EDIT: In my opinion; If your campaign big bad isn’t remotely end game content, even as an option, then they’re a wasted main villain that are ultimately forgotten about because no one will take them seriously. Period.
The major reason that the idea is to make it repeatable content, is because it is only repeatable content that has any actual challenge.
If it is non-repeatable content, then the devs do not invest any resources into actually making it challenging. Because if the player can only do it once then there is no point in going out of your way to make it a challenge.
And because it is repeatable the Devs attach extra incentive.
Repeatable, Challenging, & some form of Reward are the three key things they use to make an activity garner long-term player engagement.
This is how all content is designed. There is no exception.
Edit: To be clear I am talking about hypothetical rewards that don’t currently exist. The idea does NOT take away any rewards that already come from completing a Main Story Boss
ESO harder story bosses
NOTES:
1. This is NOT about “veteran overland mode“ nor is it saying, in any way whatsoever, that there is a lack of difficult content in the game.
This is purely about how the gameplay of a main story boss impacts the story.
2. This is an old proposal that has gone through drastic review.
Post
Many Endgame Players, including myself, are tired of Story Bosses that are designed for casual players which can be easily dispatched. It’s hard to care about the story when the final antagonist can be beaten in 2 seconds.
It can seriously undercut the story.
We want the Main Antagonists to be memorable experiences that live up the how the stories build them up. We want to look forward to fighting them.
In order to balance this out with new or casual players, this would require the separate veteran instance to have different mechanics.
Because story bosses like the Dragons in Elweyr we’re just pure time gates.
They were seriously extremely anti-climatic.
That issue would not be resolved by “self nerfing“.
Speaking as somebody that was using less than ideal gear & stats, it was still a boring fight - in fact even more so because it just took longer.
Mechanics are what makes or breaks a good boss fight. End of story.
So - only for Main Story Bosses - have two separate instances for them.
- Normal
- Veteran
Up to four people can load into your instance, but you do not require four people to participate.
In either instance, bosses would still be designed to be beaten by a single player, but your friends can still tagalong.
The difference being that boss in veteran mode would have more challenging mechanics than they do in normal mode.
With Mechanics being reviewed here are the story bosses that would be getting a Veteran Mode
Solo Story Dungeons - Full Breakdown
(NOTE: reminder that friends can still tag along but the bosses can still be beaten solo)[/spoiler]SpoilerNEW group activities
PlanemeldSpoilerThe King of worms - Defeat Mannimarco
The God of Schemes - Make your way to Molag Bal and defeat the God of SchemesSpoiler
OrsiniumSpoilerScarp Keep - Stop King Kurog from killing the Orc Clan ChiefsSpoiler
Daedric WarSpoilerThe Clockwork Vault - Defeat Barbas in the Clockwork City to restore VivecSpoiler
Cogitum Centralis - Find the Shadow of Sotha Sil and stop him before the Clockwork city is lost foreverSpoiler
The Crystal Tower - stop Nocturnal before she uses the tower to remake reality.Spoiler
MurkmireSpoilerVakka-Bok Xanmeer - Prevent Kassandra from acquiring the Remnant of ArgonSpoiler
Season of the DragonSpoilerJode's Core - Defend Jode's core and defeat Mulaamnir to save Northern ElsweyrSpoiler
Doomstone Keep - Assist Nahfahlar end his feud with Laatvulon to save Southern ElsweyrSpoiler
Dragonhold - Journey to Dragonhold and Defeat Kaalgrontiid to save TamrielSpoiler
This of course would translate over to main bosses in the “Dark Heart of Skyrim” story arc
Reward
Since this has separate modes and therefore would become a repeatable activity -
It would not hurt to throw in some cosmetic rewards for certain achievements in veteran mode.
They could earn titles, colors, emotes, costumes, pets, mounts, decorations, single signature motif item, etc.
The quality of the item would be dependent on the achievement accomplished.
Overall the point being is that this is a story boss and not a dungeon or trial, also the focus of this post is on the challenge and not monetary reward.
Conclusion
This is the basic idea and I think it works. It would work for both casual and endgame players.
It’d make the story Bosses more exciting for many of us.
And It doesn’t drastically split the player base and there’s something for everyone.
Can we have some context to this post. First off, any boss will become much easier when you fight them enough. Anyone who has played MMORPGs for any length of time knows that. Second, it seems intended that the older dungeons are easier than the current ones.
As stated, OP provides no setting at all in what they are discussing outside of dungeon bosses. Do they say Earthgore and other DLC bosses are too easy, respecting that they will obviously be easier once you have them on-farm? It is far too generalized as it is currently stated, IMHO.
Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »
Uhh.....it is VERY obvious they are talking about Main Quest Story bosses. they literally state that in their post?
Did you even read the thread, @idk?
It literally says within the first few lines: "This is purely about how the gameplay of a main story boss impacts the story."
Agreed
@idk I literally said this is about the Bosses we encounter in the main story quests
In the spoiler tab “breakdown” I list out the story bosses like Mannimarco, Molag Bal, and Kaalgrontiid that these changes would be applied to.
Please read the whole thing first before questions or critiques
Im fine with making a veteran version so that we can stop hearing all the moaning about it being too easy for vet players.
Since story modes are only done once per character, I am against having special rewards for them that people on the normal version dont get. A new player wont be able to get those simply because they are new and they will be forever locked out of them if they dont want to make a new character.
The only "greater reward" I could see is additional gold and higher quailty gear like purple gear instead of blue and green.
If all you are after is "greater challenge" this should be fine.
If this really is just a grab for more rewards that other people cant get.....then it should never happen for a story mode.
We already have that with dungeons and trials but those dont go away when you do it once on the normal version so you still can get it later as you level up and get better at the game..
.
Since this has separate modes and therefore would become a repeatable activity
Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »
I like it. There literally is no negatives to this. I feel like anyone who would be against this is oddly gatekeeping endgame players from being able to enjoy story content too.
Oops, my bad. In the OP it is talking about end game players. Since regular quests that can pretty much be done at any level are not end-game it makes no sense to talk about the end-game players.
Regardless, it does not look like many end-game players are very concerned about this.
Oops, my bad. In the OP it is talking about end game players. Since regular quests that can pretty much be done at any level are not end-game it makes no sense to talk about the end-game players.
Regardless, it does not look like many end-game players are very concerned about this.
I consider myself in the End Game but I still look forward to the story questing the most. Therefore I'm concerned.
A veteran hard mode for the main story bosses would be very cool to see.They could put a Hard Mode scroll on the ground, like they do for Undaunted final bosses.
I have always been an end game raider. Well, since I got my very first character in an MMO up to end game. I still enjoy the stories but I look for my challenge where the challenge is designed and intended to be.
You can always remove the CP from your character (aka not use the points you earned). That should increase the overall difficulty a bit...
You can always remove the CP from your character (aka not use the points you earned). That should increase the overall difficulty a bit...
The problem is not that my characters are too strong. The problem is that I have learned a lot about how to play the game over the years, and for that I feel punished when it comes to enjoying the story of new chapters. I don't expect a reward, but providing experienced players with a less enjoyable ride than beginners seems bad for player retention.
MaleAmazon wrote: »
This is really kind of funny, too. Now, the 'tutorial dungeons' have gotten better (slightly), but it is still the case that you do not learn a lot of the game, and dont have to use a lot of the controls or skills, when playing the solo story.
The whole thing has a bit of an identity crisis, really. ESO is written (for the most part) as one long story: You have the Prophet MQ and the Alliance questlines (now separated so you don´t have to do the Alliance one to complete the MQ, iirc that wasn´t the case at launch, but I could be wrong).
Those alone get you to lvl 50, even without sidequests.
But yet, even with Morrowind -> Clockwork -> Summerset being sequential and tying into the MQ (and reintroducing old characters), and this keeps going with other DLC, for some reason the whole game is scaled for the utter newbie.
Who, unless they actually skipped story content, would be a high CP character by this point, just by playing.
@Vayln_Ninetails ExactlyAs if I have to gimp myself to make the BIG BAD EVIL guy of the entire year hard, then doesn't that mean there is a design flaw somewhere?
MaleAmazon wrote: »You have the Prophet MQ and the Alliance questlines (now separated so you don´t have to do the Alliance one to complete the MQ, iirc that wasn´t the case at launch, but I could be wrong).