Why is this game so easy?

Mortac

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal. Questing and killing mobs is just a tedious running from A to B, only stopping to kill monsters in 2-8 seconds and it doesn't really matter how many monsters we pull either. We're basically playing an MMO that is tuned for under-geared 5-year olds. I'm saying that because my son can play this game without being able to read or have any understanding of what the skills on his hotbar do. He just mashes them randomly and kills things.

Doing delves feels so pointless. Usually you run into other players as well and everyone's just aching to kill stuff, but everything is mowed down in 2 seconds, and delves really become nothing but something you just run through, trying to get a hit or two in on things to gain exp. So incredibly boring, and such incredibly bad design.

Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player. So the moment you add more people in there, the already trivial content becomes fully and completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.

What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo. But as soon as you add a couple more players, even that content becomes quite easy. The only annoying thing is that dungeons are in general quite easy, too, but they add certain one-shot or nearly one-shot mechanics into the game to make it harder. That's a lousy way of adding challenge, because it means you can run through everything you're thrown against, but then a sudden and sometimes unavoidable mechanic prevents you from advancing further. Those are some of the most frowned-upon things from a player perspective because they're just not fun.

I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change, but overall this game needs a huge re-tuning. Doubling mob health and damage would be a start, but much more would certainly be required. Delve bosses are more like what normal mobs should be like, but even those are ridiculously easy. Would much prefer longer, harder fights with higher experience rewards per kill than the current trivial content of killing things in a few seconds without barely taking any damage.

Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?

PS: Fix the damn bug that sometimes prevents you from attacking or using abilities!!

terrordactyl1971

Have you played the arenas, vet dungeons or trials yet?

rotaugen454

Finish some vet trials, then we'll talk about easy. Overland and delves are meant for everyone, not to be a big challenge.

mocap

no one knows, actually. There are many opinions why overland so easy, but no official statement. Some players told like "ZOS want this, ZOS want that" but no web link to proof it.

MrBrownstone

There is only one answer you need;

Overland is not "90%" of PvE content.

Prof_Bawbag

My biggest beef with overland isn't the difficulty per se, it's the condensed nature of the enemies. If they made overland more difficult, I hope they would thin the herd out. As easy as it is, it still gets tedious asf having to kill enemies every two steps. Especially in delves. If it was more difficult, that would become amplified even more.

Oblivion suffered with this too. As soon as you stepped off the beaten track there was hostile animals or npcs galore. Again, it wasn't difficult, but it became tedious to the point I stopped venturing off the beaten path. This improved immensely with Skyrim. You could actually explore without having to be in combat every few steps.

MartiniDaniels

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Have you played the arenas, vet dungeons or trials yet?

Please tell me, how completing arenas, vet dungeons and trials will help player to experience Main story of ESO which is the reason why majority of original TES players are coming to this game?

Here you have feedback of that player which is often used as an excuse of that lack difficulty. And newbie who doesn't know anything in-depth about mechanics, about animation cancelling, weaving, min-maxing and so on directly reports that game is too easy.

Mortac, unfortunately it will be only worse as you level up. As for now at least public dungeons and world bosses provide some challenge, but once you will be getting closer to CP300 and then to CP500 those will become pointlessly easy too, with some exceptions.

On the other hand, there are veteran dungeons and veteran trials - those will provide challenge as you level up, and some of them will be challenging even after you reach top level.

terrordactyl1971

"But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that."

"I'm not level 50 yet"

These 2 statements contradict each other. You haven't reached CP yet, so you haven't played anywhere near 90% of PVE content. You have played 0% of end game content, which is where the challenge lies.

terrordactyl1971

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

show previous quotes

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Have you played the arenas, vet dungeons or trials yet?

Please tell me, how completing arenas, vet dungeons and trials will help player to experience Main story of ESO which is the reason why majority of original TES players are coming to this game?

He isn't complaining about experiencing the main story, he is moaning about the difficulty. Hence, I am telling him to wait and see what DLC dungeons, vet dungeons, trials, vet trials and arenas are like.

Jakx

OP's post summarized without so many words:

Hi, I just started playing this game. The highest level I have ever gotten is level 40. I have done zero end game content. I likely have zero clue how to properly light weave let alone push 90k DPS. I am here to tell the game in my 3 days of play it needs to change entirely because LEVELING content is easy.

See you in the DLC vets and Vet Trials tomorrow?

GenjiraX

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal.

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe you're just a really good player?

eKsDee

The answer is simply: most people paying for the game, only play for the stories. You see it time and time again when people bring up overland difficulty, PvP-exclusive events, gear being locked behind harder content, etc. The conversation always devolves into some variation of "I don't want to play this game like a job, I just want to jump in and relax."

When most of your player base only play for the stories, why raise the difficulty? Why waste the effort in putting individual difficulty increases in place, when most people either don't want, or don't care about challenge? This is probably Zenimax's line of thinking.

It is unfortunate, because for a large portion of those who take the game more seriously and are invested in the harder content, it makes overland nearly unplayable if you don't switch off your brain. The lack of difficulty is the main reason I don't quest in ESO, because I find it monotonous and boring.

Talk to an NPC who barely has any character in his dialogue (except in more recent content), go to place and press buttons to kill stuff along the way, interact with item, go to another place and press buttons to kill stuff along the way, interact with item, go back to NPC while pressing buttons to kill stuff along the way.

There's no actual gameplay here. I don't have to think about what I'm doing, I don't have to pay attention to my health, I don't have to actively dodge or block attacks, I don't have to heal, and I certainly don't have to actually try to deal damage. I can zone out completely, and still utterly annihilate mobs, in basic purple gear, while half falling asleep.

But, unfortunately, most players who are paying through the teeth for new content actually enjoy that sort of gameplay, and want to just zone out and listen to quests. So why change it, when it's what brings the money in?

If you're looking for a challenge, I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere, or just stick to end game content. Too many people in ESO are used to the current state of overland, for Zenimax to do anything about it.

karekiz

Well guessing by post history you have had the account since 2015 correct? Assuming you took a break you have posts from 2018? So you definitely have a char above 50, at least I would assume that. If you do then you probably have the basics of combat down rather than slotting random things and spamming LA or Spammables?

That does change things.

The overland is of course bonkers easy, but generally World Bosses, and dragons aren't generally that easy for newer players. Quests -> Delves/Public Dungeons -> WB's -> Dragons - That seems to be the order of difficulty.

MartiniDaniels

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

show previous quotes

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Have you played the arenas, vet dungeons or trials yet?

Please tell me, how completing arenas, vet dungeons and trials will help player to experience Main story of ESO which is the reason why majority of original TES players are coming to this game?

He isn't complaining about experiencing the main story, he is moaning about the difficulty. Hence, I am telling him to wait and see what DLC dungeons, vet dungeons, trials, vet trials and arenas are like.

I don't see moaning:

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

Mortac tells that public dungeons are alright, but general questing, delves and open world are not fun. When I was newbie I experienced 100% the same.

eKsDee

MrBrownstone wrote: »

There is only one answer you need;

Overland is not "90%" of PvE content.

How many zones are there in-game, to dungeons, trials and arenas combined (not including difficulty variations)? How many hours of content do you get out of a zone to fully complete it, compared to any other form of PvE content? How much of Zenimax's time, resources and attention go into overland, compared to any other form of PvE content?

The answer to all of the above is considerably, nay significantly more. 90% may be a bit of a stretch, but overland definitely makes up over 2/3's of all the PvE content ESO has to offer.

dennissomb16_ESO

It is the same for pretty much any established MMO. At game release everything is challenging (even basic overland content) and eventually over the course of a few years it becomes easier and easier. Part of it is the normal power creep that happens in all MMOs but mostly it is by design.

The developers make the basic game easier and easier so the established player base can easily roll up alts and quickly get them max level so they can start playing end game which usually remains somewhat challenging. Vet dungeons, Trials, PvP.

Look at a number of popular established MMOs and they are exactly the same. ESP, WoW, SWTOR, FF IV, etc. It helps to keep the established player base interested and makes it easier for new players to compete and catch up to established players.

TheShadowScout

Mortac wrote: »

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing.

Ever since One Tamriel, its been like that.
Battle levelling means your gear doesn't really have to be all at level... so, yeah, there is that. And yes, the overland content and many of the midbosses have been nerfed a lot, so as to not scare away newbie players through discouraging levels of difficulty...

Some of the midbosses in DLC regions get a bit harder BtW. And yeah, I too wish they might look into the old stuff, boost some things, at the very least the enemy HP so they become a fight again and not a quick death-stab en passant... and definitely the midbosses, add more mechanics to discover, etc.
But since they cannot monetize that... we can only hope they might space some resources for small upgrades over time...

Mortac wrote: »

Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way.

They are public to cur down on server resources. Why would anyone want more lag through the servers juggling dozends of dwelves as solo instances? On the bright side... they don't really mean much either, so its okay to just breeze through...

Mortac wrote: »

What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo.

Yeah, that IS fun.
As is soloing group dwelves, or those lower craglorn dwelves if you really want a bit of a challenge! And maelstron arena (I still die all the time when I step to close to the bad flowers... but that's my own darn fault I guess, and someday I will take the time to practice enough to clear that oen too!)

The world bosses in DLC regions are harder, and more fun too - though with most of them you may find yourself pressed hard if only going after them with two people... I know I only ever managed to do one of them -once. ina two man attack, and that one was by the skin of our teeth... but yes, lotsa fun!

And of course, if you really want a challenge... go PvP. Visit the eternal gankfest that is Imperial City. Dominate battlegrounds.

Mortac wrote: »

I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change...

...among them that your battle levelling bonus will get smaller. They DO give extra help to the lowbies after all. On the other hand, onace you start racking up CP... you will find yet another power boost coming your characters way. All your characters.

Mortac wrote: »

Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?

Well, see, a LOT of the issues you describe here are dependent on character build - or rather, on the system currently favoring "All in one" characters who overly specialize in their attack stat, forget all else (since they can make up for it with prismatic armor enchants in the end), and thus burn down the mobs way too quick.
If you want more fun, you can play as "hybrid" character - split your attribute stats. Its slower, and sometimes iffy... but more of a challenge.
If you want a true challenge... solo group stuff or PvP. Do veteran dungeons. Go for trials.
The challenging content is there if you look for it... but yeah, not where newbies might stumble over it.

You should have seen pre-nerf Doshia! You should have fought her! And pre-nerf Mannimarco! These days, those fights are faceroll-ish, but back then they truly broke gamers spirits and drove them to tears with their difficulty... some of us still have the occasional nightmare about it!

Veinblood1965

We need more assassin's creed type stories, or at least the original AC games anyway. Some that you actually have to think your way through and there's a penalty if you screw up. The thing that is lacking is NON-Group or at least groups of just one or two people content that is tough but not so tough you have no chance. Yes you can run many of the four person dungeons solo but I'm talking about PRE level 50 situations. It's laughably easy, so easy that sometimes you don't even know you killed a dev boss when they get mixed in with the trash mobs, how is that in any way fun?

Delves/Content meant for two people and you have to be below level 50 or the option to run them without CP.

vamp_emily

[ ZOS reduces damage output for all overland NPCs]
PVE Player: I am so good!

[PVE PLAYER ENTERS PVP]
PVE Player: Why you kill me!!!! [snip]

All jokes aside... everything should be challenging to some extent.



[Edit for bait.]

Tandor

The overland leveling content (apart from dungeons and world bosses) isn't intended to be scaled for groups, so even two players will find every encounter trivial compared to one player.

It looks from your post history that you have had several goes at playing this game since 2014 and walked away each time. Perhaps it's not the game for you? I don't say that critically or unkindly, not every game suits every player and perhaps you're looking for something different to what is offered here, hence your never sticking with it or getting higher than level 40 in 6 years.

kylewwefan

Just wait til your geared to the teeth with all legendary equipment and 5000 weapon damage and you still have to do a rotation on trash garbage overland funk that should fall over dead when you look at it.

That’s infuriating.

When it was leveled, you had to just but tap one skill and everything around you fell over dead. You felt strong.

Or you could be level 15; walk into a level 40 zone and the mud crabs eat you alive. That was a great confidence booster. Not.

Better off to leave it how it is dude.

Kiralyn2000

Because it's an MMO?

Seriously, try to find a mass-market MMO (not some crazy niche thing that 100 people played), where the overland & questing content was at all 'challenging' for good/endgame players.

vamp_emily wrote: »

All jokes aside... everything should be challenging to some extent.

MMOs don't work that way. They have "progression" through types of content, with each being harder. It's literally impossible to have everything be challenging to the same level of player.

(i.e, if the progression is Questing > Dungeons > Vet Dungeons > Raids, then 'bad' players will be challenged by Questing, ok players will be challenged by dungeons, and great players will be challenged by raids. And it would not be possible for those Raid-challenged players to be challenged by Questing. At least not without the entire game being instanced - i.e, not an MMO; and all the content being designed in multiple ways - because taking Quest content and just upping the numbers still wouldn't be a 'challenge' for Raid players who are used to much more complex mob design & mechanics. You'd need to build an entire new overland for them, with different mob layouts/etc.)

Zephiran23

If games want to appeal to the largest possible market, then they need to have as much content completable by as many of those players as possible. The game needs to make them money, new players are part of that revenue generating plan.

So if you're an above average player, then soloing quest content should be easy. If you're playing as a duo, then it's harder for developers to scale content that challenges the 2 of you, while still being able to be done by someone with less gaming experience and a lower level of skill/reaction times/physical abilities.

At launch it was way harder and there were a lot of complaints. More than what we're seeing now about it being too easy. Launch level Doshia and Mannimarco fights were not encouraging people to stay. Or say WOW raids where they were making lots of content most players were never seeing and eventually they introduced that lower level and maintained popularity until the other content dropped in quality.

Have ZOS got the balance right now? Probably not, but giving people a game that most can experience a large proportion of, without a high level of skill, is where most developers are now aiming to target. Hope your 5 year old continues having fun on a character he's built for himself.

nukk3r

vamp_emily wrote: »

[ ZOS reduces damage output for all overland NPCs]
PVE Player: I am so good!

[PVE PLAYER ENTERS PVP]
PVE Player: Why you kill me!!!! [snip]

All jokes aside... everything should be challenging to some extent.

[Edit for bait.]

This is literally what one of my guildies said. He was complaining that he couldn't kill anyone in PvP with his PvE toon.

Vasoka

Clear vMA with like 200CP and then talk about difficulty.

ghastley

I think the straight answer is that the game isn't centered around YOU. There's content designed for multiple levels, and you need to find what suits you best, not expect it all to be the same.

MEBengalsFan2001

Overland content is designed for the masses to finish. Vet content is designed for players wanting a challenge, though not all vet challenges are created equally.

Mortac

I'm the OP and to answer some questions:

- No, I do not have a lvl 50 character. My highest is lvl 40.
- Yes, I have played the game on and off since release. By that I mean playing maybe 2-3 weeks every year and a half. Main reason for quitting all the time is due to the things stated in the OP. Easy games bore me because they feel pointless.
- I understand content needs to be there for players of all levels, however, the current overland and delve mobs are so easy that nobody can possibly be so bad that they fail them. One also needs to keep in mind that this is an MMO where a major part of the game is balanced around terrible SOLO players. Those two don't mix all that well.
- I understand things will change in many ways at the endgame. That's why I said so in the OP as well. But delves and overworld content will not change.

Are trials for solo players?
Do veteran dungeons need full groups?

I'm very interested in playing content that is doable for 2 people. Basically hoping for content that isn't too easy for 2 people but also is impossible without more than 2 people.

JTD

Good idea, lets all make fun of the player who is progressing through the story and hasn't experienced any difficulty yet. 'Wait till you hit endgame' & 'We'll speak after you do veteran content'.

Most players in ESO find no difficulty in the overland content (incl story) or in normal dungeons / trials. Then they step into the veteran contant and they hit a wall. How the heck is that supposed to work? Git gud? Why would you when you were never incentivised to improve your play during playing? While doing all that overland content there is NEVER a moment you feel challenged.

In vet content you meet us neckbeards complaining that you're not good enough or yelling l2p. That will surely motivate them. One of the reasons i've not finished cadwell's quest was the mindnumbingly boring content.... i'd rather go for GH (still have not got that).

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Overland content is designed for the masses to finish. Vet content is designed for players wanting a challenge, though not all vet challenges are created equally.

Yeah, if only there was a rhyme and reason to the level of difficulty in veteran trials and dungeons.... it's all over the place.

Mortac

Mortac wrote: »

I'm very interested in playing content that is doable for 2 people. Basically hoping for content that isn't too easy for 2 people but also is impossible without more than 2 people.

Supposed to say "content that isn't too easy for 2 people but also ISN'T impossible without more than two people." Can't seem to edit the post.

ElliottXO

It's funny how most people haven't even read his post.

Yep, overland content has become way too easy over the years, and most vet dungeons as well (except DLC).

Power creep is real, and this is exactly why nerfs are essential for game balance. Otherwise you just keep inflating the numbers.