Maintenance for the week of December 30:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 30
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Miat's PVP alerts.
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SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
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Also, you can make the attack alert almost nonexistent by NOT focus targetting the person you are going to attack while you wind up the heavy attack. Only target them at the last possible moment when you're ready to release the attack, and they get around 400-500ms (1/2 second) warning at best.
They will not get the notification at all:) The pop up is ONLY for a channeled attack to start. Ambush is a channel as well, btw. That's why it is shown.
Let me remind everybody that the addon's purpose never was to prevent the ganks. It was to make ganks harder.
Too bad nobody reminded you, that "balancing" game to your vision is not really your job or right. Tho you deserve some applause for making it public a bringing this obvious API issue to light.12 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭This add-on is just a ESO version of the Spy add-on for WoW essentially. Spy made for interesting World PvP on WoW, because stealthers knew they could be caught before-hand, but if they acted KNOWING that, their gank still worked.
Or Odin's Eye in DAoC. Absolutely wrecked the pvp in that game until the datastream was encrypted.This addon crosses the line, in my opinion. There's a difference between convenience addons and the ones that give a clear advantage in PvP. This is the latter. I would never use something like this, and knowing that many people in PvP will be is pretty discouraging.
I'm sure there are other "things" players are doing in PvP which are probably worse. But as far as supported addons go, I do hope ZOS adjusts the API to make things like this impossible.
I'm curious to know whj you think this addon crosses the line.
Simple. Because it gives players information that they clearly were never intended to see.
I'll turn the question around on you:
How do you justify an addon that notifies me about someone who I am otherwise unaware of going into stealth?
This is how:ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?
At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.
I don't give two care's about principles. If its allowed its allowed. They may change API calls in the future which will render parts of the addon inert, and I could care less about that too.
I'm not going to follow your idea of the rules. Screw your idea. Who the hell are you? No seriously, who the hell do you think you are? Not being mean or derogatory, just think about what you are saying and how much impact you actually have on others.
You saying that we shouldn't use this addon because its bad, is the same thing as someone saying we shouldn't use proc sets because they're 'unfair'. I could care less what players think is unfair. I care about what the moderators think. They are the ones who enforce the rules. They are the one's who's opinion ACTUALLY matter.
No amount of guilt tripping, insults, disparagement, or peer pressure from you or others like you will change my opinion or others' opinions. That's just a simple fact. Those who want the features of this addon will use it. Those who want to stick to their principles will either suck it up and use the addon, disadvantage themselves by not using it, stop PVPing, or quit entirely.
They aren't going to render parts or the whole addon inert because you voiced it needed to be done. They really won't They already have a vision to what sort of things an addon can be used for. Look at that post by the ZOS mod explaining how it works. They know this addon inside and out. They know what it does, what it can be used for, and the implications. They've already decided what they will do to it. That will be probably in the next update.
They can't simply ban the addon. Do you know how easy it is to recreate the addon to bypass such a 'banned' feature? The difference is, the addon author won't put it to the public. Guilds with decent LUA coders (and LUA isn't hard to code for) will make addons of their own to exploit these features.
They have to adjust the API calls. This could break legitimate addons. So while we'll likely see some API methods squelched, you won't see all of it. This addon is pandoras box. We're stuck with a large portion of it. It will be nerfed. Don't get me wrong, it IS a concern for the developers. They will put forth fixes.
But don't think for an instant that it will be removed entirely.
It would be trivially easy for zos to remove the events this addon relies on from the api. And I hope they do.
Fwiw I don't play a stealth toon in pvp. I use kags, julianos, and willpower yet still manage to kill more than I die. I don't care too much about proc sets. If other people want to use them, more power to em.
To answer your question, I'm nobody special. Just a man with a shred of integrity.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »
Also, you can make the attack alert almost nonexistent by NOT focus targetting the person you are going to attack while you wind up the heavy attack. Only target them at the last possible moment when you're ready to release the attack, and they get around 400-500ms (1/2 second) warning at best.
They will not get the notification at all:) The pop up is ONLY for a channeled attack to start. Ambush is a channel as well, btw. That's why it is shown.
Let me remind everybody that the addon's purpose never was to prevent the ganks. It was to make ganks harder.
Too bad nobody reminded you, that "balancing" game to your vision is not really your job or right. Tho you deserve some applause for making it public a bringing this obvious API issue to light.
it was @Godspeed whom started this thread and brought the add-on to light. it is him whom we should thank.4 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »
100% of those approving this addon are destro ulti zergs or zerg wannabes who exploit destro ulti, radiant destruction, unpurgeable curse, IG monster set, when they know it's broken. Also, they endorse cheating and should be suspended/banned/ put into jail for 20 years. Therefore 100% of these cheaters have double standards, need third wheel on their PvP pony bike and are somewhat invalid irl.99% of those raging about this are stealthers, and 99% of those stealthers exploit the viper set when they know it's broken. Therefore 99% of this thread is a double standard and invald.
Tanks do not fear gankers.
Real sorcs do not fear gankers.
Gankers are most feared by other gankers imho. And complete noobs. Noobs are afraid of gankers.
The destro ult is working as it was designed.
Radiant destruction has always worked as it was designed.
Curses work as designed.
Vipers set - does not work as designed, and ALL the gankers use it, so in reality it's the gankers who are exploiting a broken mechanic.
from melee - work as intendeed, just enchents like poison or disease damage on bows are working as melee attack aslo activated by bow on range, this is not working as intendeed because it procing viper from range which never should be albe to work
at all you forgot about infernal guardian which is exploiting 24/7 by every shieldstacker to just reveal anyone in hide, he can be out of combat to get hit, hitting by walls, floors by everything, this sets is just ignoring everything to just hit anyone close, this is bugged like viper procing on bow
and destro ult is now more working as intendeed from not much long time when ZOS finally added red ring to this + animation finally doesnt dissaper while going to cloak or mist form0 -
Digerati✭✭✭✭I think a lot of people need to go read the comment from the ZOS staffer that explains what the addon is and isn't capable of...
The stealth detection is shoddy. It will not detect players who are already in stealth. It will only tell you if they've gone into stealth while in your detection range. It will not tell you that the stealther is now 1000 miles away and you don't need to worry about him anymore.
This addon provides intel but it's not exactly reliable intel.1 -
Hurika✭✭✭✭Seeing the dps of others in your group was possible but not desired and removed. Do you really think seeing a preemptive warning about an upcoming attack from a hidden enemy is desired even though possible?
When I go through areas where gankers like to hide I slot magelight. Some people it seems want the game to play for them instead of thinking.3 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seeing the dps of others in your group was possible but not desired and removed. Do you really think seeing a preemptive warning about an upcoming attack from a hidden enemy is desired even though possible?
This!
Also, as much as I dislike proc-gank playstyle, in my opinion, no addon should be able make certain playstyles (stealth, in this case) more difficult. And allowing this addon while disabling Group Damage is a great example of double standarts.I mean, of course, a good pvper is always paying attention to their surroundings... But a good pver can estimate group dps without any addons as well.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU6 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm surprised at the number of people who hate gank builds. They are literally the squishiest things on the planet. I absolutely love when they target me because 19 out of 20 times they fail and can't get away from me with my infernal guardian, radiant magelight and sorc curse.
The most common time for me to die from a gank build is generally when I'm already getting overwhelmed by numbers and a nb jumps in and procbombs me with viper+velidreth for 15k.Edited by Drummerx04 on December 21, 2016 6:23AMPC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter2 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drummerx04 wrote: »I'm surprised at the number of people who hate gank builds. They are literally the squishiest things on the planet. I absolutely love when they target me because 19 out of 20 times they fail and can't get away from me with my infernal guardian, radiant magelight and sorc curse.
The most common time for me to die from a gank build is generally when I'm already getting overwhelmed by numbers and a nb jumps in and procbombs me with viper+velidreth for 15k.
Thats not the playstyle (for me anyway), its an amount of exploiting in it (using double proc bug for example).
And imo being able to oneshot anyone without having a fight has no place in mmo. Its just my personal opinion though, but with all the horse simulator that Cyrodiil is, I see it as a design flaw.Edited by LadyNalcarya on December 21, 2016 6:29AMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU6 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »
100% of those approving this addon are destro ulti zergs or zerg wannabes who exploit destro ulti, radiant destruction, unpurgeable curse, IG monster set, when they know it's broken. Also, they endorse cheating and should be suspended/banned/ put into jail for 20 years. Therefore 100% of these cheaters have double standards, need third wheel on their PvP pony bike and are somewhat invalid irl.99% of those raging about this are stealthers, and 99% of those stealthers exploit the viper set when they know it's broken. Therefore 99% of this thread is a double standard and invald.
Tanks do not fear gankers.
Real sorcs do not fear gankers.
Gankers are most feared by other gankers imho. And complete noobs. Noobs are afraid of gankers.
The destro ult is working as it was designed.
Radiant destruction has always worked as it was designed.
Curses work as designed.
Vipers set - does not work as designed, and ALL the gankers use it, so in reality it's the gankers who are exploiting a broken mechanic.
The destro ulti is complete bs that turned many ppl to be gankers in the first place.
Radiant destruction is bs from day 1, cheap spammable skill that can do 20k+ damage, also heavy utilized by zergs.
Curse was purgeable before.
Viper is bs and it is pretty much the only way for a medium armor user to even compete with a heavy armor one. And to even try that he is forced to start the battle from stealth.
Game that is already heavy zerg friendly got another bs addon to ruin any diversity we might have left.
No more hiding in a keep your alliance just lost, no more disturbing the enemy's flow to the battlefield with a 2-3 gankers.
No more tent burning. Just zergs.
I don't know what is Zos doing by not banning this addon from the game. If you ask me, I would ban its creator too.2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.
What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,
Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!
Smh...
Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...
Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.
Core issue because people use instagib proc sets, because you lack any defense or because you just like to run alone?
Both stealth and ganking arent issue anymore snipers in FPS games or gankers in MOBA games are.
The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build).What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.
What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,
Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!
Smh...
Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...
Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.
Stealthganking a core issue? Since when? In 10hrs of gameplay I might get ganked 1-2 times max and thats mostly by 2+ ppl in sinc. Much worse then gankers imo are "God mode" DKs and Templars that can facetank 10 ppl and still burst squishy players in couple of sec. Stealthganking core issue......lol
Maybe if you did something else than zergsurfing you might get ganked from stealth more often.
If i just stick to my factions zerg (which i do more and more often nowadays) i don´t get ganked often. If at all.
Ironically i stick to my factions zergs because if i don´t the only thing i encounter is gankblades and since the addition of proccsets even mediocre players have the chance to simply oneshot me from invisibility.
"The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build)."
Radiant Magelight, Defensive Rune (on sorcerer). Either or both of these will prevent you from getting oneshot, and buy you enough time to cast your shields and get ready to fight. Though if you're in the squishiest armor type, shouldn't you be vulnerable to getting hit hard? I'm saying this as somebody who mains magicka, running 5 light on most of my builds.
Funny enough both don´t save you against a proccgank with => heavybow, incap + viper, veli/selene, poisons.
The enemy is hit by defensive rune when everything has fired - given proper execution.
Also radiant is not an option as i pve on my char.
I´m fine with getting hit hard. I just don´t think instantkills from invisibility should be possible. And so far i´ve never heared a reason why they should be. They´re the epitome of unfun gameplay.
Edit: If you want an advantage from you sneak attack - remove the dmg bonus and stun and instead implement a 10s 50% cost increase to magica and stamina on the victim.
That´s a tremendous advantage and still promotes a fight after the attack instead of instant death.
Defensive Rune will 100% save you from a procgank, they'll be CCed after the heavy bow attack goes off and won't be able to complete their combo. There's no way to "delay" the CC until after you've completed your combo AFAIK.
As for Radiant, if it's there and you don't choose to take advantage of it, that's on you. It's pretty cheap to swap morphs.
The problem is if properly executed the bow attack will hit after the incap strike (no ambush) when the heavy bow is canceled with incap - now you just need proccluck.
I don´t agree that having to respec morphs two times a day is cheap - nor is it comfortable to execute. Also having to slot a specific skill that´s otherwise useless should in my opinion not exist in a game only offering 10 skillslots (especially as only radiant won´t save me - you´d need radiant + defensive rune - which is 20% of your skillslots just to counter a mechanic that should not exist in the first place).sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.
What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,
Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!
Smh...
Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...
Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.
Core issue because people use instagib proc sets, because you lack any defense or because you just like to run alone?
Both stealth and ganking arent issue anymore snipers in FPS games or gankers in MOBA games are.
The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build).
For a moment i will ignore fact that there should not be any defense for paper characters to ever survive 1v1 gank from maxDMG character.
The real problem you dont see, that this "problem" of yours goes both ways. While there is no defense against getting instagibbed as paper characters, there also is no offense (lets also ignore overpowered proc sets for a moment, they are obvious issue in normal duel alone) for gankers to take down tanky characters.
You say you want "defense" against getting instagibbed, while you are perfectly aware there is nothing the gankers get from not insta killing you. You pop your little shield and heals and instantly reset the fight and look for "fair" duel (im still ignoring the overpoweness of proc sets, thats issue for another topic) while having all the good cards to win such engagement.
Now back to the first sentence. Why you feel entitled to having defense by playing as paper (with titanium cover once spooked) against people that play as razor. You probably kill all those "razor" players once they are out of stealth, usually with friends helping you. So why is your mind telling you, you are entitled to have defense for the only situation where are you at your weakest, while gankers are their strongest form.
There are many issues with stealth, ganking and nightblades overall. But lets stop pretending they are overpowered. They are sharks in deep sea, and you are swimming there in nothing but your swim suit while others are aboard aircraft carriers or submarines and all important battles are on the ground.
I just want actual fights to happen. I can not instantly kill people. People can always see me. That´s the difference and it´s a big one.
It should not be possible to instantly kill people from invisibility. There is no way to justify that in a pvp game. It´s idiocy. It´s impossible to create fun gameplay out that situation. Therefor the situation should not occur.
So you can argue all you want. My statement is instantkills should not be possible (especially from invisibility) and i don´t think you or anyone else can justify why they should be.
Edit: If you think uncounterable instantkills are somehow a good thing to have in a game don´t bother to reply. I don´t think there is any sense in arguing in that case.
These instakills are counterable, (harder now with proc sets). You just choose not to counter it. If you're running around alone with light divines light armor you arent allowed to have chance to react. Not to mention if your reaction would be heal and shield and instantly have better defense than ganker, while completly negating effect (damage dealt) of his gank.
I am running around as nightblade in medium armor (5x impen) with radiant magelight and vampire passives and it even feels unfair I get to survive almost every gank.
Btw every fast paced PVP game ever has some mechanic that allows instakilling unaware enemies. Stop bringing out argument if you lack any experience. *** TF2 had whole class dedicated to instakill players.
They are not counterable in light armor while still retaining an effective build.
I´m running 2500impen 24k health. Yet a properly executed proccgank will still oneshot me without time to react.
Edit: Why am i even replying to someone comparing an mmo to a team based shooter? Apples and coconuts i guess.
Derra run Pirates......Sypher said it was pretty powerful in PvP so I decided to try it and its bloody night and day with that Monster Set
Derra is right. Pirates set is a 6% proc chance on a one shot kill. That's not going to save you from the other 94% of ganks, it only helps when you're under pressure with shields up already.
What's wrong is a fundamentally incompetent game design problem: Shadows of the Hist handed nuclear weapons to all of the invisible shark players. What the hell do you expect those people to do with them? Why in the world does a spammable attack out of stealth in PVP stun the victim, deal way increased damage, activate poisons, and then cascade a mountain of proc damage? Were ZOS devs not paying attention to this at all?
Take off the stun at least. Give people a chance to get up and fight back. Hand nightblades better defense instead so that the fight is actually two sided. People complain about shield stacking, but I wouldn't need it if I could actually get up off the floor half of the time.
Pirates isn't for surviving the one shot kill (though if it procs you're pretty much going to survive it)
Defensive Rune handles that problem, or just having your shields up...Soon as it Procs though you're pretty much going to face tank anything a lot of stuff....
I also find it surprising you guys are acting like the one shots are new or something in this game?
If you were a vampire just a few patches ago I could flat out one shot you 100% of the time.
I was never a vampire, so there's that. Vampires need to be nerfed into the ground, because there is a problem when 90% of Cyrodiil is running stage four with no real downside.
Ethics aside. I am not saying that people SHOULD run this mod.
However, there is a REASON someone took the time and energy to create this mod. That reason is stealth. It's out of control. The damage is too high. The stun is ridiculous. The proc sets only make it worse.
Since ZOS is too ignorant or busy (I assume, busy playing a gankblade) to fix the problem, someone did it for them.
It should be patched out, along with half the benefits of stealth attacks and proc sets.
No real upside to beinf a vamp, either. And there is a downside: increased damage from fire.
Free magicka regen
Mist form
Undead passive and a third less damage when low on health
Faster movement in stealth
Bats
In exchange, you take 20% more fire damage. Which you just mitigate with extra points into elemental defender.
The weaknessss don't weigh up to the strengths, which is why EVERYONE runs it. Lets be honest.
Not true.
There is one reason and one reason alone that I'm a vampire: because ZoS in its infinite wisdom has decided that only stamina characters are to have any mobility that is a root/snarefest without any cooldowns.
Or do you think I like the fact the hours I spent on the chartcer xreation screen are wasted and that I look like Casper the Friendly ghost whenever a new costume is available?
I'll grant you that it's pretty miserable for magicka if you don't have streak or shuffle. That's a problem with snares not respecting an immunity timer or immovable. That needs to be fixed.
On the other hand we have absolutely everyone popping destro ults, jumping into mist form, and then spamming mist form for 10 minutes so they don't die to the remaining angry mob they jumped in the middle of. It's stupid.
Outside of the destro ult that kills everyone, you get slightly more damage from dawnbreaker. That's it. That's not balanced against the benefits, it's a simple choice every dummy is going to make, and already has.
There are a million things we can do to de-fang cyrodiil, and it needs to start next patch:
30% more damage from fire, undead passive does not count versus fire.
Bring back evil hunter extra damage to undead and daedra, at least 10 to 15%.
Put snares on the same timer as CC.
Edited by Minalan on December 21, 2016 9:00AM2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think a lot of people need to go read the comment from the ZOS staffer that explains what the addon is and isn't capable of...
The stealth detection is shoddy. It will not detect players who are already in stealth. It will only tell you if they've gone into stealth while in your detection range. It will not tell you that the stealther is now 1000 miles away and you don't need to worry about him anymore.
This addon provides intel but it's not exactly reliable intel.
yeah, as I wrote ite before on my example.... was sneaking behind enemy player when they was attacking my keep, wanted to gang some from back to help with def but meh...I have noone ganged and at all I had no any chance to try gang because when I just was near without leaving hide they instanly was informed about me in hide near and surpise for me! someone used det pot and just rekt me because addon informed him about me in stealth near, I was no any chance to def because I was just deprived my hide as squishy ganger and thne nuked by just 2 players, 1 nb who casted on my piercing mark and spamming like *** snipe with viper and 1 sorc spamming on my streak with stunning etc
if not this addon then someone will not know about me and will not use this det pot and I will have chance to gang someone but no, but knowing about something which you shouldnt know because is invisible isnt a cheat for ZO$0 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »
100% of those approving this addon are destro ulti zergs or zerg wannabes who exploit destro ulti, radiant destruction, unpurgeable curse, IG monster set, when they know it's broken. Also, they endorse cheating and should be suspended/banned/ put into jail for 20 years. Therefore 100% of these cheaters have double standards, need third wheel on their PvP pony bike and are somewhat invalid irl.99% of those raging about this are stealthers, and 99% of those stealthers exploit the viper set when they know it's broken. Therefore 99% of this thread is a double standard and invald.
Tanks do not fear gankers.
Real sorcs do not fear gankers.
Gankers are most feared by other gankers imho. And complete noobs. Noobs are afraid of gankers.
The destro ult is working as it was designed.
Radiant destruction has always worked as it was designed.
Curses work as designed.
Vipers set - does not work as designed, and ALL the gankers use it, so in reality it's the gankers who are exploiting a broken mechanic.
The destro ulti is complete bs that turned many ppl to be gankers in the first place.
Radiant destruction is bs from day 1, cheap spammable skill that can do 20k+ damage, also heavy utilized by zergs.
Curse was purgeable before.
Viper is bs and it is pretty much the only way for a medium armor user to even compete with a heavy armor one. And to even try that he is forced to start the battle from stealth.
Game that is already heavy zerg friendly got another bs addon to ruin any diversity we might have left.
No more hiding in a keep your alliance just lost, no more disturbing the enemy's flow to the battlefield with a 2-3 gankers.
No more tent burning. Just zergs.
I don't know what is Zos doing by not banning this addon from the game. If you ask me, I would ban its creator too.
This is basically an "anything I die from is bs" post.Edited by Maikon on December 21, 2016 12:35PM0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon was brought to our attention earlier in the week, and we’ve been running some internal tests on it to gauge functionality and impact. We are still evaluating this addon, and may make changes to the game’s API as a result. Here’s an explanation of how it works, and what it does and doesn’t do:
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon is built upon actions done by players that the combat log records. This includes sprinting, casting an ability, weapon swapping, drinking a potion, stealthing, etc. If a player executes any of those actions, basic messages are sent to the server and clients. This mod hooks into those notifications and filters them to give information about who is in the area. That info is then turned into either a KOS list determined by the player, a stealthier list, or simply an incremental value of players in the area (all are a rough estimation.)
The KOS list, specifically, is simply another layer on top of the above options, where the addon looks for specific players that you can choose to add to a list. When those players perform an action within your existing area of detection, you will be notified that they are in the area. You are not provided info on exactly where they are. Here are a few specific examples:- If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
- If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
- If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).
Lastly this addon adds a kill spam list which shows you when someone has died in your existing area of detection, and to what ability. When you first get these messages, it simply says “Someone has died to Dark Flare.” When you start to get more information on the players around you, it adds that player name to the Saved Variables file for PVPAlerts.lua, then starts to add that information into your UI while playing.
Note that in all the above examples, you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position.
We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.
Hi @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ,
Speaking as an addon author who works directly with this aspect of the API (Srendarr buff/debuff/proc tracking), I thought I would give my 2 Septims.
The current EVENT_COMBAT_EVENT is essential and more or less does what it does without disrupting intended functionality. It definitely (obviously) needs to stay, but what should absolutely be hidden from the API is the events related to other players entering/exiting stealth, or any information related to that (proximity, name, etc.).
I get that people like to stack the deck, but if you think about it honestly it isn't very honorable. It goes against the whole spirit of stealth play in Cyrodiil to get any information about this beyond what your actual EYES can tell you. I don't personally think we need a "Psijic Spidey Senses" or "Eyes in the Back of your Head" mod.
Other than that everything is does seems mostly fine.
Edited by Phinix1 on December 21, 2016 1:39PM16 -
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just remove Sneak & problem solved :>
Edit: If I go full class-cannon in 7 light, full damage with no shields up: No, I do not expect to survive a full wd-stacked gank with viper/Veli.
However. If I'm in heavy armour & with 25k HP+, I should *not* be instagibbed from stealth. :>Edited by Lieblingsjunge on December 21, 2016 1:55PMIgnorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
PC - EU.
Lieblingsjunge(AD) - Racechanged Argonian :< | AR 50 - No double AP or Bleakers involved |
Sits-On-Cacti(DC) - Problem?
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My title: The Maneater, Destroyer of Maneuvers, Bane of Potatoes, she who devours them, The Black Hole, the humorless, first of her name.2 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lots of people are doing their best to ignore this, by gripping tightly to how the addon will not warn you if you enter an area with a person already in stealth.
Look at the list of things that the addon will get notified about: drinking a potion and weapon swap are two examples Jess gave.
So you are riding along, enter a hidden ganker's kill zone, the ganker weapon swaps and drinks a potion, which notifies you that the ganker is in the area.
Its not the big things that make the ganker's attack unravel, it's the little things. Like switching from the main bar to the bow bar to snipe, except the target got told about a person nearby before the snipe even started.
Xbox NA3 -
Hurika✭✭✭✭The discussion here is about an addon that removes the ability for a player to get a jump on another player and catch them off guard to get an advantage. This addon in essence removes that aspect of the game.
Getting 1 shot is a discussion around your build, the enemies build, mitigation, proc sets etc and how to balance them. Many many players have no problem surviving these things but if they need addressing it should be done by zos and applied evenly to all players and put everyone on a level playing field with regards to the tactic of using the element of surprise.
The addon is one players attempt to balance the game as he sees fit by removing/hindering a valid tactic because of the other problems in the game or because he doesn't want others get a jump on him and an advantage or is unwilling to take mitigation steps. Not agreeing with how a mechanic works doesn't mean you should alter the developers intended implementation of the mechanic. Though the ability to do so shouldn't exist in the first place.
Whether someone has an advantage should be decided by tactics used and skill of the player. Not an addon.5 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭
I don't know what is Zos doing by not banning this addon from the game. If you ask me, I would ban its creator too.
Banning the addon author for using a function in the API is a stretch. 100% disagree that the author should be banned (or any action taken against users of the addon for that matter.)
zos needs to clean up the api though.
4 -
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon was brought to our attention earlier in the week, and we’ve been running some internal tests on it to gauge functionality and impact. We are still evaluating this addon, and may make changes to the game’s API as a result. Here’s an explanation of how it works, and what it does and doesn’t do:
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon is built upon actions done by players that the combat log records. This includes sprinting, casting an ability, weapon swapping, drinking a potion, stealthing, etc. If a player executes any of those actions, basic messages are sent to the server and clients. This mod hooks into those notifications and filters them to give information about who is in the area. That info is then turned into either a KOS list determined by the player, a stealthier list, or simply an incremental value of players in the area (all are a rough estimation.)
The KOS list, specifically, is simply another layer on top of the above options, where the addon looks for specific players that you can choose to add to a list. When those players perform an action within your existing area of detection, you will be notified that they are in the area. You are not provided info on exactly where they are. Here are a few specific examples:- If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
- If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
- If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).
Lastly this addon adds a kill spam list which shows you when someone has died in your existing area of detection, and to what ability. When you first get these messages, it simply says “Someone has died to Dark Flare.” When you start to get more information on the players around you, it adds that player name to the Saved Variables file for PVPAlerts.lua, then starts to add that information into your UI while playing.
Note that in all the above examples, you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position.
We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.
The following situation has happened to me very often as a non pvper doing pve stuff in Cyro.
Im on my way to X place and I see a enemy player coming toward me who have not yet noticed me.I quickly,scared,head to the nearest,tree or rock,whatever while going into stealth.They pass by me and didnt noticed me.What a close call.This have saved me many many times.
Before enemy player would never visually notice me,but now, that moment when he passes close to me and i get into stealth he will get notified by this add on and there is a good chance he will look for me and kill me.The mechanics that saved me before ,stealth,now will betray me because of this add on specific stealth function.
This add on function is somehow better than a skill.Normally you will know a enemy got stealth near you by looking at it.You need to be visually aware to know a enemy just got into stealth near you.Now with this add on you dont need to be aware of your surrounding to know a player got into stealth.So much for ZOS promoting visual queues in their game.4 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon was brought to our attention earlier in the week, and we’ve been running some internal tests on it to gauge functionality and impact. We are still evaluating this addon, and may make changes to the game’s API as a result. Here’s an explanation of how it works, and what it does and doesn’t do:
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon is built upon actions done by players that the combat log records. This includes sprinting, casting an ability, weapon swapping, drinking a potion, stealthing, etc. If a player executes any of those actions, basic messages are sent to the server and clients. This mod hooks into those notifications and filters them to give information about who is in the area. That info is then turned into either a KOS list determined by the player, a stealthier list, or simply an incremental value of players in the area (all are a rough estimation.)
The KOS list, specifically, is simply another layer on top of the above options, where the addon looks for specific players that you can choose to add to a list. When those players perform an action within your existing area of detection, you will be notified that they are in the area. You are not provided info on exactly where they are. Here are a few specific examples:- If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
- If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
- If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).
Lastly this addon adds a kill spam list which shows you when someone has died in your existing area of detection, and to what ability. When you first get these messages, it simply says “Someone has died to Dark Flare.” When you start to get more information on the players around you, it adds that player name to the Saved Variables file for PVPAlerts.lua, then starts to add that information into your UI while playing.
Note that in all the above examples, you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position.
We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I don't think your analysis is quite complete. If I understand correctly, a player in stealth initiating an attack against you will trigger an alert in the addon, allowing avoidance of the attack.
8 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wierd thought on how to fix this, but how about giving information on EVERYONE in the zone?
This would be a bit annoying with stream/guild snipers, but it would be much less of a gank detector and more of an active Cyrodiil tracker. Maybe pull out certain things like when someone goes into stealth, drinks a potion, scratches their butt; but keep in information like when someone dies to a skill and maybe to who.
This would also make it easier to see when certain players are meta gaming & farming AP for emperorship. Just watch for the same names killing each other popping up every few minutes, probably using the AP timer to maximize AP ripeness, and it would be clear when certain players are dueling and when they are trying to artificially boost the numbers.
Anyway, just a thought. Alternatively I'd say restrict the information given out to just immediate group members.Edited by HeroOfNone on December 21, 2016 4:10PM3 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon was brought to our attention earlier in the week, and we’ve been running some internal tests on it to gauge functionality and impact. We are still evaluating this addon, and may make changes to the game’s API as a result. Here’s an explanation of how it works, and what it does and doesn’t do:
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon is built upon actions done by players that the combat log records. This includes sprinting, casting an ability, weapon swapping, drinking a potion, stealthing, etc. If a player executes any of those actions, basic messages are sent to the server and clients. This mod hooks into those notifications and filters them to give information about who is in the area. That info is then turned into either a KOS list determined by the player, a stealthier list, or simply an incremental value of players in the area (all are a rough estimation.)
The KOS list, specifically, is simply another layer on top of the above options, where the addon looks for specific players that you can choose to add to a list. When those players perform an action within your existing area of detection, you will be notified that they are in the area. You are not provided info on exactly where they are. Here are a few specific examples:- If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
- If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
- If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).
Lastly this addon adds a kill spam list which shows you when someone has died in your existing area of detection, and to what ability. When you first get these messages, it simply says “Someone has died to Dark Flare.” When you start to get more information on the players around you, it adds that player name to the Saved Variables file for PVPAlerts.lua, then starts to add that information into your UI while playing.
Note that in all the above examples, you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position.
We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.
The following situation has happened to me very often as a non pvper doing pve stuff in Cyro.
Im on my way to X place and I see a enemy player coming toward me who have not yet noticed me.I quickly,scared,head to the nearest,tree or rock,whatever while going into stealth.They pass by me and didnt noticed me.What a close call.This have saved me many many times.
Before enemy player would never visually notice me,but now, that moment when he passes close to me and i get into stealth he will get notified by this add on and there is a good chance he will look for me and kill me.The mechanics that saved me before ,stealth,now will betray me because of this add on specific stealth function.
This add on function is somehow better than a skill.Normally you will know a enemy got stealth near you by looking at it.You need to be visually aware to know a enemy just got into stealth near you.Now with this add on you dont need to be aware of your surrounding to know a player got into stealth.So much for ZOS promoting visual queues in their game.I think a lot of people need to go read the comment from the ZOS staffer that explains what the addon is and isn't capable of...
The stealth detection is shoddy. It will not detect players who are already in stealth. It will only tell you if they've gone into stealth while in your detection range. It will not tell you that the stealther is now 1000 miles away and you don't need to worry about him anymore.
This addon provides intel but it's not exactly reliable intel.
yeah, as I wrote ite before on my example.... was sneaking behind enemy player when they was attacking my keep, wanted to gang some from back to help with def but meh...I have noone ganged and at all I had no any chance to try gang because when I just was near without leaving hide they instanly was informed about me in hide near and surpise for me! someone used det pot and just rekt me because addon informed him about me in stealth near, I was no any chance to def because I was just deprived my hide as squishy ganger and thne nuked by just 2 players, 1 nb who casted on my piercing mark and spamming like *** snipe with viper and 1 sorc spamming on my streak with stunning etc
if not this addon then someone will not know about me and will not use this det pot and I will have chance to gang someone but no, but knowing about something which you shouldnt know because is invisible isnt a cheat for ZO$
Just some information regarding "oh noes, he knows where I'm in stealth".
And don't get this post wrong: I don't like this addon and I would like to see changes to the API, which prevents its use. This shouldn't be a post to justify its usage at all. Unfortunately, as some people (even in organized groups) will use it as an official ZOS employee said that it is currently okay to use it... Therefore, everyone who doesn't use it gets a disadvantage (and therefore yes, i hate it but i'm currently testing it...)
I did some testing lately and I realized the following two things:
Even if I stand 3 meters away from an opponent and he goes to hide, the addon did NOT detect the player. Neither as player in the region nor as a player currently in stealth. There is more required: The enemy will have to use skills, and I'm not sure which skills as not all seem to work.
So you won't be detected while going directly into sneak / stealth in the situations described above. Of course, the addon will detect you when you start casting things (not accurate as casting a light armor shield didn't reveal the player in stealth, just to give an example about the accuracy). But casting things in stealth will make noise and even that might lead to your detection.
Distance:
Some people here believe that they instantly know where the enemy is or believe they get instantly detected. This isn't accurate.
It's a bit hard to describe what the distance to detect someone really is as I "measured" it with "screen indicators", which might depend on settings and maybe other addons.
But to get to the point. There are two areas where detection might happen. Actually three would be correct, whereas the third area is out of the visible distance (characters won't get displayed as they are too far away). The addon won't register anything that is in this area.
The first range is the critical range. In this range, the addon is capable of gathering more information about the players. It is capable of telling you who the enemies in this area are (counts toward the AD / DC / EP counter) and it is capable of displaying players in stealth including the names.
The second range is everything between the end of the first range and the beginning of the third range. Players will be registered, but the addon doesn't seem to be able to get information about the alliance and the state of the player. This means players in stealth aren't displayed and only a rough number of players in the area (area 1 + 2 to be precise) are displayed.
How big are these areas? Well, I'm not sure if it depends on your client settings or if it is some arbitrary number (but i guess it depends on arbitrary numbers which fit reasonable settings respectively the settings you have when you play with max visible distance + other settings on "high").
In the case of my client the first area ended where it wasn't possible anymore to read the player name (in my case the player name disappeared. while with other settings the name might blur). The second area ended at the point where the visible distance was ending.
So let's go back to the issue the people above have described. The opponent knows I'm here so he knows where I am.
Well, the area you might hide still isn't that small and it might take time to find you and you might react on the opponents behavior. Furthermore, it might help to not camp at an obvious position.
And again, don't get me wrong here. This addon IS ***.
We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
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Addons:
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@InvitationNotFound yes this addon is ****, in shorter version I can say, addon informing you are around in stealth, so this is allert to your enemies, so time to drin detect potion to easier find you, then you get rekt because they was informed to drin a det pot against you, end of stealth in pvp, it is it1 -
Meilinka✭✭✭I'm just sitting around and swinging heavies at the bad guys from a distance for lols now.1
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Riejael✭✭✭✭✭I think a lot of people need to go read the comment from the ZOS staffer that explains what the addon is and isn't capable of...
The stealth detection is shoddy. It will not detect players who are already in stealth. It will only tell you if they've gone into stealth while in your detection range. It will not tell you that the stealther is now 1000 miles away and you don't need to worry about him anymore.
This addon provides intel but it's not exactly reliable intel.
Whats funny is there are base UIs in other MMOs that do this base functionality. WoW has addons that mimic this addon as well. Hell there are potions in WoW that will throw stealthed characters on your minimap like its a radar/sonar.0 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭I think a lot of people need to go read the comment from the ZOS staffer that explains what the addon is and isn't capable of...
The stealth detection is shoddy. It will not detect players who are already in stealth. It will only tell you if they've gone into stealth while in your detection range. It will not tell you that the stealther is now 1000 miles away and you don't need to worry about him anymore.
This addon provides intel but it's not exactly reliable intel.
Whats funny is there are base UIs in other MMOs that do this base functionality. WoW has addons that mimic this addon as well. Hell there are potions in WoW that will throw stealthed characters on your minimap like its a radar/sonar.
Stank like that is why we play ESO and not WoW.
4 -
XDragonDoomX✭✭✭✭✭I think a lot of people need to go read the comment from the ZOS staffer that explains what the addon is and isn't capable of...
The stealth detection is shoddy. It will not detect players who are already in stealth. It will only tell you if they've gone into stealth while in your detection range. It will not tell you that the stealther is now 1000 miles away and you don't need to worry about him anymore.
This addon provides intel but it's not exactly reliable intel.
Whats funny is there are base UIs in other MMOs that do this base functionality. WoW has addons that mimic this addon as well. Hell there are potions in WoW that will throw stealthed characters on your minimap like its a radar/sonar.
1. This isn't 'Other MMOs'.
2. This isn't a base UI
The addon should be neutralised and anyone, in future, using a similar (unpublished to keep it quiet) addon should be banned.
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** Mr Glenn's Forbidden activities list**5
