Miat's PVP alerts.

Riejael

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Ron_Burgundy_79

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thank you for the detailed reply. Have there been any internal discussions, or any upcoming plans, to institute a no add-ons or no UI PVP campaign?

There are quite a few people who truly enjoy the barebones original UI but are forced into using both add ons and "floaty number" ZOS made UI upgrades in order to maintain competitive balance.

You're welcome! Unfortunately, it isn't currently possible to disable addons for just one campaign and not the others.

Thanks for the reply! If it ever happens to become possible some of us would very much appreciate it!

Also, quadruple sized elephant mounts that can carry siege and a merchant. Haha. One thing at a time though. :-)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but console add ons don't appear to give an real advantages compared to this add on that is being discussed.

I like seeing my damage and healing numbers scroll across, but seeing that I hit a kid with a 12k dawnbreaker doesn't really make me better.

Also +1 on the giant elephant mount.

XDragonDoomX

Riejael wrote: »

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

You called for a response that didn't involve a personal attack & then you make one yourself ???

I think you know what you can do with your 'reasoned arguments' - I hope the printer paper doesn't cut you too badly

Enodoc

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thank you for the detailed reply. Have there been any internal discussions, or any upcoming plans, to institute a no add-ons or no UI PVP campaign?

There are quite a few people who truly enjoy the barebones original UI but are forced into using both add ons and "floaty number" ZOS made UI upgrades in order to maintain competitive balance.

You're welcome! Unfortunately, it isn't currently possible to disable addons for just one campaign and not the others.

Thanks for the reply! If it ever happens to become possible some of us would very much appreciate it!

Also, quadruple sized elephant mounts that can carry siege and a merchant. Haha. One thing at a time though. :-)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but console add ons don't appear to give an real advantages compared to this add on that is being discussed.

Consoles don't have add-ons, so that comment doesn't really work.

ZOS_PeterT

Some additional comments have been removed, please remember to keep things civil and constructive.
We understand that debates arise but avoid personal attacks as this does not promote constructive discussion.
The forum rules provide additional information on our posting Guidelines.

gard

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

Joy_Division

MerkzM8 wrote: »

So now, due to this dumb add on we can no longer heavy attack gank, thanks zenimax.

You can to me because I'm not using an add-on that tells me how many enemies there are in my proximity that I can see or haven't scouted.

maxjapank

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

azoriangaming

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

obviously a sword and board block caster ^^^^^^^^^

lygerseye

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

Then that's something ZOS should fix, not a player. By making this add-on, he's essentially making his own rules for the game. Yes, he's sharing the add-on for anyone to use, but that's not the same as a base game patch where it's applied to everyone at once.

maxjapank

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

obviously a sword and board block caster ^^^^^^^^^

You've lost me. Was that an attempt at insult?

maxjapank

lygerseye wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

Then that's something ZOS should fix, not a player. By making this add-on, he's essentially making his own rules for the game. Yes, he's sharing the add-on for anyone to use, but that's not the same as a base game patch where it's applied to everyone at once.

Well, you don't have to like it. But as the API alerts that someone just began a channel, it seems the rule is already there. Though it's been hidden to us in the current UI system. But it is good he's shared it. It's likely others have or could have developed a similar addon and kept it secret. Ball is sorta in ZOS's court now. And I will abide by their decision.

azoriangaming

maxjapank wrote: »

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

obviously a sword and board block caster ^^^^^^^^^

You've lost me. Was that an attempt at insult?

no not at all i'm just stating the obvious and your quote is a emotional one which would hurt the game in the long run, let's just put it this way if you did your idea of as soon as you use a skill it pulled you from stealth making any form of rogue/assassin gameplay not playable, so then everyone would be in heavy armor running around with a sword and board well except shield stacking magsorcs mind you even magsorcs are starting to use heavy armor now,

conclusion why should everyone play the same build to be competitive they shouldn't obviously and your quote would leave the game in that state.

lygerseye

maxjapank wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

Then that's something ZOS should fix, not a player. By making this add-on, he's essentially making his own rules for the game. Yes, he's sharing the add-on for anyone to use, but that's not the same as a base game patch where it's applied to everyone at once.

Well, you don't have to like it. But as the API alerts that someone just began a channel, it seems the rule is already there. Though it's been hidden to us in the current UI system. But it is good he's shared it. It's likely others have or could have developed a similar addon and kept it secret. Ball is sorta in ZOS's court now. And I will abide by their decision.

gard

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

Then perhaps the game should be modified to make a stealthed person visible when they begin an attack. I'd argue that the api event should still go away unless the attacker is in view. E.g. not behind the target.

Gilvoth

it does make you visible when you begin a heavy attack.
normal skills are not visible, but heavy attacks bring me out of stealth. and i dont get the stealth bonus from heavy attack.

Riejael

gard wrote: »

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

Try reading that post again. When people say things like "write less" its means they didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand it. As I don't believe most forum posters are naive, I think you skimmed and missed important parts.

I'd wager you even think I'm defending the addon.

Dracane

I've been testing this Addon since a few days.
It doesn't tell me anything, I couldn't know on my own, if I would pay attention to what I see and hear around me.

The nearby player counter seems to be lying most of the time. I tells me, there are 12 players inside the sewers, even though it's all dead.
I understand the debate however. It makes things alot easier and you need to pay less attention.

Chuga_Rei

ITT: console players try and take cheap shots at the PC master race because we can customize all sorts of things they cant.

Also before you sperg out, I work for Xbox lol.

I will take my wonderful custom UI and, mount feed timer, skyshard and lorebook hunter, etc etc

Stay mad

Riejael

Dracane wrote: »

I've been testing this Addon since a few days.
It doesn't tell me anything, I couldn't know on my own, if I would pay attention to what I see and hear around me.

The nearby player counter seems to be lying most of the time. I tells me, there are 12 players inside the sewers, even though it's all dead.
I understand the debate however. It makes things alot easier and you need to pay less attention.

I'm still waiting on the video evidence from players saying their class was ruined. Hell they haven't even given personal accounts, just 'sky is falling' posts.

I had a feeling from the start of this thread that it would turn out to be a nontroversy.

maxjapank

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

obviously a sword and board block caster ^^^^^^^^^

You've lost me. Was that an attempt at insult?

no not at all i'm just stating the obvious and your quote is a emotional one which would hurt the game in the long run, let's just put it this way if you did your idea of as soon as you use a skill it pulled you from stealth making any form of rogue/assassin gameplay not playable, so then everyone would be in heavy armor running around with a sword and board well except shield stacking magsorcs mind you even magsorcs are starting to use heavy armor now,

conclusion why should everyone play the same build to be competitive they shouldn't obviously and your quote would leave the game in that state.

First off, you don't know what build I use or how I play my class. All you know is that I play a dps / healer Templar, if you can read my sig. Second, what's obvious to you may be different than someone else's opinion. It doesn't make you right, as much as you think you are. Third, I never got emotional in my post. At least not until now. So quit attacking people in your non to subtle ways. It's a bit childish.

Lylith

maxjapank wrote: »

lygerseye wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

Then that's something ZOS should fix, not a player. By making this add-on, he's essentially making his own rules for the game. Yes, he's sharing the add-on for anyone to use, but that's not the same as a base game patch where it's applied to everyone at once.

Well, you don't have to like it. But as the API alerts that someone just began a channel, it seems the rule is already there. Though it's been hidden to us in the current UI system. But it is good he's shared it. It's likely others have or could have developed a similar addon and kept it secret. Ball is sorta in ZOS's court now. And I will abide by their decision.

without a doubt.

the words 'lag switch' comes to mind.

Minalan

Riejael wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I've been testing this Addon since a few days.
It doesn't tell me anything, I couldn't know on my own, if I would pay attention to what I see and hear around me.

The nearby player counter seems to be lying most of the time. I tells me, there are 12 players inside the sewers, even though it's all dead.
I understand the debate however. It makes things alot easier and you need to pay less attention.

I'm still waiting on the video evidence from players saying their class was ruined. Hell they haven't even given personal accounts, just 'sky is falling' posts.

I had a feeling from the start of this thread that it would turn out to be a nontroversy.

It's not game ruining for gankers, but that doesn't make it fair.

When everyone knows 'Elder Trolls' is hidden nearby you can see people spamming shields to proc Infernal, hitting mage light, preparing, holding block, tossing reveals everywhere, etc.

A nightblade who doesn't want to be found still isn't most of the time, but it often takes away their initiative.

On the other hand though, given nightblades this patch with their one-shot kills? Who gives a damn about them always having the initiative? Yeah there I said it.

Minalan

Double post

azoriangaming

maxjapank wrote: »

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

obviously a sword and board block caster ^^^^^^^^^

You've lost me. Was that an attempt at insult?

no not at all i'm just stating the obvious and your quote is a emotional one which would hurt the game in the long run, let's just put it this way if you did your idea of as soon as you use a skill it pulled you from stealth making any form of rogue/assassin gameplay not playable, so then everyone would be in heavy armor running around with a sword and board well except shield stacking magsorcs mind you even magsorcs are starting to use heavy armor now,

conclusion why should everyone play the same build to be competitive they shouldn't obviously and your quote would leave the game in that state.

First off, you don't know what build I use or how I play my class. All you know is that I play a dps / healer Templar, if you can read my sig. Second, what's obvious to you may be different than someone else's opinion. It doesn't make you right, as much as you think you are. Third, I never got emotional in my post. At least not until now. So quit attacking people in your non to subtle ways. It's a bit childish.

ok let's get down to the nitty gritty because you're not understanding correctly at all, do you play any form of rogue/assassin class so you can comprehend both sides of the picture? or are you just going off how you feel in the game should be played from your side of things if so then yes it's your opinion and that is fine but i refuse your opinions through logic and reason


[Edit to remove bait]

maxjapank

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

azoriangaming wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

obviously a sword and board block caster ^^^^^^^^^

You've lost me. Was that an attempt at insult?

no not at all i'm just stating the obvious and your quote is a emotional one which would hurt the game in the long run, let's just put it this way if you did your idea of as soon as you use a skill it pulled you from stealth making any form of rogue/assassin gameplay not playable, so then everyone would be in heavy armor running around with a sword and board well except shield stacking magsorcs mind you even magsorcs are starting to use heavy armor now,

conclusion why should everyone play the same build to be competitive they shouldn't obviously and your quote would leave the game in that state.

First off, you don't know what build I use or how I play my class. All you know is that I play a dps / healer Templar, if you can read my sig. Second, what's obvious to you may be different than someone else's opinion. It doesn't make you right, as much as you think you are. Third, I never got emotional in my post. At least not until now. So quit attacking people in your non to subtle ways. It's a bit childish.

ok let's get down to the nitty gritty because you're not understanding correctly at all, do you play any form of rogue/assassin class so you can comprehend both sides of the picture? or are you just going off how you feel in the game should be played from your side of things if so then yes it's your opinion and that is fine but i refuse your opinions through logic and reason because you don't have the knowledge of the different ways to play in the game.

ok in real life terms you wouldn't go to a business meeting without doing the proper research and this is what you're doing.

I said something about channeled attacks pulling someone immediately out of stealth, and suddenly you think I'm trying to turtle the game into one play style. But I'm not.

[Edit to remove bait]

Lewandowsky

Riejael wrote: »

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

Not accurate. I am not the first to report that I am being hunted by sturdy builds that know I'm there in stealth when they should have no idea, whether by weapon swap or buff or skill I am given away. Where I am a glassy build that relies on stealth. I do not need to post a video to prove this - enter Cyro and use stealth around your enemies. The change is real and dramatic, and being used by low and ultra high cp players.

Riejael

Minalan wrote: »

Not accurate. I am not the first to report that I am being hunted by sturdy builds that know I'm there in stealth when they should have no idea, whether by weapon swap or buff or skill I am given away. Where I am a glassy build that relies on stealth. I do not need to post a video to prove this - enter Cyro and use stealth around your enemies. The change is real and dramatic, and being used by low and ultra high cp players.

And I'm reporting that there has been no change, alongside others. Which kinda cancels out your argument. So if we're only going by anecdotal evidence. No change has happened since the introduction of the addon. Only a perception of such.

Burden of proof is on you to show that something has changed.

Skcarkden

maxjapank wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

1. ZoS said they will not currently ban anyone for using it - that is not to say if, after evaluation they decide to ban the add-on.
I am not suggesting that current users are banned while it is being evaluated, merely that it should be neutralised and anyone in the future using similar should be denied access - so no sticky situation.

They're not going to ban anyone for using the LUA environment. All they will do is squelch API calls. Which by the way there's a very good chance the same calls being used in PVP Alerts are also used in Addons you're probably using. So they've got to be very selective of which ones they squelch, or risk breaking many PVE addons. You think they are going to tick off a dozen PVE players for every ONE PVP player that's complaining about this? I wouldn't. They'll let PVPers quit before ticking off PVE'ers. You knew that already.

2. The addon goes against the spirit of ESO - its no longer 'play how you want' - more 'follow the herd, get the add-ons or die'. It also provides information that, truly, no one should have access to. It will only provide more argument to the 'split cyrodiil into pvp & pve', since anyone now who - following the often generously salty & acidic advice of pvp'ers to use stealth to complete content - is now seriously disadvantaged to do so.

You don't get to decide what the spirit of ESO is. The devs do. If they decide the addon stays, it stays. And its already been one update cycle since it was made public. I'd wager we won't see anything in January either.

As for information, WHY oh WHY is the information in the LUA API? Because a developer PUT it there. What you are saying is Rings shouldn't be used because crafter's can't make them. That they were accidentally put in. Do you understand the analogy? Do you understand that the LUA environment placed in ESO by the devs was NOT an accident? The game is NOT created in LUA, LUA is simply an embeded language with API and Script calls. They get the ability to turn those on and off with a simple patch, probably able to do it server side without bringing the server down.

So lets break this down, since you didn't read the dev post earlier in the thread.

Within a certain range, the API announces who dies when they die.
Within a certain range, the API announces when skill used and who used it.
The addon uses this to alert a player which skill was used and who used it.
The addon also records a database (totally doable by a player with pen and paper btw) of players the user encounters.
The addon allows the user to place players who are recorded into a "Kill on Sight List" which is just a feature name for a filter or query of said database.
The addon alerts you to any deaths recorded by the API.

And you're going to tell me, that "Within a certain range, the API announces when a skill was used and who used it." Was an unintended API call? Seriously?

If that was the case, why hasn't it been turned off? That's a server side switch. They don't even have to patch the game for that. Information from the API telling when someone used a skill is a server side mechanic. I mean unless you want to admit that you didn't know that when players use skills it sends that info to the server which sends it to everyone else.

If any of this is confusing or new to you, admit ignorance and step away. It just means you 'Oops'd' and weren't prepared for the discussion. Otherwise you are being dishonest and deceptive about your arguments. Trying to push an agenda of squeezing every other buff out of your preferred playstyle you can for selfish reasons.

And furthermore you and others like you have made a sensationalized nontroversy by claiming stealth play in PVP is neutralized. I have played many games who have similar addons and some with default UI's with these features. At no point has stealthed ever been neutralized in those games. And I have yet to see evidence of it in ESO since this addon was released.

Feel free to take evidence and post it if you have it. You'll be the first to do so. This way we can evaluate what exactly is going on.

I will say this. I don't support the addon, and haven't used it. But the difference between you and I, is I will not let my emotions guide my vision or decisions. I may not like the addon, but I understand why it exists, how it exists, and what it took to make it happen. No rule was broken. No oversight or negligence from the devs exploited.

To put it simply, it was a clever use of game mechanics. It can be fixed, but the fix has to be surgical, and likely will NOT completely gut the addon. Some API calls have to remain. There's even a great possibility all will remain.

But going on an emotional tantrum acting like its a high resolution stealth radar, as many in the thread have done, doesn't help the discussion and I dare say would borderline call for moderation.

Perhaps think more, and write less.

Yes, zos posted their findings. But their evaluation is incomplete, as evidenced by the addon documentation. If someone in stealth initiates a channeled attack, the targeted player is notified. This is obviously unintended and needs to go away.

It wouldn't make sense to ban someone for using an api function. But then, zos apparently has banned people for using charge attacks to gain access to keeps, so who knows?

I'm not convinced that a channeled attack should be completely hidden in stealth. Just because that's how it's been till now, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Why shouldn't the second you begin an attack pull you out of stealth?

Same reason why in First Person Shooter PvP games it doesn't give you a damage hit splat to tell you where someone is in a general direction UNTIL they actually hit you.

Because it would be BS if it did. If you're in stealth, you haven't actually hit them yet, no reason to pull em out before they do anything. otherwise we may as well just remove stealth completely.

Heck, not to mention how it would be yet another PvP BS complaint that ruins PvE because you can't stealth heavy crit on mobs anymore

Lewandowsky

Riejael wrote: »

And I'm reporting that there has been no change, alongside others. Which kinda cancels out your argument. So if we're only going by anecdotal evidence. No change has happened since the introduction of the addon. Only a perception of such.

Burden of proof is on you to show that something has changed.

Video evidence of impact will follow my video evidence that there are wolves in cyro and that there exist siege engines. Those conditions require as much video proof. Besides that, i doubt the highly edited nature of gaming videos will sway anyone either way. Even zos reports effects that would impact game play dramatically. To say they don't is crazy. Can't buff, swap, use skills to help me evade, charge attacks without giving me away. And there's no impact? Come on.

Edited.

Edited again:
But let's say that I've imagined the impact, that I've been unable to play solo anymore and can only zerg is because of imagination. Let's just take what zos said as having potential rather than realized effects. Do we end up in a different situation to have the exploit vs damage to stealth play vs something else as having only potential impacts on play in the future? I think we'd be in the same spot. Many would still be calling for its reversal. Like we are now. Highly editable video made with help of friends on enemy factions doesn't change that.