Cheating and Exploits

ManwithBeard9

qqqwerty wrote: »

An Horde of bots are coming over from the nearest shrine to Myrkwasa Dolmen as soon as the Dolmain becomes active and traveling back as soon as it is complete. The cycle repeats itself.

If this is normal, why would anybody bother farming manually? Or why play the game at all?

People use the 3 dolmens in Alikr for XP grinding due to close location to wayshrines. The bots are the ones that never move and are always attacking when the dolmen is inactive.

tradewith2017

@qqqwerty lol
its not bots its players

Elsonso

qqqwerty wrote: »

An Horde of bots are coming over from the nearest shrine to Myrkwasa Dolmen as soon as the Dolmain becomes active and traveling back as soon as it is complete. The cycle repeats itself.

This is not necessarily botting, and hard to demonstrate it, if it is.

Lots of players will attempt to optimize their time by running from dolmen to dolmen. They can generally run to the next one faster than any single dolmen will respawn, which means that they can do more dolmens per hour. Players can do this manually. To determine that they are not, it takes more than just seeing them running to and from the dolmens, as pictured.

Personally, I just wait off to the side for the dolmen to respawn. The reason is that when the dolmen drops, a lot of these touring players are not there, so it is a bit more fun. At least until the mob of 30 arrives.

qqqwerty

The second after Dolmen sound is heard, the bots appear from the shrine, moving towards the area using same linear path. Nobody is appearing before the Dolmen begins, as newly activated Dolmen triggers the script to move the character to an appropriate location.

VIDEO: https://streamable.com/xjb5u

ManwithBeard9

qqqwerty wrote: »

The second after Dolmen sound is heard, the bots appear from the shrine, moving towards the area using same linear path. Nobody is appearing before the Dolmen begins, as newly activated Dolmen triggers the script to move the character to an appropriate location.

VIDEO: https://streamable.com/xjb5u

yes, thats how dolmen farming works. those arent bots, those are players farming XP. press x, y, or z in zone chat and youll get auto invited to one of the groups assuming they arent full.

tradewith2017

@qqqwerty jesus you looks ridiculous!
its not bots, read the zone chat and you will understand

qqqwerty

tradewith2017 wrote: »

@qqqwerty jesus you looks ridiculous!

Not sure how Jesus and my looks are connected to the topic. Move along.

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

yes, thats how dolmen farming works. those arent bots, those are players farming XP. press x, y, or z in zone chat and youll get auto invited to one of the groups assuming they arent full

I guess the concept of farming XP, manually, and in the most repetitive way is not my cup of tea. The whole thing looks quite awkward in my eyes, especially considering the precise timings these characters appear in the appropriate spot.

Elsonso

qqqwerty wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

yes, thats how dolmen farming works. those arent bots, those are players farming XP. press x, y, or z in zone chat and youll get auto invited to one of the groups assuming they arent full

I guess the concept of farming XP, manually, and in the most repetitive way is not my cup of tea. The whole thing looks quite awkward in my eyes, especially considering the precise timings these characters appear in the appropriate spot.

While I won't say that no one on PC/Mac uses a scripting program to run from dolmen to dolmen so they can farm it, I really don't think that very many people will be doing this. The level of sophistication ramps up significantly. It is simply easier to stand at one dolmen and farm it all day long.

Bots are in it for the long haul. They don't need to maximize the dolmens per hour. If they stand at a dolmen all day long, they will catch that dolmen every time an anchor drops. There is no chance they will miss it because they are in transit. They get a steady, reliable, return on their farming for a minimum amount of complexity.

People, on the other hand, have real life to contend with. They are going to do fewer dolmens if they just stand there because they have things to do that pull them away from the game. For the player, it makes sense to try and run from dolmen to dolmen because it could help to increase the number they can do in the time they have to play.

tradewith2017

qqqwerty wrote: »

tradewith2017 wrote: »

@qqqwerty jesus you looks ridiculous!

Not sure how Jesus and my looks are connected to the topic. Move along.

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

yes, thats how dolmen farming works. those arent bots, those are players farming XP. press x, y, or z in zone chat and youll get auto invited to one of the groups assuming they arent full

I guess the concept of farming XP, manually, and in the most repetitive way is not my cup of tea. The whole thing looks quite awkward in my eyes, especially considering the precise timings these characters appear in the appropriate spot.

L2P issue

KingMagaw

lordrichter wrote: »

While I won't say that no one on PC/Mac uses a scripting program to run from dolmen to dolmen so they can farm it, I really don't think that very many people will be doing this. The level of sophistication ramps up significantly. It is simply easier to stand at one dolmen and farm it all day long.

I would say not many people could 'code' a sequence like this with absolute coordinates but why should they?, can purchase a number of premade scripts to run, in various areas collecting various items. More reliable boys sell access to use the dynamic code they will regularly alter for a monthly sub.

I personally have witnessed working and current add ons and scripts that automate gameplay. A lot kicked up when they heard of Miatts add on and boys was using that for ages. The boys running multi box trains and hovering over dolmens are the beginners here have no doubt.

lordrichter wrote: »

Bots are in it for the long haul. They don't need to maximize the dolmens per hour.

Agreed. Most aren't coding there own scripts so irrelevant and if a code was to be made, using absolute coordinates, by default it makes the script efficient.

Posted off my mobile phone ))

EDIT:

There is a market for botting and gold, MMO's there always has been. Personally ZoS has the weakest stance on this so word spreads. Incapable of combatting it, word spreads. Players police the game, get automated dirt responses from tickets or post here to get no response - add these up and you will get an increase in botting. So botting will continue to increase.

Anyone running an automated script won't get affected by the new anticheat code ZoS has wasted time making. The main boys it will nail are the autowalkers in Cyro who afk for 10mins but don't want to be booted and forced to re-queue for an hour to get back into cyro.

Incompetent work I have come to expect from ZoS to be honest

Yolokin_Swagonborn

This is how a development team who actually cares about game integrity handles it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OimzDPqDiA


They actually don't give second chances, unlike ZOS.

Gorthax

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

This is how a development team who actually cares about game integrity handles it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OimzDPqDiA


They actually don't give second chances, unlike ZOS.

I wish they would not give second chances if caught cheating......so many cheat engine abusers are back. Some bought second accounts others had ban lifted. The lulz from the security team is unreal.

The day zazeer showed everyone what's up is the day eso died significantly for me. I still enjoy it but it doesn't have that appeal like it once did now that I know they just unban people who use cheat engine.

Come on zos.....make eso great again, finally put an end to cheat engine, no more trusted client -_- pay for a program to help you out......

InvitationNotFound

nice to see that this black hole still exists

let's see how I get ignored

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Any statement regarding the pvp queue bypass? Reported several times by many players. Or did I miss some patch notes? (Or are the current priorities in messing the game up even more with Morrowind? )

Elsonso

Gorthax wrote: »

I wish they would not give second chances if caught cheating......so many cheat engine abusers are back. Some bought second accounts others had ban lifted. The lulz from the security team is unreal.

Well, as much as I hate people who cheat, and want to see them stopped, I hate it when innocent people get banned for cheating more.

I am not a fan of "zero tolerance" policies. It is a refuge for the lazy.

I really don't care if they are suspended or banned, or even if they come back to the game, so long as they pay for the cheating they did, and stop doing it. I realize that this takes more effort than "zero tolerance", because it requires actually evaluating the situation and making a decision.

So, I would eliminate "permanent ban" except in the most extreme cases and replace it with increasingly longer suspensions. The permanent ban should be reserved for situations where laws are being broken and ZOS needs to remove a player from the game to protect their interests or the welfare of the other players.

Dubhliam

lordrichter wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

I wish they would not give second chances if caught cheating......so many cheat engine abusers are back. Some bought second accounts others had ban lifted. The lulz from the security team is unreal.

Well, as much as I hate people who cheat, and want to see them stopped, I hate it when innocent people get banned for cheating more.

I am not a fan of "zero tolerance" policies. It is a refuge for the lazy.

I really don't care if they are suspended or banned, or even if they come back to the game, so long as they pay for the cheating they did, and stop doing it. I realize that this takes more effort than "zero tolerance", because it requires actually evaluating the situation and making a decision.

So, I would eliminate "permanent ban" except in the most extreme cases and replace it with increasingly longer suspensions. The permanent ban should be reserved for situations where laws are being broken and ZOS needs to remove a player from the game to protect their interests or the welfare of the other players.

No.
Definitely not.

Every player has to read and agree to the terms of use when installing the game.
If you are proven to have went out of your way to intentionally cheat in a game, you should be permabanned.
Simple as that.

By giving players second chances, players aren't afraid to cheat.
And the easiest way to stop cheating is to prevent it from happening in the first place.

White wabbit

Dubhliam wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

I wish they would not give second chances if caught cheating......so many cheat engine abusers are back. Some bought second accounts others had ban lifted. The lulz from the security team is unreal.

Well, as much as I hate people who cheat, and want to see them stopped, I hate it when innocent people get banned for cheating more.

I am not a fan of "zero tolerance" policies. It is a refuge for the lazy.

I really don't care if they are suspended or banned, or even if they come back to the game, so long as they pay for the cheating they did, and stop doing it. I realize that this takes more effort than "zero tolerance", because it requires actually evaluating the situation and making a decision.

So, I would eliminate "permanent ban" except in the most extreme cases and replace it with increasingly longer suspensions. The permanent ban should be reserved for situations where laws are being broken and ZOS needs to remove a player from the game to protect their interests or the welfare of the other players.

No.
Definitely not.

Every player has to read and agree to the terms of use when installing the game.
If you are proven to have went out of your way to intentionally cheat in a game, you should be permabanned.
Simple as that.

By giving players second chances, players aren't afraid to cheat.
And the easiest way to stop cheating is to prevent it from happening in the first place.

I second this ! No second chances

Mallybls17

My only problem is how players take advantage of the fact that you can have two different players in two different alliances which allows them to switch tides and spy on other players whereabouts. i know its a bit harsh but they should make it so that you can only be in one alliance for all of you characters, with the option to change but at a hefty price, also make it impossible for the same Ip address, to load into the same server with two different alliances, i think this would encourage players to be more loyal to their alliances.

ManwithBeard9

Mallybls17 wrote: »

My only problem is how players take advantage of the fact that you can have two different players in two different alliances which allows them to switch tides and spy on other players whereabouts. i know its a bit harsh but they should make it so that you can only be in one alliance for all of you characters, with the option to change but at a hefty price, also make it impossible for the same Ip address, to load into the same server with two different alliances, i think this would encourage players to be more loyal to their alliances.

They did one alliance per campaign, didn't stop cheaters, won't stop cheaters.

burglar

Mallybls17 wrote: »

My only problem is how players take advantage of the fact that you can have two different players in two different alliances which allows them to switch tides and spy on other players whereabouts. i know its a bit harsh but they should make it so that you can only be in one alliance for all of you characters, with the option to change but at a hefty price, also make it impossible for the same Ip address, to load into the same server with two different alliances, i think this would encourage players to be more loyal to their alliances.

In Dark Age of Camelot it was kind of awesome, the system for RvR (realm vs realm) was awesome. Everyone had have all of their chars on the same realm, no realm switching, and each realm spoke their own language. So when someone from another realm spoke near you it just said in the chat "So and so is speaking in a language you don't understand" or something to that effect. It integrated XPing too as some of the best XPing spots were found in AvA (or RvR) areas, which encouraged people to go into these areas. It was also pretty cool that the benefits from holding scrolls applied to your entire realm, not just to those in PvP areas, which brought PvE players into these PvP areas. One thing that was awesome that ZOS kinda screwed up in my opinion was imperial city, which was a lot like an area called Darkness Falls in Dark age. Darkness falls was a dungeon, or like an open raid area, where access to it was determined by the number of keeps held in the RvR area. Only one realm had access to enter the dungeon at any given time, but once you were inside you could stay in there. Some of my favorite pvp fights happened in there. The upper levels had merchants, and as you progressed downward you would encounter more and more difficult monsters, which is where the raid started. Often times I would log my character out in darkness falls, and when I would log in the next day another realm would own it, and I would go through fighting other people. People didn't complain nearly as much about PvP back then as they do now.

White wabbit wrote: »

I second this ! No second chances

It's not hard to appreciate taking the hardline with cheaters, but I worry that the effectiveness of the hardline lies in comforting non-cheaters, more than it mitigates or reduces cheating. It sounds severe and effective, but would it be any more effective than giving people a warning? It seems that locating the cheaters is the hard part, and tracking them is much easier. So, I imagine that simply confronting the issue is enough to stop the behavior, because anyone who continues to disregard the rules will eventually be banned.

kyle.wilson

ProbablePaul wrote: »

It's not hard to appreciate taking the hardline with cheaters, but I worry that the effectiveness of the hardline lies in comforting non-cheaters, more than it mitigates or reduces cheating.

I think ZOS not being open and honest on numbers of players being banned, it makes us feel like they are soft on cheaters.
The appearance of being easy on cheaters can damage a game just as fast as actually being that way.
Several players that I personally know were perma-banned for CE use have had those accounts unlocked lately. That's not good publicity. They aren't even new accounts.

Yarlenzey

qqqwerty wrote: »

The second after Dolmen sound is heard, the bots appear from the shrine, moving towards the area using same linear path. Nobody is appearing before the Dolmen begins, as newly activated Dolmen triggers the script to move the character to an appropriate location.

VIDEO: https://streamable.com/xjb5u

Hi,

I did the Alik'r dolmen circuit for several months as it is a way of quickly amassing some loot. Other provinces don't seem to play it this way, as the Alik'r has the three dolmens in quick, easy access from the wayshrines.

Here's what I've seen and worked out from this.

"The second after Dolmen sound is heard," - lucky them. The queuing system normally holds me into the 'endless loading screen' until just before the dolmen ends. This behaviour changed sometime over the new year, from what existed before, where I could skip a dolmen and wait at the following one and be there when it started.

Now I have to 'just miss' the current one and wait 10 minutes for it to go off again. They also changed the loot drop to stop it coming from the monsters, so now it only comes from the reward chest at the end instead. These two changes really ruined the dolmen farming concept.

This was a fun activity to participate in, when the numbers were around 8-10 players, grouped or not. The chaos of the battle; the slaying of the boss; the unruly charge of all the players at the end was the best part as players with varying speed mounts sped off with their various pets trundling behind them. On the the next dolmen, ad infinitum.

Then the botters came and ruined it all.

Botters at the dolmen are those characters endlessly firing weapons; or endlessly hitting a wall. Some appear to be run by group leaders in order to control the dolmen timing. At least, that's all I can work out.

All the changes have screwed everything, so I dont bother any more. If the original dolmen farming is was viewed as cheating; it wasn't. You had to work at it for hours.

Yarlenzey

On a different note.

This isn't 'cheating' as such, but it is really annoying behaviour.

Characters with 600+ CP have so much over-powering compared to other players.
When these people go 'farming' - it's on an industrial scale. If they don't take everything, they just leave the 'rubbish' behind in chests and runestones for someone else to dispose of.

Its frustrating when you set aside an hour and suddenly realise that you're following one (or more) of them:

• No ore or wood in sight
• Any remaining Chests are labelled 'simple' or worse; 'use'
• No blue rune stones to be seen anywhere
• Theives guild chests with lockpicks only left behind

Suddenly, two hours are gone with no real progress. Still, its not cheating...

Voltranox

kyle.wilson wrote: »

ProbablePaul wrote: »

It's not hard to appreciate taking the hardline with cheaters, but I worry that the effectiveness of the hardline lies in comforting non-cheaters, more than it mitigates or reduces cheating.

I think ZOS not being open and honest on numbers of players being banned, it makes us feel like they are soft on cheaters.
The appearance of being easy on cheaters can damage a game just as fast as actually being that way.
Several players that I personally know were perma-banned for CE use have had those accounts unlocked lately. That's not good publicity. They aren't even new accounts.

Thanks for sharing the info @kyle.wilson
Approximately how long ago were they banned?
Have you heard anything about the reason given for the 'un-ban'?

ddpmacho

qqqwerty wrote: »

tradewith2017 wrote: »

@qqqwerty jesus you looks ridiculous!

Not sure how Jesus and my looks are connected to the topic. Move along.

That line right there just made my day. Thank you

Voltranox

The way I see it, there are still 3 things wrong with this picture.

1. Cheats, 'macros' and bots are still being used to gain unfair advantage.
2. The only punishment for those who are caught is a brief vacation from the game. They get to keep all their stuff. Gear, materials, titles. Sure - why not.
3. Absolutely no official comment from the development company. Silence.

And now, in addition to my subscription, they want another $60 to play the upgrade?
NO assurance from the company that the cheating will stop after spending that money?
So remind me, why am I still playing this game again?

x4livin

Ironic to me:
I played Runescape for years with my son, who was at the time, in Jr HS and HS and is now getting ready to exit the Marine Corp. He still plays Runescape. I had not played in a year or so and when I attempted to log in, I was blocked out and it said I was banned for botting. I appealed the ban and never heard back from them. I personally know people who were in HS with my son who botted. A lot. I wouldn't know how to begin to bot. I was a paying member for years. Their "no tolerance" policy banned a paying player. .............................. BUT while I was playing, there was an ENORMOUS number of lvl 2-5 players who were ALWAYS fishing sharks(a high lvl fish that sells for a lot) and would never answer you, and took the same path to the bank and back. I haven't even remotely seen that level of gross cheating on ESO. It was just massive there....I could never understand how their NO TOLERANCE policy let that happen. I reported them over and over, and they would be back online night after night. WTH?? I would write the ID's down....things like hsjfj30573. And watch for them, and weeks dragged into months...and the bots remained. But I was banned......really??? My son still asks me to make another account and play with him, and there is no way in hell. I tell him to come over to ESO and I'll pay his membership for a year to get him to play. So far, he hasn't shown much interest.
Back to the point, though......there is no where as much cheating going on on ESO. I was in a dungeon one night, and some girl convinced the group to kick me for "botting"....because I was using shards. I was talking to them, but she convinced them that anyone who used shards in a dungeon was botting. I was like WTH?? People get some awful funny ideas about what botting actually is. They should play Runescape.....they could see some serious cheating there.

Elsonso

Voltranox wrote: »

The way I see it, there are still 3 things wrong with this picture.

1. Cheats, 'macros' and bots are still being used to gain unfair advantage.
2. The only punishment for those who are caught is a brief vacation from the game. They get to keep all their stuff. Gear, materials, titles. Sure - why not.
3. Absolutely no official comment from the development company. Silence.

And now, in addition to my subscription, they want another $60 to play the upgrade?
NO assurance from the company that the cheating will stop after spending that money?
So remind me, why am I still playing this game again?

I agree with number 1. This is why botting is bad and how it contributes to problems for other players.

Number 2 ... it is not always the case that they get off with just a vacation. They do get stuff taken away from them, but the problem is that when ZOS takes away stuff like AP and Gold, the cheaters have already spent it. It takes ZOS too long to get around to punishing people for that to be effective.

Number 3 ... absolutely has been official comment from the development company. This thread is one of them, even if it is a year old. A more recent one, just 2 months ago, is here. The problem isn't that they don't comment, it is that they don't take actions that consistently match those comments.

"Recently, some of you have asked if it’s okay to put tape or a rubber band on your controller. The short answer is “No.” Automating your character in any way, including placing tape or a rubber-band on a console controller, is considered a violation of our Terms of Service, and action may be taken on your account. You must be actively controlling your character."

So, dolmen rubber banding on PC/NA has been better, at least when I have checked. I don't know if ZOS took action, or whether they just left because of PTS Beta or anger with sustain. I figure the rubber band players are trying to gain XP and CP. For that reason, I think most of the people cheating at dolmens are end game players, or wannabees. Sustain changes may have made them hit the pause button.

"On the Customer Support side of things, our Terms of Service team suspends and bans accounts daily. We review all TOS reports that we receive, and prioritize the investigations of accounts that have received multiple complaints."

I don't know who they are suspending and banning on a daily basis. Maybe it is just people with language, hate, and rubber band problems. It is apparently not anyone associated with long running bot trains in the game. Bot trains are for XP/CP gain as much as gold and materials gain. For example, some of the bots running a train around Hissmir in Shadowfen run to a vendor in Ebonheart to sell their stuff for gold. ZOS does not appear to be interested in "daily" suspensions and bans when it comes to these accounts.

Voltranox

Thanks for the info lordrichter, especially the link to an actual ZOS response!
I wonder if there have been any official comment on the status of hacks, and 'macros'.

darjobuno

Okay I am back and with a vengeance. I spent $3000.00 F'ing dollars to see just who was cheating and how it was happening. First for all those nay sayers before....
I run at 130 mbp down and 5 mbp up.
I am running at 100 FPS on a regular basis.
I am running a 32 gig, GTX 1080 system with hard component drive for processing and separate drive for gaming.
I have NO lag issues what so ever so if even one of you macro using cheating yahoos try to tell me its my system you can eat it.

Next now that I officially see everything in real freaking time. No-one and I mean No-one I don't care if you have 5000 cp can come out of a castle door and kill 6 vets in less than 2 seconds. Yet alone complete 5 separate actions in that time.

Which leads me to my one question that I want answered.

Are any form of "Macros" real, imagined, software or hardware legal?

I will assume that if this question goes unanswered for more than a month by the ZoS/Bethesda team that they are legal and I will begin using my own macro system in PvP.

PvP is a realm for competition and in competition there has to be rules that are followed and adhered to. If no one is going to enforce the rules then everyone is going to break the rules. Pure and simple logic.

Peace be with you.

Elsonso

darjobuno wrote: »

Okay I am back and with a vengeance.

Are any form of "Macros" real, imagined, software or hardware legal?

I will assume that if this question goes unanswered for more than a month by the ZoS/Bethesda team that they are legal and I will begin using my own macro system in PvP.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1827438/#Comment_1827438

"Whether it provides an advantage or not, utilizing macros do fall under this category and are prohibited."