Harder Main Story Bosses
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
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That's not a good enough reason when you literally are not affected by it. It's an optional difficulty increase! Run the quest on normal! It's not hard!
Some folks are seeing the difference in rewards as a problem. I'm not one of them, but there are some....1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
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That's not a good enough reason when you literally are not affected by it. It's an optional difficulty increase! Run the quest on normal! It's not hard!
It would not be optional to completing the achievements. I do not have to only care about things that personally effect me. I can care about things that effect othersEdited by spartaxoxo on November 22, 2020 12:42AM1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
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That's not a good enough reason when you literally are not affected by it. It's an optional difficulty increase! Run the quest on normal! It's not hard!
That is as good a reason as any. And yes, everyone who plays this game will be affected by it, for reasons that have already been stated.PCNA1 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I do have to say that there's one thing that leaves me shaking my head here. Achievements? I have ZERO interest in stuff like that.
Gold stars went out in kindergarten.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
It would not be optional to completing the achievements. I do not have to only care about things that personally effect me.
True it would not be optional to completing achievements.
But I got good news for everyone: completing achievements itself is optional ergo completing the vet mode for the achievements is optional. No one forces anyone to complete achievements, you dont need to complete achievements for anything except your desire to do so.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I do have to say that there's one thing that leaves me shaking my head here. Achievements? I have ZERO interest in stuff like that.
Gold stars went out in kindergarten.
Maybe you don't but a lot of people do. I just spent quite a while the other day helping some new players get the Melina Cassel achievement in Markarth and they were so excited to have it. You don't even get a cosmetic for that one.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 22, 2020 12:45AM1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »you dont need to complete achievements for anything except your desire to do so.
And you don't need the fundamental storyline quests to be more challenging for anything except your desire to do so.
PCNA2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »That is as good a reason as any. And yes, everyone who plays this game will be affected by it, for reasons that have already been stated.
Nah they wont be. Everyone can still do the same thing they did before. They simply have an option to do the same thing in a higher difficulty. No one is being forced to do the harder difficulty, no one is being forced to get all rewards, no one is being forced to get all achievements, no one is being forced to not do normal difficulty.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.4 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
And you don't need the fundamental storyline quests to be more challenging for anything except your desire to do so.
Exactly. Thats why it would be optional and not change anything for anyone that doesnt want a change.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.4 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »
Some folks are seeing the difference in rewards as a problem. I'm not one of them, but there are some....spartaxoxo wrote: »
It would not be optional to completing the achievements. I do not have to only care about things that personally effect me.SilverBride wrote: »
That is as good a reason as any. And yes, everyone who plays this game will be affected by it, for reasons that have already been stated.
And yet somehow they're fine with achievements being locked behind not even veteran dungeons/trials, but no death runs and speed runs? As well as the fact that, as I already said, this is the only MMO I've played where players care about it this much? Either the ESO community in particular is easily offended, or, the more likely option, you guys are assuming that most players would be offended by something like this, when the reality is they wouldn't care much about it.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Nah they wont be.
Yes, they will. Changing anything this fundamental to the game does affect everyone because it's changing the basic game.PCNA0 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I do have to say that there's one thing that leaves me shaking my head here. Achievements? I have ZERO interest in stuff like that.
Gold stars went out in kindergarten.
Achievements might not be the best thing since ESO's achievement system is, frankly, pretty ***, so I'd agree there. Bumping up the quality of dropped gear from green/blue to blue/purple, maybe increasing gold drops a little bit, would be enough, but even then I personally don't care about extra rewards, I'd use it all the same.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think some people who post here would be affected. But the amount of people who post here is a vanishingly small percentage of the playerbase.1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Yes, they will. Changing anything this fundamental to the game does affect everyone because it's changing the basic game.
But where is this change you speak of? What changes for the average player? Why does the option of a harder difficulty existing invalidate the normal difficulty? The default difficulty will still be the same. The fundamentals will still be the same. The Story will be the same. The dialogue will be the same. The characters will be the same. The mechanics will be the same. You simply have the option to do the same thing in a harder difficulty. Nothing more.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.8 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Exactly. Thats why it would be optional and not change anything for anyone that doesnt want a change.
And the only way to do that is not have different rewards and achievements for it. Just a challenge banner you can use or perhaps have the boss have defenses and hp that scale off your stats to determine difficulty.
The way this is proposed does change things, because it makes it go from something new players can complete and get all the goodies associated with the quests to something they cannot.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 22, 2020 12:59AM2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
And the only way to do that is not have different rewards and achievements for it. Just a challenge banner you can use or perhaps have the boss have defenses and hp that scale off your stats to determine difficulty.
The way this is proposed does change things, because it makes it go from something new players can complete and get all the goodies associated with the quests to something they cannot.
It only changes optional stuff. Everything essential stays the same.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Be neat if we got a pseudo Cadwell's Platinum where we get to redo the game as many times as we want with the final bosses in privately instanced scenarios getting buffed to veteran rank.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
But where is this change you speak of? What changes for the average player? Why does the option of a harder difficulty existing invalidate the normal difficulty? The default difficulty will still be the same. The fundamentals will still be the same. The Story will be the same. The dialogue will be the same. The characters will be the same. The mechanics will be the same. You simply have the option to do the same thing in a harder difficulty. Nothing more.
You are forgetting new achievements and rewards that the average player will be excluded from. There are already vet dungeons and trials with better rewards for those players who complete them. How much more do you need?PCNA1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
You are forgetting new achievements and rewards that the average player will be excluded from. There are already vet dungeons and trials with better rewards for those players who complete them. How much more do you need?
Nah Im not. It simply doesnt change the reality of the average player already being excluded from getting some achievements and rewards because of difficulty. The only thing they will be missing out on is optional stuff that they dont care about in other contexts so why would it matter now?
Towards your question: I dont need anything and I couldnt care less if the average player gets excluded from something or not. I simply find it baffling with what vehemence people are condemning something that would be entirely optional and wouldnt affect their experience in any way unless they are an achievement hunter that doesnt do vet content (so not really an achievement hunter anyway).Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »I couldnt care less if the average player gets excluded from something or not.
Well this average player does care.
Edited by SilverBride on November 22, 2020 2:03AMPCNA0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Well this average player does care.
So using your logic - you feel that all cosmetic rewards for veteran achievements in dungeons & trials should be obtainable on normal difficulty?3 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
But I still think this is more about wanting upgraded drops than the difficulty of the boss. And that would not be fair to the rest of the playerbase.
Multiple times people have stated they could care less about the drops. Completing it on harder difficulty in and of itself *is* the reward. As someone who has completed all three alliance stories and each side quest within, while roleplaying them with a friend, it is absolutely anti-climactic when the big bad boss dies before he can finish his monologue. I remove all armor and purposely gimp myself and it's still pathetically easy. I don't care if I still get the typical blue rewards. I don't care if I don't get an extra achievement. I would be so freaking happy for an optional difficulty where the big bad boss actually is harder to take down. It would feel more immersive. This is coming from an end game pve/pvp person who roleplays. It should be like literally any rpg where a main boss actually took some time and thinking to kill. Like Skyrim. Or Dragon Age. Literally any rpg. But make it optional so people who just joined the game can still cheese it.@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2400+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see! Wish listSpoilerFormer Empress | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Dawnbringer5 -
Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've already stated my case. There are some achievements that are and always will be gated behind veteran content, obviously. HOWEVER all content is open to all gamers, is it not so? As in, anyone can complete March of Sacrifices, but the Beast personality is a veteran achievement. It is a cosmetic reward, it affects nothing. Keeping in consideration that we already have this dynamic in the game, how is it different to do this with the quest bosses? It's not. An OPTIONAL difficulty with purely cosmetic rewards in no way changes or alters what any casual player already has, and to stubbornly keep denying a portion of the community their idea of fun for no good reason at all is a selfish mind set. All the casual players could keep playing casually, and the ones who are even slightly above average can have fun. What could possibly be wrong with that? Nothing. I repeat, we already have this dynamic in the game everywhere else. Nothing changes. But I can't be bothered to explain the meaning of optional one more time, so I'll leave it at that.Angua Anyammis Ae Sunna3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
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So using your logic - you feel that all cosmetic rewards for veteran achievements in dungeons & trials should be obtainable on normal difficulty?
How does saying "Well this average player does care." translate to "you feel that all cosmetic rewards for veteran achievements in dungeons & trials should be obtainable on normal difficulty"?PCNA0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Nah Im not. It simply doesnt change the reality of the average player already being excluded from getting some achievements and rewards because of difficulty.
Which is why the only system they aren't excluded from getting everything should remain the same. They already have so little, don't need to take away the only thing they have. And they DO care about these things. It's the reason the devs have even lessened the amount of things you need to do get cosmetics in recent updates like allowing skins for mere vet completes and not for doing no death and hard mode.
A sense of completion and reward is a major reason many people play video games in the first place.
People in this thread keep ignoring that many players do value achievements, cosmetics, and completion because they want to act like this suggestion has no downsides. It's nonsense. Ofc it has downsides. Ofc some group is not gonna end up happy whether it stays the same or changes. Any kind of decision the devs make for content will have good sides and downsides.
Putting a system in like this means that it will NOT be optional to getting the good rewards and achievements. People who are just starting the game and looking for a sense of reward and completion in their early game will no longer find it. So long as you exclude those people from getting those rewards it's true.
You cannot make a system that excludes people and then claim that the system doesn't take anything from anyone. It objectively does. Whether or not that's compelling is one thing, but claiming it does not is objectively false. It is inherent to exclusion.
Right now, the current system doesn't exclude anyone. Anyone who wants a reward can get it. They might get bored, but it is there for the taking. Introducing exclusion leaves people out.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 22, 2020 2:36AM1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
How does saying "Well this average player does care." translate to "you feel that all cosmetic rewards for veteran achievements in dungeons & trials should be obtainable on normal difficulty"?
Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.
You’re essentially arguing against how the game already works.
How is my proposal any different than from the systems already in-place?
Edit: as others have pointed out, you can still play it on normal, you can still play casually like you normally do. It doesn’t put the story behind a gate in anyway.
But if you want these other cosmetic items then you have to complete these veteran achievements to obtain them.
(which by the way don’t exist yet, I am not talking about any already existing cosmetic items that are currently tied to completing the main quest - you can still get those on normal.)Edited by Iccotak on November 22, 2020 2:34AM1 -
Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »
Multiple times people have stated they could care less about the drops. Completing it on harder difficulty in and of itself *is* the reward. As someone who has completed all three alliance stories and each side quest within, while roleplaying them with a friend, it is absolutely anti-climactic when the big bad boss dies before he can finish his monologue. I remove all armor and purposely gimp myself and it's still pathetically easy. I don't care if I still get the typical blue rewards. I don't care if I don't get an extra achievement. I would be so freaking happy for an optional difficulty where the big bad boss actually is harder to take down. It would feel more immersive. This is coming from an end game pve/pvp person who roleplays. It should be like literally any rpg where a main boss actually took some time and thinking to kill. Like Skyrim. Or Dragon Age. Literally any rpg. But make it optional so people who just joined the game can still cheese it.
As one who roleplays the story with my friends as well (and I spend a great deal of time fleshing out these villains and building up suspense for boss encounters)...Just waltzing up to them and killing them with a well thrown acorn is horrid. Why must I be a veteran player OR a casual quester? Why can't I enjoy an optional setting to fulfill my own immersion?Angua Anyammis Ae Sunna3 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭"You are forgetting new achievements and rewards that the average player will be excluded from. There are already vet dungeons and trials with better rewards for those players who complete them. How much more do you need?"
Vet dungeons and trials are fun, yes. But don't stereotype every end game player as only enjoying those. Over. And over. And over again. Many (if not most) of us do enjoy immersing ourselves in the story. I began playing ESO for the story. I only got involved in the end game scene 2 years ago (out of nearly 5 years playing). Vet dungeons and trials are disastrously repeatable and only offer so much.
Being able to experience the emotion of completing a main quest story...the feeling as you're about to face an intense boss. Finally taking it down...Right now, we're complaining because we reach this point and this super hyped up bad guy goes down before he can finish talking...and it ruins the fun. We want to feel immersed just like you do. Like our character fought hard to get here and win. Not just slapped it with a fire stick and it go boom. That's boring. It would be so much fun if we fight our little butts off and it takes some time. The bad guy can finish his monologue. We take hits..it gets close. When we finally win, we feel like we've accomplished something. Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.Edited by Seminolegirl1992 on November 22, 2020 2:36AM@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2400+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see! Wish listSpoilerFormer Empress | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Dawnbringer3 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »
As one who roleplays the story with my friends as well (and I spend a great deal of time fleshing out these villains and building up suspense for boss encounters)...Just waltzing up to them and killing them with a well thrown acorn is horrid. Why must I be a veteran player OR a casual quester? Why can't I enjoy an optional setting to fulfill my own immersion?
I for one would like to start fighting things with a well thrown acorn now, please and thanks.
LOL in all seriousness, yesssss. Why does there have to be a divide between veteran player and quester? Can we not have fun in questing because we can hit harder?
@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2400+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see! Wish listSpoilerFormer Empress | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Dawnbringer2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.
That's the problem.
You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.
The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.
That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.
They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.
My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.
Edited by spartaxoxo on November 22, 2020 2:48AM0
This discussion has been closed.