99% of those raging about this are stealthers, and 99% of those stealthers exploit the viper set when they know it's broken. Therefore 99% of this thread is a double standard and invald.
Ganking should give you an advantage in a fight through the element of surprise and getting the first attack off. It shouldn't just end the fight immediately because you got lucky, or the other person wanted to wear light armor.
"Why shouldn't I 1-shot you from stealth if I build for it?" - several people in this thread.
LOL.
Ganking should give you an advantage in a fight through the element of surprise and getting the first attack off. It shouldn't just end the fight immediately because you got lucky, or the other person wanted to wear light armor.
I would say the unsurmountable advantage is when you can see, for example, that 4 enemy players whose builds and playstyle you know well are nearby in stealth. Your group can react perfectly then and won't get surprised by them anymore.
Edit: This difference, having the addon or not having it, will change the outcome of the encounter in my example.
- If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
Another fun fact is you can troll people who have this addon. Here's what you do: Stand about 25-30m away from them. Get on your melee bar (2h, DW, 1h/shield whatever), target them (keep cursor pointed at them so they are highlighted/focused), and just spam heavy attacks. They will be spammed with notifications that you're stealth attacking them. Last night every time I found someone using the addon, I would follow them around for a while just spamming heavy attacks. It's hilarious to watch them dodge around, spam buffs, try to find me, hold block, and generally spaz out while I'm just sitting on a rock swinging at air.
Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I don't buy the obliterating ganking argument. When dealing with above average gankers, this add-on will just serve to let non-Tanks know they are about to die.
My issue is that it is the only public addon the grants users an insurmountable combat advantage. It will impact Cyrodiil as a whole not just certain play styles.
If those non-tanks are alerted that they're about to be shot, there's a lot they can do about it. Shuffle, dodgeroll, and Ball of Lightning come to mind. We'll just have to disagree about the usefullness of precognition in Cyrodiil
I'm curious though, what's this insurmountable combat advantage you mentioned, if not the ability to shrug off stealth users?
Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »Another fun fact is you can troll people who have this addon. Here's what you do: Stand about 25-30m away from them. Get on your melee bar (2h, DW, 1h/shield whatever), target them (keep cursor pointed at them so they are highlighted/focused), and just spam heavy attacks. They will be spammed with notifications that you're stealth attacking them. Last night every time I found someone using the addon, I would follow them around for a while just spamming heavy attacks. It's hilarious to watch them dodge around, spam buffs, try to find me, hold block, and generally spaz out while I'm just sitting on a rock swinging at air.
This makes me so happy. You have no idea.
*runs to Tamriel to make this common knowledge*
timidobserver wrote: »Meh, do not care about ganking playstyle. That is small picture too me. The big picture implications(those that can impact Cyrodiil as a whole) are a lot worse. This add-on was tailored to deal with stealth/ganking, what if it were tailored to look for groups, predict large scale attacks, and share data between players? It could use libGroupSocket to combine the data from multiple group members to create a larger, more accurate picture of where people are.
For example, you could make this thing search for Haxus members or other PvP groups, use libGroupSocket to announce their location to your group, and create a keybind to post it in zone. Also, you could create a keybind that tallies up an estimate of the # of players at every keep and post it to zone or share it with libGroupSocket between group members.
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I've already shared my opinion so I won't go back into that but I am surprised this sort of add on is new information to some . I'm curious what a few people's opinions are on this .
@HoloYoitsu
@Sypher
@FENGRUSH
@frozywozy
@Psilent
@Ishammael
What do you guys think of this add on in relation to "fair play" and what limits it should or should not have ?
ISHAMMAEL is come!
Oh... This issue.
I need to install the add-on and see. I guess I kinda knew this was coming by word of mouth. I also detest the "ganking" play style in ESO. It is completely unbalanced to allow one shots from stealth. Stealth is its own advantage. This seems to be the core issue.
Yes I agree but I'm wondering what you think on the mechanic of this addon taking away the good features of stealth . For instance , people watching back keeps no longer needing to patrol , just sit and watch the notification for a small team that arrives to backcap .
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I've already shared my opinion so I won't go back into that but I am surprised this sort of add on is new information to some . I'm curious what a few people's opinions are on this .
@HoloYoitsu
@Sypher
@FENGRUSH
@frozywozy
@Psilent
@Ishammael
What do you guys think of this add on in relation to "fair play" and what limits it should or should not have ?
ISHAMMAEL is come!
Oh... This issue.
I need to install the add-on and see. I guess I kinda knew this was coming by word of mouth. I also detest the "ganking" play style in ESO. It is completely unbalanced to allow one shots from stealth. Stealth is its own advantage. This seems to be the core issue.
Yes I agree but I'm wondering what you think on the mechanic of this addon taking away the good features of stealth . For instance , people watching back keeps no longer needing to patrol , just sit and watch the notification for a small team that arrives to backcap .
Thank you for the mention @Rohamad_Ali appreciate it.
Just a bit of background; I don’t use any add-ons in Cyrodiil currently. I used to use Combat Cloud, FTC, and Kill Counter; however, since Zenimax released their own floating combat text and AP/EXP notification in their UI I don’t use Combat Cloud anymore. I dumped FTC and Kill Counter because the add-on authors supposedly stopped updating them and they were causing me load screens and FPS loss in Cyrodiil. Since I stopped using those tools my FPS in Cyrodiil is very high, for Cyrodiil, and I get maybe one loading screen every so often; the game is much more enjoyable. With that said; I do not approve of this add-on nor will I ever use it.
RvRvR PvP in ESO is so attractive to me because I have no idea what I’m getting into until I commit to it. Having to make split quick second decisions and constantly having to take notice of my surroundings is exciting; I feel this add-on takes all that away. No longer will anyone in group have to watch the breach because they can just look at a counter and determine if we’re getting ready to be bombed by Mano’s or Unruh’s group or even Khole; we’ll see the names and be ready for them. This, in my opinion, is just another way we as players are dumbing down a game that is already being dumbed down.
No longer will players have to actively watch breaches for, non-stealthed, backcap attempts; they can just watch the counter, see that 10 – 16 EP showed up and just call it out. While most people won’t consider being aware of your surroundings as skill, it’s something I feel that separates good players from great players. Here we are giving these good players an add-on that they will use as a crutch to make them great; just like Zenimax gave us proc sets to turn a bad light attack spamming player into a force to be feared. This isn’t even touching on the fact this add-on even tells you when to dodge/block an attack!
My biggest concern is how will Zenimax fix this flaw in the API? Will they make it to where, like group damage, we won’t be able to see anyone’s buffs anymore like you can’t see anyone’s damage or even worse, will they not address it at all and this will be something we’ll have to learn to work around in group play?
Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. I won't be using this add-on, it ruins my fun and I feel will degrade me as a player
Another fun fact is you can troll people who have this addon. Here's what you do: Stand about 25-30m away from them. Get on your melee bar (2h, DW, 1h/shield whatever), target them (keep cursor pointed at them so they are highlighted/focused), and just spam heavy attacks. They will be spammed with notifications that you're stealth attacking them. Last night every time I found someone using the addon, I would follow them around for a while just spamming heavy attacks. It's hilarious to watch them dodge around, spam buffs, try to find me, hold block, and generally spaz out while I'm just sitting on a rock swinging at air.
This addon crosses the line, in my opinion. There's a difference between convenience addons and the ones that give a clear advantage in PvP. This is the latter. I would never use something like this, and knowing that many people in PvP will be is pretty discouraging.
I'm sure there are other "things" players are doing in PvP which are probably worse. But as far as supported addons go, I do hope ZOS adjusts the API to make things like this impossible.
I'm curious to know whj you think this addon crosses the line.
Simple. Because it gives players information that they clearly were never intended to see.
I'll turn the question around on you:
How do you justify an addon that notifies me about someone who I am otherwise unaware of going into stealth?
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?
At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.
I don't give two care's about principles. If its allowed its allowed. They may change API calls in the future which will render parts of the addon inert, and I could care less about that too.
I'm not going to follow your idea of the rules. Screw your idea. Who the hell are you? No seriously, who the hell do you think you are? Not being mean or derogatory, just think about what you are saying and how much impact you actually have on others.
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I've already shared my opinion so I won't go back into that but I am surprised this sort of add on is new information to some . I'm curious what a few people's opinions are on this .
@HoloYoitsu
@Sypher
@FENGRUSH
@frozywozy
@Psilent
@Ishammael
What do you guys think of this add on in relation to "fair play" and what limits it should or should not have ?
ISHAMMAEL is come!
Oh... This issue.
I need to install the add-on and see. I guess I kinda knew this was coming by word of mouth. I also detest the "ganking" play style in ESO. It is completely unbalanced to allow one shots from stealth. Stealth is its own advantage. This seems to be the core issue.
Yes I agree but I'm wondering what you think on the mechanic of this addon taking away the good features of stealth . For instance , people watching back keeps no longer needing to patrol , just sit and watch the notification for a small team that arrives to backcap .
Thank you for the mention @Rohamad_Ali appreciate it.
Just a bit of background; I don’t use any add-ons in Cyrodiil currently. I used to use Combat Cloud, FTC, and Kill Counter; however, since Zenimax released their own floating combat text and AP/EXP notification in their UI I don’t use Combat Cloud anymore. I dumped FTC and Kill Counter because the add-on authors supposedly stopped updating them and they were causing me load screens and FPS loss in Cyrodiil. Since I stopped using those tools my FPS in Cyrodiil is very high, for Cyrodiil, and I get maybe one loading screen every so often; the game is much more enjoyable. With that said; I do not approve of this add-on nor will I ever use it.
RvRvR PvP in ESO is so attractive to me because I have no idea what I’m getting into until I commit to it. Having to make split quick second decisions and constantly having to take notice of my surroundings is exciting; I feel this add-on takes all that away. No longer will anyone in group have to watch the breach because they can just look at a counter and determine if we’re getting ready to be bombed by Mano’s or Unruh’s group or even Khole; we’ll see the names and be ready for them. This, in my opinion, is just another way we as players are dumbing down a game that is already being dumbed down.
No longer will players have to actively watch breaches for, non-stealthed, backcap attempts; they can just watch the counter, see that 10 – 16 EP showed up and just call it out. While most people won’t consider being aware of your surroundings as skill, it’s something I feel that separates good players from great players. Here we are giving these good players an add-on that they will use as a crutch to make them great; just like Zenimax gave us proc sets to turn a bad light attack spamming player into a force to be feared. This isn’t even touching on the fact this add-on even tells you when to dodge/block an attack!
My biggest concern is how will Zenimax fix this flaw in the API? Will they make it to where, like group damage, we won’t be able to see anyone’s buffs anymore like you can’t see anyone’s damage or even worse, will they not address it at all and this will be something we’ll have to learn to work around in group play?
Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. I won't be using this add-on, it ruins my fun and I feel will degrade me as a player
This addon crosses the line, in my opinion. There's a difference between convenience addons and the ones that give a clear advantage in PvP. This is the latter. I would never use something like this, and knowing that many people in PvP will be is pretty discouraging.
I'm sure there are other "things" players are doing in PvP which are probably worse. But as far as supported addons go, I do hope ZOS adjusts the API to make things like this impossible.
I'm curious to know whj you think this addon crosses the line.
Simple. Because it gives players information that they clearly were never intended to see.
I'll turn the question around on you:
How do you justify an addon that notifies me about someone who I am otherwise unaware of going into stealth?
This is how:ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?
At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.
I don't give two care's about principles. If its allowed its allowed. They may change API calls in the future which will render parts of the addon inert, and I could care less about that too.
I'm not going to follow your idea of the rules. Screw your idea. Who the hell are you? No seriously, who the hell do you think you are? Not being mean or derogatory, just think about what you are saying and how much impact you actually have on others.
You saying that we shouldn't use this addon because its bad, is the same thing as someone saying we shouldn't use proc sets because they're 'unfair'. I could care less what players think is unfair. I care about what the moderators think. They are the ones who enforce the rules. They are the one's who's opinion ACTUALLY matter.
No amount of guilt tripping, insults, disparagement, or peer pressure from you or others like you will change my opinion or others' opinions. That's just a simple fact. Those who want the features of this addon will use it. Those who want to stick to their principles will either suck it up and use the addon, disadvantage themselves by not using it, stop PVPing, or quit entirely.
They aren't going to render parts or the whole addon inert because you voiced it needed to be done. They really won't They already have a vision to what sort of things an addon can be used for. Look at that post by the ZOS mod explaining how it works. They know this addon inside and out. They know what it does, what it can be used for, and the implications. They've already decided what they will do to it. That will be probably in the next update.
They can't simply ban the addon. Do you know how easy it is to recreate the addon to bypass such a 'banned' feature? The difference is, the addon author won't put it to the public. Guilds with decent LUA coders (and LUA isn't hard to code for) will make addons of their own to exploit these features.
They have to adjust the API calls. This could break legitimate addons. So while we'll likely see some API methods squelched, you won't see all of it. This addon is pandoras box. We're stuck with a large portion of it. It will be nerfed. Don't get me wrong, it IS a concern for the developers. They will put forth fixes.
But don't think for an instant that it will be removed entirely.
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »So many Football deflaters here looking for a Dorritos sponsorship and missing the point . Integrity . It's not a guilt trip it's a real personality trait . Sportsmanship is not a morality . It's a contract with the games integrity . No need to be insulting to one another over values when we are in a game and should all at least respect the sport in it .
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »There are already people using un published to the public exploitive add ons much worse then this one . Ever went to a random destination without telling anyone and someone was there waiting for you ? Ever have it happen over and over in places no one would be able to guess in a million years ? I have .
This issue is a lot bigger then this one addon . To me it's about the API and just how far people can go with it to get an advantage . Will it effect a lot of other addons if ZOS makes a change ? Maybe . We all know what can be exploited will be exploited by exploitive players . That's not news . What would be new is if ZOS ever gets around to making positive changes .
God_flakes wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »So many Football deflaters here looking for a Dorritos sponsorship and missing the point . Integrity . It's not a guilt trip it's a real personality trait . Sportsmanship is not a morality . It's a contract with the games integrity . No need to be insulting to one another over values when we are in a game and should all at least respect the sport in it .
Wow. This is a rare moment when I agree with you completely.
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »There are already people using un published to the public exploitive add ons much worse then this one . Ever went to a random destination without telling anyone and someone was there waiting for you ? Ever have it happen over and over in places no one would be able to guess in a million years ? I have .
aetherial_heavenn wrote: »But worst of all it means the new PvPers, the non forum reading people, and the ones not in the elite secret 'pass the add-on' cliques are permanent at a disadvantage. Bit like happened with Sky racing team and the tour de France, or the Russian athletes, . Eventually the game gets broken and the glory of victory is tainted for all.