Classic TES Feature: Difficulty Slider
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HailstoSithis
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This classic feature, brought to you by the imaginations of prior Elder Scrolls games developers. Formerly In, TES III: Morrowind, TES IV: Oblivion, TES V: Skyrim(not a slider), and hopefully coming to a current TES-MMO near you!
In TES: Online, we have Craglorn, Public Dungeons, Group Dungeons, Trials, Arenas, and whatever else I haven't included. My point is, we have One Tamriel, where players scale to the content. If we had the ability to be allowed to set the scale ourselves, within UI parameters set by the developers, some might like the incentive of more!
Heck...lock it behind ESO Plus+ I don't mind, I just like idea of this feature. Even if it turned out to be a premium feature.
Possible incentives: Higher stakes! More loot! More gold! '
Edited for fact correction
Edited by HailstoSithis on April 28, 2020 3:31PM In TES: Online, we have Craglorn, Public Dungeons, Group Dungeons, Trials, Arenas, and whatever else I haven't included. My point is, we have One Tamriel, where players scale to the content. If we had the ability to be allowed to set the scale ourselves, within UI parameters set by the developers, some might like the incentive of more!
Heck...lock it behind ESO Plus+ I don't mind, I just like idea of this feature. Even if it turned out to be a premium feature.
Possible incentives: Higher stakes! More loot! More gold! '
Edited for fact correction
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nigh impossible. Mobs cant have different difficulties toward different players at the same time unless the game puts you in your own instance, but then its not an MMORPG anymore.
Edited by ArchMikem on April 28, 2020 8:53PMCP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!13 -
HailstoSithis✭✭✭Nigh impossible. Mobs cant have d8fferent difficulties toward different players at the same time unless the game puts you in your own instance, but then its not an MMORPG anymore.
So the player scales to the content. They could implement into the GUI, a slider like the post suggests and allow you to adjust your personal character scale lower than the game has you scaled to. you would basically be moving the slider the bar up and it would be scaling you negatively. That with more loot incentive, sounds like a win to me.Edited by HailstoSithis on April 28, 2020 3:16PM4 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Add in a permadeath option, too and you got a deal."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."6 -
Sarousse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bring back challenge in the open zones if we want so.
The game was a real challenge when it started, like any elder scrolls game.3 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭There could be a debuff slider to increase the amount of damage you take and decrease the amount of damage you do. Same with healing since healing is really the biggest thing that makes things too easy.
One of the new artifacts coming out, Thrassian Stranglers, increases the damage you take up to 40% as well as increasing Spellpower, but, if you're a stamina character and don't benefit from spellpower (and not using Pelinal's set) you could use that in the meantime to add more difficulty to your adventures. That's what I plan to do, but hopefully something like a debuff slider or even just a static debuff choice could be added.0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If course, the "classic TES difficulty slider" didn't really do much for "difficulty" it just made things bigger bullet sponges.
And doing the same to overland (especially if it was side-by-side with other people at other difficulties) wouldn't make overland any more 'challenging' for dungeon/trial/endgame players, because it wouldn't give any new mechanics. Just, again, make them take more damage to kill. Which, of course, 50k+dps players have in plenty. So instead of "overland mobs die in 2 seconds, where's the challenge", it would be "overland mobs die in 10 seconds, where's the challenge?"
To make overland challenging for the people who plow through VMA and trials, it would need redone mob spawns, with more complex mobs.4 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Really the only way to implement this would be via a configurable debuff in overland that decreases your mitigation, healing received, damage done, regen, etc.
Or just don't enable CP and wear mismatched white gear.Edited by mairwen85 on April 28, 2020 3:43PM1 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HailstoSithis wrote: »
So the player scales to the content. They could implement into the GUI, a slider like the post suggests and allow you to adjust your personal character scale lower than the game has you scaled to. you would basically be moving the slider the bar up and it would be scaling you negatively. That with more loot incentive, sounds like a win to me.
What happens when a player at the highest difficulty setting fights a world boss alongside a player at lowest difficulty setting? Alongside multiple players at the lowest difficulty setting? The boss will go down easy. Does the "high difficulty" player still get his top-tier loot?
This was not a feature of "classic" TES games. It is a feature of all single-player games. It is almost impossible to bring into an MMO unless you split up the players by difficulty, and then you strain the servers with the need for more instances for the various difficulties, and you limit the number of players you see and can join up with.7 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭HailstoSithis wrote: »
So the player scales to the content. They could implement into the GUI, a slider like the post suggests and allow you to adjust your personal character scale lower than the game has you scaled to. you would basically be moving the slider the bar up and it would be scaling you negatively. That with more loot incentive, sounds like a win to me.
You can't add a single player difficulty slide into an MMO and even if you could you shouldn't get more loot out of it. The difficulty is your reward and incentive.Edited by Rave the Histborn on April 28, 2020 4:31PM3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »
You can't add a si gple player difficulty ide into an MMO and even if you could you sho I ldnt get more loot out of it. The difficulty is your reward and incentive.
You will spend more gold and mats on potions+repair if difficulty is high enough. So gold drops should be higher. If you are afraid that a bit of extra gold will ruin economy, at least you should agree on higher XP gains - that won't impact you at all (actually, you will only win because there will be less spellscar/dolmen grinders).1 -
HailstoSithis✭✭✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
What happens when a player at the highest difficulty setting fights a world boss alongside a player at lowest difficulty setting? Alongside multiple players at the lowest difficulty setting? The boss will go down easy. Does the "high difficulty" player still get his top-tier loot?
This was not a feature of "classic" TES games. It is a feature of all single-player games. It is almost impossible to bring into an MMO unless you split up the players by difficulty, and then you strain the servers with the need for more instances for the various difficulties, and you limit the number of players you see and can join up with.
You make a number of good points. The one about the one with different difficulties set. The solution to this isn't an obvious one. I just hope they figure something out to give players the ability to have an opt-in challenging opening world experience.Edited by HailstoSithis on April 28, 2020 4:27PM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »If course, the "classic TES difficulty slider" didn't really do much for "difficulty" it just made things bigger bullet sponges.
And doing the same to overland (especially if it was side-by-side with other people at other difficulties) wouldn't make overland any more 'challenging' for dungeon/trial/endgame players, because it wouldn't give any new mechanics. Just, again, make them take more damage to kill. Which, of course, 50k+dps players have in plenty. So instead of "overland mobs die in 2 seconds, where's the challenge", it would be "overland mobs die in 10 seconds, where's the challenge?"
To make overland challenging for the people who plow through VMA and trials, it would need redone mob spawns, with more complex mobs.
This means you never pushed those sliders far enough. Try Skyrim on legendary and I'll see how far you'll go without special tactics and builds.0 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
You will spend more gold and mats on potions+repair if difficulty is high enough. So gold drops should be higher. If you are afraid that a bit of extra gold will ruin economy, at least you should agree on higher XP gains - that won't impact you at all (actually, you will only win because there will be less spellscar/dolmen grinders).
How would there be less dolmen grinders? The people grinding there to hit max level or max CP wouldn't be in higher difficulty content, that's why they're there in the first place.
Gold drops shouldn't be higher lol If you want higher difficulty then less gold for repairs should be part of it. You should be at such an endgame level for that content that gold/repairs are no problem and it just increases the difficulty.0 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭This just in: The other TES games were all SP, so "sliders"/settings were easy to implement.
Film at 11.5 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »
How would there be less dolmen grinders? The people grinding there to hit max level or max CP wouldn't be in higher difficulty content, that's why they're there in the first place.
Gold drops shouldn't be higher lol If you want higher difficulty then less gold for repairs should be part of it. You should be at such an endgame level for that content that gold/repairs are no problem and it just increases the difficulty.
This doesn't make sense. Why you should be against balanced gold spending for those who want to play overland as classic RPG game and not like visual novel? And XP bonus can be useful to level new toons faster but without boring repetition of spellscar etc.
What surprises me about this threads is that selfish attitude... I may understand that other players don't want increased item drops or doubled resource nodes etc because it will impact trading. But if you'll just have enough gold to compensate for repair/pots what's bad in that?1 -
Noisivid✭✭✭✭I've wanted a toggle to downscale my characters power level for a long time. It would really help with my immershun while just questing about. Melting the big bad boss mob in three seconds is a bit anticlimactic.
either a toggle or a dialogue line at the end of the quest that's more along the lines of "What was everyone worried about? As soon as (insert name of Big Bad Evil Person) saw me they just fell over dead." dunno, I'd prefer the depowering toggle
Just downscale to the equivalent of about 160CP and blue gear. No additional or better loot drops, no extra xp, no extra gold... if better loot drops were a part of this it would probably just lead to more power creep.
toggle on for questing, toggle off once the guild manages to get it together for the trial or PvP that was supposed to start an hour ago. no muss, no fuss, no 3000G to change the CPs around, no carrying around special questing gear.
yeah, guild organization is a different issue and I don't think ZOS can help us out with thatVogon Poet Laureate2 -
Luke_Flamesword✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's good idea - harder difficulty as debuff for player should work and technically there shouldn't be a problem, because it will be affect player only - not enemies. I also saves easy difficulty for newbies. For overland zones(it should work only there) that would be great because many people are tired of too easy content. Quests are good, but with no challenge it's boring - you just read dialogues and run from point A to point B and none can stop you. I want some challenge but in whole overland zone, only World Boss is something that actually can kill you.
It should have better xp and gold multiplier and maybe small chance for better quality of loot - but not too much, we don't want to ruin balance of game.
ZOS - I know, that you have more important stuff to do right now but please consider this for future
Edited by Luke_Flamesword on April 28, 2020 6:12PMPC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is common that in single-player games there is a difficulty slider. I expect there is a solid reason major MMORPGs do not have this feature with open-world questing. As such, pretty much doubt it will happen here.1 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
This doesn't make sense. Why you should be against balanced gold spending for those who want to play overland as classic RPG game and not like visual novel? And XP bonus can be useful to level new toons faster but without boring repetition of spellscar etc.
What surprises me about this threads is that selfish attitude... I may understand that other players don't want increased item drops or doubled resource nodes etc because it will impact trading. But if you'll just have enough gold to compensate for repair/pots what's bad in that?
Why is it that the first go to for everyone that needs a new difficulty immediately talks about the rewards they want out of it first. Sorry bro, part of asking for harder difficulty is actually wanting harder difficulty. If you don't get more gold out of it then you actually have a sense of risk involved with the harder difficulty because it will cost you in the end and it costs what 2k to fully repair your armor from 0. That's acceptable loss for higher difficulty akin to a place like IC.
This also isn't a single player game so if you're looking for a more traditional RPG experience you should check out Daggerfall Unity or Skyrim SE and mod them out. The people looking for higher difficulty don't need the XP to farm either so it wouldn't do anything to help with spellscsr and dolmens. I'm not sure why they'd grant increased xp either.Edited by Rave the Histborn on April 28, 2020 7:25PM0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree with OP and support the idea.
As far as how to achieve it, I can't believe with a bit ingenuity and creativity game devs couldn't figure out a reasonable solution. I love the 'go anywhere at anytime' that Tamriel 1 introduced. More individual player control over difficulty levels is a natural complement to this. From top elite players to those significantly limited by a variety of handicaps, I should think most would welcome the availability of this as an option.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would be nice for everything to be harder but ffs this option shouldn’t be a part of the crown store what’s wrong with some people lol 😂0 -
Luke_Flamesword✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why is it that the first go to for everyone that needs a new difficulty immediately talks about the rewards they want out of it first.
Because it's normal? More challenge, time and effort deserve more rewards. You have veteran dungeons, arenas and trials and they have better rewards because they need more time and skill to do it. Anyway none wants anything special or game changing so I don't understand problem - it will hurt you if someone get twice a gold and xp from a mob when it takes twice a time to kill it? It won't break a balance of game. If ZOS ever introduce this option, it have to make sense for player by encouraging them to use it by little better rewards but with marginal impact for whole game.
PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »
Why is it that the first go to for everyone that needs a new difficulty immediately talks about the rewards they want out of it first. Sorry bro, part of asking for harder difficulty is actually wanting harder difficulty. If you don't get more gold out of it then you actually have a sense of risk involved with the harder difficulty because it will cost you in the end and it costs what 2k to fully repair your armor from 0. That's acceptable loss for higher difficulty akin to a place like IC.
This also isn't a single player game so if you're looking for a more traditional RPG experience you should check out Daggerfall Unity or Skyrim SE and mod them out. The people looking for higher difficulty don't need the XP to farm either so it wouldn't do anything to help with spellscsr and dolmens. I'm not sure why they'd grant increased xp either.
I completed Skyrim 10 times with mods without mods, both on bad and good PC and on PS4, on normal difficulty, on legendary etc. And I was never bored, even on normal. Same for every high-rated RPG I played. In ESO I was bored in first few hours. I was literally ready to delete the game and only fact that I found some public dungeons and FG1, which were quite challenging for solo play for low level character (and had amazing rewards in comparison to overland) returned my interest to the game. I love TES universe, and I'm interested in exploring it's zones for pieces of lore... but now I really can't do that more then for 1 hour per week because those 3-monster groups of idiot with low slash, mage with ice wall and nightblade jumping on you with stun, copy pasted over 15 zones at every 5 meters, that is unbearably tiresome and in the same time pointlessly easy... ugh, simply awful.
You don't need to invent anything new. There are dozens if not hundreds of RPGs created and they have the same formula - higher difficulty - higher reward which brings progression and which made genre so popular. In ESO this works exclusively in group content. In overland there is no progression, no rewards, no challenge.1 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Why is it that the first go to for everyone that needs a new difficulty immediately talks about the rewards they want out of it first. Sorry bro, part of asking for harder difficulty is actually wanting harder difficulty. If you don't get more gold out of it then you actually have a sense of risk involved with the harder difficulty because it will cost you in the end and it costs what 2k to fully repair your armor from 0. That's acceptable loss for higher difficulty akin to a place like IC.
Greater challenge = greater reward. This is foundational to how MMO's work. Following your logic vet dungeons/trials shouldn't drop better gear than their normal versions and vet trials shouldn't drop plunder.
Regardless this whole difficulty slider in an MMO thing isn't really feasible. Even if there were a way to implement it logically, it sounds like it would mean the Insertion of a whole lot of additional calculations into a game whose servers can barely keep up as it is.Edited by Mindcr0w on April 28, 2020 8:06PM1 -
RegriefSoul ShrivenI think instead of a difficulty slider, they can implement a debuff system which decreases stats of players based on the difficulty of the content the players are doing. For example, a 600 CP player would have their CP restricted and their stats become like a level 10 while in questing zones. I mean questing is easy for everyone right? Shouldn't be a problem ...
For normal dungeons, the system would debuff everyone's stats to be similar to that of the lowest level player.
I think this way the system won't make it too hard for players already not wanting anymore challenge. Meanwhile, it would give some challenge to players who've played for a long time. But it's just a small handicap because if you've played the game for a long time, fewer stats won't impose a big challenge on you anyways.
Also, this would solve the issue of people having different difficulty sliders.0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Except it would force the debuff on people that don't want it.Edited by Mindcr0w on April 28, 2020 8:13PM0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There actually have been a couple MMOs I've played that had individual difficulty settings - City of Heroes & Star Trek Online. The difference is that in both of those games, nearly all the combat content is instanced to the player or party. And everything that isn't, ignores your settings.1 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hmm. An idea that is not at Tommy Wiseau level. But, still has 90s rank cheese to it...
ITT:SpoilerEdited by StormeReigns on April 28, 2020 8:18PM0
https://youtu.be/Dn8vzTsnPps