Eloheynu wrote: »

@helediron

This addon doesn't control trades or anything of the sort. It simply provides tools for use with all the in-game features. Everything regarding gold transfer, Sending COD, Accepting a COD is all managed by the game and what limits the game and the API set. Regarding gold seller scams, I see no scenario or hypothetical situation I'd be worried about here. Furthermore, I do see ways to lock down on trolls which I intend to incorporate in upcoming releases.

Regarding a new ESO forum author, That's why I decided to make everything open source. I understand for some, I may need to build trust, but like any other author that comes with making people happy.

-Elo

"This addon doesn't control trades or anything"

Your server is routing the bids and making them visible to players. The system has full control of who sees what and who don't. You just denied the central part of your system. Really? What is this service then doing apart from controlling trades?

"Regarding gold seller scams, I see no scenario or hypothetical situation I'd be worried about here."

Oh dear, famous last words of an internet developer. Again full denial while there is zero protection visible in code or in design. The service is very close to what gold selling sites are. This denial makes me really think we are dealing with actual scammer or a very naive developer.

"That's why I decided to make everything open source."

Where is the server code? The .exe is rathe simple copier, while the real intelligence is in the server.

@cyx54tc
No TOS is present or needed to be accepted when you use minion to download and run your plugin. Sorry if you think that protects your small enterprise and its private code from anyone else that's interested in making mods for ESO. And again my intention was never to copy your code. I did use general naming conventions, but generally, it's nice when a community standardize things. When new authors want to build addon's it's easy to integrate together.

I'm almost done rewriting everything in the library. Just doing some final testing before I release a new beta version with many optimization already and improvements. The code will be up soon to view open source.

-Elo

While I don't think the Guild Trader system is perfect by any means, the outrageous lengths one person has gone to in this thread to attack dozens of other players and impugn their intentions is the biggest red flag in all of this. Why is one person so enraptured with this subject? I leave it to everyone who has been reading all of this to develop their own opinions on the matter.

WHile the development of new addons is a great thing, and I applaud anyone's enterprise in so doing, there are questions far outside of the code this addon contains that must be addressed. It is clear that the author has no respect for the work of others - taking a fellow developers intellectual property, against the wishes of the original author, and doing what he pleases with it. The addon's author's complete ignorance of what he has agreed to is doubly troubling....

Eloheynu wrote: »

@cyx54tc
No TOS is present or needed to be accepted when you use minion to download and run your plugin. Sorry if you think that protects your small enterprise and its private code from anyone else that's interested in making mods for ESO. And again my intention was never to copy your code.

This is, of course, hilariously and terrifically wrong. All of us (including Elo) have agreed to this: https://minion.gg/?license. I'll note that if TTC defends its IP, Elo's addon should never be listed on Minion or ESOUI, as the addon clearly violates the License Agreement in that Elo has used Minion to "... violate the terms of other applicable end user agreements or the intellectual property rights of third parties."

Of course, Elo's complete ignorance of the rules does make it incredibly simple for anyone to take his work and modify it in a way that helps shut down such a third-party effort at finding a solution to the Guild Trader problem. It would be a very easy for the major trade guilds to roll out a version of this and make it the main trading platform for the game.

tl;dr - one person's crusade on this topic seems fishy, the addon is filled with code stolen from somebody else, and the addon author's own ignorance of why that is bad will lead to the major trade guilds getting even tighter control of the trade system if the addon becomes popular.

Avidspark wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing the devs response to this, seeing as they've made it clear they do not want such a thing as a global auction house in the game...what say you @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_RichLambert ?

I think we need to clarify if they "don't want to see" or "can't be arsed developing one". Two very different things

rootimus wrote: »

PlagueSD wrote: »

No game addon should EVER have an .exe file.

That's a terribly ignorant statement.

You have no idea what you're writing. Not at all.

There is a reason why LUA is okay and other things are forbidden.

LUA: Without bugs / vulnerabilities you are restricted to use what the developers gave you. The API. You do not have access to keystrokes (e.g. login password) or files residing on the file system. You cannot read network traffic and so forth.

EXE: This addon makes use of executables. This bypasses all restrictions that would otherwise in place to protect the users of the addon.

Probably you should open one of those fancy attachments in your spam box if you want to expose yourself to some additional risk.

The comment of PlagueSD is completely correct. If you fail to grasp that, it is probably your lack of knowledge or your own ignorance.

Betheny wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

I'm neutral towards the AH concept, I'll play the market either way. I don't think this is the way for it to be done, though, not if it requires people to trust a third party server to handle the workings. There's too much room for abuse by the host.

It's awkward, but the community has been asking for help on the trading system from ZOS for years now, and they've done nothing to fix it...once again it's been left to the addon authors to find a solution.

At this point maybe we should be asking for changes to the LUA code so this addon wouldn't have to reach an outside server to complete the trading info.

I think I'd be fine with that LUA change. Why are you fine with espousing a security risk to other people in your free time?

I'm not espousing anything, I'm discussing an addon.

See my comment above. You simply have no idea what you're talking about. You are promoting this addon, while it is very risky to run it.

Either the following video matches perfectly to you or you even might have some relations to the author of this addon, as otherwise it would be very difficult to find a reason why you support this addon that much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxjSuQXPAak

Eloheynu wrote: »

Hi all, Allow me to introduce myself as I'm the developer of the Nirn Auction House Addon.
Unfortunately, I had trouble accessing the forum and haven't been able to respond until now.

I've been an ESO player since it was in beta where I helped test the game pre release. During the beta, I asked the developers about the need for an auction house even if the auction functionality was limited because it's what many users expect when they play a game like this. They didn't...

So I decided to create the Nirn AH addon and see how the community reacts and adapts. I'm not trying to take over the guild store system or rain on anybody's parade. I'm only trying to provide an alternate outlet to everything that's available now. My goal is simply to increase the number of buyers that see your items and give tools to help manage those transactions.

As to the malicious software allegations, I've made source code available to review here:
https://github.com/evan-sctg/NirnAuctionHouse-ServerLink

I've also supplied scan results from a popular tool here:
https://www.metadefender.com/#!/results/file/ZTE3MDcyMkgxWmJhc01lVVdTSkdicGp6ZThi/regular/analysis

Check out the addon page for details and upcoming features:
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=1768

Please send me feedback!!! I want to know what you like or dislike.
Let's build a great auction system for the ESO community.

And yet again, you try to dodge all critic.

1) The (stolen) source code means absolutely nothing as the normal user won't have a chance to figure out of the binary has been built from that source code.

2) Providing some links where a binary gets analyzed with a good result doesn't mean anything. It's tricking people without knowledge into believing what you're saying. I've written / modified malware for social engineering campaigns. It is easy to bypass anti virus software if you want to. Therefore, providing such a link is nothing else but ***.

And there are way more fishy things left to clear. And in the end, one would have to trust you (and that looks like a big mistake).

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I am not against this add on IF it's safe and works without people losing money or getting some kind of malicious code or spying account sensitive material . If it's legit great . The concern I've been told is the author releasing the source of the EXE code . Somehow that's a big concern of my friends sharing their thoughts .

Note my comment above regarding the source code. You'd have to review the source code with every update. Furthermore, you would have to ensure the binaries have been built from the source code.

cyx54tc wrote: »

Eloheynu wrote: »

I did, however, use the TTC serializer that Steven Chen wrote. I gave him credit in my addon info page for that part.

I still can't find a single word on your addon page about credits. And also the serializer is NOT the only thing you copied from TTC.

here is a list of your files in Git

Constants.cs (direct copied from TTC, you can even find the commented out PriceTable related lines, file name is the same too)
ESOBidEntry.cs (Original since TTC doesn't have it)
ESOFilledOrderEntry.cs (Original since TTC doesn't have it)
ESOItem.cs (copied from TTC with some modification, file name is the same too)
ESOTradeAsset.cs (copied from TTC with some modification, file name is the same too)
ESOTradeEntry.cs (copied from TTC with some modification, file name is the same too)
ESOTradeInfo.cs (Original since TTC doesn't have it)
HTTPService.cs (direct copied from TTC with no modification)
PostTradeResult.cs (direct copied from TTC with no modification)
RequestResult.cs (direct copied from TTC with no modification)
ServerRegion.cs (direct copied from TTC with no modification)
Util.cs (copied from TTC with just a bit modification, file name is the same too)
WebClientEx.cs (direct copied from TTC with no modification)
Form1.cs (copied from TTC, anything has to do with parsing and uploading are direct copy. You can even find the method for updating TTC's price table in it)

Eloheynu wrote: »

I debated writing my own, but I decided to package the beta up and send a PM to him to see if he approves. Haven't heard back yet

You sent the PM after Phil posted negative feedback on the forum, NOT before or shortly after you package the beta up. To be honest you have plenty of time to ask for permissions during your development but you never done so. beta is never an excuse for cribbing other people's work (and even worse, 0 credit for it).

Nirn auction house is not the first addon that uses TTC's material. But the main difference is, all other authors asked for my permission and I gave permission to all of them. I even told them how to use it and what to watch out for.

Claiming something like this is original doesn't look right to me. And the attitude is what makes me angry.

fishy, isn't it? Btw. even in your case, I do not like this .exe approach.

Eloheynu wrote: »

@cyx54tc
No TOS is present or needed to be accepted when you use minion to download and run your plugin. Sorry if you think that protects your small enterprise and its private code from anyone else that's interested in making mods for ESO. And again my intention was never to copy your code. I did use general naming conventions, but generally, it's nice when a community standardize things. When new authors want to build addon's it's easy to integrate together.

I'm almost done rewriting everything in the library. Just doing some final testing before I release a new beta version with many optimization already and improvements. The code will be up soon to view open source.

-Elo

Well, copying other peoples code without consent is obviously the wrong thing to do. Yet, you give a *** about it and consider it normal behavior. It isn't. All you are actually doing here, is showing that considering you as trustworthy is probably a huge mistake.

Eloheynu wrote: »

@Betheny
I appreciate the thread. Unfortunately, haters will be haters and trolls will be trolls. The internet is full of them... Especially when dealing with building code or an add-on for a game where people with opposing interests try and to distort the truth. All you can do in some instances is a laugh and continue. Haha... Anyways, I just released a new version of the beta. Many optimizations to the overall add-on, all the code is rewritten to be more in line with an MVP. Reduced add-on files and cleaned up any leftover experiments. I appreciate all the help your thread has given addressing concerns. The feedback I received has been plentiful, and I appreciate it. People can just keep PM'ing me directly, and I can track any issues you might encounter.

Patch Notes

- EXE server link Code Improvements and Optimizations
- EXE server link Code New Serializer (better performance and reliability)
- Fixed EU Server Bugs - Sorry EU you should now be able to post auctions
- Server Side Troll Protection Improvements
- Item Quality Colors In Auction Window
- Cleaned up and made a few improvements to the LUA code
- Implemented the first of many patches to recognize non-English clients

Source: https://github.com/evan-sctg/NirnAuctionHouse-ServerLink

-Elo

Well, and i guess the internet is full of people who are copying other peoples code and who are trying to fool other people.

SirDopey wrote: »

Avidspark wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing the devs response to this, seeing as they've made it clear they do not want such a thing as a global auction house in the game...what say you @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_RichLambert ?

I think we need to clarify if they "don't want to see" or "can't be arsed developing one". Two very different things

As their words were "Do not want such a thing", I'll have to go with that...shame you can't be arsed to actually research the subject, but that seems a common issue today....

...especially here.

SirDopey wrote: »

Avidspark wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Avidspark wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing the devs response to this, seeing as they've made it clear they do not want such a thing as a global auction house in the game...what say you @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_RichLambert ?

I think we need to clarify if they "don't want to see" or "can't be arsed developing one". Two very different things

As their words were "Do not want such a thing", I'll have to go with that...shame you can't be arsed to actually research the subject, but that seems a common issue today....

...especially here.

LOL so we're believing everything they say now? Are you new around here?

O no hun, been here since beta, have you?

The devs have very clearly stated this is something they DON'T WANT in the game....but far be it for me to contradict your delusions, have fun with them.

Betheny wrote: »

olivesforge wrote: »

snip garbage and insults snip

tl;dr - one person's crusade on this topic seems fishy

Crusade... omg another person with a deliberate logic block.

I found the addon and wrote about it thinking people might find it useful, that is all.

In fairness to you, I'm inclined to believe your intentions are... let's go with, "honorable."

I don't think you're deliberately trying to push malicious code. Accidentally? Maybe. But, not intentionally.

I also understand that this is something you desperately want to believe. That's fine. Everyone's got to believe in something, right?

The problem is: there's a lot of red flags here. There's a lot of people, in this thread saying, "wait a second, what's going on here?"

And, let's be fair to them, for a second, there is a lot on the line for them. If this is a vector for malicious code, then it could easily lead to compromised accounts, or worse.

This is also a mod that, as it turns out, is heavily plagiarized. Which, I've got to say, is not okay. You see what someone else is doing, you take inspiration, you make your own thing, cool. Really, no, I mean it. But you don't copy what they did. You don't just cut and paste full sections of someone else's mod, and try to pass it off as your own. That's just not okay.

Ask for permission? Sure. That's what I did, when I was working on New Vegas mods. We talked, I got permission to mess around with his meshes, and put out a tweaked version. All of this happened before I posted it to Nexus. Not after.

So, now you're here, defending a mod author who has engaged in a major community faux pas, and on top of that, the software was setting off antivirus warnings left and right, and have been saying, "no, this is fine."

Now, with respect, I understand that you want to believe. That's fine. But a degree of skepticism is called for, as an element of self preservation, if nothing else. It doesn't mean no, it doesn't mean I'm against this. I'm saying, I don't want to put code on my system that I don't trust, and sets off my antivirus.

Betheny wrote: »

Yeah, you do. You want to believe so strongly, you see people going, "wait a second," as ulterior. You want this to be real so badly, you don't stop and consider what this would do. Or what it could do.

Life, @Betheny isn't about looking at something and predicting the consequences. That's useful, but it's not what you need to worry about. It's the secondary, tertiary, and further consequences that you need to consider. Look for the consequences you're not expecting. Ask yourself, "what could go wrong?" Not as a rhetorical statement, before plunging in, but legitimately, what could go wrong with this?

If you really want to sell your stuff to other players, in game, right now, keep one eye on zone chat. No, I know, "the scourge of the earth, source of the four horsemen, and all that," but, seriously, there are somewhere north of 50k potential seller slots in the game right now. The trade guilds are always looking for new people. Some, yeah, some in places like Rawl'Kha and Mournhold are very competitive, and you really need to move a lot of volume to get a spot in them. Others? Places like Stonefalls, or Glenumbra, or Riften, can afford to be pretty lax. If you want in. If you want to sell stuff to other players. That option is open to you. Just keep an eye on zone. Remember, those guilds need a player who actually moves product, more than you need them, because there are always more guilds who need a few more traders to fill out their roster.

And, hey, if you ever find yourself in a trade guild that's asking more per week than you feel is worth it, leave. I've done that, by the way. Because there is always another guild who needs sellers. One that won't screw you.

Betheny wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

I'm neutral towards the AH concept, I'll play the market either way. I don't think this is the way for it to be done, though, not if it requires people to trust a third party server to handle the workings. There's too much room for abuse by the host.

It's awkward, but the community has been asking for help on the trading system from ZOS for years now, and they've done nothing to fix it...once again it's been left to the addon authors to find a solution.

At this point maybe we should be asking for changes to the LUA code so this addon wouldn't have to reach an outside server to complete the trading info.

I think I'd be fine with that LUA change. Why are you fine with espousing a security risk to other people in your free time?

I'm not espousing anything, I'm discussing an addon.

You are the primary proponent of this addon, including the original post, through 8 pages of this thread. You are ignoring all the posts saying this exe file contains a virus.

YES, you ARE espousing its use.

No I'm not, I'm discussing an addon that I happened to stumble across, and the terrible trade system that spawned its need to be created.

I know you're really really into your trade guild system, but for most people it doesn't work for them. Trying to cast aspersions on basically everything that isn't what you want about the trade system won't work here.

And I did not ignore the claims about the .exe - I even edited the title and told people not to install this when people started saying their app returned bad things...then the addon author returned, changed the files and made it 100% okay (no malware appp detects anything in it now and Minion okayed it). You're still in yesterday.

This spyware program is designed to go around a core system that Zenimax has said they will not allow in thier game, since it was discussed during beta. They do not want a global auction house and designed their game to not use one..

The fact that you can edit the exe makes it even more dangerous. That is one way spyware morphs beyond detection by security software, as noted by a poster earlier in the thread.

Look, I don't know how this is going to turn out, but calling a new addon author a maker of spyware is going a bit far don't you think, considering he hasn't done anything yet. So far all he's done is try to make an addon that people would actually love.

You're actively trying to put people off this addon, and slandering the addon author. If I was you I'd start going quiet.

Late to the party, I know, but i think any computer use should know that one should avoid using exe.files from an unknown source. They are not trustworthy. That's quite basic computer security.

The fact that the addon had a questionable exe file makes the whole thing fishy, and it remains fishy, no matter what the author changed/remover AFTER being caught. You try to promote something rather fishy here, Betheny. i hate to put it bluntly, but if you invested the time you use here to promote this thing and complain about the guild traders, to actually join a decent trade guild and farm enough mats to meet their requirements for minimum trade... you might actually get rid of your problem entirely.

Betheny wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I don't want to put code on my system that I don't trust, and sets off my antivirus.

The question you need to ask yourself here is it setting off your antivirus now?

for *** sake. what's wrong with you? I've explained it several times now, that it doesn't matter at all if your *** antivirus triggers an alert or not. Give me 15 minutes and I'll prepare you a well known "malware", which allows full control over your machine and no anti virus engine will trigger an alert. (Besides there is absolutely no reason it triggered an alert with the early versions and now it isn't. This actually makes the whole thing even more suspicious).

The point is "oh, my AV software didn't complain, so everything is fine." is *** and doesn't work when someone directly targets you, which could exactly be the case here. AV software might detect known threads (and by that I'm talking about a specific sample and not a mutation of it), which this most likely isn't.

So for gods sake, just get rid of this stupid argument.


In this case, there are so many red flags it's incredible that people are defending this. The author made every mistake to not be trustworthy.

No response on legit critic, as he most likely hasn't any arguments.

Furthermore, especially in this case, I would like being able to compare the different versions of the files the other uploaded. I think he choose to not archive old versions (other files category on esoui). So the versions that triggered AV alerts aren't even available anymore for further analysis (at least not to my understanding). So it could easily be: "My initial attempt failed, let's try to make a better impression and try later".

Sorry, all of this and how it happened seems really really wrong.

Betheny wrote: »

We how have a global auction house on PC - new addon (just found it on Minion) - Nirn Auction House.

Uses COD to automatically send the items once you win, but instead of having to yell in area chat anyone who also uses this can see your stuff. This is basically a global auction house.

Discuss.

*edit* as per title, if you installed the addon make sure you remove it, some results on scanning the files suggest the addon might be dodgy. +UPDATE file now shows 0 threats.

Waiting for addon author to wake up I guess, seems a lot of effort to go to just to get it taken down like 30 mins later. Watch this thread, if there's any update it'll be posted here.

Okay guys - update, the download has been re-enabled, so until I hear otherwise I'm assuming it's okay to enjoy a global auction house.

Hi - Whats your connection to the author of this addon?
Seems somewhat coincedental that you 'just found it' - When I read your post it seemed more like you were marketing it - would have expected the author to OP a thread about it rather than someone who just found it on minion?

Btw. @Eloheynu , did you really had to write ActionScript code? I mean Flash seriously sucks

Well, there's a reason some functionality is restricted by the LUA interface (privacy / security). What you're doing is bypassing those protections, while making a very untrustworthy figure with your past actions. Even if what you're doing is legit, I can't put any trust in it and personally wouldn't recommend anyone to install the addon.

Edit: btw. why do I believe that two people in this thread have put me on their ignore list?

Eloheynu wrote: »

@InvitationNotFound
Not sure if I understand the Actionscript reference. But you won't find any of that in my code. Haha, It's anybody's choice to install this add-on.

----

Everyone else reading this,
I just released a new update (v0.0.12) should fix a lot of issues people reported. Another round of optimizations and should be stable with all ESO clients now. Made big headway towards the MAC version in this patch. Also added MAC version to the upcoming release list.

Let me know if you encounter any issues with this latest version.

-Elo

Well, I thought it is part of your skill set. Like years ago you were enjoying Flash, didn't you? At least it is what the internet is telling me (besides things like web-design, graphic-design, e-commerce)

I've spent a few minutes getting more information about the author of this addon. Either I'm mostly correct or the identity might have been stolen. But your choice if you want to comment on this. At least from my perspective it is interesting to know more about the author of this addon regarding the author's trustworthiness, you know?

Anyway, just an additional comment, as someone else has pointed out previously. Reviewing the LUA code doesn't make much sense as it will be overwritten at runtime. So at least arbitrary LUA code might be run (if we say we ignore the fact that even arbitrary binaries can be delivered with an update, which is worse), which could be interesting as well (read this as "risky").

Betheny wrote: »

StackonClown wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

We how have a global auction house on PC - new addon (just found it on Minion) - Nirn Auction House.

Uses COD to automatically send the items once you win, but instead of having to yell in area chat anyone who also uses this can see your stuff. This is basically a global auction house.

Discuss.

*edit* as per title, if you installed the addon make sure you remove it, some results on scanning the files suggest the addon might be dodgy. +UPDATE file now shows 0 threats.

Waiting for addon author to wake up I guess, seems a lot of effort to go to just to get it taken down like 30 mins later. Watch this thread, if there's any update it'll be posted here.

Okay guys - update, the download has been re-enabled, so until I hear otherwise I'm assuming it's okay to enjoy a global auction house.

Hi - Whats your connection to the author of this addon?
Seems somewhat coincedental that you 'just found it' - When I read your post it seemed more like you were marketing it - would have expected the author to OP a thread about it rather than someone who just found it on minion?

What do you mean coincidental? I run Minion frequently just to look for new addons (as well as update my zillions of current addons). I love addons. Stop being so paranoid everyone, ffs.

And that's exactly the problem with you. Just because you have no idea what you're talking about everyone is paranoid. You are giving people a really bad advise. Stop being so naiv, ffs, you know...

Seriously, you're promoting an addon, which might be a huge risk for its users and yet you claim everyone in here has no idea what they are talking about while you look like an uneducated fanboy (or friend of the author). Try to argue with facts and knowledge instead of this utter ***. But exactly that might be the issue here, there is no way to deny all those risks except you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about technically. So please keep your nonsense for yourself instead of putting other users at risk. Thank you.