ESO either needs to be retuned, or brand new "hard mode" servers added. I can't stop yawning.

Dahveed · May 2020

I know, I know, "I think I do, but I don't!"
-the comments

NOTE: BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT RAIDS AND VET DUNGEONS ETC, I'M TALKING ABOUT SOLO EXPLORATION. You may proceed

Other people have said it before, and this person has already beaten me to the punch: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524584/why-is-this-game-so-easy/p1

There are too many enemies, and they are all laughable. ESO exploration feels like a repetitive game for children.

I would also like to point out how utterly broken the economy is.

I've been playing WoW classic lately on brand new toons, and it feels like every tiny scrap you collect, every copper, has value. I go to train my skills or buy some mana water, and I have to weigh every option carefully. Every penny counts, and every quest reward feels satisfying. I rolled a new paladin on a fresh server, and after about 5 hours of playing I now have something like 4 silver and 83 copper.

Contrast that with ESO. Look at the daily rewards for this month. "Oh look, you logged in, here's 10,000 gold. YES THAT'S RIGHT TEN THOUSAND GOLD... After all you earned it didn't you? You logged in and then clicked a button. Good lord that is awful.

Not sure if it's intentional to constantly tank the value of gold so that Crowns are more valuable? I dunno, I never really use the crown store.

As much as I love many aspects of ESO (story, dialogue, lore, exploration etc), the gameplay is just awful. I always tolerated it, but after coming back from playing classic WoW - which is now almost TWO DECADES OLD, by the way - I now truly realize how terrible it really is.

Awful, awful game design, no semblance whatsoever of variety or balance in the questing experience, and a completely laughable economy. (Seriously, 10k gold just for logging in, what the hell.)

I've asked for it before, I don't suppose it'll ever happen, but some kind of hard mode server or something is desperately needed. After just a few months of classic WoW I can barely even stomach this game anymore.

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

There was a hard mode added it was Performance Update 25.

Glad you are having fun with WOW.

So about your stuff....?

IronWooshu · May 2020

I've said it before, I see new people dying all the time to overland encounters. I started a new account to remember what it was like to play fresh with no CP, no armor sets to level with and I was taking damage, sometimes to the point where the corners would flash red but it was still fairly easy for me

Why?

Because of repetition, I know the fights and I know the mechanics.

Without that knowledge the game would still be challenging for someone completely new.

Nairinhe · May 2020

If you think that WOW is so good and ESO is so bad, what the heck are you doing here? Go play WOW then

Kiralyn2000 · May 2020

also - comparing the economy of a current-era game with 20-year-old "WoW Classic". Pretty sure if you played WoW-current, you'd have a heck of a lot more gold, and that the economy would be completely different. And that's even ignoring the comparison of a b2p/f2p game (with things like login rewards) to a sub game from before anything like that existed.

But you just seem to be wanting to yell about how bad everything is, so.... carry on.

edit: ah, and looking at the month's reward chart, you're repeatedly going on about "Seriously, 10k gold for logging in!" about the extra-special end of week reward. As opposed to the 6 days before, and the 13 days after, of filler crap. Ok, sure.

Taleof2Cities · May 2020

Dahveed wrote: »

NOTE: BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT RAIDS AND VET DUNGEONS ETC, I'M TALKING ABOUT SOLO EXPLORATION. You may proceed

Sorry, @Dahveed, you're playing an MMO not a solo game.

Find games that cater to that playstyle instead of cherry-picking a few unrepresentative parts of ESO to complain about.

StormeReigns · May 2020

Popular Classic Threads
Loot councils are ruining the game, make loot personal like in retail, Classic too easy bring back TBC / WotLK, Cheapen mount Cost. Make Paladin / Lock Mounts Free no need for mount quests in 2020, nerf twinks, nerf locks and mages so I can boomchicken to easy gear pls.

Dahveed · May 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dahveed wrote: »

NOTE: BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT RAIDS AND VET DUNGEONS ETC, I'M TALKING ABOUT SOLO EXPLORATION. You may proceed

Sorry, @Dahveed, you're playing an MMO not a solo game.

Find games that cater to that playstyle instead of cherry-picking a few unrepresentative parts of ESO to complain about.

"unrepresentative"?

I have been playing this game since 2016, and questing is literally all I have done. On Steam alone I have 1,500 hours played and I have been in a group with other players about 4 times. I can't back anything up I say with stats, but everyone I know who plays this game is a solo player. Questing and exploring is an integral part of this game... if it weren't, they wouldn't have tens of thousands of hours of solo quest dialogue for players to listen to.

[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

iCaliban · May 2020

Dahveed wrote: »

show previous quotes

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

NOTE: BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT RAIDS AND VET DUNGEONS ETC, I'M TALKING ABOUT SOLO EXPLORATION. You may proceed

Sorry, @Dahveed, you're playing an MMO not a solo game.

Find games that cater to that playstyle instead of cherry-picking a few unrepresentative parts of ESO to complain about.

"unrepresentative"?

I have been playing this game since 2016, and questing is literally all I have done. On Steam alone I have 1,500 hours played and I have been in a group with other players about 4 times. I can't back anything up I say with stats, but everyone I know who plays this game is a solo player. Questing and exploring is an integral part of this game... if it weren't, they wouldn't have tens of thousands of hours of solo quest dialogue for players to listen to.

[Snip].
[Edited for bait]

[Snip]. Trials and vet dungeons have stories. You are choosing to not engage with challenging mechanics and instead complaining that the kiddy pool isnt tough enough.

Thats like beating on kids in basketball then refusing to play people your own age

[Edited for removed content]

Anumaril · May 2020

I recently just made a new character specifically meant for overland content (non-dungeon, non-trial, non-PvP) where I don't add any Champion Points, add only a few skill points to weak/flavourful skills that fit my character's fantasy, and add attribute points to attributes that do not boost my damage.
This was the only way for me to feel any sort of genuine challenge in overland content and I'm saddened that it's come to this, but on the bright side I've never felt so immersed in the world around me. I actually have to be careful with what I pull, and I have to strategise before a quest's boss fight.
I'm liking this a lot more than using my other maxed-out characters that I use for PvP/PvE. With those ones I could never achieve a sufficient level of weakness where things were challenging, even if I unequipped all my armour and used weak skills (and at some point "trying to become weaker" eliminates so much of your toolset it stops being fun).

If you're finding things challenging then I recomend doing what I did: create a brand new character; don't use potions; don't use food; don't use champion points; use skills that add flavour but not power; don't add passives that add too much (or really any) power; wear weak gear (but with flavourful set bonuses that add to the character's fantasy); use no weapons (if you're a spellcaster like me).

Dahveed · May 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

also - comparing the economy of a current-era game with 20-year-old "WoW Classic". Pretty sure if you played WoW-current, you'd have a heck of a lot more gold, and that the economy would be completely different. And that's even ignoring the comparison of a b2p/f2p game (with things like login rewards) to a sub game from before anything like that existed.

But you just seem to be wanting to yell about how bad everything is, so.... carry on.

edit: ah, and looking at the month's reward chart, you're repeatedly going on about "Seriously, 10k gold for logging in!" about the extra-special end of week reward. As opposed to the 6 days before, and the 13 days after, of filler crap. Ok, sure.

I stopped playing retail WoW a couple years ago for the same reasons that I'm complaining about ESO now. After cataclysm they ruined the balance of leveling zones and destroyed the economy by flooding the game with EVERYTHING that used to be hard-fought.

Nobody is yelling.

And yes, 10k gold for logging in. It's not necessarily an "extra-special end of week reward". It's on a timer. This entire month, all I have to do is log in 6 times, click a button, then log out. Gratz on your hard work, here is 10k gold. It's dumb.

Arunei · May 2020

Difficulty is subjective. You know why things are easy for you? It's because you've been playing long enough to know what you're doing, to know mechanics and how to handle them, to know how to allocate CP and what gear and stuff is best.

But the people who aren't as experienced aren't going to find it so easy. Make things harder and all the people who already find it hard will complain it's too hard. Heck, I've seen threads where people already complain the game is too hard.

And ZOS isn't going to add any 'hard mode' servers. For one, they hardly keep up on the servers they have now. For another, again, difficulty is subjective. Any hard mode servers might be sufficient for x, not hard enough for y, and too hard for z. It would be the same as it is now.

Dahveed · May 2020

Anumaril wrote: »

I recently just made a new character specifically meant for overland content (non-dungeon, non-trial, non-PvP) where I don't add any Champion Points, add only a few skill points to weak/flavourful skills that fit my character's fantasy, and add attribute points to attributes that do not boost my damage.
This was the only way for me to feel any sort of genuine challenge in overland content and I'm saddened that it's come to this, but on the bright side I've never felt so immersed in the world around me. I actually have to be careful with what I pull, and I have to strategise before a quest's boss fight.
I'm liking this a lot more than using my other maxed-out characters that I use for PvP/PvE. With those ones I could never achieve a sufficient level of weakness where things were challenging, even if I unequipped all my armour and used weak skills (and at some point "trying to become weaker" eliminates so much of your toolset it stops being fun).

If you're finding things challenging then I recomend doing what I did: create a brand new character; don't use potions; don't use food; don't use champion points; use skills that add flavour but not power; don't add passives that add too much (or really any) power; wear weak gear (but with flavourful set bonuses that add to the character's fantasy); use no weapons (if you're a spellcaster like me).

I get it, I've done this before too.... but it takes so much of the fun out of the game. Part of the game is levelling UP, not levelling DOWN.

mayasunrising · May 2020

I would love to see an overland (which would include delves and public dungeons) vet/hardmode switch.

StormeReigns · May 2020

The personal experiences of a single or even a remote select few (especially within the already small fraction of the vocal minority) do not, nor do they ever dictate the play styles or experiences of other players, no matter how similar or different they may be.

Noxavian · May 2020

IronWooshu wrote: »

I've said it before, I see new people dying all the time to overland encounters. I started a new account to remember what it was like to play fresh with no CP, no armor sets to level with and I was taking damage, sometimes to the point where the corners would flash red but it was still fairly easy for me

Why?

Because of repetition, I know the fights and I know the mechanics.

Without that knowledge the game would still be challenging for someone completely new.

I have played this game for 4 years and I have never seen a single person die from Overland content.

Unless you're talking about dragons, world bosses, dolmens, or public dungeons. Normal overland content though? That's a bit of a stretch considering everything can be easily done at lvl 3.

Dahveed · May 2020

Arunei wrote: »

Difficulty is subjective. You know why things are easy for you? It's because you've been playing long enough to know what you're doing, to know mechanics and how to handle them, to know how to allocate CP and what gear and stuff is best.

But the people who aren't as experienced aren't going to find it so easy. Make things harder and all the people who already find it hard will complain it's too hard. Heck, I've seen threads where people already complain the game is too hard.

And ZOS isn't going to add any 'hard mode' servers. For one, they hardly keep up on the servers they have now. For another, again, difficulty is subjective. Any hard mode servers might be sufficient for x, not hard enough for y, and too hard for z. It would be the same as it is now.

You're completely wrong.

As I said in my OP, I went BACK to classic WoW and I am finding it very, very difficult. I made several different toons, and all of them die all the time. (I think my level 13 rogues has died about 50 times now.)

And this is World of Warcraft, a game I have literally played for over a decade. A game which I played pvp arenas in, did raids in, had about 10k achievement points, and could destroy about 90% of the player base in with my eyes closed.

I don't care about e-peen, prestige, bragging, "destroying n00bs" or whatever, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm awesome or whatever.

Just to say that you are completely, utterly wrong on this point. The game's lack of difficulty for me has nothing to do with how good or bad I am. It's just easy.

Just like classic WoW is harder. I've played WoW for almost 3x as long as I've played ESO, but classic WoW still destroys me at every turn.

Honestly a lot of people in this thread sound just like the guy at that BlizzCon panel who is smugly telling me "YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DON'T!"

Then they release classic WoW and their servers can't even handle the sheer number of people who flocked to it because they missed that experience.

There is a HUGE market for people who want challenging overland content. If they made a separate "hard mode" server and just charged crowns for it or something, ESO players would flock to that as well.

Noxavian · May 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dahveed wrote: »

NOTE: BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT RAIDS AND VET DUNGEONS ETC, I'M TALKING ABOUT SOLO EXPLORATION. You may proceed

Sorry, @Dahveed, you're playing an MMO not a solo game.

Find games that cater to that playstyle instead of cherry-picking a few unrepresentative parts of ESO to complain about.

ESO used to be like that though.

Back when ZONES had levels, things were pretty tough.

Not sure what you're smoking, the OP has a perfectly valid point.

BennyButton · May 2020

Why play ESO solo when you can play Skyrim also solo?

mikikatze · May 2020

I'm still 400k off for my house, please give me your money if it's too much for you.

Dahveed · May 2020

BennyButton wrote: »

Why play ESO solo when you can play Skyrim also solo?

That's an excellent suggestion! People should play Skyrim, too!

That's what I've done for about 4,000 hours or so. (I'll probably pass 10k by the time I'm dead.)

But I also like ESO.

That's the thing, people are allowed to play one video game they like, AND ANOTHER ONE, at the SAME TIME!

Kiralyn2000 · May 2020

Noxavian wrote: »

I have played this game for 4 years and I have never seen a single person die from Overland content.

Unless you're talking about dragons, world bosses, dolmens, or public dungeons. Normal overland content though? That's a bit of a stretch considering everything can be easily done at lvl 3.

In the run-up to Summerset, I made a Warden to play Morrowind for the first time. While I was going through that, I several times saw people talking in chat about getting mangled by regular zone mobs, and other people commiserating/agreeing with them.

That's a bit of a stretch considering everything can be easily done at lvl 3...

...by someone who knows what they're doing.

But yeah, the whole "well just turn off your CP!" thing isn't a solution. Because the bigger problem is that all these super-pro endgamers who complain about zone content have huge amounts of experience with the game's systems. Even without CP, they still know how to make a better build, how to use game mechanics to best effect, etc. Without mindwipes, it's hard to make low-end content "challenging" for high-end players.

(and a difficulty slider/etc like in the other Elder Scrolls games won't do it either - l33t d00d players have been complaining on Bethesda forums for a decade+ that it doesn't actually add difficulty, just makes everything damage sponges. Moar HP/Moar Damage isn't better AI or mechanics. And endgame/trial/vet players are used to harder mechanics, on dungeon mobs that are already Moar HP.)

Anumaril · May 2020

Dahveed wrote: »

I get it, I've done this before too.... but it takes so much of the fun out of the game. Part of the game is levelling UP, not levelling DOWN.

I completely agree. That's the reason why I've made myself a new character where I hopefully don't have to worry too much about gear/skills since I am nerfing myself so much by not allocating CP/attributes/pasives effectively or at all.

KyraCROgnon · May 2020

About single player difficulty : my main caracter, who is vet raiding (but lightly, can't manage the harder vet raids) and who i know well, can sleepwalk through any solo content. Can't solo most of the dlc world bosses but asside from that rest is *** easy.
But i also have "fillers" characters that are now mostly walking bag holders, who i never had time to develop. And let's just say that the few time i take them anywhere (mostly because i need some skill points for crafting), i do get killed quite a bit until i remember to be carefull.

My complain with the solo world is more the decreasing quality of the quests storytelling. The original storylines (all 3 of them) ranged from good to great. Wrothgar was AWESOME . Golden coast i loved too. But the 3 chapters have been less and less well written i thing : Morrowind was fairly good. Summerset was funny but less profound. Elsweyr was just boring. And the mid-year dlcs have become so superficial. More grinding for motif / achievements, but a hollow shell of a storyline

IronWooshu · May 2020

Noxavian wrote: »

show previous quotes

IronWooshu wrote: »

I've said it before, I see new people dying all the time to overland encounters. I started a new account to remember what it was like to play fresh with no CP, no armor sets to level with and I was taking damage, sometimes to the point where the corners would flash red but it was still fairly easy for me

Why?

Because of repetition, I know the fights and I know the mechanics.

Without that knowledge the game would still be challenging for someone completely new.

I have played this game for 4 years and I have never seen a single person die from Overland content.

Unless you're talking about dragons, world bosses, dolmens, or public dungeons. Normal overland content though? That's a bit of a stretch considering everything can be easily done at lvl 3.

I just saw two level 8's die to Martine in Lerineaux Manor.

I wish ZOS would put statistics on deaths from NPC's in overland just over the last month for PC and consoles just to show you how wrong you are.

Sure everything can be done easily at level 3 if you already know the mechanics of the game or are over 160CP since monsters dont scale past that or wearing two 5 piece sets to level.

Saying otherwise is just playing ignorant.

Dagoth_Rac · May 2020

They used to have "hard mode" versions of all the base game zones like Auridon, Rivenspire, etc. And Craglorn overland used to be designed with groups in mind and pulling a couple wasps solo was practically a death sentence. But it was incredibly unpopular, the "vet zones" were largely empty, and One Tamriel merged everything into single zones where players scale up to max level. And it was a tremendous success.

Casual players want casual content to be casual. And there are not enough players who want overland mobs to be tedious hit-point sponges for that to have appeal.

BennyButton · May 2020

Dahveed wrote: »

show previous quotes

BennyButton wrote: »

Why play ESO solo when you can play Skyrim also solo?

That's an excellent suggestion! People should play Skyrim, too!

That's what I've done for about 4,000 hours or so. (I'll probably pass 10k by the time I'm dead.)

But I also like ESO.

That's the thing, people are allowed to play one video game they like, AND ANOTHER ONE, at the SAME TIME!

The thing is, this is a massively multiplayer online role-play game lol, which means it's not about the "solo exploration" experience.

Deloth_Vyrr · May 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

and a difficulty slider/etc like in the other Elder Scrolls games won't do it either - l33t d00d players have been complaining on Bethesda forums for a decade+ that it doesn't actually add difficulty, just makes everything damage sponges. Moar HP/Moar Damage isn't better AI or mechanics. And endgame/trial/vet players are used to harder mechanics, on dungeon mobs that are already Moar HP.

Actually a HM toggle that just added a crapton more HP and damage would be a big improvement because for the most part, Overland encounters (especially story bosses and such) already have really cool mechanics, especially in later expansions, the problem is, geared players can burn these bosses down before they get to do anything, and what few they do get off don't actually do enough damage to matter.

Amp up both those things (time it takes to kill boss, how much damage boss mechanics do) to the point where high level players can't skip/ignore them and you have engaging content.

Noxavian · May 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Noxavian wrote: »

I have played this game for 4 years and I have never seen a single person die from Overland content.

Unless you're talking about dragons, world bosses, dolmens, or public dungeons. Normal overland content though? That's a bit of a stretch considering everything can be easily done at lvl 3.

In the run-up to Summerset, I made a Warden to play Morrowind for the first time. While I was going through that, I several times saw people talking in chat about getting mangled by regular zone mobs, and other people commiserating/agreeing with them.

show previous quotes

That's a bit of a stretch considering everything can be easily done at lvl 3...

...by someone who knows what they're doing.

But yeah, the whole "well just turn off your CP!" thing isn't a solution. Because the bigger problem is that all these super-pro endgamers who complain about zone content have huge amounts of experience with the game's systems. Even without CP, they still know how to make a better build, how to use game mechanics to best effect, etc. Without mindwipes, it's hard to make low-end content "challenging" for high-end players.

(and a difficulty slider/etc like in the other Elder Scrolls games won't do it either - l33t d00d players have been complaining on Bethesda forums for a decade+ that it doesn't actually add difficulty, just makes everything damage sponges. Moar HP/Moar Damage isn't better AI or mechanics. And endgame/trial/vet players are used to harder mechanics, on dungeon mobs that are already Moar HP.)

"By someone who knows what they're doing"

My guy.

The game is NOT that complex. Double tap movement keys to dodge, block obviously blockable spells (as a new player if u have tutorials on it even tells you when to block when an enemy is using an attack that needs it.)

You get skills, press said skills, win. Use damage skills to deal dmg use heal skill when low.

There is no 'learning curve' like you're hinting at for overland content. You literally can light attack things to death with no use of skills if you really wanted to.

Me knowing how to do that ^ at the start is no different than what a normal person playing the game for the first time should know. Assuming they aren't an idiot.

Dahveed · May 2020

Even without CP, they still know how to make a better build, how to use game mechanics to best effect, etc. Without mindwipes, it's hard to make low-end content "challenging" for high-end players.

Again, I go back to my point about classic WoW.

In WoW, I am a high end player. I played WoW for over a decade. Every expansion, every toon, every race/class combination possible. There is literally nothing in WoW I didn't do before I quit in 2017 (I think).

I know literally everything about WoW.

And yet, when I go back to classic and roll a new toon, I die all the time. I have 6 different toons, and so far only my prot pally has only died once (he's only level 9, give him a chance) and every other toon has died multiple times before lvl 10... my level 13 rogue has died about 50 times now.

But if I go to retail WoW and roll a new toon, I can quite literally level to max without even coming close to dying ONCE. It's because they completely nerfed everything into joke territory.

Same is true of ESO. The game is just easy.

I've tried making a couple new characters but quickly abandon them when I realize that none of the actual mechanics change. It's only cosmetic. I'm pressing the same buttons in basically the same order for the same result, with no strategy whatsoever.

There is no danger.

Anumaril · May 2020

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

They used to have "hard mode" versions of all the base game zones like Auridon, Rivenspire, etc. And Craglorn overland used to be designed with groups in mind and pulling a couple wasps solo was practically a death sentence. But it was incredibly unpopular, the "vet zones" were largely empty, and One Tamriel merged everything into single zones where players scale up to max level. And it was a tremendous success.

Casual players want casual content to be casual. And there are not enough players who want overland mobs to be tedious hit-point sponges for that to have appeal.

I very much enjoy the changes brought by One Tamriel, I only wish that they would address the dificulty. I've read posts by other people suggesting a 'Nightmare' mode or something where we are severely weakened, can't use soul gems to resurrect, etc. To me that sounds like a delight for those of us who have reached max lvl and are too powerful for overland content no matter what we do.