Miat's PVP alerts.

Celas_Dranacea

I installed this addon and tried it out this weekend. Overall, I would say that using this hasn't changed my life very much. Here is my review:

Stealth Attack Notification: The stealth attack notification I think really didn't make a difference to me personally as I am already extremely paranoid about gankers, being one myself - in fact during larger fights the notification is kind of annoying spam - there's so much going on I barely can react to that anyhow and if I do I may be gimping myself against something else I need to react to.

New players / accessibility: I can see if newer players had this it would help them out a huge amount by taking away some of the learning curve of reading different situations and being prepared in Cyrodil. This could help people not get totally annihilated and discouraged by sneaky types like me right off the bat. However, they are the least likely ones to download it. I also liked the point @Lylith said about how it's helpful for the hearing impaired - it's good from an accessibility standpoint. Final answer on this one is that it disadvantages new players that don't have the addon. Overall I do want to say though that I think ESO PVP has a huge barrier to entry, a huge learning curve in terms of figuring out how to be effective, finding a group etc that is a real threat to the longevity of pvp in this game. I can imagine that thousands of players have entered Cyrodil, not known what the hell is going on and get killed like 20 times and decide to never come back.

Effect on the Fine Art of Ganking: As a career stamblade I do not feel threatened by this at all - ganking should be hard. While it does maybe affect your ability to Instagank some percentage of squishy people, when it comes to staying out of an unwinnable situation this helps gankers a lot.

Group PVP: As othere a have said it does have some pretty big implications in regards to group play - how you scout, defend and attack keeps etc.... this is perhaps the biggest impact for me. As an occasional group leader I cannot justify not running this addon and putting my group members at risk when other groups are running it and aware of our position.

Summary: I kinda like it in some ways and think that it wouldn't be terrible if some version of this was integrated with the native ui.

On the other hand, I completely and totally understand folks who are 100% against it - very valid points and I feel the same in some ways when it comes to immersion and not taking away the nuances of pvp and stealth gameplay, whether it's solo or group. It does creat somewhat of an uneven playing field.

As far as I'm concerned it's out there and something that does give you a small edge so for better or worse I'm likely to continue running it.... Before this one all I've ever run is auto invite and kill counter.... Who knows maybe I'll uninstall out of honor or something but this is no cheat engine / macros type of thing.

I don't feel hugely offended that I'm now "forced" to run it in order to stay competitive, nor would I feel terribly dissapointed if it went away.

Pretty middle of the road on this one - like I said I'm grateful to Miat for putting this out there for everyone to see (nice job it looks great) and for the thoughtful conversation that it has sparked.

Quite an existential issue.

God_flakes

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3612624#Comment_3612624
'
There is an excellent analysis of the way the add on tests out here. ZoS <typo: of course>'closed this thread that raises the fundamental questions on their api's function and actually compares the add on with existing anti stealth alternatives. But the OP is well worth reading.

Anyway, as a light armour wearing L2P healer I get ganked a lot. I even have a fan club of gankers who will follow me across the map to insta kill me when I am worth no AP. (How sad their lives must be!) So when I read about this add on I first rejoiced. No using magelight or flare permanently. No more Bagh*&^* repeat ganks. No more 'must wear heavy' meta!

The reason most of my guildies hate PvP is being hit from stealth when they start out, over and over, and insta killed by the same bursty stealthy NBs until they just leave Cyro. So I kinda understand the appeal of this. And since Zos don't see it as cheating, we may as well encourage them to use it.

BUT! It also means: No more tank/shield spammers trolling you into their stealthed raid. No more keeps being seiged from stealth by small groups.. No more ambush / commando style attacks. ie lots of small group strategy that makes the game fun, will be gone.

And it means even more lag. (Because all the worst api mining add ons lag out the people in the area. You can tell the CE and Hax users: mouse on them and watch your FPS plummet and your latency hit 999 plus)

But worst of all it means the new PvPers, the non forum reading people, and the ones not in the elite secret 'pass the add-on' cliques are permanent at a disadvantage. Bit like happened with Sky racing team and the tour de France, or the Russian athletes, . Eventually the game gets broken and the glory of victory is tainted for all.

The glory of victory has been tainted many times before this. Some get caught account sharing and some get caught using CE....but they don't care. Winning takes precedence over integrity all too often. And that's the mark of very poor character.

Xsorus

Oh good, I don't have to make a thread on this

Was in vent today setting up templar when my friend brought up this addon and wanted me to make a thread on it (he told me what it does and i'm like wtf)

hopefully they fix it in future patch; I can tell by looking at Kutsuu video its a pretty big advantage using it. I've personally not gotten a chance to test it out yet but they should change the API elements on this if possible or just add it to the base client as it becomes a major disadvantage not to have it at that point.

Xsorus

Derra wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Core issue because people use instagib proc sets, because you lack any defense or because you just like to run alone?
Both stealth and ganking arent issue anymore snipers in FPS games or gankers in MOBA games are.

The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build).

ku5h wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Stealthganking a core issue? Since when? In 10hrs of gameplay I might get ganked 1-2 times max and thats mostly by 2+ ppl in sinc. Much worse then gankers imo are "God mode" DKs and Templars that can facetank 10 ppl and still burst squishy players in couple of sec. Stealthganking core issue......lol

Maybe if you did something else than zergsurfing you might get ganked from stealth more often.

If i just stick to my factions zerg (which i do more and more often nowadays) i don´t get ganked often. If at all.
Ironically i stick to my factions zergs because if i don´t the only thing i encounter is gankblades and since the addition of proccsets even mediocre players have the chance to simply oneshot me from invisibility.

"The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build)."

Radiant Magelight, Defensive Rune (on sorcerer). Either or both of these will prevent you from getting oneshot, and buy you enough time to cast your shields and get ready to fight. Though if you're in the squishiest armor type, shouldn't you be vulnerable to getting hit hard? I'm saying this as somebody who mains magicka, running 5 light on most of my builds.

Funny enough both don´t save you against a proccgank with => heavybow, incap + viper, veli/selene, poisons.
The enemy is hit by defensive rune when everything has fired - given proper execution.

Also radiant is not an option as i pve on my char.

I´m fine with getting hit hard. I just don´t think instantkills from invisibility should be possible. And so far i´ve never heared a reason why they should be. They´re the epitome of unfun gameplay.

Edit: If you want an advantage from you sneak attack - remove the dmg bonus and stun and instead implement a 10s 50% cost increase to magica and stamina on the victim.
That´s a tremendous advantage and still promotes a fight after the attack instead of instant death.

Defensive Rune will 100% save you from a procgank, they'll be CCed after the heavy bow attack goes off and won't be able to complete their combo. There's no way to "delay" the CC until after you've completed your combo AFAIK.

As for Radiant, if it's there and you don't choose to take advantage of it, that's on you. It's pretty cheap to swap morphs.

The problem is if properly executed the bow attack will hit after the incap strike (no ambush) when the heavy bow is canceled with incap - now you just need proccluck.

I don´t agree that having to respec morphs two times a day is cheap - nor is it comfortable to execute. Also having to slot a specific skill that´s otherwise useless should in my opinion not exist in a game only offering 10 skillslots (especially as only radiant won´t save me - you´d need radiant + defensive rune - which is 20% of your skillslots just to counter a mechanic that should not exist in the first place).

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Core issue because people use instagib proc sets, because you lack any defense or because you just like to run alone?
Both stealth and ganking arent issue anymore snipers in FPS games or gankers in MOBA games are.

The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build).

For a moment i will ignore fact that there should not be any defense for paper characters to ever survive 1v1 gank from maxDMG character.

The real problem you dont see, that this "problem" of yours goes both ways. While there is no defense against getting instagibbed as paper characters, there also is no offense (lets also ignore overpowered proc sets for a moment, they are obvious issue in normal duel alone) for gankers to take down tanky characters.

You say you want "defense" against getting instagibbed, while you are perfectly aware there is nothing the gankers get from not insta killing you. You pop your little shield and heals and instantly reset the fight and look for "fair" duel (im still ignoring the overpoweness of proc sets, thats issue for another topic) while having all the good cards to win such engagement.

Now back to the first sentence. Why you feel entitled to having defense by playing as paper (with titanium cover once spooked) against people that play as razor. You probably kill all those "razor" players once they are out of stealth, usually with friends helping you. So why is your mind telling you, you are entitled to have defense for the only situation where are you at your weakest, while gankers are their strongest form.

There are many issues with stealth, ganking and nightblades overall. But lets stop pretending they are overpowered. They are sharks in deep sea, and you are swimming there in nothing but your swim suit while others are aboard aircraft carriers or submarines and all important battles are on the ground.

I just want actual fights to happen. I can not instantly kill people. People can always see me. That´s the difference and it´s a big one.

It should not be possible to instantly kill people from invisibility. There is no way to justify that in a pvp game. It´s idiocy. It´s impossible to create fun gameplay out that situation. Therefor the situation should not occur.

So you can argue all you want. My statement is instantkills should not be possible (especially from invisibility) and i don´t think you or anyone else can justify why they should be.

Edit: If you think uncounterable instantkills are somehow a good thing to have in a game don´t bother to reply. I don´t think there is any sense in arguing in that case.

These instakills are counterable, (harder now with proc sets). You just choose not to counter it. If you're running around alone with light divines light armor you arent allowed to have chance to react. Not to mention if your reaction would be heal and shield and instantly have better defense than ganker, while completly negating effect (damage dealt) of his gank.

I am running around as nightblade in medium armor (5x impen) with radiant magelight and vampire passives and it even feels unfair I get to survive almost every gank.

Btw every fast paced PVP game ever has some mechanic that allows instakilling unaware enemies. Stop bringing out argument if you lack any experience. *** TF2 had whole class dedicated to instakill players.

They are not counterable in light armor while still retaining an effective build.
I´m running 2500impen 24k health. Yet a properly executed proccgank will still oneshot me without time to react.

Edit: Why am i even replying to someone comparing an mmo to a team based shooter? Apples and coconuts i guess.

Derra run Pirates......Sypher said it was pretty powerful in PvP so I decided to try it and its bloody night and day with that Monster Set

Riejael

Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

I don't give two care's about principles. If its allowed its allowed. They may change API calls in the future which will render parts of the addon inert, and I could care less about that too.

I'm not going to follow your idea of the rules. Screw your idea. Who the hell are you? No seriously, who the hell do you think you are? Not being mean or derogatory, just think about what you are saying and how much impact you actually have on others.

Did you stomp your feet while you typed this?

Did you get triggered to a safespace before getting to the last sentence? I'll bold and underline it for you. God damn, millennial, I spelled out the sarcasm and it still went over your head.

Minalan

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Core issue because people use instagib proc sets, because you lack any defense or because you just like to run alone?
Both stealth and ganking arent issue anymore snipers in FPS games or gankers in MOBA games are.

The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build).

ku5h wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Stealthganking a core issue? Since when? In 10hrs of gameplay I might get ganked 1-2 times max and thats mostly by 2+ ppl in sinc. Much worse then gankers imo are "God mode" DKs and Templars that can facetank 10 ppl and still burst squishy players in couple of sec. Stealthganking core issue......lol

Maybe if you did something else than zergsurfing you might get ganked from stealth more often.

If i just stick to my factions zerg (which i do more and more often nowadays) i don´t get ganked often. If at all.
Ironically i stick to my factions zergs because if i don´t the only thing i encounter is gankblades and since the addition of proccsets even mediocre players have the chance to simply oneshot me from invisibility.

"The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build)."

Radiant Magelight, Defensive Rune (on sorcerer). Either or both of these will prevent you from getting oneshot, and buy you enough time to cast your shields and get ready to fight. Though if you're in the squishiest armor type, shouldn't you be vulnerable to getting hit hard? I'm saying this as somebody who mains magicka, running 5 light on most of my builds.

Funny enough both don´t save you against a proccgank with => heavybow, incap + viper, veli/selene, poisons.
The enemy is hit by defensive rune when everything has fired - given proper execution.

Also radiant is not an option as i pve on my char.

I´m fine with getting hit hard. I just don´t think instantkills from invisibility should be possible. And so far i´ve never heared a reason why they should be. They´re the epitome of unfun gameplay.

Edit: If you want an advantage from you sneak attack - remove the dmg bonus and stun and instead implement a 10s 50% cost increase to magica and stamina on the victim.
That´s a tremendous advantage and still promotes a fight after the attack instead of instant death.

Defensive Rune will 100% save you from a procgank, they'll be CCed after the heavy bow attack goes off and won't be able to complete their combo. There's no way to "delay" the CC until after you've completed your combo AFAIK.

As for Radiant, if it's there and you don't choose to take advantage of it, that's on you. It's pretty cheap to swap morphs.

The problem is if properly executed the bow attack will hit after the incap strike (no ambush) when the heavy bow is canceled with incap - now you just need proccluck.

I don´t agree that having to respec morphs two times a day is cheap - nor is it comfortable to execute. Also having to slot a specific skill that´s otherwise useless should in my opinion not exist in a game only offering 10 skillslots (especially as only radiant won´t save me - you´d need radiant + defensive rune - which is 20% of your skillslots just to counter a mechanic that should not exist in the first place).

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Core issue because people use instagib proc sets, because you lack any defense or because you just like to run alone?
Both stealth and ganking arent issue anymore snipers in FPS games or gankers in MOBA games are.

The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build).

For a moment i will ignore fact that there should not be any defense for paper characters to ever survive 1v1 gank from maxDMG character.

The real problem you dont see, that this "problem" of yours goes both ways. While there is no defense against getting instagibbed as paper characters, there also is no offense (lets also ignore overpowered proc sets for a moment, they are obvious issue in normal duel alone) for gankers to take down tanky characters.

You say you want "defense" against getting instagibbed, while you are perfectly aware there is nothing the gankers get from not insta killing you. You pop your little shield and heals and instantly reset the fight and look for "fair" duel (im still ignoring the overpoweness of proc sets, thats issue for another topic) while having all the good cards to win such engagement.

Now back to the first sentence. Why you feel entitled to having defense by playing as paper (with titanium cover once spooked) against people that play as razor. You probably kill all those "razor" players once they are out of stealth, usually with friends helping you. So why is your mind telling you, you are entitled to have defense for the only situation where are you at your weakest, while gankers are their strongest form.

There are many issues with stealth, ganking and nightblades overall. But lets stop pretending they are overpowered. They are sharks in deep sea, and you are swimming there in nothing but your swim suit while others are aboard aircraft carriers or submarines and all important battles are on the ground.

I just want actual fights to happen. I can not instantly kill people. People can always see me. That´s the difference and it´s a big one.

It should not be possible to instantly kill people from invisibility. There is no way to justify that in a pvp game. It´s idiocy. It´s impossible to create fun gameplay out that situation. Therefor the situation should not occur.

So you can argue all you want. My statement is instantkills should not be possible (especially from invisibility) and i don´t think you or anyone else can justify why they should be.

Edit: If you think uncounterable instantkills are somehow a good thing to have in a game don´t bother to reply. I don´t think there is any sense in arguing in that case.

These instakills are counterable, (harder now with proc sets). You just choose not to counter it. If you're running around alone with light divines light armor you arent allowed to have chance to react. Not to mention if your reaction would be heal and shield and instantly have better defense than ganker, while completly negating effect (damage dealt) of his gank.

I am running around as nightblade in medium armor (5x impen) with radiant magelight and vampire passives and it even feels unfair I get to survive almost every gank.

Btw every fast paced PVP game ever has some mechanic that allows instakilling unaware enemies. Stop bringing out argument if you lack any experience. *** TF2 had whole class dedicated to instakill players.

They are not counterable in light armor while still retaining an effective build.
I´m running 2500impen 24k health. Yet a properly executed proccgank will still oneshot me without time to react.

Edit: Why am i even replying to someone comparing an mmo to a team based shooter? Apples and coconuts i guess.

Derra run Pirates......Sypher said it was pretty powerful in PvP so I decided to try it and its bloody night and day with that Monster Set

Derra is right. Pirates set is a 6% proc chance on a one shot kill. That's not going to save you from the other 94% of ganks, it only helps when you're under pressure with shields up already.

What's wrong is a fundamentally incompetent game design problem: Shadows of the Hist handed nuclear weapons to all of the invisible shark players. What the hell do you expect those people to do with them? Why in the world does a spammable attack out of stealth in PVP stun the victim, deal way increased damage, activate poisons, and then cascade a mountain of proc damage? Were ZOS devs not paying attention to this at all?

Take off the stun at least. Give people a chance to get up and fight back. Hand nightblades better defense instead so that the fight is actually two sided. People complain about shield stacking, but I wouldn't need it if I could actually get up off the floor half of the time.

Kriptiq

This addon is completely disgusting and feels like hacks to be honest.
Today I learned about this addon tested it with a friend of mine, and i have to say it explains a whole ton about why people keep blocking immediately before i can even charge up ANY abilities that this addon tracks from stealth , it completely defeats the whole purpose of the stealth mechanic and definitely needs to be patched away asap

This is a cool feature to know if players are lurking in stealth and count nearby allies / enemies
BUT to be able to know if someone is about to attack you is not only unfair but insanely broken.

Katahdin

This addon needs to go. ZoS needs to change the API so that it can no longer function.
It completely breaks a fundamental aspect of the game and an entire class.
You should not be able to know how many players are around you unless you physically see them.

The whole point of a surprise attack is just that: surprise.

While this may not be a "radar" per se. It is a proximity indicator and an advance warning system and it should not be allowed, period.

Proc sets started us down a slippery slope with being killed by underwear and this just adds more grease to the skids.

If this is allowed, you can expect most of the PvPers to be gone from Cyrodil and the game if not immediately then as soon as ANY viable game comes along. I enjoy PvP as well as PvE in this game. I play both for a change and diversity from the other.

If this is allowed to stay, there is absolutely no reason to go back into Cyrodil ever again and will, at some point drastically reduce my time spent in this game as I get all my characters through the PvE stuff. It will also drastically reduce my incentives to spend money on crowns and prompt me to cancel my sub if I am not spending time in this game.

Think about this carefully ZoS, and do the right thing. Stop the functionality of this addon ASAP.

TARAFRAKA

Skcarkden wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Mountain33r wrote: »

So I checked it out, played with this addon last night. Everyone spewing doom and gloom is just ignorant. Test if for yourself, there is nothing game breaking here. Actually @mtwiggz is right the only thing really helpful is the player counts.

Showing names of stealth players on your screen; it does show if someone has stealth near you recently in which you may not have seen because you were focused on something else?. Not the location of them. Also if your volume is up, you can actually hear people cast abilities while stealth unless I am getting some kind of magic, which was before using this addon. There were times last night, that no names were the list and I got ganked by a player in stealth near me, happen a lot actually. No indication or any sort of heads up.

It's just good information, but nothing game breaking, least from what I tested. Unless there is something I am missing (MAGIC).

So are you seriously implying that knowing the second someone begins a gank attempt on you isnt a HUGE advantage??????

You can literally set it up so it plays a unique sound when someone is attacking you from stealth!!!

I am forced to play Devil's advocate. How much of an unfair advantage do these one button wonder stealth gankers have when their target doesn't even have one second to form a defense?

You're actually not playing devils advocate, so much as playing "you have a valid point, but i prefer the other way so i'll make *** up"

This is the kind of nonsense why almost all modern multiplayer games (if not all) with sniper rifles have such an annoying and stupid laser beam always showing whenever anyone looks down their scopes, because some kid cried "I got shot and i can't find them!" followed by stupid complains that people shouldn't be able to hide and instead *must* have their presence specifically highlighted when they do make an attempt to shoot.

But as for this addon? it's another beast altogether, the default game doesn't make a point of telling you "Hey, there are people still alive nearby, keep your guard up!" so there is absolutely no reason why any mod should be allowed to exist do so either.

now follow that logic allll the way thru homeslice.
the default game doesnt show locations of nodes, lorebooks, skyshards, auto decon and refine mats, change gear, post dos and healing meters either....bit those ARE all addons incidentally....so by your logic those all need to go too.
L2Logic homeswizzle.

Riejael

Katahdin wrote: »

This addon needs to go. ZoS needs to change the API so that it can no longer function.
It completely breaks a fundamental aspect of the game and an entire class.
You should not be able to know how many players are around you unless you physically see them.

Statements like this are ill-thought out. Change the API. Like all of it? Doing so would break dozens of legitimate PVE addons. You want to see a crapstorm? Break a dozen popular PVE addons because of one PVP one.

Thankfully, the devs are smarter than that.

The whole point of a surprise attack is just that: surprise.

This is a balance issue that really has nothing to do with the thread. You're not the reason this thread went down that way so I won't blame you.

While this may not be a "radar" per se. It is a proximity indicator and an advance warning system and it should not be allowed, period.

I don't actually believe this is a valid argument.



That's part of the base UI of PS2 (a game with a system very close to Cyrodil). While its unprecedented in ESO. That doesn't seem to be the part that has the devs concerned. We'll likely not see this changed, or if it is it won't be entirely removed.

If this is allowed, you can expect most of the PvPers to be gone from Cyrodil and the game if not immediately then as soon as ANY viable game comes along. I enjoy PvP as well as PvE in this game. I play both for a change and diversity from the other.

If this is allowed to stay, there is absolutely no reason to go back into Cyrodil ever again and will, at some point drastically reduce my time spent in this game as I get all my characters through the PvE stuff. It will also drastically reduce my incentives to spend money on crowns and prompt me to cancel my sub if I am not spending time in this game.

Think about this carefully ZoS, and do the right thing. Stop the functionality of this addon ASAP.

This is sensationalizing at best. While some may quit out of principle, I doubt many actually will. What is more likely is many will use the addon themselves and deal with it. Some may stop PVPing, while others will just play as normal. But what is also likely is some may actually start PVPing because of the availability of the addon.

You all are NOT looking at this from an unbiased, unemotional, and realistic point of view. And you all are going on and on about the most unobtrusive part of the addon as well.

If I listened to the complaints in this thread. I'd come to the conclusion that Most people play ganking stealthers in Cyrodil. Maybe I don't see them, but from my point of view most people don't. So why are you all acting like this is something crazy? Well I can answer that. The addon adds features that gives someone who downloads it an advantage. One you have to match by downloading it too.

That ticks you off on principle. We got that. But then you've latched on to ONE argument. One polarizing argument. The fact that stealthers aren't so stealthy. And why not? Its a great argument on paper. "Oh this class and such is useless now, no addon should counter an entire playstyle! Surely it must be banned! How could anyone disagree?"

That's bait and you all know it. You know there are players who don't like having to deal with gankers (and I'm not saying they're right). So you're just trying to troll them while making a point. I mean why not? They do it in politics all the time.

The other side of the argument is just as ridiculous. They go on some holy crusade about how ganking is wrong and that they are just trying to even the playing field. See.. this is why I don't PVP in this game. Its full of CAREBEARS. They can't handle stealthers and don't want to take precautions and GOD FORBID if you tell them to group in a MMO. Holy crap that's absolute heresy.

Both sides are arguing points that are ridiculous and have nothing to do with the real damage this addon is causing. Both sides are blind to the fact that their issue is minuscule. That nothing will change when the devs actually implement the change to the real issue that the addon brings. And if you're curious to what that is, feel free to read my past posts in this thread. Or better yet read the dev response on page 2 or 3 I think it is and come to your own conclusion if you can.

But when that update happens, and mark my words, I'm calling it right here. When it happens, you will see those who support the addon go on some BS tirade about how their toy was nerfed. While those who are against the addon will cry BS as well about how the devs didn't go far enough.

That's exactly what will happen. Just wait and see.

Enslaved

Maikon wrote: »

99% of those raging about this are stealthers, and 99% of those stealthers exploit the viper set when they know it's broken. Therefore 99% of this thread is a double standard and invald.

100% of those approving this addon are destro ulti zergs or zerg wannabes who exploit destro ulti, radiant destruction, unpurgeable curse, IG monster set, when they know it's broken. Also, they endorse cheating and should be suspended/banned/ put into jail for 20 years. Therefore 100% of these cheaters have double standards, need third wheel on their PvP pony bike and are somewhat invalid irl.

Tanks do not fear gankers.
Real sorcs do not fear gankers.
Gankers are most feared by other gankers imho. And complete noobs. Noobs are afraid of gankers.

Laggus

Kodrac wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

To me it is. The same goes for addons which tell you when to dodge roll/evade or when a projectile is incoming.

Have you seen the little tutorial popup on the bottom of the screen that tells you to double tap an arrow key to dodge roll? That's all the addons use. It's already a part of the game but they make it more obvious by adding text in the middle of the screen.

Just because you ignore these tutorial popups or are blind to them doesn't make an addon that uses them cheating. You're just showing your ignorance is all.

Tutorials attempt to teach the hypothetical. This addon informs you in advance of actual. Who is actually about and who is about to hit you in advance of the action. It's simply too much information imo.

Ommy71

RIP PC PVP

Horker

KOS, iknow what to do: [01:57] Big Boss The Dark Phoenix: ONLY UR THIRD PROGRAM ARE GOOD FOR U

Xsorus

Minalan wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Core issue because people use instagib proc sets, because you lack any defense or because you just like to run alone?
Both stealth and ganking arent issue anymore snipers in FPS games or gankers in MOBA games are.

The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build).

ku5h wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Stealthganking a core issue? Since when? In 10hrs of gameplay I might get ganked 1-2 times max and thats mostly by 2+ ppl in sinc. Much worse then gankers imo are "God mode" DKs and Templars that can facetank 10 ppl and still burst squishy players in couple of sec. Stealthganking core issue......lol

Maybe if you did something else than zergsurfing you might get ganked from stealth more often.

If i just stick to my factions zerg (which i do more and more often nowadays) i don´t get ganked often. If at all.
Ironically i stick to my factions zergs because if i don´t the only thing i encounter is gankblades and since the addition of proccsets even mediocre players have the chance to simply oneshot me from invisibility.

"The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build)."

Radiant Magelight, Defensive Rune (on sorcerer). Either or both of these will prevent you from getting oneshot, and buy you enough time to cast your shields and get ready to fight. Though if you're in the squishiest armor type, shouldn't you be vulnerable to getting hit hard? I'm saying this as somebody who mains magicka, running 5 light on most of my builds.

Funny enough both don´t save you against a proccgank with => heavybow, incap + viper, veli/selene, poisons.
The enemy is hit by defensive rune when everything has fired - given proper execution.

Also radiant is not an option as i pve on my char.

I´m fine with getting hit hard. I just don´t think instantkills from invisibility should be possible. And so far i´ve never heared a reason why they should be. They´re the epitome of unfun gameplay.

Edit: If you want an advantage from you sneak attack - remove the dmg bonus and stun and instead implement a 10s 50% cost increase to magica and stamina on the victim.
That´s a tremendous advantage and still promotes a fight after the attack instead of instant death.

Defensive Rune will 100% save you from a procgank, they'll be CCed after the heavy bow attack goes off and won't be able to complete their combo. There's no way to "delay" the CC until after you've completed your combo AFAIK.

As for Radiant, if it's there and you don't choose to take advantage of it, that's on you. It's pretty cheap to swap morphs.

The problem is if properly executed the bow attack will hit after the incap strike (no ambush) when the heavy bow is canceled with incap - now you just need proccluck.

I don´t agree that having to respec morphs two times a day is cheap - nor is it comfortable to execute. Also having to slot a specific skill that´s otherwise useless should in my opinion not exist in a game only offering 10 skillslots (especially as only radiant won´t save me - you´d need radiant + defensive rune - which is 20% of your skillslots just to counter a mechanic that should not exist in the first place).

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

What an absolutely stupid addition to the game. Everyone will use it.

What I see here are a small minority of idiots being able to legitimately ruin the experience for everyone else. If you aren't using it, you are truly at a disadvantage,

Who would have thought that PvP would be better on console now than on PC? And for all reasons, this is due to the lack of add-ons!

Smh...

Well guess that´s true about stealth aswell...

Stealthganking is the core issue and why i think this addon is a good addition to the game.

Core issue because people use instagib proc sets, because you lack any defense or because you just like to run alone?
Both stealth and ganking arent issue anymore snipers in FPS games or gankers in MOBA games are.

The problem is there is no defense available against getting instagibbed from stealth (Edit: on a light armor Build).

For a moment i will ignore fact that there should not be any defense for paper characters to ever survive 1v1 gank from maxDMG character.

The real problem you dont see, that this "problem" of yours goes both ways. While there is no defense against getting instagibbed as paper characters, there also is no offense (lets also ignore overpowered proc sets for a moment, they are obvious issue in normal duel alone) for gankers to take down tanky characters.

You say you want "defense" against getting instagibbed, while you are perfectly aware there is nothing the gankers get from not insta killing you. You pop your little shield and heals and instantly reset the fight and look for "fair" duel (im still ignoring the overpoweness of proc sets, thats issue for another topic) while having all the good cards to win such engagement.

Now back to the first sentence. Why you feel entitled to having defense by playing as paper (with titanium cover once spooked) against people that play as razor. You probably kill all those "razor" players once they are out of stealth, usually with friends helping you. So why is your mind telling you, you are entitled to have defense for the only situation where are you at your weakest, while gankers are their strongest form.

There are many issues with stealth, ganking and nightblades overall. But lets stop pretending they are overpowered. They are sharks in deep sea, and you are swimming there in nothing but your swim suit while others are aboard aircraft carriers or submarines and all important battles are on the ground.

I just want actual fights to happen. I can not instantly kill people. People can always see me. That´s the difference and it´s a big one.

It should not be possible to instantly kill people from invisibility. There is no way to justify that in a pvp game. It´s idiocy. It´s impossible to create fun gameplay out that situation. Therefor the situation should not occur.

So you can argue all you want. My statement is instantkills should not be possible (especially from invisibility) and i don´t think you or anyone else can justify why they should be.

Edit: If you think uncounterable instantkills are somehow a good thing to have in a game don´t bother to reply. I don´t think there is any sense in arguing in that case.

These instakills are counterable, (harder now with proc sets). You just choose not to counter it. If you're running around alone with light divines light armor you arent allowed to have chance to react. Not to mention if your reaction would be heal and shield and instantly have better defense than ganker, while completly negating effect (damage dealt) of his gank.

I am running around as nightblade in medium armor (5x impen) with radiant magelight and vampire passives and it even feels unfair I get to survive almost every gank.

Btw every fast paced PVP game ever has some mechanic that allows instakilling unaware enemies. Stop bringing out argument if you lack any experience. *** TF2 had whole class dedicated to instakill players.

They are not counterable in light armor while still retaining an effective build.
I´m running 2500impen 24k health. Yet a properly executed proccgank will still oneshot me without time to react.

Edit: Why am i even replying to someone comparing an mmo to a team based shooter? Apples and coconuts i guess.

Derra run Pirates......Sypher said it was pretty powerful in PvP so I decided to try it and its bloody night and day with that Monster Set

Derra is right. Pirates set is a 6% proc chance on a one shot kill. That's not going to save you from the other 94% of ganks, it only helps when you're under pressure with shields up already.

What's wrong is a fundamentally incompetent game design problem: Shadows of the Hist handed nuclear weapons to all of the invisible shark players. What the hell do you expect those people to do with them? Why in the world does a spammable attack out of stealth in PVP stun the victim, deal way increased damage, activate poisons, and then cascade a mountain of proc damage? Were ZOS devs not paying attention to this at all?

Take off the stun at least. Give people a chance to get up and fight back. Hand nightblades better defense instead so that the fight is actually two sided. People complain about shield stacking, but I wouldn't need it if I could actually get up off the floor half of the time.

Pirates isn't for surviving the one shot kill (though if it procs you're pretty much going to survive it)

Defensive Rune handles that problem, or just having your shields up...Soon as it Procs though you're pretty much going to face tank anything a lot of stuff....

I also find it surprising you guys are acting like the one shots are new or something in this game?

If you were a vampire just a few patches ago I could flat out one shot you 100% of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llEi8Cw5kmw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

Edziu

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Mountain33r wrote: »

So I checked it out, played with this addon last night. Everyone spewing doom and gloom is just ignorant. Test if for yourself, there is nothing game breaking here. Actually @mtwiggz is right the only thing really helpful is the player counts.

Showing names of stealth players on your screen; it does show if someone has stealth near you recently in which you may not have seen because you were focused on something else?. Not the location of them. Also if your volume is up, you can actually hear people cast abilities while stealth unless I am getting some kind of magic, which was before using this addon. There were times last night, that no names were the list and I got ganked by a player in stealth near me, happen a lot actually. No indication or any sort of heads up.

It's just good information, but nothing game breaking, least from what I tested. Unless there is something I am missing (MAGIC).

So are you seriously implying that knowing the second someone begins a gank attempt on you isnt a HUGE advantage??????

You can literally set it up so it plays a unique sound when someone is attacking you from stealth!!!

I am forced to play Devil's advocate. How much of an unfair advantage do these one button wonder stealth gankers have when their target doesn't even have one second to form a defense?

You're actually not playing devils advocate, so much as playing "you have a valid point, but i prefer the other way so i'll make *** up"

This is the kind of nonsense why almost all modern multiplayer games (if not all) with sniper rifles have such an annoying and stupid laser beam always showing whenever anyone looks down their scopes, because some kid cried "I got shot and i can't find them!" followed by stupid complains that people shouldn't be able to hide and instead *must* have their presence specifically highlighted when they do make an attempt to shoot.

But as for this addon? it's another beast altogether, the default game doesn't make a point of telling you "Hey, there are people still alive nearby, keep your guard up!" so there is absolutely no reason why any mod should be allowed to exist do so either.

now follow that logic allll the way thru homeslice.
the default game doesnt show locations of nodes, lorebooks, skyshards, auto decon and refine mats, change gear, post dos and healing meters either....bit those ARE all addons incidentally....so by your logic those all need to go too.
L2Logic homeswizzle.

at all loog on those addans which you wrote and for this "miats"

with miats you have much less chance to gang someone if at all you have this chance by this addon, so playing as squsishy gangers is going to be garbage etc, rest you can see in rest this thread

those addons which you wrote are purely for pve and most of them just to easier game:
- to refine mats, you have few tousands...so you dont need to spam 1 click by few mins to refine it all,
- lorebooks or skyshards - dont need to searching this by hours to get them all,
- change gear - dont need waste your time and your mates in group by swaping gear or skills from trash to boss etc or while changing role, post damage meters...
- uhhs its going to be cheat? if you have 2 DD in group and boss isnt going down to good like in exp group, then you can please DD to link thei dps and then you can see 1 DD is very good, know what to do and 2nd you see he is slacking and by this he is just unable to end hardest thing

some addons are must have on pve like for vMoLwhile you getting change colours on 2nd boss etc..sometimes its just not showing to you and then only you wiping your group.... with thisaddon you have pure info you need change your side aswell if you dont see a colour change on you. On pve addons are more useful to some facilitate game or just help to nto struggle in some things, on pvp all addons arnt needed like on pve, maybe just some smallers to some info like kill counter etc but this "miats" addon is just cheat to prevent anyone playing in stealth, it can be compare d like on pve will be crated addon which will calling you from which node in craglorn you will get nirncrux maybe or idk...I dont see how to cheat in pve except macro to use 5 or more skills by using only 1 button

Arthg

This mess, once again, is ZOS's alone.

The API makes game-changing data available for addon makers to use.
Calls for bans are therefore exaggerated and unfair.

Such crucial information as who enters stealth or starts a stealthy attack should either:
1) be removed from the API;
2) or made available to everyone by default.

Whoever is in favour of how things are at the moment clearly has no idea what fair play is.

InvitationNotFound

well... let's start with this:
I don't like this addon and what it reveals. I guess it is well written and thought through (credit to that at least), but i guess it will change game play and add more crap to the game.

But anyway, my opinion doesn't really matter as there is now an official ZOS statement (earlier in this thread) that says: feel free to use it.
So what is happening is that people are going to use it. Including organized groups.
Whoever doesn't use that addon will have a disadvantage. For that reason I've added this addon and I was playing yesterday with it and will continue playing with it as everyone else does or will do.
It is right you can come up with sportsmanship and may believe it is unethical and you might even be right.
Unfortunately, being *** over again and again by being ethical isn't fun and i guess this game is meant to be fun (at least it used to be somewhere in the past). And yes, I'd prefer seeing this addon being removed respectively the API should be adjusted.

The first thread i came across this addon was the following one:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/309095/detailed-feedback-on-miats-pvp-alerts-after-testing-and-some-concerns-with-the-capacity-of-add-ons

What I'm more concerned with is the comment about the protected API, which would be a bigger issue.
See my comment in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3612333/#Comment_3612333

Tan9oSuccka

Glorious Master Race,

How is an add on that alerts you of stealth enemies in your direct area - not cheating?

Sincerely,

Console Pleb

God_flakes

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Mountain33r wrote: »

So I checked it out, played with this addon last night. Everyone spewing doom and gloom is just ignorant. Test if for yourself, there is nothing game breaking here. Actually @mtwiggz is right the only thing really helpful is the player counts.

Showing names of stealth players on your screen; it does show if someone has stealth near you recently in which you may not have seen because you were focused on something else?. Not the location of them. Also if your volume is up, you can actually hear people cast abilities while stealth unless I am getting some kind of magic, which was before using this addon. There were times last night, that no names were the list and I got ganked by a player in stealth near me, happen a lot actually. No indication or any sort of heads up.

It's just good information, but nothing game breaking, least from what I tested. Unless there is something I am missing (MAGIC).

So are you seriously implying that knowing the second someone begins a gank attempt on you isnt a HUGE advantage??????

You can literally set it up so it plays a unique sound when someone is attacking you from stealth!!!

I am forced to play Devil's advocate. How much of an unfair advantage do these one button wonder stealth gankers have when their target doesn't even have one second to form a defense?

You're actually not playing devils advocate, so much as playing "you have a valid point, but i prefer the other way so i'll make *** up"

This is the kind of nonsense why almost all modern multiplayer games (if not all) with sniper rifles have such an annoying and stupid laser beam always showing whenever anyone looks down their scopes, because some kid cried "I got shot and i can't find them!" followed by stupid complains that people shouldn't be able to hide and instead *must* have their presence specifically highlighted when they do make an attempt to shoot.

But as for this addon? it's another beast altogether, the default game doesn't make a point of telling you "Hey, there are people still alive nearby, keep your guard up!" so there is absolutely no reason why any mod should be allowed to exist do so either.

now follow that logic allll the way thru homeslice.
the default game doesnt show locations of nodes, lorebooks, skyshards, auto decon and refine mats, change gear, post dos and healing meters either....bit those ARE all addons incidentally....so by your logic those all need to go too.
L2Logic homeswizzle.

Those things are all pretty benign, homeboy. They don't give you an unfair battle advantage in pvp, homefry.

hobicabobjob

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Glorious Master Race,

How is an add on that alerts you of stealth enemies in your direct area - not cheating?

Sincerely,

Console Pleb

Also tells you that an invisible attack is coming. Meanwhile throwing mudballs at people near dye stations a bannable offense.

Breaks my immersion. Or whatever I have to say to get some dev attention out here in pvp land.

altemriel

this addon is ************* ************ *****************f*********, not that stealth is bugged, now even a nerf addon, wth???

Joy_Division

Not like ZoS would ever listen to me, let alone even see a post on page 14. But My thoughts:

• @Dorrino - I understand your motivations, but have you ever considered how much of a disadvantage people who don't use your add-on face? I've seen you play, you only die two ways pretty much: ganked and zerged down (though I've never actually seen you get ganked). Now I guess you don;t have to worry about the former anymore. With all this access to information that your opponents who do not have this add-on , you have to make less sacrifices to your build, don't have to worry about what's on "the other side of the hill" when attacking. How many times have I gone after what I thought to be a single player, only to see 20 of her buddies just behind a ruin or something? This is the part of your add-on that worries me the most.
• @ZoS , the reason this AP exists in the first place is because you made stealth way to trivial to obtain and made the damage from it unacceptably high. One-shots should never be a thing. Either develop/get this add-on or zerg, That's what your game has turned into.
• That state of PvP is crazy with the destro ult, proc sets, one-shots, do-it-all buillds. You know how I've dealt with it? Roll around in a "cancerplar" with 46K health. Since I did, it has put an end to all that insta-death crap and at least has allowed me to survive for more than two seconds and actually react and play.
• It's going to take a lot more for ZoS to make PvP enjoyable for anyone than simply disabling the ability for add-ons like this to do what they do. Every night I log in I see NBs insta-kill players from stealth and while I guess it must be fun to do that, it sure isn;t fun to be on the receiving end to it. Nothing happens in a vacuum gankers: that's why people create add-ons like this and zerg.

OutLaw_Nynx

I haven't read through all of this but I'm assuming the majority of people who are upset are the ones that stack proc sets and are now salty because they can't one shot people from stealth?

SanTii.92

Enslaved wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Tanks do not fear gankers.
Real sorcs do not fear gankers.
Gankers are most feared by other gankers imho. And complete noobs. Noobs are afraid of gankers.

Dude that was beautiful.

Hurika

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I haven't read through all of this but I'm assuming the majority of people who are upset are the ones that stack proc sets and are now salty because they can't one shot people from stealth?

No I think most are those that try to surprise their enemy to gain a tactical advantage in combat regardless of what sets they use.

However there are a few folks that like to post useless salty comments that don't really offer any value.

Psychodellix

Nightbaldes use stealth the sameway the mag sorcs use shields. IT is our defense. So by allowing this addon in to help nerf the stealth of a night blade, I feel that Stamblades should be givin a shield equal to that of a mag sorc. Stamblades have *** survivabilty as it is. Basicly ruined a style of gameplay by allowing this addon

Thornen

ommyboy wrote: »

RIP PC PVP

The funeral was several weeks ago shortly after 1 tam released anyway.

Kodrac

Laggus wrote: »

Tutorials attempt to teach the hypothetical. This addon informs you in advance of actual. Who is actually about and who is about to hit you in advance of the action. It's simply too much information imo.

I was responding to his accusation of cheating. There's nothing hypothetical about it. It's already there as part of the base game, one of the first things you see in the tutorial starter area. It's not a hypothetical when the game tells you an attack is incoming do this to avoid it right there on your screen. When an addon changes this prompt to flashy big words in the middle of your screen instead of a prompt at the bottom as part of the base ui, it's not cheating.

EnviousStruggle

so guys
Surprise Attack is no longer a surprise, huh?