Harder Main Story Bosses

Sylvermynx · November 2020

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

I for one would like to start fighting things with a well thrown acorn now, please and thanks.

LOL in all seriousness, yesssss. Why does there have to be a divide between veteran player and quester? Can we not have fun in questing because we can hit harder?

Well, I think (having read so many many threads about this over the last 2.5 years) there are a few "vet players" who are totally bored with this game, but they are not finding anything else to play that fits whatever it is they're jonesing for.

So we get these threads over and over....

[Oh, as far as acorns go.... I have to hire people to clean up the acorns and leaves the oak drop when it gets cold.... so like Monday, the guys will be here to deal with the mess.... at a cost of hundreds.... I would be very happy to provide acorns for people to throw; maybe it wouldn't cost me so much....]

Seminolegirl1992 · November 2020

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. Dungeons and trials are a tiny part of the game. I don't understand the mindset that adding an optional difficulty is an issue, because it's optional.

SilverBride · November 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

... your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

No. My present viewpoint is that they should not alter the fundamental structure of this game by changing the storyline "boss" into something more, and attach a special reward that is now excluded from those who do the normal story as already established.

Iccotak wrote: »

You’re essentially arguing against how the game already works.

You are trying to change how the game already works.

Iccotak wrote: »

How is my proposal any different than from the systems already in-place?

See above.

Seminolegirl1992 · November 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.
show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

Iccotak · November 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves.

1. What am I taking away specifically? You can still play the story the exact same way as you’ve always done and get the “Beat the Story” achievement.
2. Then you make the “Lair” achievements separate from story & delves. Problem solved. Still optional, you don’t have to get them.

I think dismissing people who want the final fight to be fun for them is being exclusionary.

I don’t care if it’s a title, color, skin, etc. whatever - but according to how the game is designed I have to put in some achievement and cosmetic reward attached. That’s how you make it repeatable content which is part of a long term player engagement.
(The other major reason I wouldn’t make it reputable and with cosmetic incentive, is so then players can go back to older content there’s incentive if they want to)
That’s how content is designed

Seminolegirl1992 · November 2020

Sylvermynx wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

I for one would like to start fighting things with a well thrown acorn now, please and thanks.

LOL in all seriousness, yesssss. Why does there have to be a divide between veteran player and quester? Can we not have fun in questing because we can hit harder?

Well, I think (having read so many many threads about this over the last 2.5 years) there are a few "vet players" who are totally bored with this game, but they are not finding anything else to play that fits whatever it is they're jonesing for.

So we get these threads over and over....

[Oh, as far as acorns go.... I have to hire people to clean up the acorns and leaves the oak drop when it gets cold.... so like Monday, the guys will be here to deal with the mess.... at a cost of hundreds.... I would be very happy to provide acorns for people to throw; maybe it wouldn't cost me so much....]

I am definitely not one of those players. I am not totally bored because I am a part of two roleplay guilds and a trials guild, so there will always be something to do. But it just makes me a little sad that quest content is so anti-climactic, is all. I long for those encounters to be *meaningful*. I crave it.

Gives meh all the acorns

Iccotak · November 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

show previous quotes

Iccotak wrote: »

... your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

No. My present viewpoint is that they should not alter the fundamental structure of this game by changing the storyline "boss" into something more, and attach a special reward that is now excluded from those who do the normal story as already established.

show previous quotes

Iccotak wrote: »

You’re essentially arguing against how the game already works.

You are trying to change how the game already works.

show previous quotes

Iccotak wrote: »

How is my proposal any different than from the systems already in-place?

See above.

We have already addressed every single one of your points as to why it doesn’t fundamentally change the game at all.
As someone in the thread has already pointed out, this is just going in circles.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

I for one would like to start fighting things with a well thrown acorn now, please and thanks.

LOL in all seriousness, yesssss. Why does there have to be a divide between veteran player and quester? Can we not have fun in questing because we can hit harder?

Well, I think (having read so many many threads about this over the last 2.5 years) there are a few "vet players" who are totally bored with this game, but they are not finding anything else to play that fits whatever it is they're jonesing for.

So we get these threads over and over....

[Oh, as far as acorns go.... I have to hire people to clean up the acorns and leaves the oak drop when it gets cold.... so like Monday, the guys will be here to deal with the mess.... at a cost of hundreds.... I would be very happy to provide acorns for people to throw; maybe it wouldn't cost me so much....]

I am definitely not one of those players. I am not totally bored because I am a part of two roleplay guilds and a trials guild, so there will always be something to do. But it just makes me a little sad that quest content is so anti-climactic, is all. I long for those encounters to be *meaningful*. I crave it.

Gives meh all the acorns

I too have beaten every almost all veteran content, I have almost almost all skins, I have all personalities from veteran content, etc. But questing is what drew me to the game. And because I outgrew the overland bosses well before I ever hit level 20, with no cp, I mostly stopped questing. At cp1356 now, I would dearly love to just go out in the world and quest again, and for the joy of it...not the drudgery. I want to feel that sense of adventure, and accomplishment, just as I did in all the other Elder Scrolls games.

SilverBride · November 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

We have already addressed every single one of your points as to why it doesn’t fundamentally change the game at all.

You have given your view as to why you don't think it fundamentally changes the game. I don't agree with it.

Iccotak wrote: »

As someone in the thread has already pointed out, this is just going in circles.

Don't feel obligated to respond if you feel it would be fruitless.

rpa · November 2020

I'm fine with difficulty (increasing) slider or switch on story content but I feel that difficulty setting having any effect to rewards or achievements would be a very bad idea in a mmo. Casual me would not care but those with obsessive completionism disorder would be in pain. Hard mode would be optional for me but not for them. And I think that particular group of people spends much more in cash shop than I do...

Seminolegirl1992 · November 2020

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

I for one would like to start fighting things with a well thrown acorn now, please and thanks.

LOL in all seriousness, yesssss. Why does there have to be a divide between veteran player and quester? Can we not have fun in questing because we can hit harder?

Well, I think (having read so many many threads about this over the last 2.5 years) there are a few "vet players" who are totally bored with this game, but they are not finding anything else to play that fits whatever it is they're jonesing for.

So we get these threads over and over....

[Oh, as far as acorns go.... I have to hire people to clean up the acorns and leaves the oak drop when it gets cold.... so like Monday, the guys will be here to deal with the mess.... at a cost of hundreds.... I would be very happy to provide acorns for people to throw; maybe it wouldn't cost me so much....]

I am definitely not one of those players. I am not totally bored because I am a part of two roleplay guilds and a trials guild, so there will always be something to do. But it just makes me a little sad that quest content is so anti-climactic, is all. I long for those encounters to be *meaningful*. I crave it.

Gives meh all the acorns

I too have beaten every almost all veteran content, I have almost almost all skins, I have all personalities from veteran content, etc. But questing is what drew me to the game. And because I outgrew the overland bosses well before I ever hit level 20, with no cp, I mostly stopped questing. At cp1356 now, I would dearly love to just go out in the world and quest again, and for the joy of it...not the drudgery. I want to feel that sense of adventure, and accomplishment, just as I did in all the other Elder Scrolls games.

Niice! With you there.1250 something I think. I've completed the AD storyline four times? DC twice? EP once but it's my least favorite. Hell. I haven't even started on Western Skyrim, Southern Elsweyr, and the Reach because I rppve all the questlines. Impatiently waiting to do that with my friend who only logs in to rp with me now lol

Sylvermynx · November 2020

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. Dungeons and trials are a tiny part of the game. I don't understand the mindset that adding an optional difficulty is an issue, because it's optional.

The problem is that there are people who choose - or in my own case - don't really have the ability - to do "harder content" for whatever reason. And for some people who post about this from that direction, it means that some people who choose that harder content level will get "cosmetics" or other rewards that those on the "other side" cannot for whatever reason obtain.

Really though - there is so much of the content (and rewards, and achievements) in this game that is already "out of the reach" of casual players like me.... I don't see the point to belaboring it. Personally. Of course everyone else who posts here (which is a totally minor subset of the players of this game) is certainly entitled to posting their own opinion.

And I still think the whole "achievements" thing is just silly. I mean.... it's not just me - it's my daughter (in her 50s), my granddaughters (mid to late 20s), my sister (a decade younger than I am), her son and his wife (millennials) and many people I know in the gaming world around the world.

I don't know what this whole "achievement" thing is supposed to be good for. All it seems like to me (and family and friends) is kindergarten oneupsmanship.

Achievements in an MMO aren't going to feed your family - unless you're leveraging them into monetization. If that's where you're at, well.... good luck to you.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. .

Dungeon, Trials, arenas, the past 2 years of world bosses, and world events = not new player friendly

New player friendly content for the past 2 years = quests and delves.

That's it. Most of the content that is actually new has NOT been new player friendly. Most of it has been for vet players. Even the world events and world bosses changed from being casual content to vet content.

So much so that the devs are actually beginning to scale it back because casual players have in fact taken issue with all the new content for years now being primarily catered toward vet players.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

I for one would like to start fighting things with a well thrown acorn now, please and thanks.

LOL in all seriousness, yesssss. Why does there have to be a divide between veteran player and quester? Can we not have fun in questing because we can hit harder?

Well, I think (having read so many many threads about this over the last 2.5 years) there are a few "vet players" who are totally bored with this game, but they are not finding anything else to play that fits whatever it is they're jonesing for.

So we get these threads over and over....

[Oh, as far as acorns go.... I have to hire people to clean up the acorns and leaves the oak drop when it gets cold.... so like Monday, the guys will be here to deal with the mess.... at a cost of hundreds.... I would be very happy to provide acorns for people to throw; maybe it wouldn't cost me so much....]

I am definitely not one of those players. I am not totally bored because I am a part of two roleplay guilds and a trials guild, so there will always be something to do. But it just makes me a little sad that quest content is so anti-climactic, is all. I long for those encounters to be *meaningful*. I crave it.

Gives meh all the acorns

I too have beaten every almost all veteran content, I have almost almost all skins, I have all personalities from veteran content, etc. But questing is what drew me to the game. And because I outgrew the overland bosses well before I ever hit level 20, with no cp, I mostly stopped questing. At cp1356 now, I would dearly love to just go out in the world and quest again, and for the joy of it...not the drudgery. I want to feel that sense of adventure, and accomplishment, just as I did in all the other Elder Scrolls games.

Niice! With you there.1250 something I think. I've completed the AD storyline four times? DC twice? EP once but it's my least favorite. Hell. I haven't even started on Western Skyrim, Southern Elsweyr, and the Reach because I rppve all the questlines. Impatiently waiting to do that with my friend who only logs in to rp with me now lol

That's awesome!

I've been preparing to go though the Reach with my friend in rp mode, but... After having completed the fight with the main boss there on another character, I'm going to have to let my words do the fighting, lol. It was just as terribly easy as expected, hence my appreciation for the OP of this thread.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

Seminolegirl1992 · November 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. .

Dungeon, Trials, arenas, the past 2 years of world bosses, and world events = not new player friendly

New player friendly content for the past 2 years = quests and delves.

That's it. Most of the content that is actually new has NOT been new player friendly. Most of it has been for vet players. Even the world events and world bosses changed from being casual content to vet content.

So much so that the devs are actually beginning to scale it back because casual players have in fact taken issue with all the new content for years now being primarily catered toward vet players.

Every year ZoS releases an expansion full of questing content. Started with Wrothgar. Morrowind. Murkmire. Summerset. Northern Elsweyr. Southern Elsweyr. Western Skyrim. Reach. I think Craglorn was released too...but that was before I joined the game. Or maybe it was always there, not sure. So yes, past two years it has been very new player friendly. Dungeons, trials, and arenas all have normal modes. World bosses do need more people (most can be soloed honestly) but the moment a new expansion is released, there's plenty of people to complete it. World events are insanely new player friendly. I highly disagree with you....they even started dropping Maelstrom staves on normal to cater to new players. Which most end gamers were 100% fine with it. What angered us was not upgrading our existing earned staves to a perfected version.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. .

Dungeon, Trials, arenas, the past 2 years of world bosses, and world events = not new player friendly

New player friendly content for the past 2 years = quests and delves.

That's it. Most of the content that is actually new has NOT been new player friendly. Most of it has been for vet players. Even the world events and world bosses changed from being casual content to vet content.

So much so that the devs are actually beginning to scale it back because casual players have in fact taken issue with all the new content for years now being primarily catered toward vet players.

You must be joking. All content that's been released has had a normal mode, and any player over cp160 (which takes less than two weeks to reach) can run them for gear. Less cp than that if they just want to run it. Same with dungeons, same with arenas. The overwhelming majority of content in this game has and always will be very noob friendly.

Seminolegirl1992 · November 2020

Sylvermynx wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. Dungeons and trials are a tiny part of the game. I don't understand the mindset that adding an optional difficulty is an issue, because it's optional.

The problem is that there are people who choose - or in my own case - don't really have the ability - to do "harder content" for whatever reason. And for some people who post about this from that direction, it means that some people who choose that harder content level will get "cosmetics" or other rewards that those on the "other side" cannot for whatever reason obtain.

Really though - there is so much of the content (and rewards, and achievements) in this game that is already "out of the reach" of casual players like me.... I don't see the point to belaboring it. Personally. Of course everyone else who posts here (which is a totally minor subset of the players of this game) is certainly entitled to posting their own opinion.

And I still think the whole "achievements" thing is just silly. I mean.... it's not just me - it's my daughter (in her 50s), my granddaughters (mid to late 20s), my sister (a decade younger than I am), her son and his wife (millennials) and many people I know in the gaming world around the world.

I don't know what this whole "achievement" thing is supposed to be good for. All it seems like to me (and family and friends) is kindergarten oneupsmanship.

Achievements in an MMO aren't going to feed your family - unless you're leveraging them into monetization. If that's where you're at, well.... good luck to you.

I don't play for the achievements, I play for the story. But if they were to add an optional mode, they would probably offer an additional achievement or two just because it makes sense. And agreed, the current achievement system is entirely pointless

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. .

Dungeon, Trials, arenas, the past 2 years of world bosses, and world events = not new player friendly

New player friendly content for the past 2 years = quests and delves.

That's it. Most of the content that is actually new has NOT been new player friendly. Most of it has been for vet players. Even the world events and world bosses changed from being casual content to vet content.

So much so that the devs are actually beginning to scale it back because casual players have in fact taken issue with all the new content for years now being primarily catered toward vet players.

You must be joking. All content that's been released has had a normal mode, and any player over cp160 (which takes less than two weeks to reach) can run them for gear. Less cp than that if they just want to run it. Same with dungeons, same with arenas. The overwhelming majority of content in this game has and always will be very noob friendly.

Even normal mode on that content isn't for new players, it's for mid-tier players. I have had plenty of people drop group in normal dlc dungeons and who struggle with stuff like NMA.

That's for mid tier players not new or casual players.

Sylvermynx · November 2020

@Seminolegirl1992 - thanks for taking my totally "airhead rambling" post in the spirit it was meant. I've got winter allergies, and really.... I just shouldn't post at all when I can't think....

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. .

Dungeon, Trials, arenas, the past 2 years of world bosses, and world events = not new player friendly

New player friendly content for the past 2 years = quests and delves.

That's it. Most of the content that is actually new has NOT been new player friendly. Most of it has been for vet players. Even the world events and world bosses changed from being casual content to vet content.

So much so that the devs are actually beginning to scale it back because casual players have in fact taken issue with all the new content for years now being primarily catered toward vet players.

You must be joking. All content that's been released has had a normal mode, and any player over cp160 (which takes less than two weeks to reach) can run them for gear. Less cp than that if they just want to run it. Same with dungeons, same with arenas. The overwhelming majority of content in this game has and always will be very noob friendly.

Even normal mode on that content isn't for new players, it's for mid-tier players. I have had plenty of people drop group in normal dlc dungeons and who struggle with stuff like NMA.

That's for mid tier players not new or casual players.

You and I have a drastically different definition of casual, in which case.

Thechuckage · November 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

Taking your reasoning out to the logical conclusion - Questing should be a walking simulator. Once you reach the appropriate NPC, you work thru the dialogue options. Friendly NPCs take care of all combat necessary for the story.
No one can possibly be excluded, everyone gets to see the story. Everyone gets the rewards.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Thechuckage wrote: »

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

Taking your reasoning out to the logical conclusion - Questing should be a walking simulator. Once you reach the appropriate NPC, you work thru the dialogue options. Friendly NPCs take care of all combat necessary for the story.
No one can possibly be excluded, everyone gets to see the story. Everyone gets the rewards.

No. That's taking it out to an absurd conclusion, to change the logic from what it is. Everyone already can beat the normal quests, so they don't have to be any easier than they already are. They just need to remain the same.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. .

Dungeon, Trials, arenas, the past 2 years of world bosses, and world events = not new player friendly

New player friendly content for the past 2 years = quests and delves.

That's it. Most of the content that is actually new has NOT been new player friendly. Most of it has been for vet players. Even the world events and world bosses changed from being casual content to vet content.

So much so that the devs are actually beginning to scale it back because casual players have in fact taken issue with all the new content for years now being primarily catered toward vet players.

You must be joking. All content that's been released has had a normal mode, and any player over cp160 (which takes less than two weeks to reach) can run them for gear. Less cp than that if they just want to run it. Same with dungeons, same with arenas. The overwhelming majority of content in this game has and always will be very noob friendly.

Even normal mode on that content isn't for new players, it's for mid-tier players. I have had plenty of people drop group in normal dlc dungeons and who struggle with stuff like NMA.

That's for mid tier players not new or casual players.

You and I have a drastically different definition of casual, in which case.

You're failing to see a very sizable portion of the playerbase in that case. They run around in Overland and crafted gear, decorate houses, pull 15k dps or less, and enjoy questing and random normals. But they really want an option to exclude dlc dungeons from random dungeons, because even on normal those are just too hard. They require help with world bosses and world events.

Most of them are just new. Some of them are dealing with things like bad internet or health problems. Others just want to play alone because they just prefer to play that way, nothing is wrong. They deserve to have fun too. There is currently rewarding and accomplished content for them and everyone else. That shouldn't change.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

For the twentieth time, no one here is proposing anything be taken away from anyone. Only that there be options added. Which is in fact healthy for the longevity of the game, as it gives people like me something to do after they reach level 10.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. .

Dungeon, Trials, arenas, the past 2 years of world bosses, and world events = not new player friendly

New player friendly content for the past 2 years = quests and delves.

That's it. Most of the content that is actually new has NOT been new player friendly. Most of it has been for vet players. Even the world events and world bosses changed from being casual content to vet content.

So much so that the devs are actually beginning to scale it back because casual players have in fact taken issue with all the new content for years now being primarily catered toward vet players.

You must be joking. All content that's been released has had a normal mode, and any player over cp160 (which takes less than two weeks to reach) can run them for gear. Less cp than that if they just want to run it. Same with dungeons, same with arenas. The overwhelming majority of content in this game has and always will be very noob friendly.

Even normal mode on that content isn't for new players, it's for mid-tier players. I have had plenty of people drop group in normal dlc dungeons and who struggle with stuff like NMA.

That's for mid tier players not new or casual players.

You and I have a drastically different definition of casual, in which case.

You're failing to see a very sizable portion of the playerbase in that case. They run around in Overland and crafted gear, decorate houses, pull 15k dps or less, and enjoy questing and random normals. But they really want an option to exclude dlc dungeons from random dungeons, because even on normal those are just too hard. They require help with world bosses and world events.

Most of them are just new. Some of them are dealing with things like bad internet or health problems. They deserve to have fun too. There is currently rewarding and accomplished content for them and everyone else. That shouldn't change.

I am not overlooking that portion of the playerbase, as I have played this game for many years and made it my in game profession to teach said casuals in a large guild tailored to train them. 15k dps or even 10k dps is perfectly fine to run any normal dungeon, trial, or arena with. It is casual content.

Iccotak · November 2020

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

For the twentieth time, no one here is proposing anything be taken away from anyone. Only that there be options added. Which is in fact healthy for the longevity of the game, as it gives people like me something to do after they reach level 10.

Also makes the story bosses something for everyone to look forward to and not just one group.

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

show previous quotes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

For the twentieth time, no one here is proposing anything be taken away from anyone. Only that there be options added. Which is in fact healthy for the longevity of the game, as it gives people like me something to do after they reach level 10.

They are proposing that.

Right now they can get all achievements and associated rewards through normal questing. With this change, they cannot. This takes away ability to receive ALL achievements and associated rewards through normal questing by breaking it down into a tiered reward system that excludes some players

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

show previous quotes

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Because your present argument is from the concern of being able to obtain cosmetics in the game.
When there are already plenty of cosmetics gated behind veteran achievements.

That's the problem.

You are talking taking content from people who have only a little content and giving it to people who already have a lot. It's like if poor people were being asked to donate money to make Kylie Jenner a billionaire because being a multi-millionaire isn't enough.

The new player can only complete and get all the associated achievements from quests and delves. Every other system caters to established players instead. Those established players don't need to take over introductory content meant for newer players to feel rewarded and accomplished too. And yes, many of them do care about cosmetics and achievements.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Like this apparently super strong boss actually had something to brag about. Now we know not everyone wants this, but leaving it as an option vastly improves a LOT of peoples' experience in the game.

That's fine. But no exclusives rewards for it should be introduced. You do not need a fancy cosmetic that some new player couldn't get because they didn't really complete the quest missions beating it on normal.

They saved the world, they get the prize. Same as you. I would be supportive of boss difficulty scaling automatically based on your stats, or some kind of challenge banner designed to be changed for role play.

My objection is not to the increased difficulty for immersion, it's to tying exclusive rewards to those missions and gate keeping new players out of it.

Completing things on a harder difficulty should earn exclusive achievements at the very least. Dyes, titles, skins should be earned on harder content, but I'd be so danged happy if they offered an optional increased difficulty that I'd gladly take a compromise.

I guess an achievement that wasn't tied to any reward would be an alright compromise. I just know so many casual players that have so much trouble with stuff being out of their reach because it's for the elite. One of the reasons they keep coming back anyway is they love the quests and that this is something they can do and feel accomplished. I wouldn't want that taken away from them. I don't think it's good for the game's longevity to only cater to established players for one thing, but also because I want them to enjoy the game too.

Plus as someone who does Vet content, there is genuinely never nothing to do. Sometimes I get overwhelmed honestly and go enjoy the easier content because it's easier. Knocking out some simple quest achievement can be a nice break when you and your raid group leader are fighting because you're stuck on a boss in a dlc trial prog

For me it's a matter of just wanting to relax, for others I know it's a matter of can or cannot rather than desire. They cannot do vet content, period.

For the twentieth time, no one here is proposing anything be taken away from anyone. Only that there be options added. Which is in fact healthy for the longevity of the game, as it gives people like me something to do after they reach level 10.

Also makes the story bosses something for everyone to look forward to and not just one group.

Absolutely!

spartaxoxo · November 2020

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

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spartaxoxo wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

You're not taking content from anyone. You're offering it to people who want to earn it. That's not taking. The majority of the game is catered to a casual playstyle, not the other way around. .

Dungeon, Trials, arenas, the past 2 years of world bosses, and world events = not new player friendly

New player friendly content for the past 2 years = quests and delves.

That's it. Most of the content that is actually new has NOT been new player friendly. Most of it has been for vet players. Even the world events and world bosses changed from being casual content to vet content.

So much so that the devs are actually beginning to scale it back because casual players have in fact taken issue with all the new content for years now being primarily catered toward vet players.

You must be joking. All content that's been released has had a normal mode, and any player over cp160 (which takes less than two weeks to reach) can run them for gear. Less cp than that if they just want to run it. Same with dungeons, same with arenas. The overwhelming majority of content in this game has and always will be very noob friendly.

Even normal mode on that content isn't for new players, it's for mid-tier players. I have had plenty of people drop group in normal dlc dungeons and who struggle with stuff like NMA.

That's for mid tier players not new or casual players.

You and I have a drastically different definition of casual, in which case.

You're failing to see a very sizable portion of the playerbase in that case. They run around in Overland and crafted gear, decorate houses, pull 15k dps or less, and enjoy questing and random normals. But they really want an option to exclude dlc dungeons from random dungeons, because even on normal those are just too hard. They require help with world bosses and world events.

Most of them are just new. Some of them are dealing with things like bad internet or health problems. They deserve to have fun too. There is currently rewarding and accomplished content for them and everyone else. That shouldn't change.

I am not overlooking that portion of the playerbase, as I have played this game for many years and made it my in game profession to teach said casuals in a large guild tailored to train them. 15k dps or even 10k dps is perfectly fine to run any normal dungeon, trial, or arena with. It is casual content.

If they are training with you, they are already changing over from casual players to mid tier players.