Sancre Tor, this is how easy the game has become.

The Uninvited

Come on ZOS, this quest used to scare people 5 years ago! It was also a quest where you learned to kite, dodge roll and block for incoming damage as if you were running a dungeon solo.

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

I just bow light attacked myself through the whole quest... Health didn't even drop below 24K... Didn't even have to use healing skills...

The Uninvited

And after that quest, the next one you talk to Lyris and she asks you what you will do when all is over.

One of the options is "There's a war to win. I intend to take up the fight in Cyrodiil".

Imagine a new player, feeling all overpowered after doing that quest and stepping into Cyrodiil... They will be in for a big surprise...

idk

I started this game in March 2014 and completed the main quest line twice in less than 2 months time. I never found Sancre Tor scary and I was doing the quests as soon I could so I was at level.

I am not suggesting things have not gotten easier. The power creep in this game has been very real with nothing to reset it.

doomette

The Uninvited wrote: »

One of the options is "There's a war to win. I intend to take up the fight in Cyrodiil".

Imagine a new player, feeling all overpowered after doing that quest and stepping into Cyrodiil... They will be in for a big surprise...

Something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwn37ev1Wo

The Uninvited

idk wrote: »

I started this game in March 2014 and completed the main quest line twice in less than 2 months time. I never found Sancre Tor scary and I was doing the quests as soon I could so I was at level.

I am not suggesting things have not gotten easier. The power creep in this game has been very real with nothing to reset it.

I am not talking about doing the quest at the right level, but it used to take way more tactics like dodge rolling, kiting, blocking and using heals.

Not light attacking only.

The Uninvited

I might have been exaggarating the "scary" part.

The Uninvited

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

idk

The Uninvited wrote: »

show previous quotes

idk wrote: »

I started this game in March 2014 and completed the main quest line twice in less than 2 months time. I never found Sancre Tor scary and I was doing the quests as soon I could so I was at level.

I am not suggesting things have not gotten easier. The power creep in this game has been very real with nothing to reset it.

I am not talking about doing the quest at the right level, but it used to take way more tactics like dodge rolling, kiting, blocking and using heals.

Not light attacking only.

All levels are the right level now. However, those quests used to be set to a specific player level before 1T and I was pointing out I pretty much did them on level back then.

Regardless, I never found them as challenging as you seem to have found them back in the day.

Also, I clearly stated there has been serious power creep. That makes all things easier.

ProfessorKittyhawk

Mannimarco is laughably easy now. But I still have a bit of difficulty with the one before it, at the Abbey of Blades, with the resurrected Yokuden warriors. Those guys seem to hot like trucks and even with health food and shields and such, sometimes I'm all of a sudden on low health or dead. The one that shoots ice seems especially deadly. Why can't ice be that good when WE use it?

kringled_1

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

If you've assigned cp on that character it definitely works.

idk

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

and you would be wrong. CP starts working at lvl 1. The only way CP is not a factor is if you do not spend the points.

Also, this is not about scaling of gear and food and less about CP. Zos has made our characters, their spells and skills, stronger over the years. Power Creep has been real and it effects all levels. Zos does not have a real means to reset the power creep as many games do. Well, not an effective means that would not become a headache for all.

The Uninvited

idk wrote: »

show previous quotes

The Uninvited wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I started this game in March 2014 and completed the main quest line twice in less than 2 months time. I never found Sancre Tor scary and I was doing the quests as soon I could so I was at level.

I am not suggesting things have not gotten easier. The power creep in this game has been very real with nothing to reset it.

I am not talking about doing the quest at the right level, but it used to take way more tactics like dodge rolling, kiting, blocking and using heals.

Not light attacking only.

All levels are the right level now. However, those quests used to be set to a specific player level before 1T and I was pointing out I pretty much did them on level back then.

Regardless, I never found them as challenging as you seem to have found them back in the day.

Also, I clearly stated there has been serious power creep. That makes all things easier.

I already said I might have been exaggarating the "scary" part.

All I'm saying is that it used to take a lot more skill to complete that quest, even at the right level it was back then.

I literally just light attacked and moved by character back a few times, hardly what you can call kiting.

starkerealm

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

If you've spent them, CP applies. The only times CP does not work are in lowbie Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and non-CP campaigns.

The Uninvited wrote: »

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

So, you went in with with a two 6 trait sets which buffed your stats well beyond what would be possible for a newbie level 21, with a food buff, and found the content easier than when you originally encountered it with a mix of non-set gear of varying rarities, no food, and had a much shakier grasp on the content.

The Uninvited

kringled_1 wrote: »

show previous quotes

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

If you've assigned cp on that character it definitely works.

Ah, didn't realize that. Guess it must have worked into the easiness as well.

Ankael07

You know you can always just take off everything you wear right? Even stop using abilities and remove passives?
While youre at it you can use an Essence of Ravage Health potion to put an oblivion DOT on yourself and turn the story mode into something remotely challenging

The Uninvited

starkerealm wrote: »

show previous quotes

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

If you've spent them, CP applies. The only times CP does not work are in lowbie Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and non-CP campaigns.

show previous quotes

The Uninvited wrote: »

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

So, you went in with with a two 6 trait sets which buffed your stats well beyond what would be possible for a newbie level 21, with a food buff, and found the content easier than when you originally encountered it with a mix of non-set gear of varying rarities, no food, and had a much shakier grasp on the content.

True, but still. Those Bone Colossus dudes used to whip my behind back in 2014.

I'll grant you being right about most points, but back then we used crafted sets too. Albeit Ashen Grip and so on. Also, we still had soft caps.

idk

The Uninvited wrote: »

show previous quotes

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

If you've spent them, CP applies. The only times CP does not work are in lowbie Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and non-CP campaigns.

The Uninvited wrote: »

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

So, you went in with with a two 6 trait sets which buffed your stats well beyond what would be possible for a newbie level 21, with a food buff, and found the content easier than when you originally encountered it with a mix of non-set gear of varying rarities, no food, and had a much shakier grasp on the content.

True, but still. Those Bone Colossus dudes used to whip my behind back in 2014.

I'll grant you being right about most points, but back then we used crafted sets too. Albeit Ashen Grip and so on. Also, we still had soft caps.

as a player I expect you have become more skilled in those years since 2014 which plays a role.

But again, power creep has been real and that has affects this too.

The Uninvited

Ankael07 wrote: »

You know you can always just take off everything you wear right? Even stop using abilities and remove passives?
While youre at it you can use an Essence of Ravage Health potion to put an oblivion DOT on yourself and turn the story mode into something remotely challenging

That's not my point. I am just leveling a new character and doing the quests for skill points.

My point is if new players do this quest and notice that the game is relatively easy, it might not be the best way to prepare them for vet dungeons or Cyrodiil.

starkerealm

The Uninvited wrote: »

show previous quotes

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

If you've spent them, CP applies. The only times CP does not work are in lowbie Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and non-CP campaigns.

The Uninvited wrote: »

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

So, you went in with with a two 6 trait sets which buffed your stats well beyond what would be possible for a newbie level 21, with a food buff, and found the content easier than when you originally encountered it with a mix of non-set gear of varying rarities, no food, and had a much shakier grasp on the content.

True, but still. Those Bone Colossus dudes used to whip my behind back in 2014.

I'll grant you being right about most points, but back then we used crafted sets too. Albeit Ashen Grip and so on. Also, we still had soft caps.

Soft caps are irrelevant to the discussion. Those went away with the introduction of champion points, but that also included a complete stat rebalance across the board.

Second, saying Ashen Grip is comparable to Hunding's Rage and NMG is, frankly, laughable.

Third, light and heavy attacks were reworked with Summerset.

Fourth, and most importantly, in 2014 Sancre Tor represented the culmination of your knowledge about how to play ESO. In 2020, you have had six years to improve as a player. Expecting the same level of challenge in content that is aimed at new players who are just getting started is fundamentally unreasonable.

The Uninvited

starkerealm wrote: »

show previous quotes

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Also, I'm below level 50 so if I'm not mistaken CP doesn't work yet. So, this is all due to the level scaling of gear and food.

If you've spent them, CP applies. The only times CP does not work are in lowbie Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and non-CP campaigns.

The Uninvited wrote: »

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

So, you went in with with a two 6 trait sets which buffed your stats well beyond what would be possible for a newbie level 21, with a food buff, and found the content easier than when you originally encountered it with a mix of non-set gear of varying rarities, no food, and had a much shakier grasp on the content.

True, but still. Those Bone Colossus dudes used to whip my behind back in 2014.

I'll grant you being right about most points, but back then we used crafted sets too. Albeit Ashen Grip and so on. Also, we still had soft caps.

Soft caps are irrelevant to the discussion. Those went away with the introduction of champion points, but that also included a complete stat rebalance across the board.

Second, saying Ashen Grip is comparable to Hunding's Rage and NMG is, frankly, laughable.

Third, light and heavy attacks were reworked with Summerset.

Fourth, and most importantly, in 2014 Sancre Tor represented the culmination of your knowledge about how to play ESO. In 2020, you have had six years to improve as a player. Expecting the same level of challenge in content that is aimed at new players who are just getting started is fundamentally unreasonable.

Oh, I realize that. But all I did was literally light attack and move my character around a bit. No dodging, no blocking, no kiting.

I know that I am not the same player as I was back then. I also know about all the other changes the game has been through.

But if you can do that quest by just light attacking, something needs to be adjusted imo.

The Uninvited

If I start a new char again, I will make sure to not allocate my CP and test it again. I'm sure it will be different, but I'm not sure by how much.

Edit: I don't know, I guess I'm just an old sod that misses the being scared of wasps in Craglorn days.

SirAndy

So you started a new character and allocated CP points and crafted yourself some nice gear and then you complain about how "easy" the game is?

You do realize that anyone starting fresh will not have access to either of those things, yes?

The Uninvited

SirAndy wrote: »

So you started a new character and allocated CP points and crafted yourself some nice gear and then you complain about how "easy" the game is?

You do realize that anyone starting fresh will not have access to either of those things, yes?

I know, hence my last comment about CP. But crafted gear could be made easily by guild members or friends early on in the game.

idk

SirAndy wrote: »

So you started a new character and allocated CP points and crafted yourself some nice gear and then you complain about how "easy" the game is?

You do realize that anyone starting fresh will not have access to either of those things, yes?

Good point. I never craft gear for a new character until late levels when do some PvP to get AvA leveled up. I just use whatever drops and do not care about set bonus.

The Uninvited

idk wrote: »

show previous quotes

SirAndy wrote: »

So you started a new character and allocated CP points and crafted yourself some nice gear and then you complain about how "easy" the game is?

You do realize that anyone starting fresh will not have access to either of those things, yes?

Good point. I never craft gear for a new character until late levels when do some PvP to get AvA leveled up. I just use whatever drops and do not care about set bonus.

Also true, but I just craft it for having the training trait to level faster.

Funny though, when I craft Hunding's Rage it says something like "adds 50 weapon damage" but when I equip it on my new character it says "adds 328 weapon damage". And that is part of my point.

idk

The Uninvited wrote: »

show previous quotes

idk wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

So you started a new character and allocated CP points and crafted yourself some nice gear and then you complain about how "easy" the game is?

You do realize that anyone starting fresh will not have access to either of those things, yes?

Good point. I never craft gear for a new character until late levels when do some PvP to get AvA leveled up. I just use whatever drops and do not care about set bonus.

Also true, but I just craft it for having the training trait to level faster.

Funny though, when I craft Hunding's Rage it says something like "adds 50 weapon damage" but when I equip it on my new character it says "adds 328 weapon damage". And that is part of my point.

First off you are crafting a strong set yet complain about how strong the character is.

Second, the difference you are seeing is the old stats from before our characters were bolstered to lvl 50 and when you equip is you are seeing the relevant stats for your characters level in a bolster system. As you level up that weapon damage becomes smaller since the bolster becomes less.

So make your choice. Stronger character and have training trait of not so strong of a character, have to spend a few extra hours leveling and might have to do more than basic attacks to kill something. Do not forget to avoid spending CP.

Neoauspex

The Uninvited wrote: »

And after that quest, the next one you talk to Lyris and she asks you what you will do when all is over.

One of the options is "There's a war to win. I intend to take up the fight in Cyrodiil".

Imagine a new player, feeling all overpowered after doing that quest and stepping into Cyrodiil... They will be in for a big surprise...

That's why PvP is the real end game

The Uninvited

idk wrote: »

show previous quotes

The Uninvited wrote: »

idk wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

So you started a new character and allocated CP points and crafted yourself some nice gear and then you complain about how "easy" the game is?

You do realize that anyone starting fresh will not have access to either of those things, yes?

Good point. I never craft gear for a new character until late levels when do some PvP to get AvA leveled up. I just use whatever drops and do not care about set bonus.

Also true, but I just craft it for having the training trait to level faster.

Funny though, when I craft Hunding's Rage it says something like "adds 50 weapon damage" but when I equip it on my new character it says "adds 328 weapon damage". And that is part of my point.

First off you are crafting a strong set yet complain about how strong the character is.

Second, the difference you are seeing is the old stats from before our characters were bolstered to lvl 50 and when you equip is you are seeing the relevant stats for your characters level in a bolster system. As you level up that weapon damage becomes smaller since the bolster becomes less.

So make your choice. Stronger character and have training trait of not so strong of a character, have to spend a few extra hours leveling and might have to do more than basic attacks to kill something. Do not forget to avoid spending CP.

You don't have to be condescending, I have said you were right before.

But if I see the old stats when crafting and see the new stats when equipping, don't you think it should show the new stats when crafting as well?

Look, I know all too well that crafted gear is better than dropped gear and using a food buff and so on.

But I'm a level 21 and wearing level 16 gear on this char, it just feels a bit "too much" if that's all it takes to complete that quest by just light attacking.

StormeReigns

Non-Issue

jircris11

The Uninvited wrote: »

Come on ZOS, this quest used to scare people 5 years ago! It was also a quest where you learned to kite, dodge roll and block for incoming damage as if you were running a dungeon solo.

I am level 21, using crafted Hunding/s/Nightmother level 16 gear (all training trait) and Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pocket for food. Bow skill line at level 10 when I started the quest.

I just bow light attacked myself through the whole quest... Health didn't even drop below 24K... Didn't even have to use healing skills...

Remember even back then ppl complained that it was "too hard" new age gamers want to have it handed to you, not having to learn mechanics or trial and error. Most if the "too difficult " complainers in my social guild are pvpers who want to rush over content or pvers who simply can't grasp RED IS BAD. I don't think all pve needs to be hard, but some of those final quests are sad.

The Uninvited

If it makes any difference, here's my stats on this character at level 22. It's not like they are sky high or anything. Taking into account the gear scaling of course.