Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!

UnseenTruth · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

some toxic individual

like you? because its the only one who is toxic in this topic

also read this:
http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

ZOS stuff in that topic clearly said that they made that changes, they considered them and etc etc, it was not just oversight, your assumption about they are lazy or missed all other channelled skills except heavy attack is wrong

DDuke · October 2017

Dorrino wrote: »

@DDuke

I'm genuinely curious, do you expect personal insults and invalidation other people participating in your thread to be a supportive point towards your agenda?:)

Do you expect the readers to think 'oh, that guy is so strong, because he makes personal attacks against some other guy, that makes his point valid'?

I'm participating in this thread partially to help with misconceptions and partially to add more pages to it to help you get heard.

But let's see how 'evil Miat' approach is going to help you:P It didn't help other people in all previous threads. Maybe they didn't express their disgust with me personally strong enough:)

Any hopes of even trying to have a constructive conversation with you evaporated after this spectacular load of [snip]:

Dorrino wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Situational awareness, positioning and paying attention are part of player skill. The addon takes away that. Again, its that simple.

Mistakes not getting punished is the reason why PVP is so bad. You can correct your mistakes. You made a mistake and you took the hit, cc or whatever but you are still alive. You react and get urself back in the fight. Thats also player skill and thats how you correct mistakes. Not by an addon telling you the mistake you did so you can react as if it never happened.

And i would insist that if an addon correct mistakes on the verge of human perception we need more and better addons like this, because there're some limits to perception you can't overcome.

It stops being 'ill use an addon instead of learning' and instead becomes 'i'll use an addon to perceive something i wouldn't be able to perceive otherwise due to limitations of the default ui'.

It's not about being bad. It's about being better.

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Cool, can you make me an addon that allows me to see behind walls? I'd like to enhance my perception.

If ZOS decided to provide this option i'd definitely would write an addon for that.

You're someone who doesn't see/care how your little creation affects other people and consequently this game's health when those people keep moving on to other games.

You'll be cheating alone soon enough if the API doesn't get reined in.

[Edit for profanity]

DDuke · October 2017

UnseenTruth wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

some toxic individual

like you? because its the only one who is toxic in this topic

also read this:
http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

ZOS stuff in that topic clearly said that they made that changes, they considered them and etc etc, it was not just oversight, your assumption about they are lazy or missed all other channelled skills except heavy attack is wrong

From the very same thread:

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg

I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

anything
ˈɛnɪθɪŋ/Submit
pronoun
used to refer to a thing, no matter what.

So I've been right all along, their intent was to remove all notifications for invisible hostile players.

This is obviously not what happened after the "fix" as only heavy attacks don't get notifications and needs to be addressed immediately.

Storymaster · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!

No, you restrict your API!!!

PS4_ZeColmeia · October 2017

This is honestly why I love console, none of this is an issue. I hate that it takes soooo long for QoL that PC gets via addons to get turned into actual game UI, but definitely a price I will gladly pay to avoid these type of issues.

IMHO, these addons along with the possible scripts that make you do a dodge roll to perfectly escape a meteor, or an addon that automatically perfectly weaves for you, or this that would show you the timer is really only fair if it is part of the standard UI of the game. Then again, you're on PC and by signing up for add-ons by playing on PC you also signed up to ride the game meta as well as the addon meta.

@zos Please never give addons to console.

Dorrino · October 2017

So our dear topic-starter straight up refuses to conduct a polite and constructive discussion even when his behavior was explained to him.

While as a separate case this is quite unfortunate and embarrassing, i have to point out, that for some reason this lack of decency towards other people is a common feature of people creating passionate topics against this particular feature of ZOS API.

I think the best that can be done is to report the most offensive posts and wish the topic-starter the best of luck in all his endeavors:)

DDuke · October 2017

Dorrino wrote: »

So our dear topic-starter straight up refuses to conduct a polite and constructive discussion even when his behavior was explained to him.

While as a separate case this is quite unfortunate and embarrassing, i have to point out, that for some reason this lack of decency towards other people is a common feature of people creating passionate topics against this particular feature of ZOS API.

I think the best that can be done is to report the most offensive posts and wish the topic-starter the best of luck in all his endeavors:)

One of those moments you wish there was still a LOL button on the forums.

Yes, people get angry when others try to defend cheating. Are you really surprised?

Are you that tilted your lies were exposed?

Dorrino wrote:

Besides already mentioned, in the result of the review they stopped providing EVENT_COMBAT_EVENT for stealthed heavy attacks channel start, but left all other abilities channel starts intact.

If that is not an indication of what should and shouldn't be in the game, i'm not sure what is:)

Dorrino wrote:

I'm participating in this thread partially to help with misconceptions

No, you're here to spread them - trying to convince people to leave your addon alone because these API functions have some kind of a "ZOS Stamp of Approval", one which they don't have:

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

I bet you didn't even report that half the functions were still working after they administered the "fix".

Most of the people in the game want ZOS to do their job & these API functions gone: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Dorrino · October 2017

And now i was 'exposed':D

All these months of lies and evil plans took one brave man to bring to light. The monster writhes in agony, while the hero in shiny armor relentlessly finishes the job. The monster in its last, but futile effort raises its bleeding ugly head to say its obligatory 'you..have..b..bested meee...' and explodes in a rain of bristling exp particles that the hero hastily collects.

The worldview of children is indeed remarkable:)

KingMagaw · October 2017

Without any input from ZOS this was bound to devolve but i must state again that nobody can argue against:

Additional to this adding in a separate addon, that was private and functioning even worse before ZoS looked at the API, isnt available to all - How many new players to PvP start with this information and/or Miatts addon, which clearly gives the advantage to people already using it and how many newer players think people must be cheating to suddenly jump off the horse in the middle of field and roll dodge buff up when targeted.

It is truly a disgrace i feel that this happens above. In my eyes it is mainly scrubs who want to have an advantage over others via an addon rather than using the many skills/items in game to combat stealth.

@Dorrino - You are as much to blame for this thread descending by continually agonising people who post here. View your last 2 posts and they have been personal, it suits you to degrade this topic so your addon continues in the state it is now rather than being addressed by ZoS

Jade1986 · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

UnseenTruth wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

some toxic individual

like you? because its the only one who is toxic in this topic

also read this:
http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

ZOS stuff in that topic clearly said that they made that changes, they considered them and etc etc, it was not just oversight, your assumption about they are lazy or missed all other channelled skills except heavy attack is wrong

From the very same thread:

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg

I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

anything
ˈɛnɪθɪŋ/Submit
pronoun
used to refer to a thing, no matter what.

So I've been right all along, their intent was to remove all notifications for invisible hostile players.

This is obviously not what happened after the "fix" as only heavy attacks don't get notifications and needs to be addressed immediately.

Youll never get through to these people, they want the path of least resistance no matter the cost to other players.

Feanor · October 2017

laced wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

UnseenTruth wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

some toxic individual

like you? because its the only one who is toxic in this topic

also read this:
http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

ZOS stuff in that topic clearly said that they made that changes, they considered them and etc etc, it was not just oversight, your assumption about they are lazy or missed all other channelled skills except heavy attack is wrong

From the very same thread:

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg

I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

anything
ˈɛnɪθɪŋ/Submit
pronoun
used to refer to a thing, no matter what.

So I've been right all along, their intent was to remove all notifications for invisible hostile players.

This is obviously not what happened after the "fix" as only heavy attacks don't get notifications and needs to be addressed immediately.

Youll never get through to these people, they want the path of least resistance no matter the cost to other players.

Oh. The path of least resistance. And I thought you meant abusing stealth with that. My bad.

ZOS_MattL · October 2017

Hey there,
We have removed several posts as they were off topic or argumentative. In the future when making a post be sure to do so in a constructive and polite manner.
Thanks,
Matt

Dredlord · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

i wasnt talking about lining up burst by skills, that have different cast times and times to land. i am well aware of that. i was talking about getting 5 snipes from one person all together in a split of a second.

...And that would be an urban legend.

Anything else you want to add to the topic?

That is hp desync happens quite often for snipes.

Health desync happens with a lot of skills (I think it has to do with Major Defile) - but that's not what he wrote, he wrote about "getting hit by 5 snipes in a split of a second from one person", which is impossible given that there's a 1,1s cast time.

Why are you so *** clueless?

Lettigall · October 2017

ZOS_MattL wrote: »

Hey there,
We have removed several posts as they were off topic or argumentative. In the future when making a post be sure to do so in a constructive and polite manner.
Thanks,
Matt

You troll

And I thought that devs finally noticed this thread!

Jade1986 · October 2017

Lettigall wrote: »

ZOS_MattL wrote: »

Hey there,
We have removed several posts as they were off topic or argumentative. In the future when making a post be sure to do so in a constructive and polite manner.
Thanks,
Matt

You troll And I thought that devs finally noticed this thread!

Fat chance.

Dorrino · October 2017

KingMagaw wrote: »

@Dorrino - You are as much to blame for this thread descending by continually agonising people who post here. View your last 2 posts and they have been personal, it suits you to degrade this topic so your addon continues in the state it is now rather than being addressed by ZoS

Since, as i can see a mild-to-semistrong offensive behavior is accepted on the forums, i'll stop pointing at the language and general hostility here:)

On the subject.

I disagree with the theme of this thread generally and you personal stance on the subject in particular.

No, if you feel strongly that something is cheating, whoever uses it is a *derogatory label snipped* and it should be removed - this feeling of yours does not and can not justify any subsequent action.

Only proper reasoning can serve as grounds for that.

Unless you guys want to cry rivers here and, using the best strategy of each 5-years old, hope that ZOS will change something to your liking.

I expressed my reasoning multiple times at great length in this and at least 3 other topics about the similar subject.

To reiterate:

1. Whatever is provided in the API is desirable and intended part of the game as deemed by game designers.
2. If something is suspected to slip through QA it has to be promptly reported and amended.
3. The whole PVP alerts has been reported to the dev team multiple times since its public release.
4. The attacks notification part of the addon (~5% of addon features) have been examined by the dev team and appropriate actions have been taken. This happened about half a year ago.
5. Since ultimately it's eso dev's choice what has to be a part of the game and its UI, i consider the case closed and remaining part of PVP alerts to be desirable within the design paradigm of eso.
6. Personally i find the whole addon and its parts to be strictly beneficial for the pvp comminuty as a whole and individual players in particular.
7. If the addon makes some aspects of the gameplay harder and some easier, given 5. i understand that as the desired game balance decision of the eso dev team. They have a right to balance the game with the regard and by the means of custom addons in addition to dev team provided UI and given all the above - they execute their right.
8. Whatever i want, like and prefer as a player is fully irrelevant since i have no way to impose any vision of mine on other players if it contradicts dev team vision of the game.
9. 6. is irrelevant due to 8.:)

DDuke · October 2017

Dorrino wrote: »

To reiterate:

1. Whatever is provided in the API is desirable and intended part of the game as deemed by game designers.

Nope.

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg: I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

Dorrino wrote: »

2. If something is suspected to slip through QA it has to be promptly reported and amended.

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

Dorrino wrote: »

3.The whole attacks notification part of the addon (~5% of addon features) have been examined by the dev team and appropriate actions have been taken. This happened about half a year ago.

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

Dorrino wrote: »

4. Since ultimately it's eso dev's choice what has to be a part of the game and its UI, i consider the case closed and remaining part of PVP alerts to be desirable within the design paradigm of eso.

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

ZOS_ChipHilseberg: I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

Dorrino wrote: »

5. Personally i find the whole addon and its parts to be strictly beneficial for the pvp comminuty as a whole and individual players in particular.

Yeah, well, let me just quote you:

Dorrino wrote: »

7. Whatever i want, like and prefer as a player is fully irrelevant since i have no way to impose any vision of mine on other players if it contradicts dev team vision of the game.

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

Well, I'm glad majority of the player base disagree with you: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Dorrino wrote: »

6. If the addon makes some aspects of the gameplay harder and some easier, given 4. (see above) i understand that as the desired game balance decision of the eso dev team. They have a right to balance the game with the regard and by the means of custom addons in addition to dev team provided UI and given all the above - they execute their right.

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.

So no, you are quite simply wrong.

ZOS_ChipHilseberg: I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

DDuke · October 2017

Updated original post with the "new" information from esoui.com.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Updated original post with the "new" information from esoui.com.

Who is zos_Chip ? Is this a conversation taking place outside the forums ?

DDuke · October 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Updated original post with the "new" information from esoui.com.

Who is zos_Chip ? Is this a conversation taking place outside the forums ?

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Dorrino · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Nope.

Yep.

Chip got a question from me, Chip replied to the best of his understanding. Chip is not a game designer and has nothing to do with making choices about it.

His personal understanding was in his reply.

I took it as a guidance and none of the new features of any of my addons exhibited anything along those lines.

Since they didn't take actions on channeled abilities from stealth, i could only assume that Chip reply was general guidance instead of any kind of rule or law.

Lack of both actions and comments on the state of pvpalerts since that time from anybody of the dev team serves as an unambiguous indicator that the whole of pvpalerts fits within eso design paradigm.

DDuke wrote: »

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

I find this feature desirable and thus see no reason for reports. *rolls eyes even harder*

DDuke wrote: »

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

I think they didn't skip anything and instead found the remaining features fitting in their design paradigm.

Multiple reports since that time and lack of any kind of reaction over the course of multiple major patches strongly supports that.

DDuke wrote: »

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Unfortunately for you, majority of player base didn't vote, didn't understand what the addon does and didn't understand what the addon stopped doing after ZOS fixes.

Very similar to you, so no surprise here.

DDuke wrote: »

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

I can effectively play 'bow build' with the presence of the addon. We cannot base our judgements on our limited combat skills and knowledge of the game. Again, unfortunately for you.

"bow builds' take the same niche they always had in eso pvp. xv1/zergvzerg single target hard hitting spammable.

Since you apparently you're not knowledgeable enough on the subject, the only other application of 'bow builds' in pvp was 3-shot gank from invis. This aspect was primarily nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth.

Otherwise it's purely learn to play issue and you should educate yourself.

DDuke wrote: »

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

I'm not sure why you're lacking capabilities to understand that any company that has an open UI API does balance the game with the use of the API in addition to the direct balance changes to the game.

But since you are - that's exactly what happens, because UI plays one of the major roles in combat awareness in any game. And since addons modifiy UI they modify the combat. And since UI is fully within control of the dev team, any change to UI API effectively changes the balance of the game.

This is not a hard subject. Just stop denying it.

DDuke wrote: »

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.

The fact that eso dev team decided not to allocate the necessary resources to make addons available on the consoles, has nothing to do with the desirability of addons on the console. This discontinuity between console UI and PC UI is fully on the dev team.

DDuke wrote: »

So no, you are quite simply wrong.

So, unfortunately for you, i'm totally correct here.

Please properly educate yourself before trying to reply to me.

Thank you.

SodanTok · October 2017

The only fact that matters is that despite 16 pages of this thread, numerous similarly long threads in past 6 months and overall negative view of community towards this issue (including several polls favoring heavily the remove option) there was still no official response that would clearly state that they do not see anything wrong with currently offered features like stealth channel warning, channel warning and attack launch warning. Nor any action made towards balancing the game with existence of these features in mind.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nope.

Yep.

Chip got a question from me, Chip replied to the best of his understanding. Chip is not a game designer and has nothing to do with making choices about it.

His personal understanding was in his reply.

I took it as a guidance and none of the new features of any of my addons exhibited anything along those lines.

Since they didn't take actions on channeled abilities from stealth, i could only assume that Chip reply was general guidance instead of any kind of rule or law.

Lack of both actions and comments on the state of pvpalerts since that time from anybody of the dev team serves as an unambiguous indicator that the whole of pvpalerts fits within eso design paradigm.

DDuke wrote: »

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

I find this feature desirable and thus see no reason for reports. *rolls eyes even harder*

DDuke wrote: »

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

I think they didn't skip anything and instead found the remaining features fitting in their design paradigm.

Multiple reports since that time and lack of any kind of reaction over the course of multiple major patches strongly supports that.

DDuke wrote: »

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Unfortunately for you, majority of player base didn't vote, didn't understand what the addon does and didn't understand what the addon stopped doing after ZOS fixes.

Very similar to you, so no surprise here.

DDuke wrote: »

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

I can effectively play 'bow build' with the presence of the addon. We cannot base our judgements on our limited combat skills and knowledge of the game. Again, unfortunately for you.

"bow builds' take the same niche they always had in eso pvp. xv1/zergvzerg single target hard hitting spammable.

Since you apparently you're not knowledgeable enough on the subject, the only other application of 'bow builds' in pvp was 3-shot gank from invis. This aspect was primarily nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth.

Otherwise it's purely learn to play issue and you should educate yourself.

DDuke wrote: »

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

I'm not sure why you're lacking capabilities to understand that any company that has an open UI API does balance the game with the use of the API in addition to the direct balance changes to the game.

But since you are - that's exactly what happens, because UI plays one of the major roles in combat awareness in any game. And since addons modifiy UI they modify the combat. And since UI is fully within control of the dev team, any change to UI API effectively changes the balance of the game.

This is not a hard subject. Just stop denying it.

DDuke wrote: »

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.

The fact that eso dev team decided not to allocate the necessary resources to make addons available on the consoles, has nothing to do with the desirability of addons on the console. This discontinuity between console UI and PC UI is fully on the dev team.

DDuke wrote: »

So no, you are quite simply wrong.

So, unfortunately for you, i'm totally correct here.

Please properly educate yourself before trying to reply to me.

Thank you.

Really, all I hear in this whole thing is " me me me ". Not taking a large portion of the playerbase into account. And considering every poll that has come out has been largely in favor of getting rid of these cancerous add ons, you sayng it is beneficial to the majority of the playbase is just flat wrong.

DDuke · October 2017

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nope.

Yep.

Chip got a question from me, Chip replied to the best of his understanding. Chip is not a game designer and has nothing to do with making choices about it.

His personal understanding was in his reply.

I took it as a guidance and none of the new features of any of my addons exhibited anything along those lines.

Since they didn't take actions on channeled abilities from stealth, i could only assume that Chip reply was general guidance instead of any kind of rule or law.

Lack of both actions and comments on the state of pvpalerts since that time from anybody of the dev team serves as an unambiguous indicator that the whole of pvpalerts fits within eso design paradigm.

Ohh, so the only actual statement we've had on the topic that doesn't support your point of view is worth nothing, but your assumptions are some kind of a "unambiguous indicator"? Gotcha.

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Yes, as I'm sure you did when all cast time abilities slipped through the "QA" (assuming there even was one) *rolls eyes*

I find this feature desirable and thus see no reason for reports. *rolls eyes even harder*

So you didn't even report what most likely was an oversight/failed fix because you didn't want it gone? Speaks volumes of your character.

...and then you wonder why they stay silent when no one reports it *facepalm*

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

See above what was said about half year ago and then compare it to what happened. I think they skipped the "examination" and "appropriate action" parts.

I think they didn't skip anything and instead found the remaining features fitting in their design paradigm.

Multiple reports since that time and lack of any kind of reaction over the course of multiple major patches strongly supports that.

Do you know how long it took ZOS to fix Sharpened Maces, or even respond to that exploit? Around half a year.

Teleporting into keeps? Even longer.

Silence=/=consent.

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I'm sure you do. Can't say the same about most of the player base: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1

Unfortunately for you, majority of player base didn't vote, didn't understand what the addon does and didn't understand what the addon stopped doing after ZOS fixes.

Very similar to you, so no surprise here.

That's why margin of error exists

337 votes gets you margin of error around 5,3%, meaning 75-85% of people want the API changed.

Ouch.

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What you think is "beneficial" for the pvp community is making playing bow builds & any build using a cast time ability impossible, forcing people solely into playing meta heavy armor melee builds or sorcs. Simply because you don't like stealth.

I can effectively play 'bow build' with the presence of the addon. We cannot base our judgements on our limited combat skills and knowledge of the game. Again, unfortunately for you.

"bow builds' take the same niche they always had in eso pvp. xv1/zergvzerg single target hard hitting spammable.

Wait, you talk about "effectively playing bow build" and then proceed to claim how it should Xv1 & Zerg v Zerg with a hard hitting spammable that everyone and their mothers dodge 99% of time because of your addon?

Is that your idea of "effective"?

Dorrino wrote: »

Since you apparently you're not knowledgeable enough on the subject, the only other application of 'bow builds' in pvp was 3-shot gank from invis. This aspect was primarily nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth.

Otherwise it's purely learn to play issue and you should educate yourself.

Actually I pretty much pioneered that playstyle back in 2014, as you can see on my youtube channel.

If it was nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth, what do you need your cheats for?

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

No sane company would decide to "balance the game by means of custom addons", it is insane to even claim that.

I'm not sure why you're lacking capabilities to understand that any company that has an open UI API does balance the game with the use of the API in addition to the direct balance changes to the game.

But since you are - that's exactly what happens, because UI plays one of the major roles in combat awareness in any game. And since addons modifiy UI they modify the combat. And since UI is fully within control of the dev team, any change to UI API effectively changes the balance of the game.

This is not a hard subject. Just stop denying it.

Sure, by enhancing the UI (nothing wrong with that). Not by providing the equivalents of FPS wallhacks due to an oversight in the game's API.

That'd be like claiming Sharpened Mace exploit was put in by design back in 2015.

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Besides, this game also exists on consoles, where there are no exploitative (or any other kind of) addons to "balance" the game with.

The fact that eso dev team decided not to allocate the necessary resources to make addons available on the consoles, has nothing to do with the desirability of addons on the console. This discontinuity between console UI and PC UI is fully on the dev team.

Funny, all of the console people who have commented here have expressed their thankfulness that addons aren't available there - all due to your addon.

Addons are capable of a lot of good things, it's a shame people start generating negative opinions towards them due to yours.

Dorrino wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So no, you are quite simply wrong.

So, unfortunately for you, i'm totally correct here.

Please properly educate yourself before trying to reply to me.

Thank you.

Where's the LOL button?

Dorrino · October 2017

laced wrote: »

Really, all I hear in this whole thing is " me me me ". Not taking a large portion of the playerbase into account. And considering every poll that has come out has been largely in favor of getting rid of these cancerous add ons, you sayng it is beneficial to the majority of the playbase is just flat wrong.

All i hear from you is even harder 'mememe' along with multiple admissions of low skill level and weak attempts to cover for them using 'it's the majority argument'.

Want me to teach you to stamnb?

Jade1986 · October 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

The only fact that matters is that despite 16 pages of this thread, numerous similarly long threads in past 6 months and overall negative view of community towards this issue (including several polls favoring heavily the remove option) there was still no official response that would clearly state that they do not see anything wrong with currently offered features like stealth channel warning, channel warning and attack launch warning. Nor any action made towards balancing the game with existence of these features in mind.

I doubt we will ever get a response to be honest, the facts are there, the majority on here, reddit, pretty much all social media, and the zone chat in particular in cyro, are all against this add on and add ons like it. But for some reason ZoS chooses to either .

A : Ignore the problem completely

or

B : Are working on it at an incredibly slow pace.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Dorrino wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Really, all I hear in this whole thing is " me me me ". Not taking a large portion of the playerbase into account. And considering every poll that has come out has been largely in favor of getting rid of these cancerous add ons, you sayng it is beneficial to the majority of the playbase is just flat wrong.

All i hear from you is even harder 'mememe' along with multiple admissions of low skill level and weak attempts to cover for them using 'it's the majority argument'.

Want me to teach you to stamnb?

I dont even use nightblades. Yep, nice assumption there. I play a warden bowman.

You hear "mememe", when I am coming out in support of all -in game- play styles? Funny. Skill level has nothing to do with your add on, in fact, it removes skill completely and makes many builds / specs irrelevant.

As for the majority, the poll was shown to you, black and white, but still you think your addon somehow benefits everyone.

I can't even anymore with you. The best of players on Vivec, Kyne, and Sotha Sil EU also find this addon detrimental to the games health, but what do they know? They clearly must have no skill according to you.

Belegnole · October 2017

@Dorrino , Your add on would be considered a cheat in any other game I have played. The fact that it isn't here doesn't speak to your add on, but to the developers not caring.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Belegnole wrote: »

@Dorrino , Your add on would be considered a cheat in any other game I have played. The fact that it isn't here doesn't speak to your add on, but to the developers not caring.

Exactly. This wouldve been flagged by SWTOR devs, WoW devs, any game with stealths devs instantly.

I honestly knew something like this would happen one day, I hoped it wouldn't, but it did. ZoS and Beth are far too leanient when it comes to add ons. People warned about it at the get go, when ZoS said they would not allow add ons of this sort. And now they just shut their eyes, close their ears and hope it goes away it seems.

Dorrino · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Ohh, so the only actual statement we've had on the topic that doesn't support your point of view is worth nothing, but your assumptions are some kind of a "unambiguous indicator"? Gotcha.

It doesn't contradict my point of view.

Want me to teach you reading comprehension?

DDuke wrote: »

So you didn't even report what most likely was an oversight/failed fix because you didn't want it gone? Speaks volumes of your character.

...and then you wonder why they stay silent when no one reports it *facepalm*

It wasn't. I assumed it wasn't and considering where we are now i was correct.

It does speak quite a bit of integrity about my character. You will like it when you learn what it is.

DDuke wrote: »

Do you know how long it took ZOS to fix Sharpened Maces, or even respond to that exploit? Around half a year.

Teleporting into keeps? Even longer.

They didn't fix all cases of telephoning into keeps.

DDuke wrote: »

Silence=/=consent.

Since it's the best that we have, we have to assume that silence == consent and a fix after a year was a change of design approach.

DDuke wrote: »

That's why margin of error exists

337 votes gets you margin of error around 5,3%, meaning 75-85% of people want the API changed.

Ouch.

337 people out of a biased sample.

You need to make sure your sample is representative, before blindly evaluating the results.

I'm telling you, try to educate yourself before making statements.

DDuke wrote: »

Wait, you talk about "effectively playing bow build" and then proceed to claim how it should Xv1 & Zerg v Zerg with a hard hitting spammable that everyone and their mothers dodge 99% of time because of your addon?

They don't, you're wrong and should be ashamed.

DDuke wrote: »

Is that your idea of "effective"?

On the contrary, this is your idea of effective and it 'speaks volumes' about your pvp skill level.

DDuke wrote: »

Actually I pretty much pioneered that playstyle back in 2014, as you can see on my youtube channel.

I've watched a couple of vidoes from your pvp channel. Giving low-to-average level of pvp skills there i'm not even sure what point it's supposed to support.

DDuke wrote: »

If it was nerfed by the nerf of crit damage from stealth, what do you need your cheats for?

I'm not sure why do you project your need for cheats on me.

You benefit from simple notifications from my addon much more than me. If anything you should be thanking me in PMs by now.

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, by enhancing the UI (nothing wrong with that). Not by providing the equivalents of FPS wallhacks due to an oversight in the game's API.

Since the subject has nothing to do with both oversights and wallhacks this sentence of yours keeps demonstrating lack of proper knowledge on your end. And i don't find amusing when people keep embarrassing themselves in public.

DDuke wrote: »

Funny, all of the console people who have commented here have expressed their thankfulness that addons aren't available there - all due to your addon.

Ignorance can't be a basis for a valid opinion. Even in your case it keeps failing.