Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!

kyle.wilson

I think that people are too focused on 1 addon, and not the fact that ZOS allows this in game.
I guarentee that there are more addons that are being spread privetly that are far worse.

I think the best course of action is to, fill every ZOS employee's inbox with your suggestions on what the API allows.
Start with @ZOS_MattFiror.

I still dont understand how this thread wasn't shut down yesterday, cosidering the warnings I've received for far less.

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

That´s 100% the same for the people that want the addon removed.

It´s also 'me me me' because it impairs their build.

That's not really the same though.

Do I want these API functions gone because I want to play a bow build? Sure.

But it goes beyond that - I want to see other cast time build viable too, ranged magplars, Crystal Blast builds etc etc

More build diversity=more fun PvP.


This addon also doesn't in any way impact the melee build I currently have (and practically the same abilities wise I've had for over 2 years) at all. It only benefits it (you can see multiple examples of how on my latest video).

As in: fixing the API would not make the strongest stealth builds any stronger, it would permit the weaker ones to become competitive and perhaps enter the meta.


Having bow (and other cast time) builds viable doesn't impair anyone else's build either. Can they be an annoyance when they kill you? Sure, but same can be said of anything from permablocking skoria DKs to instagib (no visual/audio cues) melee ganks.

That is to say, having new builds exist doesn't mean your sorc (or any other build) suddenly becomes unplayable, it just means there'll be a lot more people in Cyrodiil/BGs/duels as people can finally atleast play their builds in PvP.

Read my last post in here - i think it´s more important.

BTW i wish i could make videos. Just today playing from 11am to 1pm i´ve had 13 different occasions where snipes hit me because the soundcue played after i got stunned and the snipe + sound hit me in breakfree animation (no lightattack hit prior to that atleast to combatlog). I got stunned before the arrow soundcue happened (meaning no string release sound happend at all for me) and there were no other players around.

It´s a behavior that i have consistently happen with snipe. Due to the time i played it can´t really be attributed to lag aswell.
I have no idea why it happens and i have no idea how to reproduce it. I know it´s not working as intended as it´s different in duels where i can clearly hear and dodge snipes - but i also always hear the arrow release sound of the string there regardless of range.
My guess is that is has something to due with bugged sound/effect culling when there is other stuff happening in the general area of cyrodiil.

Yes i deactivated the soundcue from the addon and i made a tally for that because i´m that old.

And I'll gladly support any thread you make regarding snipe sound cue. I've personally never (since 2014) had problems with it, but I'll take your word for it that some other people might.

However, with or without this addon (and similar ones), are bow & other cast time builds making PvP unplayable for your build? Rhetorical question, since you just wrote you played PvP from 11am to 1pm & I know you still spend time in Cyrodiil (I don't, bored of playing same build for years & being unable to try out different playstyles that interest me, i.e. bow builds)

That's kind of the point I'm getting at: you still get to play PvP - cast time builds don't (atleast if they like winning).


For me, the course of action ZOS needs to take is crystal clear: get rid of these API functions posthaste, asap, immediately & then work on those sound cues that are bugged(?) for some people.

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I think that people are too focused on 1 addon, and not the fact that ZOS allows this in game.
I guarentee that there are more addons that are being spread privetly that are far worse.

I think the best course of action is to, fill every ZOS employee's inbox with your suggestions on what the API allows.
Start with @ZOS_MattFiror.

I still dont understand how this thread wasn't shut down yesterday, cosidering the warnings I've received for far less.

It's cool now, "the best stamblade NA" is sleeping & we can discuss the actual topic and listen to different opinions.

I did title this thread specifically "Restrict Your API" because I didn't want to single out any particular addon - the creator of the most popular "combat alert" one out there starting to argue with people here of course drew attention to that addon, unfortunately.

LegendaryMage

Dorrino wrote: »

@Dorrino alright then bud, I've said everything I had to say, if you'd like to give yourself a few runs with me any time, go on PTS I'll be spending some time there nowadays, so add me when you're around @LegendaryMage and we'll have some fun.

@Derra I've reviewed the functions of the add-on carefully, both on text and in practice (not on my machine though, but on another), and as I said there is good stuff in it, and even stuff that should be a part of the game officially.

But the functions that I don't like (even in its current form) are just too much for me to even consider installing it, let alone previous versions with even more questionable functionality.

With that being said, I personally never used combat add-ons in ESO, I feel like they're not helping me at all in most of situations, but this one really messes up my archer setup, I'm tired of players dodging like pros before they even have a clue what's going on.

That my friend, should not be possible at all.

I would go as far as to say, that ANY 3rd party additional notifications for incoming attacks shouldn't be possible at all - and if I'm wrong, do correct me, but I don't see anything remotely possible within the game's native UI. And for a reason.

In fact, even the auto-music-play when combat starts should be looked into in my opinion.

If they want combat to be better and different than most other stale MMOs out there, then it should not work like most other MMOs out there that depend on auto attacks, notifications gallore and so on. But that's just me.

Jade1986

Derra wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nope.

Yep.

Chip got a question from me, Chip replied to the best of his understanding. Chip is not a game designer and has nothing to do with making choices about it.

His personal understanding was in his reply.

I took it as a guidance and none of the new features of any of my addons exhibited anything along those lines.

Since they didn't take actions on channeled abilities from stealth, i could only assume that Chip reply was general guidance instead of any kind of rule or law.

Lack of both actions and comments on the state of pvpalerts since that time from anybody of the dev team serves as an unambiguous indicator that the whole of pvpalerts fits within eso design paradigm.

DDuke wrote: »

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

I find this feature desirable and thus see no reason for reports. *rolls eyes even harder*

DDuke wrote: »

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

I think they didn't skip anything and instead found the remaining features fitting in their design paradigm.

Multiple reports since that time and lack of any kind of reaction over the course of multiple major patches strongly supports that.

DDuke wrote: »

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Unfortunately for you, majority of player base didn't vote, didn't understand what the addon does and didn't understand what the addon stopped doing after ZOS fixes.

Very similar to you, so no surprise here.

DDuke wrote: »

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

I can effectively play 'bow build' with the presence of the addon. We cannot base our judgements on our limited combat skills and knowledge of the game. Again, unfortunately for you.

"bow builds' take the same niche they always had in eso pvp. xv1/zergvzerg single target hard hitting spammable.

Since you apparently you're not knowledgeable enough on the subject, the only other application of 'bow builds' in pvp was 3-shot gank from invis. This aspect was primarily nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth.

Otherwise it's purely learn to play issue and you should educate yourself.

DDuke wrote: »

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

I'm not sure why you're lacking capabilities to understand that any company that has an open UI API does balance the game with the use of the API in addition to the direct balance changes to the game.

But since you are - that's exactly what happens, because UI plays one of the major roles in combat awareness in any game. And since addons modifiy UI they modify the combat. And since UI is fully within control of the dev team, any change to UI API effectively changes the balance of the game.

This is not a hard subject. Just stop denying it.

DDuke wrote: »

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.

The fact that eso dev team decided not to allocate the necessary resources to make addons available on the consoles, has nothing to do with the desirability of addons on the console. This discontinuity between console UI and PC UI is fully on the dev team.

DDuke wrote: »

So no, you are quite simply wrong.

So, unfortunately for you, i'm totally correct here.

Please properly educate yourself before trying to reply to me.

Thank you.

Really, all I hear in this whole thing is " me me me ". Not taking a large portion of the playerbase into account. And considering every poll that has come out has been largely in favor of getting rid of these cancerous add ons, you sayng it is beneficial to the majority of the playbase is just flat wrong.

That´s 100% the same for the people that want the addon removed.

It´s also 'me me me' because it impairs their build.

Then you probably have the largest portion of the playerbase (like myself) that don´t really care either way. I use the addon because I personally think it´s deemed fine by zos (even if it´s only due to the lack of action taken against it) and it does offer improved gameplay for me solely by having a soundcue i can hear better than the ingame ones.
I probably would not care if that functionality was removed - i´d still use other parts of the addon because the functionality provided apart from the attack notification is absolutely awesome and should really be part of the base game.

Ask in zone, the addon is considered cancer across the board. You can also ask on their FB page, reddit page, twitter page, and the response is a resounding "this addon is cancer".

A person who is unhappy about something is much more likely to be vocal about it - so you get an overwhelmingly negative feedback because the persons that are content with how things are with miats will probably not bother to post in the first place - also due to the animosity or downright hostility and insults they would have to face for their opinion.
It´s in human nature to interpret information in a way it favor their personal pov.

Ultimately it´s on ZOS to give a definitive stance on this addon and they´re the only instance that can resolve the issue.
Sadly having almost a year of inaction makes it look like there is simply no need for them to take action in the current state of affairs.
Compare it to proccsets - something that got equally negative feedback on the forums as miats did/does and has been around about a month longer.
It also had only implications on pvp encounters. Proccsets got adjusted multiple times by now due to this pvp specific feedback.

Edit: On top of that - IF someone at ZOS had decided the addon was fine as is. Would you dare posting that on the forums given the responses to expected? I wouldn´t probably.

If they flat out came out and said they think it is ok, I would drop the game in a heartbeat. And I am sure I am not alone.

Jade1986

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

@Dorrino alright then bud, I've said everything I had to say, if you'd like to give yourself a few runs with me any time, go on PTS I'll be spending some time there nowadays, so add me when you're around @LegendaryMage and we'll have some fun.

@Derra I've reviewed the functions of the add-on carefully, both on text and in practice (not on my machine though, but on another), and as I said there is good stuff in it, and even stuff that should be a part of the game officially.

But the functions that I don't like (even in its current form) are just too much for me to even consider installing it, let alone previous versions with even more questionable functionality.

With that being said, I personally never used combat add-ons in ESO, I feel like they're not helping me at all in most of situations, but this one really messes up my archer setup, I'm tired of players dodging like pros before they even have a clue what's going on.

That my friend, should not be possible at all.

I would go as far as to say, that ANY 3rd party additional notifications for incoming attacks shouldn't be possible at all - and if I'm wrong, do correct me, but I don't see anything remotely possible within the game's native UI. And for a reason.

In fact, even the auto-music-play when combat starts should be looked into in my opinion.

If they want combat to be better and different than most other stale MMOs out there, then it should not work like most other MMOs out there that depend on auto attacks, notifications gallore and so on. But that's just me.

It's not just you. All three of my pvp guilds say the same thing. And we have discussed this in length. All three have between 150-400 active players. The general consensus is the addon would be fine if it werent for the cheat timers. You would literally see the toxicity over the add on disappear over night if these types of things were not allowed in the game. ZoS wouldnt even have to edit the API, they could make it clear that such things are not allowed through the TOS.

DDuke

It's not just the forums, Cyrodiil & most of the player base that hates the API functions, here's a reddit post from 7 months ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5yqw9k/miats_pvp_alerts_is_back_and_its_just_a_cheaty_as/

Look at the comments.. lol.

Mind-boggling how this is still allowed.

Granted, ZOS isn't known for fixing things quickly... but it's been over half a year and this is much, much more harmful to the game than things like Sharpened Maces or Double Mundus exploits were back in the days (which also took a long time to fix).

Murador178

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

I'm still winning some fights on medium, but why even bother.... But from watching the NA tournament, that Kodi organized, I'd say NA players are doing duels right. They fight in normal openworld builds. So still most (if not all) would have no chance against one of the EU duel builds. I wish we would go back to fighting with normal builds....

LegendaryMage

Murador178 wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

I'm still winning some fights on medium, but why even bother.... But from watching the NA tournament, that Kodi organized, I'd say NA players are doing duels right. They fight in normal openworld builds. So still most (if not all) would have no chance against one of the EU duel builds. I wish we would go back to fighting with normal builds....

It's not happening bud, the only thing that can save the dueling world in ESO is if armors and abilities are better balanced. Until then, it will be a mess as it has been for the last year or so.

The funny thing is, they just need to edit a few sets and values here and there and this game would be 500% more balanced than it is now. And not just for dueling, but for bigger fights too. I for one, will be happy to see the heavy meta toned down for starters.

laced wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

@Dorrino alright then bud, I've said everything I had to say, if you'd like to give yourself a few runs with me any time, go on PTS I'll be spending some time there nowadays, so add me when you're around @LegendaryMage and we'll have some fun.

@Derra I've reviewed the functions of the add-on carefully, both on text and in practice (not on my machine though, but on another), and as I said there is good stuff in it, and even stuff that should be a part of the game officially.

But the functions that I don't like (even in its current form) are just too much for me to even consider installing it, let alone previous versions with even more questionable functionality.

With that being said, I personally never used combat add-ons in ESO, I feel like they're not helping me at all in most of situations, but this one really messes up my archer setup, I'm tired of players dodging like pros before they even have a clue what's going on.

That my friend, should not be possible at all.

I would go as far as to say, that ANY 3rd party additional notifications for incoming attacks shouldn't be possible at all - and if I'm wrong, do correct me, but I don't see anything remotely possible within the game's native UI. And for a reason.

In fact, even the auto-music-play when combat starts should be looked into in my opinion.

If they want combat to be better and different than most other stale MMOs out there, then it should not work like most other MMOs out there that depend on auto attacks, notifications gallore and so on. But that's just me.

It's not just you. All three of my pvp guilds say the same thing. And we have discussed this in length. All three have between 150-400 active players. The general consensus is the addon would be fine if it werent for the cheat timers. You would literally see the toxicity over the add on disappear over night if these types of things were not allowed in the game. ZoS wouldnt even have to edit the API, they could make it clear that such things are not allowed through the TOS.

Yep, same here. I've been running a 200, 300, 400, 500 member guild for over 2 years now (I'm reducing it in size nowadays because I feel like 500 people is way too much) and I am 99% confident that most of my guild members feel the same.

Publius_Scipio

Murador178 wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

I'm still winning some fights on medium, but why even bother.... But from watching the NA tournament, that Kodi organized, I'd say NA players are doing duels right. They fight in normal openworld builds. So still most (if not all) would have no chance against one of the EU duel builds. I wish we would go back to fighting with normal builds....

We will see if the coming armor skill line changes will get the ball rolling on balancing the armor weight choices out more.

Nifty2g

See that ZOS replied to this thread only to see that it is deleted posts.

Let down

Zer0oo

Best popcorn thread since a long time.

The pvp forum is so dead since they made pvp with every update more and more unplayable.

Jade1986

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

I'm still winning some fights on medium, but why even bother.... But from watching the NA tournament, that Kodi organized, I'd say NA players are doing duels right. They fight in normal openworld builds. So still most (if not all) would have no chance against one of the EU duel builds. I wish we would go back to fighting with normal builds....

We will see if the coming armor skill line changes will get the ball rolling on balancing the armor weight choices out more.

I honestly dont think so, i mean, it all went downhill when they turned HA into a pvp dps armor instead of the tank armor it is supposed to be.

Jade1986

Zer0oo wrote: »

Best popcorn thread since a long time.

The pvp forum is so dead since they made pvp with every update more and more unplayable.

Thats another problem, you couple the awful ability delay with this add on, and it makes it downright impossible for us to hit anything!

DDuke

laced wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

I'm still winning some fights on medium, but why even bother.... But from watching the NA tournament, that Kodi organized, I'd say NA players are doing duels right. They fight in normal openworld builds. So still most (if not all) would have no chance against one of the EU duel builds. I wish we would go back to fighting with normal builds....

We will see if the coming armor skill line changes will get the ball rolling on balancing the armor weight choices out more.

I honestly dont think so, i mean, it all went downhill when they turned HA into a pvp dps armor instead of the tank armor it is supposed to be.

Well, I have a pretty clear (but different) opinion of that:

I think Heavy Armor dealing a lot of damage (even as much as medium) is fine. It allows players to play the "warrior" archetype present in other MMORPGs.

The only problem is that the "warrior" archetype is currently much, much more viable than the medium armor wearing "rogue" one.
Should the heavy armor user mitigate more damage? Yeah. Deal equal damage? Yeah. Survive better in general? No.


Medium needs its own way of surviving that isn't mitigation (like heavy armor), that's all imo - we'll see how the Shuffle change affects that.

That said, while we're talking of archetypes there's one pretty big one that's completely unplayable: "archer" - and it never will be playable & enjoyable on PC PvP until the API is fixed and I think this is a pretty important point to bring forth.


I mean, just as no one should be able to tell us "you shouldn't play an archer because I don't like it" (let alone create an addon & make that scenario a reality) we shouldn't say "you shouldn't play a warrior because I don't like it", or demand changes that'd make it an impossibility.

Dredlord

Dorrino wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

I chose to disable it, to reduce saltiness of dueling people:) Less things to blame for losing.

You can bet bank he didn't disable it in his personal version...

You wouldn't?:)

I dont use your addon, so no.

LegendaryMage

DDuke wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Hey man, I tell things the way they are.

Nonono, it's my job to 'tell things the way you are'! Impostor!:D

LegendaryMage wrote: »

If you don't like it, get over it. I'm not gonna be quiet while players like you are messing up the game for so many other players because ZOS (as usually) didn't do things right.

Too bad you making it a fight.

You will lose it though. Both here and ingame.

I wouldn't if i were you:)

LegendaryMage wrote: »

As for you being best at anything, whatever man - heard that crap way too many times from way too many players over the years.

That's what people tell about me. I told you this to make a proper context and get rid of old and boring 'you did it because you suck'.

Btw, Scipio should start apologizing soon:) We're done.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

When I hear anyone blowing their own horn on about how they're 'the best at something' I know immediately they're 2 minutes away from eating dirt. So do yourself a favor and become best at being a bit more humble.

Well, you've started blowing this horn for me, i just corrected the direction:) And people knowing a thing about being humble don't start a conversation with 'you suck and what you do suck as well'. Instead they are more, hm, humble?:)

All I'm telling you is, I've got tells and whispers of so many players claiming to be 'the best' at whatever and so far not one has proven that they're (at most) slightly above average.

Now, if that's the case, why should you be any different? If you want a challenge, come to PC EU Alikr where I've set up duels that are going on almost 24/7 and see for yourself just how 'best' you are at anything, including dueling.

I don't think, I guarantee you, you will be in for a surprise. I fought plenty of NA players over the years and infinitely more EU ones and I can tell you from first hand experience, that the metas are different on the servers and you will absolutely, under no circumstance, even have a chance with a medium build against anyone who's been dueling for awhile now. Not stamblade, not dk, not stamplar, not stamden, not whatever, you will need to up your game a lot more to take down some of the builds that lurk around there.

That's not to say you're not a good player, it's to say that there's so much more that you haven't even experienced and to assume that you're 'the best at anything' is not doing yourself a favor at all.

There's your challenge if you're bored.

As for me, I'll be there (PC EU Alikr) too. I barely play ESO nowadays but I'm always up for a fight so it will be my pleasure to show you around.

@Ragnaroek93 medium armor stamblade, what's the prediction in this current meta? I'd say almost no chance against anyone competent in light/heavy. What say you.

Now enough of this ego talk, we're here to talk about questionable ZOS in-game policies and what should and shouldn't be allowed.

As for me, I might come off as blunt and too direct sometimes but time is limited and I got no time to sugar coat anything I don't like. I don't like some of the features of your add-on and I hope that ZOS will eliminate it altogether over time. I also understand that you've invested time and effort into creating something that you like, but as always - there are certain things you've got wrong and if you don't want to eliminate them, someone else will have to.

I'm still winning some fights on medium, but why even bother.... But from watching the NA tournament, that Kodi organized, I'd say NA players are doing duels right. They fight in normal openworld builds. So still most (if not all) would have no chance against one of the EU duel builds. I wish we would go back to fighting with normal builds....

We will see if the coming armor skill line changes will get the ball rolling on balancing the armor weight choices out more.

I honestly dont think so, i mean, it all went downhill when they turned HA into a pvp dps armor instead of the tank armor it is supposed to be.

Well, I have a pretty clear (but different) opinion of that:

I think Heavy Armor dealing a lot of damage (even as much as medium) is fine. It allows players to play the "warrior" archetype present in other MMORPGs.

The only problem is that the "warrior" archetype is currently much, much more viable than the medium armor wearing "rogue" one.
Should the heavy armor user mitigate more damage? Yeah. Deal equal damage? Yeah. Survive better in general? No.


Medium needs its own way of surviving that isn't mitigation (like heavy armor), that's all imo - we'll see how the Shuffle change affects that.

That said, while we're talking of archetypes there's one pretty big one that's completely unplayable: "archer" - and it never will be playable & enjoyable on PC PvP until the API is fixed and I think this is a pretty important point to bring forth.


I mean, just as no one should be able to tell us "you shouldn't play an archer because I don't like it" (let alone create an addon & make that scenario a reality) we shouldn't say "you shouldn't play a warrior because I don't like it", or demand changes that'd make it an impossibility.

Yeah but it's not just the archer build(s) that are affected now, it's anyone being in the right situation trying to do 'something' while the other player has a heads-up add-on info displayed on their screen, knowing that something is coming to them even if the other person should be in an advantageous position (ex, trying to frag someone from behind, or any other ranged channeled ability for that matter).

This is my biggest critique for ZOS's API, it should not be feeding this type of info in PVP at least.

edit; I've been chasing around players who use this add-on and it's incredible how much PVP advantage they have with it, knowing exactly when to dodge or block to negate your hard hitters. This is not something an add-on should help with.

Besides, I still got those 'tutorials' enabled and I never see any of that stuff telling me to block and dodge, I don't even know what it does tbh.

Feanor

Everyone one loses to is a cheater/exploiter/hacker anyway. That way everyone feels better.

The discussion is hilarious. ESO is not a competitive game. Not by a lightyear.

Ackwalan

Just imagine what add-on is out there that are not public. It's the bear you don't that you need to worry about.

Jade1986

Feanor wrote: »

Everyone one loses to is a cheater/exploiter/hacker anyway. That way everyone feels better.

The discussion is hilarious. ESO is not a competitive game. Not by a lightyear.

There is a reason for that....

It is actually much more competitive on console.

Feanor

laced wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Everyone one loses to is a cheater/exploiter/hacker anyway. That way everyone feels better.

The discussion is hilarious. ESO is not a competitive game. Not by a lightyear.

There is a reason for that....

It is actually much more competitive on console.

Yeah the reason is that outside 1v1 you can't talk about actual skill anyway just because the combat system is what it is. It had nothing to do with addons or anything. The game is not designed to be competitive, because it's main target audience is casuals.

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Everyone one loses to is a cheater/exploiter/hacker anyway. That way everyone feels better.

The discussion is hilarious. ESO is not a competitive game. Not by a lightyear.

There is a reason for that....

It is actually much more competitive on console.

Yeah the reason is that outside 1v1 you can't talk about actual skill anyway just because the combat system is what it is. It had nothing to do with addons or anything. The game is not designed to be competitive, because it's main target audience is casuals.

In other news: water is wet.

I don't know how the game's competitiveness relates to the discussion at hand, but what I can tell you is that the less competitive it gets, the less twitch streamers & youtubers (and views on both platforms) this game has.
You can actually see this trend if you look at recent videos, or browse twitch to find ESO.

That's never good for a game, no matter who you design it for.

Joy_Division

Feanor wrote: »

Everyone one loses to is a cheater/exploiter/hacker anyway. That way everyone feels better.

The discussion is hilarious. ESO is not a competitive game. Not by a lightyear.

I don't think it ever was meant to be competitive or hardcore. That doesn't mean it can't be fun.

Feeling pressured to use an add-on that tells your opponent to get out of the way of an attack they can't see is not the way to go IMHO, but that's probably Matt Frior's call.

KingMagaw

Any chance of ZoS replying on this thread or they just waiting until everyone quits:

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror - At least show the minimum interest in your game.

Dredlord

Feanor wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Everyone one loses to is a cheater/exploiter/hacker anyway. That way everyone feels better.

The discussion is hilarious. ESO is not a competitive game. Not by a lightyear.

There is a reason for that....

It is actually much more competitive on console.

Yeah the reason is that outside 1v1 you can't talk about actual skill anyway just because the combat system is what it is. It had nothing to do with addons or anything. The game is not designed to be competitive, because it's main target audience is casuals.

Another excellent cop out. You can actually see him rationalizing it word by word.

not competitive must mean it's ok to cheat....amirite?

Jade1986

Feanor wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Everyone one loses to is a cheater/exploiter/hacker anyway. That way everyone feels better.

The discussion is hilarious. ESO is not a competitive game. Not by a lightyear.

There is a reason for that....

It is actually much more competitive on console.

Yeah the reason is that outside 1v1 you can't talk about actual skill anyway just because the combat system is what it is. It had nothing to do with addons or anything. The game is not designed to be competitive, because it's main target audience is casuals.

But it does have something to do with add ons. If there were no add ons and it were a level playing field it would be a lot more, or at least could be competitive. As is now, there would have to be a round table meeting on which add ons would be allowed, and then there would have to be someone to monitor all add ons being used somehow by everyone.

This is off topic though, but I have to add that ZoS stated at beta that add ons that would give another player a palpable combat advantage, that would put players that do not use the add on at a disadvantage, would not be allowed. Yet that clearly was ignored to the umpteenth deggree.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove a few posts for becoming far too heated. Keep in mind that flaming is against the Forum Rules, as it never leads anywhere good for a thread. We understand there will be several points in this topic that many will not agree on, but we ask that you stay constructive and respectful when arguing these points.

Thank you for understanding.

Dredlord

KingMagaw wrote: »

Any chance of ZoS replying on this thread or they just waiting until everyone quits:

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror - At least show the minimum interest in your game.

and to be absolutely crystal clear (sans heat) @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror

The reason the API needs changes in PVP is so it does not provide the information that can be used by an addon, script or third party program to block, dodge, invis, heal, shield, break free based on preset resource thresholds and the type of attack incoming, all automatically.

kyle.wilson

Dredlord wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

Any chance of ZoS replying on this thread or they just waiting until everyone quits:

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror - At least show the minimum interest in your game.

and to be absolutely crystal clear (sans heat) @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror

The reason the API needs changes in PVP is so it does not provide the information that can be used by an addon, script or third party program to block, dodge, invis, heal, shield, break free based on preset resource thresholds and the type of attack incoming, all automatically.

Message them directly, I think the only people reading these posts are the mods.
Then again, Matt Firor cannot even be bothered to check on his forum.

Dorrino

Ok, since some people were quite persistent at claiming that most people run the addon and in the result snipe became non-viable as a main spam ability (i.e. hit chance is abysmally low) i decided to make an experiment.

I slotted snipe and used it almost exclusively as a main damage spammable.

Conditions:

1. I didn't snipe from cloak/invisibility to obtain the lowest value on snipe hit percentage (i'm always visible).
2. I counted unblocked and undodged hits, i.e. hits that target didn't react to even if he got the notification.
3. Blocked, dodged, cloaked and otherwise missed snipe casts were considered a miss.
4. I didn't stick to a particular location and to particular set of players.
5. The test lasted about 3 hours.

Results:

Total number of snipes - 1015.
Total number of hits - 713.
Hit percentage - 70.24%

Given that snipe tooltip (bow bar) is about 38% higher than surprise attack (2h gs bar), the 70% hit chance makes it a noticeably more effective spammable damage-wise along with almost perfect safety of the player at snipes max range.

The only weak place of snipe that found is that its channel is interruptible. Otherwise it would be a great alternative to dizzying swing even at melee distance.

Generally i enjoyed this experience, even though in its current state snipe has limited viability in 1v1 situations (mostly because how easy it is to interrupt it).

LegendaryMage wrote: »

@Dorrino alright then bud, I've said everything I had to say, if you'd like to give yourself a few runs with me any time, go on PTS I'll be spending some time there nowadays, so add me when you're around @LegendaryMage and we'll have some fun.

Since you refuse to conduct a conversation until i demonstrate you your lack of pvp skills, i'd indulge you after a proper apology on the forums for you offensive attitude towards me.

Rohamad_Ali

Dorrino wrote: »

Ok, since some people were quite persistent at claiming that most people run the addon and in the result snipe became non-viable as a main spam ability (i.e. hit chance is abysmally low) i decided to make an experiment.

I slotted snipe and used it almost exclusively as a main damage spammable.

Conditions:

1. I didn't snipe from cloak/invisibility to obtain the lowest value on snipe hit percentage (i'm always visible).
2. I counted unblocked and undodged hits, i.e. hits that target didn't react to even if he got the notification.
3. Blocked, dodged, cloaked and otherwise missed snipe casts were considered a miss.
4. I didn't stick to a particular location and to particular set of players.
5. The test lasted about 3 hours.

Results:

Total number of snipes - 1015.
Total number of hits - 713.
Hit percentage - 70.24%

Given that snipe tooltip (bow bar) is about 38% higher than surprise attack (2h gs bar), the 70% hit chance makes it a noticeably more effective spammable damage-wise along with almost perfect safety of the player at snipes max range.

The only weak place of snipe that found is that its channel is interruptible. Otherwise it would be a great alternative to dizzying swing even at melee distance.

Generally i enjoyed this experience, even though in its current state snipe has limited viability in 1v1 situations (mostly because how easy it is to interrupt it).

LegendaryMage wrote: »

@Dorrino alright then bud, I've said everything I had to say, if you'd like to give yourself a few runs with me any time, go on PTS I'll be spending some time there nowadays, so add me when you're around @LegendaryMage and we'll have some fun.

Since you refuse to conduct a conversation until i demonstrate you your lack of pvp skills, i'd indulge you after a proper apology on the forums for you offensive attitude towards me.

Interesting results . Were all these snipe attacks done on different players or are they a combination different targets but some on the same target or even a lot on the same targets ? Just curious as to how uncontrolled the test results are .

I just had another thought . Don't you have access to the number of people that run your addon or just the amount of people that downloaded it ? If we knew those numbers while testing snipe on different targets then we would learn not just how many people running the addon but also how many running the feature that tells when to dodge . Those results would then show a small section of the effects of the addon against players using snipe .