon to completely counter an ingame mechanic is wrong. How can you be this far from reality? Like really? Is your hate of stealth gameplay so deeply rooted that you just refuse to see how nonsensical this addon is?

Again, if you don't agree with how stealth works in this game, that is a DIFFERENT DISCUSSION. Don't mingle the two subjects and use your dislike of stealth as a way to justify the functions of this addon.

#Inb4 "b.. b.. but API allows it s.. s.. so it has to be right, right?" Pathetic excuses at its best.

InvitationNotFound

laced wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Does anyone know if Miat's addon is the only addon that gives detection of channeled attacks from stealth or are there others with that function for public download ?

It is the only public one. There are also private ones that activate auto block / roll, and auto light attack weaves. And ZoS does nothing about those either. People are slowly understanding that the api allows for really questionable things, and are exploiting it to the maximum extent. And ZoS just sits back and collects the money.

I call this bs. Provide evidence. The API does not offer such functions as you describe them, at least as far as i know.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

So that's why you're defending it so much.

I'm 'defending it' because it's awesome. I developed it, because it'd be awesome to have. I released it, so some other people would feel awesome to have it.

I don't do and don't defend stuff that i don't find awesome.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Instead of using your coding skills to code something that can actually help (in a good way) other players, you make this crap? Seriously?

I did. Check my esoui profile. Anything there falls into your requirement.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Do I have any PVP skill? What does it matter if I have any PVP skill or not, I saw your work and know what it does. I have enough experience (and common sense) to understand how idiotic it is. What is ignorant about my opinion?

Since you call it idiotic and generally started with throwing around profanities, i can only assume you both don't understand what the addon does and you don't understand how pvp works. Thus my question.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Also tell me, why would you need this if you're any good in PVP?

Because it's awesome. I like the information to be presented in a convenient way.

I'm not sure how can you need any addon at all?

I can play pvp without UI. I don't like it, but i'm more than capable to do that. Why would i not play with something awesome, though?

How can anyone argue with the " Because I and my add ons are awesome " argument.

It's not an argument. It's my personal opinion.

Are we getting to a point when i'm supposed to double check my personal opinions with the community?:P

The issue is that this addon is presenting something to the player that they normally would never be able to see, anywhere given the games base UI. The opponent would literally have to be unstealthed for a player to see the cast-time to be shown in the base UI. In essence, it gives you a poor-mans stealth alert (for a second).

In essence, providing a combative skill to the game via an addon. It isn't something where it takes time to react to (like keep updates, attacks), but something that can be acted upon immediately for instant results.

Same as above, don't just post things here. Read through the other comments. The base UI argument is ***.

STEVIL

laced wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

The only fact that matters is that despite 16 pages of this thread, numerous similarly long threads in past 6 months and overall negative view of community towards this issue (including several polls favoring heavily the remove option) there was still no official response that would clearly state that they do not see anything wrong with currently offered features like stealth channel warning, channel warning and attack launch warning. Nor any action made towards balancing the game with existence of these features in mind.

I doubt we will ever get a response to be honest, the facts are there, the majority on here, reddit, pretty much all social media, and the zone chat in particular in cyro, are all against this add on and add ons like it. But for some reason ZoS chooses to either .

A : Ignore the problem completely

or

B : Are working on it at an incredibly slow pace.

In all fairness there should also be

or

c - decided it was Ok as it is now.

not a fan of the add-on in the slightest but the possibility that the folks who can decide decided it was Ok as it is now cannot be dismissed just because i do not like that call.

Jade1986

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

The only fact that matters is that despite 16 pages of this thread, numerous similarly long threads in past 6 months and overall negative view of community towards this issue (including several polls favoring heavily the remove option) there was still no official response that would clearly state that they do not see anything wrong with currently offered features like stealth channel warning, channel warning and attack launch warning. Nor any action made towards balancing the game with existence of these features in mind.

I doubt we will ever get a response to be honest, the facts are there, the majority on here, reddit, pretty much all social media, and the zone chat in particular in cyro, are all against this add on and add ons like it. But for some reason ZoS chooses to either .

A : Ignore the problem completely

or

B : Are working on it at an incredibly slow pace.

In all fairness there should also be

or

c - decided it was Ok as it is now.

not a fan of the add-on in the slightest but the possibility that the folks who can decide decided it was Ok as it is now cannot be dismissed just because i do not like that call.

No response does not mean accepted.

Jade1986

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, I'd argue it's unfair out of stealth as well, since you can no longer "hide" cast animations by standing behind pets or jumping etc, so it essentially takes away from player skill there as well (not to mention allowing you to dodge frags etc that fly in from out of your FoV).

LegendaryMage wrote: »

No, that's not what you did. Displaying information after it happens is one thing. Displaying information about something that is going to happen is completely different.

If you and me are in PVP and I'm positioned behind you, you're trying to run away from me and I'm trying to frag you in the back, how in the world is it fair to me that you KNOW exactly when to press block or dodge to avoid being hit?

I think this is the same point.

The problem with this point is that it pushed forward the concept of fairness. And since different people consider different things to be 'fair' and 'unfair' in my mind it can't be a basis for rational discussion and instead becomes a matter of preference.

Say, i'd prefer to know about anything that is directed to my character. Because that's my preference. I don't see a way to refute it without relying on purely emotional pressure, which at best, might just make me scared and stop replying.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Think about it for a minute and tell me in what scenario is this fair to me as your opponent? Because it's technically possible and in the game currently?

Because it's possible and, as in above, because some people consider it only fair to know that. That what fairness is for them.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Your logic is completely flawed and it is absolutely clear to me why you did this in the first place.

Yet again you demonstrate lack of rational reasoning and an attempt to emotionally dominate. I find this unfortunate.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You needed it and you're not the kind of a player that will keep away from exploits. It's tempting and too easy to give in, and so you did.

I'm a kind of player that happen to be considered one of the best stamblades NA. Some think i'm the best, but i'd argue that Kodi might still win by a small margin. Sorry for the pitch.

I was that player before the addon. I still am after.

You, and many other people, don't really understand that Cyro really rarely provides a challenge for me. It become quite boring. I have zero desire to 'do whatever to win' or whatever you might project on me. I sincerely consider the addon as a convenience. I wasn't joking when i said that i could successfully pvp without UI altogether. I did. It's more frustrating though, and i don't consider forced limitations to be a form of challenge.

That's me. You might still find a thing to blame me for. Like lies, all lies:) That's on you.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Didn't the API allow you to see stealthed players in the past too? And if it did, for how long have you been playing like that?

About 2 weeks while i was developing the addons. Since we don't have a 'test cyro' to develop in there wasn't much of a choice.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's true, that sounds like a major exploit to me.

UI addons cannot be exploits by the definition. See above about ZOS, UI, API, design choices etc.

And while you're at it tell me about a way to develop an addon without testing it in the relevant environment.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You see, this is exactly the problem with people like you.

Keep in mind that i don't find a problem in me.

It's you who suddenly have a problem with some other person. Who you never talked to. I'd think about it if i were you.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

You don't care what's good for the players, you'll use whatever you can in whatever grey area you find yourself in. If ZOS one day allows cheat engine to be freely used, you'd be one of the first ones to do it according to your quote.

If i had it for myself you might have had a ground, but i don't and thus you don't.

Think again please.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

It's obvious that you made this because you needed it. Without it you were having difficulties in PVP and you couldn't compete with better players. Anyone who depends on crutches or exploits like this, is the same.

See above.

And you might consider it a good time to apologize. We all got temper. But we can learn to control it.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

And next time you try to discredit me as someone who might not know much about PVP, well just keep in mind I don't need your addon to tell me when a frag is coming behind my back.

Yep, i watched a couple of your vidoes. I'd still win you, unless as a mag sorc you'd force a draw. The fact that you play it in its current state already tells quite a lot about you.

You wouldn't win *** man, get off your high horse and stop making excuses for the crutches you're working on.

See, you still following your temper instead of you mind:) Do you feel necessity doing so?

We followed our mind, and as a response got.

"It's awesome, I think fairness is relative, everyone is wrong, I am right, I know you are but what am I "

Seriously, lol.

Jade1986

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

I actually like your tone. His on the other hand rubs me the wrong way.

Jade1986

Derra wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nope.

Yep.

Chip got a question from me, Chip replied to the best of his understanding. Chip is not a game designer and has nothing to do with making choices about it.

His personal understanding was in his reply.

I took it as a guidance and none of the new features of any of my addons exhibited anything along those lines.

Since they didn't take actions on channeled abilities from stealth, i could only assume that Chip reply was general guidance instead of any kind of rule or law.

Lack of both actions and comments on the state of pvpalerts since that time from anybody of the dev team serves as an unambiguous indicator that the whole of pvpalerts fits within eso design paradigm.

DDuke wrote: »

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

I find this feature desirable and thus see no reason for reports. *rolls eyes even harder*

DDuke wrote: »

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

I think they didn't skip anything and instead found the remaining features fitting in their design paradigm.

Multiple reports since that time and lack of any kind of reaction over the course of multiple major patches strongly supports that.

DDuke wrote: »

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Unfortunately for you, majority of player base didn't vote, didn't understand what the addon does and didn't understand what the addon stopped doing after ZOS fixes.

Very similar to you, so no surprise here.

DDuke wrote: »

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

I can effectively play 'bow build' with the presence of the addon. We cannot base our judgements on our limited combat skills and knowledge of the game. Again, unfortunately for you.

"bow builds' take the same niche they always had in eso pvp. xv1/zergvzerg single target hard hitting spammable.

Since you apparently you're not knowledgeable enough on the subject, the only other application of 'bow builds' in pvp was 3-shot gank from invis. This aspect was primarily nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth.

Otherwise it's purely learn to play issue and you should educate yourself.

DDuke wrote: »

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

I'm not sure why you're lacking capabilities to understand that any company that has an open UI API does balance the game with the use of the API in addition to the direct balance changes to the game.

But since you are - that's exactly what happens, because UI plays one of the major roles in combat awareness in any game. And since addons modifiy UI they modify the combat. And since UI is fully within control of the dev team, any change to UI API effectively changes the balance of the game.

This is not a hard subject. Just stop denying it.

DDuke wrote: »

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.

The fact that eso dev team decided not to allocate the necessary resources to make addons available on the consoles, has nothing to do with the desirability of addons on the console. This discontinuity between console UI and PC UI is fully on the dev team.

DDuke wrote: »

So no, you are quite simply wrong.

So, unfortunately for you, i'm totally correct here.

Please properly educate yourself before trying to reply to me.

Thank you.

Really, all I hear in this whole thing is " me me me ". Not taking a large portion of the playerbase into account. And considering every poll that has come out has been largely in favor of getting rid of these cancerous add ons, you sayng it is beneficial to the majority of the playbase is just flat wrong.

That´s 100% the same for the people that want the addon removed.

It´s also 'me me me' because it impairs their build.

Then you probably have the largest portion of the playerbase (like myself) that don´t really care either way. I use the addon because I personally think it´s deemed fine by zos (even if it´s only due to the lack of action taken against it) and it does offer improved gameplay for me solely by having a soundcue i can hear better than the ingame ones.
I probably would not care if that functionality was removed - i´d still use other parts of the addon because the functionality provided apart from the attack notification is absolutely awesome and should really be part of the base game.

Ask in zone, the addon is considered cancer across the board. You can also ask on their FB page, reddit page, twitter page, and the response is a resounding "this addon is cancer".

Me me me means you only think about you, and your personal preferences. The people arguing against it however, which somehow is also mememe, are pointing out that this add on is detrimental to multiple playstyles, and point out that it is detrimental to a large portion of players. That is by definition not a "mememe" attitude.

Jade1986

Koensol wrote: »

Jesus... this thread is still going on? Don't you people have a job or something? I don't see why it is so difficult to comprend that using an addon to completely counter an ingame mechanic is wrong. How can you be this far from reality? Like really? Is your hate of stealth gameplay so deeply rooted that you just refuse to see how nonsensical this addon is?

Again, if you don't agree with how stealth works in this game, that is a DIFFERENT DISCUSSION. Don't mingle the two subjects and use your dislike of stealth as a way to justify the functions of this addon.

#Inb4 "b.. b.. but API allows it s.. s.. so it has to be right, right?" Pathetic excuses at its best.

They use the "It's legal so its ok " argument. Which has been proven to be wrong over and over.

Derra

laced wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nope.

Yep.

Chip got a question from me, Chip replied to the best of his understanding. Chip is not a game designer and has nothing to do with making choices about it.

His personal understanding was in his reply.

I took it as a guidance and none of the new features of any of my addons exhibited anything along those lines.

Since they didn't take actions on channeled abilities from stealth, i could only assume that Chip reply was general guidance instead of any kind of rule or law.

Lack of both actions and comments on the state of pvpalerts since that time from anybody of the dev team serves as an unambiguous indicator that the whole of pvpalerts fits within eso design paradigm.

DDuke wrote: »

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

I find this feature desirable and thus see no reason for reports. *rolls eyes even harder*

DDuke wrote: »

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

I think they didn't skip anything and instead found the remaining features fitting in their design paradigm.

Multiple reports since that time and lack of any kind of reaction over the course of multiple major patches strongly supports that.

DDuke wrote: »

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Unfortunately for you, majority of player base didn't vote, didn't understand what the addon does and didn't understand what the addon stopped doing after ZOS fixes.

Very similar to you, so no surprise here.

DDuke wrote: »

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

I can effectively play 'bow build' with the presence of the addon. We cannot base our judgements on our limited combat skills and knowledge of the game. Again, unfortunately for you.

"bow builds' take the same niche they always had in eso pvp. xv1/zergvzerg single target hard hitting spammable.

Since you apparently you're not knowledgeable enough on the subject, the only other application of 'bow builds' in pvp was 3-shot gank from invis. This aspect was primarily nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth.

Otherwise it's purely learn to play issue and you should educate yourself.

DDuke wrote: »

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

I'm not sure why you're lacking capabilities to understand that any company that has an open UI API does balance the game with the use of the API in addition to the direct balance changes to the game.

But since you are - that's exactly what happens, because UI plays one of the major roles in combat awareness in any game. And since addons modifiy UI they modify the combat. And since UI is fully within control of the dev team, any change to UI API effectively changes the balance of the game.

This is not a hard subject. Just stop denying it.

DDuke wrote: »

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.

The fact that eso dev team decided not to allocate the necessary resources to make addons available on the consoles, has nothing to do with the desirability of addons on the console. This discontinuity between console UI and PC UI is fully on the dev team.

DDuke wrote: »

So no, you are quite simply wrong.

So, unfortunately for you, i'm totally correct here.

Please properly educate yourself before trying to reply to me.

Thank you.

Really, all I hear in this whole thing is " me me me ". Not taking a large portion of the playerbase into account. And considering every poll that has come out has been largely in favor of getting rid of these cancerous add ons, you sayng it is beneficial to the majority of the playbase is just flat wrong.

That´s 100% the same for the people that want the addon removed.

It´s also 'me me me' because it impairs their build.

Then you probably have the largest portion of the playerbase (like myself) that don´t really care either way. I use the addon because I personally think it´s deemed fine by zos (even if it´s only due to the lack of action taken against it) and it does offer improved gameplay for me solely by having a soundcue i can hear better than the ingame ones.
I probably would not care if that functionality was removed - i´d still use other parts of the addon because the functionality provided apart from the attack notification is absolutely awesome and should really be part of the base game.

Ask in zone, the addon is considered cancer across the board. You can also ask on their FB page, reddit page, twitter page, and the response is a resounding "this addon is cancer".

A person who is unhappy about something is much more likely to be vocal about it - so you get an overwhelmingly negative feedback because the persons that are content with how things are with miats will probably not bother to post in the first place - also due to the animosity or downright hostility and insults they would have to face for their opinion.
It´s in human nature to interpret information in a way it favor their personal pov.

Ultimately it´s on ZOS to give a definitive stance on this addon and they´re the only instance that can resolve the issue.
Sadly having almost a year of inaction makes it look like there is simply no need for them to take action in the current state of affairs.
Compare it to proccsets - something that got equally negative feedback on the forums as miats did/does and has been around about a month longer.
It also had only implications on pvp encounters. Proccsets got adjusted multiple times by now due to this pvp specific feedback.

Edit: On top of that - IF someone at ZOS had decided the addon was fine as is. Would you dare posting that on the forums given the responses to expected? I wouldn´t probably.

STEVIL

laced wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

The only fact that matters is that despite 16 pages of this thread, numerous similarly long threads in past 6 months and overall negative view of community towards this issue (including several polls favoring heavily the remove option) there was still no official response that would clearly state that they do not see anything wrong with currently offered features like stealth channel warning, channel warning and attack launch warning. Nor any action made towards balancing the game with existence of these features in mind.

I doubt we will ever get a response to be honest, the facts are there, the majority on here, reddit, pretty much all social media, and the zone chat in particular in cyro, are all against this add on and add ons like it. But for some reason ZoS chooses to either .

A : Ignore the problem completely

or

B : Are working on it at an incredibly slow pace.

In all fairness there should also be

or

c - decided it was Ok as it is now.

not a fan of the add-on in the slightest but the possibility that the folks who can decide decided it was Ok as it is now cannot be dismissed just because i do not like that call.

No response does not mean accepted.

No response does not also mean working on it at slow pace or ignoring the problem either, right?

The maker seems to want to read no response as "desired", the first two listed here seem to want to read no response as either ignored or negative but slow.

What i am saying is that both are flawed in that they are reading no response tea leaves and simply adding in what they imagine they want to see.

When in fact we did not get "no response". We got "limited response" and "limited action" that left some of the elements some folks like and other folks don't still in play.

Whether that means accepted or not, desired or not, ignored or not, negative but slow or not is all a matter of wishful thinking.

In my mind, my gut tells me that they most likely looked at the issues, decided to fix what they HAD TO and COULD DO without breaking other things (including schedules) and let go what they could live with for now. far from desired, far from ignored, far from "working slow" etc...

But that is just my "imaginings" and no more sound than any of the other 4+ imaginings.

Seeing the shenanigans they have to go to with re-skinning weapons traits in the transmute, it seems obvious that there are some core design wrinkles that make some after-thought changes more difficult than they appear on the surface.

But the majority on all these platforms of social noisemakers do not a majority of the game make nor do they make a majority of the folks who understand the ins and outs of the underlying code and issues. "The "most vocal minority" is not always the best decision making body nor the most informed.

Again, I am NOT a fan of the add-on.

But then again, i am not in favor of **ANY** combat impactful add-on being allowed in PVP or the competitive PVE (such as enhanced buff or debuff trackers,)

I must confess, to my way of thinking, an add-on that showed visible mega-cue and countdown meter-bar for say crystal frags proc for yourself would be in the same boat as this one was - more so before they started with the various buff trackers.

if i had my way, they would add a "no-add-on" campaign so that those who did not want to go into the world of Private Game Tweak Wars could avoid it altogether. Similarly they could have a non-add-on PVE setting keyed to separate leaderboards so again folks can compete at playing the game not compete at writing the best add-ons to boost their performance.


of course, i actually think the "no-add-on" there but "allow add-ons here" is likely a very big monster to tackle.

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

That´s 100% the same for the people that want the addon removed.

It´s also 'me me me' because it impairs their build.

That's not really the same though.

Do I want these API functions gone because I want to play a bow build? Sure.

But it goes beyond that - I want to see other cast time build viable too, ranged magplars, Crystal Blast builds etc etc

More build diversity=more fun PvP.


This addon also doesn't in any way impact the melee build I currently have (and practically the same abilities wise I've had for over 2 years) at all. It only benefits it (you can see multiple examples of how on my latest video).

As in: fixing the API would not make the strongest stealth builds any stronger, it would permit the weaker ones to become competitive and perhaps enter the meta.


Having bow (and other cast time) builds viable doesn't impair anyone else's build either. Can they be an annoyance when they kill you? Sure, but same can be said of anything from permablocking skoria DKs to instagib (no visual/audio cues) melee ganks.

That is to say, having new builds exist doesn't mean your sorc (or any other build) suddenly becomes unplayable, it just means there'll be a lot more people in Cyrodiil/BGs/duels as people can finally atleast play their builds in PvP.

Integral1900

Okay, I give up... what in the name of damnation does api stand for...

DeHei

For me, i would like to see some similar functions for good addons like bufftracker in Teso. There are some more like skyshards, a savefunction for some builds and items or other stuff.

Then deleat the addonfunction from Teso. I really think there should not been allowed using addons and makros, when so much guys cheating with it! They give some automatically functions, which are allow guys to make perfect rotations with pressing just few buttons..
After thst we will see, how much guys are really skilled player and how much were automatically over this "cheataddons"
I dont know a way to ban makros too, but together give just a bit lag this guys are possible to kill other nearly instant... this shouldnt be possible anymore, because its frustrating as fair player...
Only solution on the other hand to get same success with DPS rotations to go same way... i really disagree that

DDuke

Integral1900 wrote: »

Okay, I give up... what in the name of damnation does api stand for...

Application Programming Interface


Simply put: it's practically the protocols ZOS sets for addons - what they're allowed to do and what they aren't.

Derra

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

That´s 100% the same for the people that want the addon removed.

It´s also 'me me me' because it impairs their build.

That's not really the same though.

Do I want these API functions gone because I want to play a bow build? Sure.

But it goes beyond that - I want to see other cast time build viable too, ranged magplars, Crystal Blast builds etc etc

More build diversity=more fun PvP.


This addon also doesn't in any way impact the melee build I currently have (and practically the same abilities wise I've had for over 2 years) at all. It only benefits it (you can see multiple examples of how on my latest video).

As in: fixing the API would not make the strongest stealth builds any stronger, it would permit the weaker ones to become competitive and perhaps enter the meta.


Having bow (and other cast time) builds viable doesn't impair anyone else's build either. Can they be an annoyance when they kill you? Sure, but same can be said of anything from permablocking skoria DKs to instagib (no visual/audio cues) melee ganks.

That is to say, having new builds exist doesn't mean your sorc (or any other build) suddenly becomes unplayable, it just means there'll be a lot more people in Cyrodiil/BGs/duels as people can finally atleast play their builds in PvP.

Read my last post in here - i think it´s more important.

BTW i wish i could make videos. Just today playing from 11am to 1pm i´ve had 13 different occasions where snipes hit me because the soundcue played after i got stunned and the snipe + sound hit me in breakfree animation (no lightattack hit prior to that atleast to combatlog). I got stunned before the arrow soundcue happened (meaning no string release sound happend at all for me) and there were no other players around.

It´s a behavior that i have consistently happen with snipe. Due to the time i played it can´t really be attributed to lag aswell.
I have no idea why it happens and i have no idea how to reproduce it. I know it´s not working as intended as it´s different in duels where i can clearly hear and dodge snipes - but i also always hear the arrow release sound of the string there regardless of range.
My guess is that is has something to due with bugged sound/effect culling when there is other stuff happening in the general area of cyrodiil.

Yes i deactivated the soundcue from the addon and i made a tally for that because i´m that old.

Publius_Scipio

Integral1900 wrote: »

Okay, I give up... what in the name of damnation does api stand for...

Apples Picked Intentionally