Miat's PVP alerts.

maxjapank

Skcarkden wrote: »

Same reason why in First Person Shooter PvP games it doesn't give you a damage hit splat to tell you where someone is in a general direction UNTIL they actually hit you.

Because it would be BS if it did. If you're in stealth, you haven't actually hit them yet, no reason to pull em out before they do anything. otherwise we may as well just remove stealth completely.

Heck, not to mention how it would be yet another PvP BS complaint that ruins PvE because you can't stealth heavy crit on mobs anymore

Breaking stealth upon a channel still doesn't tell you where the stealther is. And the stealther does get the element of surprise. This addon informs you that the attack is incoming. And that is something that shouldn't be. Whether an instant or a channel, the attacker should get the first hit in. I'm just saying that as soon as you press a key to attack, the attacker should be visible. Most stealthers tend to attack from behind so there is still smart play and the possibility to get several attacks off before the defender knows what is happening.

Riejael

Lewandowsky wrote: »

Video evidence of impact will follow my video evidence that there are wolves in cyro and that there exist siege engines. Those conditions require as much video proof. Besides that, i doubt the highly edited nature of gaming videos will sway anyone either way. Even zos reports effects that would impact game play dramatically. To say they don't is crazy. Can't buff, swap, use skills to help me evade, charge attacks without giving me away. And there's no impact? Come on.

And this is why your argument isn't being taken seriously.

You freely admit that you are unable to prove something 'screwy' is going on because this addon. And all you'd have to do is go to gank someone, charge up your attack and record them throwing all kinds of buffs on themselves to prevent themselves from dying. And then show this happening several times in one play session.

If you are correct, you should be able to record that right now and post it.

But you know you're wrong on this. Its been 10 days since the release of this addon to the public (who knows how long its been circulated or similar addons circulated in private since the game came out), and no one has been able to provide this evidence.

And then.. even then if it were proven, it would be hard pressed to say it even needs to be changed. That's for the devs to ultimately decide. Because if you are going to squelch an API call, that will potentially BREAK dozens of PVE addons that have NO negative impact on other players. You need to have a damn good reason for it. Can you honestly tell me, that many more PVE players should be inconvenienced because maybe, maybe when you go to gank someone they put a buff up before you can land a killing blow?

Think about that for a moment. You are requesting them to potentially BREAK addons used by hundreds of players running trials and veteran dungeons, just so you can be sure to get that one gank out of a hundred that MAY not have gone through because of them running to the addon and paying attention to it the moment you charge an attack.

You, the little solo player (don't take that as a personal attack, I'm only explaining the possible perception of what could be a good number of angry players) mean much more to those running trials? That's what the devs are looking at, just so you know. To be honest, I'm not even sure they are convinced they should make any changes for solo playstyles in Cyrodil.

If you don't like running with a zerg, run with a group, raid, or guild. Its pretty damn funny that in every MMO game I play in. most issues players have, can be solved simply by playing the game like its a multiplayer game. Try that, or at least try to make a video.

Otherwise this is a nontroversy.

Lewandowsky

Riejael wrote: »

Lewandowsky wrote: »

Video evidence of impact will follow my video evidence that there are wolves in cyro and that there exist siege engines. Those conditions require as much video proof. Besides that, i doubt the highly edited nature of gaming videos will sway anyone either way. Even zos reports effects that would impact game play dramatically. To say they don't is crazy. Can't buff, swap, use skills to help me evade, charge attacks without giving me away. And there's no impact? Come on.

And this is why your argument isn't being taken seriously.

You freely admit that you are unable to prove something 'screwy' is going on because this addon. And all you'd have to do is go to gank someone, charge up your attack and record them throwing all kinds of buffs on themselves to prevent themselves from dying. And then show this happening several times in one play session.

If you are correct, you should be able to record that right now and post it.

But you know you're wrong on this. Its been 10 days since the release of this addon to the public (who knows how long its been circulated or similar addons circulated in private since the game came out), and no one has been able to provide this evidence.

And then.. even then if it were proven, it would be hard pressed to say it even needs to be changed. That's for the devs to ultimately decide. Because if you are going to squelch an API call, that will potentially BREAK dozens of PVE addons that have NO negative impact on other players. You need to have a damn good reason for it. Can you honestly tell me, that many more PVE players should be inconvenienced because maybe, maybe when you go to gank someone they put a buff up before you can land a killing blow?

Think about that for a moment. You are requesting them to potentially BREAK addons used by hundreds of players running trials and veteran dungeons, just so you can be sure to get that one gank out of a hundred that MAY not have gone through because of them running to the addon and paying attention to it the moment you charge an attack.

You, the little solo player (don't take that as a personal attack, I'm only explaining the possible perception of what could be a good number of angry players) mean much more to those running trials? That's what the devs are looking at, just so you know. To be honest, I'm not even sure they are convinced they should make any changes for solo playstyles in Cyrodil.

If you don't like running with a zerg, run with a group, raid, or guild. Its pretty damn funny that in every MMO game I play in. most issues players have, can be solved simply by playing the game like its a multiplayer game. Try that, or at least try to make a video.

Otherwise this is a nontroversy.

Getting a little personal aren't we? I refer you back to dev comments. There isn't really a debate.

Riejael

Lewandowsky wrote: »

Getting a little personal aren't we? I refer you back to dev comments. There isn't really a debate.

If I were being personal, I'd be making emotional posts about how this addon would be ruining the game.

I don't support the idea of a stealth'd action being broadcasted. I NEVER stated that I did. I've tried to explain several times times that I've taken an unbiased and detached position on the subject.

How I feel (or others feel) about the addon or more importantly the API's that make it work, are IRRELEVANT to the topic. What is relevant is common-sense action and methods to ovecome the situation that the OP provided.

Lewandowsky

Riejael wrote: »

If I were being personal, I'd be making emotional posts about how this addon would be ruining the game.

I almost missed the irony in that. Did you catch it?Slow down for me please.

Riejael wrote: »

How I feel (or others feel) about the addon or more importantly the API's that make it work, are IRRELEVANT to the topic. What is relevant is common-sense action and methods to ovecome the situation that the OP provided.

Phew we're in agreement then. Took us a while to get there.

timidobserver

Dracane wrote: »

I've been testing this Addon since a few days.
It doesn't tell me anything, I couldn't know on my own, if I would pay attention to what I see and hear around me.

The nearby player counter seems to be lying most of the time. I tells me, there are 12 players inside the sewers, even though it's all dead.
I understand the debate however. It makes things alot easier and you need to pay less attention.

I also tested the addon and this is wrong. It's not as bad as some people are saying, but the add-on definitely provides some handy information.

Kutsuu

I'm still ganking people who use this addon. People have gotten so confident with it that they have actually made it easier on me by not running radiant magelight anymore, not keeping their buffs up when they don't see anyone around on their counter, and just generally being more confident and less paranoid than before.

First, you won't show up on their counter unless you leave/enter crouch. You can buff, even cast magelight right next to them where they can hear it, and you don't show up on the counter.

Second, they only get the heavy attack alert if you focus your target reticle on them while charging it. I simply point away from them while charging it up - then once I do point my reticle at them THEY DO NOT GET AN ALERT!!! The alert only seems to trigger when someone STARTS charging a heavy attack while you are targeted by them.

Using Ambush does give them around 1/3rd of a second in which they could react before it lands. The most reliable option is to release your bow heavy attack in melee range and immediately incap. They have literally ZERO warning here and no possibility to react ahead of time. However, I have had only a few very prepared players manage to block my Ambush after getting the warning for it... so I still use it a lot.

Another option is the "cry wolf" strategy. Stand 25-30m away from your target who you suspect is using the addon, and just charge/swing melee heavy attacks at them. They will get an alert at the beginning of every heavy channel, and for the first dozen or so alerts they will flip out, waste their stam buffing, blocking, dodge rolling, wasting their detect potions, etc. Eventually they think you're trolling them and stop defending. This is when you actually do strike and kill them, then teabag.

Anyway, I'm kinda enjoying people using this addon. It adds an extra element of strategy to ganking, and an extra element of rage to the victim who thinks they are safe.

heng14rwb17_ESO

I love KOS!

Maikon

Kutsuu wrote: »

I'm still ganking people who use this addon. People have gotten so confident with it that they have actually made it easier on me by not running radiant magelight anymore, not keeping their buffs up when they don't see anyone around on their counter, and just generally being more confident and less paranoid than before.

First, you won't show up on their counter unless you leave/enter crouch. You can buff, even cast magelight right next to them where they can hear it, and you don't show up on the counter.

Second, they only get the heavy attack alert if you focus your target reticle on them while charging it. I simply point away from them while charging it up - then once I do point my reticle at them THEY DO NOT GET AN ALERT!!! The alert only seems to trigger when someone STARTS charging a heavy attack while you are targeted by them.

Using Ambush does give them around 1/3rd of a second in which they could react before it lands. The most reliable option is to release your bow heavy attack in melee range and immediately incap. They have literally ZERO warning here and no possibility to react ahead of time. However, I have had only a few very prepared players manage to block my Ambush after getting the warning for it... so I still use it a lot.

Another option is the "cry wolf" strategy. Stand 25-30m away from your target who you suspect is using the addon, and just charge/swing melee heavy attacks at them. They will get an alert at the beginning of every heavy channel, and for the first dozen or so alerts they will flip out, waste their stam buffing, blocking, dodge rolling, wasting their detect potions, etc. Eventually they think you're trolling them and stop defending. This is when you actually do strike and kill them, then teabag.

Anyway, I'm kinda enjoying people using this addon. It adds an extra element of strategy to ganking, and an extra element of rage to the victim who thinks they are safe.

This is smart, a way to counter a counter, and it probably would have a high success rate. But the problem is, it requires the person to actually put some thinking and working into a strategy, and unfortunately, most of the kids who play stealthers, just want that 1 button kill w/o having to think at all.

TreeHugger1

Lewandowsky wrote: »

TreeHugger1 wrote: »

Apologies for not reading these 19 pages of gankers' tears(ironic).
Anyway this addon is amazing and I want to give my sincere gratitude to the person who created this addon and worked very hard for our community (except the ungrateful gankers).
This weekend I was attacked hundreds of times by snipers and gankers with proc sets and this addon was my redemption.
Lastly I really hope zos wont wipe the tears of the gankers and give them what they want.
Merry Christmas gankers:)

Pretty sure this is a ganker in disguise. Why else would he endorse an impact

Hell no,I am just a stupid and an honest mag sorc who believes snipers and gankers with proc sets shouldnt exist and unlike ZOS this addon does BALANCE the game.
As I implied it is very ironic that gankers who cause many frustration whine in this thread like babies.

jimshrum3b14_ESO

I love this mod. To me it's an anti gank mod!

Kutsuu

Maikon wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

I'm still ganking people who use this addon. People have gotten so confident with it that they have actually made it easier on me by not running radiant magelight anymore, not keeping their buffs up when they don't see anyone around on their counter, and just generally being more confident and less paranoid than before.

First, you won't show up on their counter unless you leave/enter crouch. You can buff, even cast magelight right next to them where they can hear it, and you don't show up on the counter.

Second, they only get the heavy attack alert if you focus your target reticle on them while charging it. I simply point away from them while charging it up - then once I do point my reticle at them THEY DO NOT GET AN ALERT!!! The alert only seems to trigger when someone STARTS charging a heavy attack while you are targeted by them.

Using Ambush does give them around 1/3rd of a second in which they could react before it lands. The most reliable option is to release your bow heavy attack in melee range and immediately incap. They have literally ZERO warning here and no possibility to react ahead of time. However, I have had only a few very prepared players manage to block my Ambush after getting the warning for it... so I still use it a lot.

Another option is the "cry wolf" strategy. Stand 25-30m away from your target who you suspect is using the addon, and just charge/swing melee heavy attacks at them. They will get an alert at the beginning of every heavy channel, and for the first dozen or so alerts they will flip out, waste their stam buffing, blocking, dodge rolling, wasting their detect potions, etc. Eventually they think you're trolling them and stop defending. This is when you actually do strike and kill them, then teabag.

Anyway, I'm kinda enjoying people using this addon. It adds an extra element of strategy to ganking, and an extra element of rage to the victim who thinks they are safe.

This is smart, a way to counter a counter, and it probably would have a high success rate. But the problem is, it requires the person to actually put some thinking and working into a strategy, and unfortunately, most of the kids who play stealthers, just want that 1 button kill w/o having to think at all.

This can be said for almost every mechanic/set/ability complaint on this forum. IMO, a happy/fulfilled MMO player is one who thinks, strategizes, and adapts to the ever changing state of balance. While I have ideas and theories about it, I'll never truly understand the people who go through life (and gaming) acting as victims and complaining about everything that doesn't go their way. Personally I find much more joy in finding ways to succeed with the cards handed to me.

olsborg

I only use it while proccsets are ridiculous as they are now, gankers have it too easy, the look on their corpse when their heavy atk from stealth is dodged and I turn the tide of the fight against them in a split second, priceless.

Dorrino

Kutsuu wrote: »

It adds an extra element of strategy to ganking, and an extra element of rage to the victim who thinks they are safe.

While not judging the playstyle, i have a question for you:)

Why would you want to oneshot people and, especially to get enjoyment from their 'rage'.

You didn't outplay them. Even with the addon the only thing you can outplay is the addon itself. You can't even taunt your 'victims' because they don't have to make mistakes to get oneshot.

I can understand that now with the addon ganking becomes more of a challenge, but before that?

So if you're so inclined, tell me what do you enjoy in this specific playstyle as it is right now.

Thank you:)

FriedEggSandwich

This addon sounds pretty bad for the game. I have no plans to use it and I hope it has a short life. A cloaking NB can be heard, hell even a cloaked NBs weapon swap can be heard, a magelight cast can be heard and the red particle effect from cloak can also be seen without them leaving stealth. I use these cues to anticipate a gank, I hope I don't start getting accused of using this addon. If zos knows what's good and care this addon will be addessed.

FortheloveofKrist

LMAO.

So glad I switched from PC to console.

Where my Masta Racers at?!?! LOL

FriedEggSandwich

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

LMAO.

So glad I switched from PC to console.

Where my Masta Racers at?!?! LOL

Lol yeah enjoy your 2 second 180

Skcarkden

maxjapank wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

Same reason why in First Person Shooter PvP games it doesn't give you a damage hit splat to tell you where someone is in a general direction UNTIL they actually hit you.

Because it would be BS if it did. If you're in stealth, you haven't actually hit them yet, no reason to pull em out before they do anything. otherwise we may as well just remove stealth completely.

Heck, not to mention how it would be yet another PvP BS complaint that ruins PvE because you can't stealth heavy crit on mobs anymore

Breaking stealth upon a channel still doesn't tell you where the stealther is. And the stealther does get the element of surprise. This addon informs you that the attack is incoming. And that is something that shouldn't be. Whether an instant or a channel, the attacker should get the first hit in. I'm just saying that as soon as you press a key to attack, the attacker should be visible. Most stealthers tend to attack from behind so there is still smart play and the possibility to get several attacks off before the defender knows what is happening.

Uh... Hold up... this is getting confusing now, are you against stealth or for it?

initially it sounded like you wanted stealth broken so that charging a heavy attack would break stealth before it even hits? Now you're talking as if you think i'm against stealth and defending it?

All i'm saying is, stealth shouldn't break while charging a heavy attack, untill they hit you, you have no reason to suspect someone is behind you. and there should be no system to warn people that someone is in stealth preparing an attack because it completely undermines the whole purpose of stealth if you can't even use it.

EnviousStruggle

Dorrino wrote: »

Why would you want to oneshot people and, especially to get enjoyment from their 'rage'.

because its FUN

and i always making one shot builds

Enslaved

Dorrino wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

It adds an extra element of strategy to ganking, and an extra element of rage to the victim who thinks they are safe.

While not judging the playstyle, i have a question for you:)

Why would you want to oneshot people and, especially to get enjoyment from their 'rage'.

You didn't outplay them. Even with the addon the only thing you can outplay is the addon itself. You can't even taunt your 'victims' because they don't have to make mistakes to get oneshot.

I can understand that now with the addon ganking becomes more of a challenge, but before that?

So if you're so inclined, tell me what do you enjoy in this specific playstyle as it is right now.

Thank you:)

Tbh, if someone gets oneshoted, he is doing it wrong.
I might be talking from DK perspective, but a build that gets oneshoted is a bad build. I mean, if you run 20k hp or less in a medium/light armor, being visible - you are asking for it.

About "outplaying". This is not a board game. It is not a duel. It is war. And in war you have ganks. With this addon, you lose the aspect of surprise. Can't sneak into a keep when it's open. Can't burn enemy's tent and turn the battle in your alliance favor. Can't disturbe the flow of enemies simply by killing one and changing spots, since now they will know you are there by simply buffing yourself, even if they cannot hear/see you. Not to mention that if NPC notices you, everyone will know you are there, without even seeing/hearing you. All it gets now is to have one person in each keep, and surprise sieges are no more.

So what are we left with now? Zergs, or ultra tanky groups with a few sorcers as dps to take enemy resources. Pretty boring stuff, if you ask me.

leepalmer95

Enslaved wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

It adds an extra element of strategy to ganking, and an extra element of rage to the victim who thinks they are safe.

While not judging the playstyle, i have a question for you:)

Why would you want to oneshot people and, especially to get enjoyment from their 'rage'.

You didn't outplay them. Even with the addon the only thing you can outplay is the addon itself. You can't even taunt your 'victims' because they don't have to make mistakes to get oneshot.

I can understand that now with the addon ganking becomes more of a challenge, but before that?

So if you're so inclined, tell me what do you enjoy in this specific playstyle as it is right now.

Thank you:)

Tbh, if someone gets oneshoted, he is doing it wrong.
I might be talking from DK perspective, but a build that gets oneshoted is a bad build. I mean, if you run 20k hp or less in a medium/light armor, being visible - you are asking for it.

About "outplaying". This is not a board game. It is not a duel. It is war. And in war you have ganks. With this addon, you lose the aspect of surprise. Can't sneak into a keep when it's open. Can't burn enemy's tent and turn the battle in your alliance favor. Can't disturbe the flow of enemies simply by killing one and changing spots, since now they will know you are there by simply buffing yourself, even if they cannot hear/see you. Not to mention that if NPC notices you, everyone will know you are there, without even seeing/hearing you. All it gets now is to have one person in each keep, and surprise sieges are no more.

So what are we left with now? Zergs, or ultra tanky groups with a few sorcers as dps to take enemy resources. Pretty boring stuff, if you ask me.

I've seen people with 30k+ hp get one shotted.

I've seen emp's get instant killed by 2 gankers.

It's not that people have 'bad builds' its just the fact that power creep has lead to gank's being far too effect, plus the whole sneak system is a joke to begin with.

Skcarkden

EnviousStruggle wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

TreeHugger1 wrote: »

Apologies for not reading these 19 pages of gankers' tears(ironic).
Anyway this addon is amazing and I want to give my sincere gratitude to the person who created this addon and worked very hard for our community (except the ungrateful gankers).
This weekend I was attacked hundreds of times by snipers and gankers with proc sets and this addon was my redemption.
Lastly I really hope zos wont wipe the tears of the gankers and give them what they want.
Merry Christmas gankers:)

Cheater detected

how cheats can be legit? because addon is legit according to ZOS
but cheats is not according to TOS and EULA of ZOS

so he is not a cheater

Welcome to politics, where something can be technically allowed when it otherwise shouldn't be because of how it's done and who's in charge.

It's cheating, pure and simple, but it's cheating via an addon using information ZOS was silly enough to give out without considering whether it's the sort of information that *should* be given out.

But, ZOS will no doubt have to pretend to argue amongst itself over whether they think it should be allowed or not.

Who knew it could be so difficult to decide if players should be allowed to know if others are nearby without actually seeing them yet when the base game itself can't let people know that?

Meanwhile in other games Xray mods are banned because it lets people know of things around them they otherwise couldn't have known without personally seeing it themself. Go figure.

Edziu

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

It adds an extra element of strategy to ganking, and an extra element of rage to the victim who thinks they are safe.

While not judging the playstyle, i have a question for you:)

Why would you want to oneshot people and, especially to get enjoyment from their 'rage'.

You didn't outplay them. Even with the addon the only thing you can outplay is the addon itself. You can't even taunt your 'victims' because they don't have to make mistakes to get oneshot.

I can understand that now with the addon ganking becomes more of a challenge, but before that?

So if you're so inclined, tell me what do you enjoy in this specific playstyle as it is right now.

Thank you:)

Tbh, if someone gets oneshoted, he is doing it wrong.
I might be talking from DK perspective, but a build that gets oneshoted is a bad build. I mean, if you run 20k hp or less in a medium/light armor, being visible - you are asking for it.

About "outplaying". This is not a board game. It is not a duel. It is war. And in war you have ganks. With this addon, you lose the aspect of surprise. Can't sneak into a keep when it's open. Can't burn enemy's tent and turn the battle in your alliance favor. Can't disturbe the flow of enemies simply by killing one and changing spots, since now they will know you are there by simply buffing yourself, even if they cannot hear/see you. Not to mention that if NPC notices you, everyone will know you are there, without even seeing/hearing you. All it gets now is to have one person in each keep, and surprise sieges are no more.

So what are we left with now? Zergs, or ultra tanky groups with a few sorcers as dps to take enemy resources. Pretty boring stuff, if you ask me.

I've seen people with 30k+ hp get one shotted.

I've seen emp's get instant killed by 2 gankers.

2 words

PROC SETS

wait with this crap until next patch and have hope it will get nice nerf for just pvp

EnviousStruggle

i like this addon
so i am a cheater too?

Enslaved

If you endorse cheating, yeah.

EnviousStruggle

im telling i like this addon and im using it and this addon not a cheat
but according to your blatant logic i am a cheater?

you are reported for slander

Enslaved

Sure. Whatever. Welcome to ignore list.

EnviousStruggle

great
one more mudcrab devastated

XDragonDoomX

EnviousStruggle wrote: »

i like this addon
so i am a cheater too?

Possibly....

Confession booths - first on the left. Please take a ticket and wait in the queue.

Lewandowsky

EnviousStruggle wrote: »

i like this addon
so i am a cheater too?

No. Look up gaming exploit however; not everyone agrees but if you feel the designers did not intend people be forewarned of channeling with heavies or others to allow blocking and rolling... that's kind of the definition. Not everyone agrees.[SNIp] don't turn your brain off and go with the crazies because it's convenient. Gonna have to decide for yourself til zos decides what to do.

[Edited for Real life politics]