200k AP/H sitting afk at BB mine

Sandman929

How great would it be if they were just all banned. If ZOS just stopped accepting the rationalizations and just cleaned house...the Great Purge of 2017. Sure they let previous exploits slide when they shouldn't have, but this is now. If the hammer dropped this time it would be such a great message moving forward.
PvP populations would drop for a bit, but the new would replace the old eventually because it's a good time and they have a good game. Despite the fact that every gamer seems to think that the game ceases to exist if they personally aren't playing it.

Derra

Drishtan wrote: »

If zos does something about this but does not do anything about all the other exploits. I assure you they WILL HAVE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT on the door within 14 days of it happening!!!!

The stench of fear is so strong on this one i can smell it over the interwebs.

Paul_DA

Aiphaton wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have the list of all players in the EU and NA that gained AP from Black Boot Mine and discussing what actions to take with that information.

Ok let me list some intersting facts:
Theres is a Double Mundus Exploit
Invisible Player which are taking any value out of it
You can Exploit Vmol for SKin and Title
You can exploit Msa and Dsa to make runs from 10-20min
You can exploit widowmaker
You could have exploited Nirn
You was able to perma block cause "go in sneak " and move infinity stam regen player abused that

and now you are considering to punish player which actually didnt exploited something what harm player...
Then consider maybe to fix your GAME first before you gonna try to punish people.
Just for your information you said that misstake is inside the game since launch ?

Im amused

I honestly came to BB mine, I didnt know there was an exploit untill I went there.
I see like this big group of reds and start attacking them. Trying to bomb them as Magica nb, ofc I fail and they **** me. blues start t-bagging me. I come again try to get them this time. then I realized they are actually taking it over and over for the tick.
Now you want to ban everyone who came there ?

Aiphaton

We are looking into getting this fixed ASAP now gang. Also this was not "accidental so some dev can get easy AP" so let's nuke that theory real quick. From everything we can tell, Black Boot Mine always had that server setting for having AP like a Keep instead of a resource and when the new reward values got put in, there you go. Turns out you all could have gotten more AP from Black Boot Mine for the past couple years!
Edited by ZOS_BrianWheeler on 9. Februar 2017 15:17

Again Zenimax,
rom everything we can tell, Black Boot Mine always had that server setting for having AP like a Keep instead of a resource

Wait you see the misstake ?

Sandman929

Paul_DA wrote: »

Aiphaton wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have the list of all players in the EU and NA that gained AP from Black Boot Mine and discussing what actions to take with that information.

Ok let me list some intersting facts:
Theres is a Double Mundus Exploit
Invisible Player which are taking any value out of it
You can Exploit Vmol for SKin and Title
You can exploit Msa and Dsa to make runs from 10-20min
You can exploit widowmaker
You could have exploited Nirn
You was able to perma block cause "go in sneak " and move infinity stam regen player abused that

and now you are considering to punish player which actually didnt exploited something what harm player...
Then consider maybe to fix your GAME first before you gonna try to punish people.
Just for your information you said that misstake is inside the game since launch ?

Im amused

I honestly came to BB mine, I didnt know there was an exploit untill I went there.
I see like this big group of reds and start attacking them. Trying to bomb them as Magica nb, ofc I fail and they **** me. blues start t-bagging me. I come again try to get them this time. then I realized they are actually taking it over and over for the tick.
Now you want to ban everyone who came there ?

If you did that for several hours I'd say "yes".

Chuga_Rei

covenant_merchant wrote: »

If there's no legal framework defining said crime, or if it's gray af and you can come with a plausible defense like roleplaying, you'd laugh at the judge.

These people knew it was broken. I can't download cheat engine and say I was roleplaying an invincible character lol.

Let's see what happens. I would be happy with a AP rollback, I have no desire to see anyone banned but then again I wouldn't feel bad either.

covenant_merchant

Paganini wrote: »

What about just resetting the PVP-rank of all exploiters? I mean, it should be easy to find out who made striking more AP than the normal-playing people..

By the way... Haderus PC/EU today 3PM GMT+1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIjn_zdoiwo&feature=youtu.be

"Look Mom, I'm famous". But beyond that, you Sir are a snitch. And nobody likes snitches.

Crispen_Longbow

Aiphaton wrote: »

I have 3 daughters and they all do the same thing whenever they are in trouble for breaking the rules. They try and bring up something one of their sisters did that was wrong in the past to try and deflect/justify their behavior. I always tell them we aren't talking about what your sister did in the past. We are talking about your current behavior and the consquences of it.

I see so for example you killed someone in Reallife and cause no one talks about it you shouldnt get sued?
But if you steal a apple you should go to Prison right?
Cause thats the crime which is now horrible?

They are two separate things and both should be discussed with the right people at the right time.

So in your example I assume you are the one that got caught stealing the Apple? So I will treat you just like I treat my children. You were caught stealing an apple. You knew stealing was wrong but you did it anyway is that correct? Well stealing has consequences and because you stole you will know have to pay for those consequences. What others have done in the past doesn't excuse your behavior, I hope you can understand this. We love you, but you still broke the rules. You knew what you were doing is wrong, so now you will have to live with the consequences. We are waiting on the Judge/ZoS to determine what those consequences are.

Loicozor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYitjBeRrWk

Pchela

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Aiphaton wrote: »

I have 3 daughters and they all do the same thing whenever they are in trouble for breaking the rules. They try and bring up something one of their sisters did that was wrong in the past to try and deflect/justify their behavior. I always tell them we aren't talking about what your sister did in the past. We are talking about your current behavior and the consquences of it.

I see so for example you killed someone in Reallife and cause no one talks about it you shouldnt get sued?
But if you steal a apple you should go to Prison right?
Cause thats the crime which is now horrible?

They are two separate things and both should be discussed with the right people at the right time.

So in your example I assume you are the one that got caught stealing and Apple? So I will treat you just like I treat my children. You were caught stealing an apple. You knew stealing was wrong but you did it anyway is that correct? Well stealing has consequences and because you stole you will know have to pay for those consequences. What others have done in the past doesn't excuse your behavior, I hope you can understand this. We love you, but you still broke the rules. You knew what you were doing is wrong, so now you will have to live with the consequences. We are waiting on the Judge/ZoS to determine what those consequences are.

100%. Do this with my own son as well. Keep letting 'em get away with stuff... need to put the almighty fist of authority down at sometime and say "NO".

Ackwalan

Derra wrote: »

Drishtan wrote: »

If zos does something about this but does not do anything about all the other exploits. I assure you they WILL HAVE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT on the door within 14 days of it happening!!!!

The stench of fear is so strong on this one i can smell it over the interwebs.

Chuga_Rei

"When Cyrodiil sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with them. They’re bringing exploits. They’re bringing ridiculous AP gains. They’re cheaters. And some, I assume, are good people."


Make cyrodiil great again zos

Derra

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Paganini wrote: »

What about just resetting the PVP-rank of all exploiters? I mean, it should be easy to find out who made striking more AP than the normal-playing people..

By the way... Haderus PC/EU today 3PM GMT+1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIjn_zdoiwo&feature=youtu.be

"Look Mom, I'm famous". But beyond that, you Sir are a snitch. And nobody likes snitches.

I like snitches when they expose exploiting pieces of poo.

Sandman929

covenant_merchant wrote: »

"Look Mom, I'm famous". But beyond that, you Sir are a snitch. And nobody likes snitches.

The Tattle-tale card? Really?

Ghostbane

Dem hands be stuck in the cookie jar, and dey cryen for moar cookies

InvitationNotFound

covenant_merchant wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

well, actually we are back at the discussion what an exploit is and what not.

Aiphaton wrote: »

And for those that have exploited?

You know what a Exploit is ?

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1] Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversia

Its nothing else than flipping a keep over and over again, as i said such stuff was called "Creative Way of farming Ap " from Zenimax so punishing player now would be kinda wierd cause they could have done it also with a keep.

As cited by Aspirion:
In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

Every single player at that resource exactly knew that a resource should give 1.5k and not 6k (and spare me with funny stories like how should we know. bet nobody read the patch notes or flipped any other resource after the update and headed straight to that resource ). Therefore it is obvious that it is a bug and you are gaining more AP then you should. So technically seen, yes, this is exploiting a bug. It may harm leader boards (if anyone cares ) and depending on the amount of AP gained it could lead to people selling more AP items (and therefore getting gold) then they should receive for their action, which may have an impact on economy

And i wouldn't compare it directly with bugged sets / skills as the game unfortunately forces people to equip certain skills / gear while others aren't aware of them being a mess. Joining such an action shown in this thread was every single players free will and they exactly knew what and why they were doing it the whole time.

The only argument that speaks for joining such an action is the lack of punishment from ZOS. And as we all know, they don't care at all. So i guess, feel free to keep on flipping flags at that resource

What about people like me, who merely enjoy some War-themed roleplay with their friends ?

lol, i love how people always try to find excuses instead of being honest about how they *** up and got caught.

Unfortunately, you didn't really understand what I wrote. I wasn't saying that the flipping of resources is an exploit (of course it should be addressed). It was about 6k instead of 1.5k ticks. this has nothing to do with role playing at all. or does role playing now allow abusing bugs (or "exploiting" to use the appropriate word)?

Ernest145

The fact that this resource gives the same ap for taking a keep means its obviously bugged. It is not like people were doing it to an average resource that gives 1.5k ap, they knew it was a bug and continued to abuse it. I don't think a perma ban is the right way to go since zos allowed this to happen, but something should be done.

Everybody knows zos has been bad at enforcing rules in the past but doesn't mean they can't start now.

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

ZoS has the information to identify which players clearly exploited this bug. It wouldn't be hard to determine if a player was exploiting and to what degree.

Account____________AP Gain_____________Flag Capture
Player 1____________10,200,000__________1700
Player 2_____________9,900,000__________1650
Player 3_____________9,600,000__________1600
Player 4_____________9,000,000__________1500
Player 5_____________6,750,000__________1125
Player 6_____________5,730,000__________955
Player 7_____________5,610,000__________935
Player 8_____________5,580,000__________930
Player 9_____________5,460,000__________910
Player 10____________5,400,000__________900
Player 75____________1,572,000__________262
Player 76____________1,566,000__________261
Player 77____________1,560,000__________260
Player 78____________1,500,000__________250
Player 500___________12,000_____________2
Player 501___________12,000_____________2
Player 1235__________6,000______________1
Player 1236__________6,000______________1

I have 3 daughters and they all do the same thing whenever they are in trouble for breaking the rules. They try and bring up something one of their sisters did that was wrong in the past to try and deflect/justify their behavior. I always tell them we aren't talking about what your sister did in the past. We are talking about your current behavior and the consquences of it.

Clearly players knew each resource is only suppose to give X amount of AP. When they found a resource that was bugged and started to exploit that bug is where their behavior/actions will now have consequences. It doesn't matter what bug exploits have been done by so and so in the past we are talking about this specific exploit and what should be done about it.

^^^^

Aiphaton

nullum crimen, nulla poena sine lege
Just to think about it
I saw no law which didnt allowed to switch flags or even Keeps...

InvitationNotFound

Aiphaton wrote: »

nullum crimen, nulla poena sine lege
Just to think about it
I saw no law which didnt allowed to switch flags or even Keeps...

that's cute

pmn100b16_ESO

They're still at it on Haderus EU. I guess they think the punishment will be insignificant.

KisoValley

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Paganini wrote: »

What about just resetting the PVP-rank of all exploiters? I mean, it should be easy to find out who made striking more AP than the normal-playing people..

By the way... Haderus PC/EU today 3PM GMT+1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIjn_zdoiwo&feature=youtu.be

"Look Mom, I'm famous". But beyond that, you Sir are a snitch. And nobody likes snitches.

It's okay. He was actually flipping BB mine this morning when reds/yellows were flipping.

Guess he's hoping by snitching on others he'll get away with the fact he was doing it himself xD

zyk

This thread is kind of funny. I see players who have a history of playing with those who shamelessly glitch or abuse bugs waving pitchforks. This includes emp traders and AP boosters. This is an interesting kind of elitism. "You can only exploit AP if you're not a pleb!"

ishilb14_ESO

Zander98

Yes there have been a lot of exploits in this games history. The possible difference in this one...
Do those involved have plausible deniability? It was entirely possible to accidentally get two mundus's or get host bark stuck on your ton....but could you accidentally flip a resource back and forth a few hours?
And I am aware most exploits have been consciously done. But they had plausible deniability.
I'm not necessarily arguing for either side, but that could make it actionable by ZoS.

Crispen_Longbow

Aiphaton wrote: »

nullum crimen, nulla poena sine lege
Just to think about it
I saw no law which didnt allowed to switch flags or even Keeps...

This is a great example of why anyone below that captured that resource a few times should not be penalized in anyway as they were only doing what the games terms and service are. In the example below Players 500 through 1236 only capture it once or twice as that's what normal game-play would be.

The ones that captured it over and over discovered a bug and exploited it which is in breach of contract for ZoS T&Cs. They have a catch-all phrase that doesn't allow us to do anything that is not permitted by ZoS. ZoS clearly stated each resource should only give 1500 base AP. Anything else is a bug and the exploitation of that bug breaks the T&Cs you agreed to when you signed up to play.

Account____________AP Gain_____________Flag Capture
Player 1____________10,200,000__________1700
Player 2_____________9,900,000__________1650
Player 3_____________9,600,000__________1600
Player 4_____________9,000,000__________1500
Player 5_____________6,750,000__________1125
Player 6_____________5,730,000__________955
Player 7_____________5,610,000__________935
Player 8_____________5,580,000__________930
Player 9_____________5,460,000__________910
Player 10____________5,400,000__________900
Player 75____________1,572,000__________262
Player 76____________1,566,000__________261
Player 77____________1,560,000__________260
Player 78____________1,500,000__________250
Player 500___________12,000_____________2
Player 501___________12,000_____________2
Player 1235__________6,000______________1
Player 1236__________6,000______________1

Baobab_Theoldtree

Zos don't ban them, Give them a icon above their characters head with the text, SHAME

Anazasi

Here are the facts:

ZOS admitted to an error in coding 2 years ago regarding this particular resource.

Here is the objective of the game:
To control objectives for your faction in order to gain pts for your faction at each score evaluation.

Here is the reality:
It doesn't matter what ZOS does the mistake was admitted and blame has been laid.

The player have acted in accordance with the objectives of the map and have not altered cheated or exploited any part of the coding in order to gain an advantage over any other player.

There can be no action taken against the players when ZOS was made aware of the bug on February 7th by the players via their own bug forum.

If ZOS takes adverse action against any player it would be a public relations nightmare for ZOS and there share holders.

What ZOS should have done was hot fix the error immediately.

Precedence for this type of activity was set when this occurred during the release of the CP system. ZOS made the error and took weeks to correct and punished no one nor did they roll back any of the CP that had been earned which by the way clearly gave advantage to many players hence why the gated CP system was introduced.

There is nothing more to discuss other than when the hotfix will be released.

Sandman929

Anazasi wrote: »

Here are the facts:

ZOS admitted to an error in coding 2 years ago regarding this particular resource.

Here is the objective of the game:
To control objectives for your faction in order to gain pts for your faction at each score evaluation.

Here is the reality:
It doesn't matter what ZOS does the mistake was admitted and blame has been laid.

The player have acted in accordance with the objectives of the map and have not altered cheated or exploited any part of the coding in order to gain an advantage over any other player.

There can be no action taken against the players when ZOS was made aware of the bug on February 7th by the players via their own bug forum.

If ZOS takes adverse action against any player it would be a public relations nightmare for ZOS and there share holders.

What ZOS should have done was hot fix the error immediately.

Precedence for this type of activity was set when this occurred during the release of the CP system. ZOS made the error and took weeks to correct and punished no one nor did they roll back any of the CP that had been earned which by the way clearly gave advantage to many players hence why the gated CP system was introduced.

There is nothing more to discuss other than when the hotfix will be released.

That's a lot of writing to try to control what you can't control. They'll do as they see fit.

Kilandros

lol at Whipz in panic mode

runagate

Permaban them all. Imagine a Cyrodiil in which this wasn't the accepted norm. It's gone on way too long. Then go back and make sure to ban everyone who exploited all the other bugs listed as self-justification as well.