Cheating and Exploits

ZOS_AlanG

Hello everyone, we’ve started a fresh thread on the matter of cheating and exploits. This has been a big issue, and maintaining an open discussion on the matter is important to us. However, it is also important that this discussion stay on topic, and within the forum rules. In particular:

• We do not allow naming and shaming. Accusations of misconduct directed at anyone, even if not explicitly named, are not acceptable. If you feel someone is cheating, any information needs to be sent to us privately. Rules violations can be sent in-game or by submitting a ticket on our help site, and this is covered in more detail below. When reporting someone, please detail who you are reporting and why, the more information you can provide the easier it is for us to investigate. We welcome images and videos. With the latter, if it’s very long a timestamp may be helpful.

• We do not allow disciplinary actions to be discussed for specific members, whether named or not. General discussion of ESO policy is acceptable, but not commentary on what may have happened with specific people. Staff will not discuss the moderation status of an account publicly, or state whether an account has or has not been actioned. Allowing others to speculate on this can lead to a host of problems, and we are unable to clarify.

• Flaming or bashing is not allowed. This goes for abusive and disruptive comments and behavior that are directed at ZeniMax Online employees and ESO community members, alike.

• Demands or threats, specifically directed at the ESO team or suspected exploiters.

• It is important to keep comments respectful, and criticism constructive. We discuss this in greater depth here. There is a lot of value in having an open thread for discussing these problems, but it needs to remain civil and constructive.

We will remove any posts breaking the forum rules. In the last thread we tried to keep moderation to a minimum, but this just allowed the problems to escalate until we couldn’t ignore them. When removing posts we will generally remove any replies as well, since they often don’t make sense on their own, or continue off track discussion. If you feel someone is breaking the rules, we ask that you report the post and not respond to it.

We had closed the previous thread because of the number of problems, and because we thought a break until we had new information would be helpful. We’ve received a lot of feedback that people would rather have an open discussion now, so are putting this up.

As mentioned earlier, and explained in detail in the quoted post below, if you feel that someone is cheating or exploiting please send this information to us. Do not post details on how to preform an exploit, or who may be preforming them, on the forums.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

If you believe someone is cheating, hacking, exploiting, botting, or anything else that violates our EULA and Terms of Service, we want to know but we need you to report them using the appropriate channels. We fully investigate all reports of TOS violations. (See this Support article on how to report another player for inappropriate behavior.)

You can also submit a Support ticket via our website if you need to include screenshots and/or video footage of the player you are reporting. To do so, follow these steps:

1. Go to the Support page and log in
2. Choose “In-Game Support”
3. Select the “Report a Player” subcategory
4. Fill out the fields with as much detail as possible – if you know reproduction steps for what the player you’re reporting is doing, even better.
5. Attach any related files (screenshots, videos, etc.)
6. Hit the “Submit” button

Please note that we cannot discuss another player’s account status and details thereof with you, as doing so would be a violation of our Privacy Policy. This includes any disciplinary action we have taken on another player. In rare cases, we may decide to give a player who has been permanently banned a final chance after investigating a situation and speaking with them. If you believe a player with whom we have granted a final chance is violating our EULA and Terms of Service, please report them via one of the two methods described above.

Lastly, we are still going to wipe the Veteran Maelstrom Arena Leaderboards on the PC/Mac megaservers within the next few weeks.

bimbo

are the hackers got banned yet?

lol

dimensional

So what's the point of this thread, exactly? You're basically saying we can discuss disciplinary actions but we can't really discuss them because of your strict guidelines. It's kind of a pointless gesture to make IMO and kind of insulting. Just permaban cheaters, show us that they have been permabanned and be done with it. Anything less is unacceptable, and making threads to justify your lack of accountability is superfluous and doing nobody any favors. @ZOS_AlanG @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

nimander99

I think making this official thread takes all the fun out of complaining now...

Nénlindë

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

HoloYoitsu

Thank you for making a thread, can it please be sticked?

dimensional

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

And that's why. Consoles don't have easily accessed cheat programs like the PC does.

Danksta

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

That's why, hacking is a PC issue, at least mostly.

Nénlindë

dimensional wrote: »

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

And that's why. Consoles don't have easily accessed cheat programs like the PC does.

Oh, so PC is where it's happening. Why don't they just ban them?

ShedsHisTail

Hey, look at that, they re-opened the conversation after a cooling down period just like they said they would.

Did -not- see that coming.

Autolycus

dimensional wrote: »

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

And that's why. Consoles don't have easily accessed cheat programs like the PC does.

Danksta wrote: »

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

That's why, hacking is a PC issue, at least mostly.

Nénlindë wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

And that's why. Consoles don't have easily accessed cheat programs like the PC does.

Oh, so PC is where it's happening. Why don't they just ban them?

^This.

Also, what if I told you that the API restrictions that reduce/limit botting and exploiting are partially attributable to the cause of our performance issues?!

SwaminoNowlino

Nénlindë wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

And that's why. Consoles don't have easily accessed cheat programs like the PC does.

Oh, so PC is where it's happening. Why don't they just ban them?

That's the crux of the issue. But can't and won't discuss that. Would still like a more official statement regarding the events of the past week or so. But would definitely at least like a stickied and closed version of that quote from Jessica at the top of the page.

dimensional

Nénlindë wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

And that's why. Consoles don't have easily accessed cheat programs like the PC does.

Oh, so PC is where it's happening. Why don't they just ban them?

That's the entire reason of this controversy. They said they banned people but those users were seen recently, so apparently they weren't banned. Or if they were, they were given second chances and still resumed their cheating ways. So effectively there was no meaningful action taken. That is why everyone was upset in the original thread about this. We know every game has its cheaters; people aren't upset at the existence of cheaters but rather the inaction or ineffectiveness of ZOS on this matter.

UrQuan

I demand that ZOS starts threatening suspected exploiters!

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

• Demands or threats, specifically directed at the ESO team or suspected exploiters.

Oh, um, well this is awkward. Allow me to retract my demand

Here's a suggestion that I think would make a lot of community members happier:

Put a locked sticky thread on the forums where mods can periodically post about in-game moderation that's taken place. No need to name and shame the people who the action was taken against (well, I'd actually prefer that they be named publicly, but I understand the policy against it), just posts along the lines of:

Pretend Sample Post in my Proposed Sticky Thread wrote:

PC NA Server Weekly Moderation:
4 players received 5 day suspensions for exploiting X
3 players received 10 day suspensions for exploiting Y
1 player received a permanent ban for botting
etc.

This would at least give people an idea that there are consequences for cheaters...

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I see this as totally pointless if I am being honest. Here is a thread about problems, but please dont talk about who is doing what. It's meaningless. What we need is Transparency . Your community deserves to know about the exploits found and what was done to the people that used them. As for the cheat engine, this is one step further. I can understand someone that finds a way to make a few extra bucks with gold mats because of a bug, and I can get past that. Downloading third party software to give yourself an in game advantage over other people is 100% unacceptable. This is hacking and its wrong. These people need to be permanently banned or as far as I am concerned, otherwise, ZOS has no integrity, and I will not continue to support them.

ShedsHisTail

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We had closed the previous thread because of the number of problems, and because we thought a break until we had new information would be helpful. We’ve received a lot of feedback that people would rather have an open discussion now, so are putting this up.

@ZOS_AlanG
Do you happen to have any new information you can share with us?
I know it would go a long way to placate some folks if they could have a little window into how this was being handled.

Anhedonie

Could somebody share a ref? I'm running low on Dreugh Waxes.
I mean, come on, it's only 3 days.

Mickey_Ox

I've a few questions I'd love to have answered please @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

1- within a day or so of this whole fiasco blowing up you posted that 43 or so players where banned, how many more if any have been banned since then?

2- In your recent post on the issue you stated some bans had been over turned, how many bans have been over turned?

3- Of the over turned bans what were your justifications?? I'm not asking for any individuals particular reason but rather what were your reasons behind some of them. Were their players found to have not been cheating, were they given 2nd chances for it being a first offence, were they a love child of matt frior?

It was stated upon the closing of so many other theeads on the issue about the spreading of misinformation but with out some actual information from you misinformation will continue to be spread.

Danksta

Volkodav wrote: »

[Quoted content removed]

Makes sense to me to have all the complaints about the same issue in the same thread, instead of being scattered across the forums in 100's of different threads. Not sure what took so long actually.

NBrookus

UrQuan wrote: »

Pretend Sample Post in my Proposed Sticky Thread wrote:

PC NA Server Weekly Moderation:
4 players received 5 day suspensions for exploiting X
3 players received 10 day suspensions for exploiting Y
1 player received a permanent ban for botting
etc.

This would at least give people an idea that there are consequences for cheaters...

Let's not give people ideas by naming the specific exploits they can use.

But yes, I want to see action. Concrete numbers, specific punishments, and permanent bans for extreme cases (like using that Program That Shall Not be Names) should be permanent.

Mickey_Ox wrote: »

It was stated upon the closing of so many other theeads on the issue about the spreading of misinformation but with out some actual information from you misinformation will continue to be spread.

QFT. Some people will still speculate on names and reasons, but clear, official information will keep it down to a dull roar.

SirAndy

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hello everyone, we’ve started a fresh thread on the matter of cheating and exploits

@ZOS_AlanG I have just two questions:

-> Since we're not allowed to say anything here, can you please enlighten us why all the permanently(!) banned cheaters were allowed back into the game?

-> When can we expect ESO to either:
--- Find a way to protect the game client memory from direct access (obviously not easy, 2 years and counting of client side cheats)
--- Remove the client side trust and implement a (much, much safer) server side trust system.

vamp_emily

I personally would like some comment from ZOS about this matter. Has it been resolved? Can we now play without thinking that everyone is cheating?

I know you don't owe us any kind of comment on this matter but it would make us feel good knowing if its been resolved.

I personally haven't seen any cheating in the last week.. well none that I am aware of.

Autolycus

vamp_emily wrote: »

I personally would like some comment from ZOS about this matter. Has it been resolved? Can we now play without thinking that everyone is cheating?

I know you don't owe us any kind of comment on this matter but it would make us feel good knowing if its been resolved.

I personally haven't seen any cheating in the last week.. well none that I am aware of.

Agreed.

And while we're at it, how about those leaderboard resets? You know, since half the people who cheated came out and openly admitted to having done so to acquire their amazing scores. Don't get me wrong, I know many of those people and know that they do not cheat or exploit. But c'mon... they admitted it. What else do you need?

We have a double-mundus exploit and the boards get wiped 2 days later. We get hackers and the boards remain unwiped for weeks.

SirAndy

vamp_emily wrote: »

Has it been resolved? Can we now play without thinking that everyone is cheating?

@vamp_emily

No. CE and similar Apps still work just the same as they did 2 weeks ago. Or 2 years ago for that matter.

Xylphan

With those policy restrictions, I'm not really sure what there is to discuss.

booksmcread

Someone let me know when ZoS becomes as aggressive with cheaters and anti-cheating measures as they are with threads about cheating.

Whatzituyah

Xylphan wrote: »

With those policy restrictions, I'm not really sure what there is to discuss.

Same

Edited for accidental summon.

Tekyn

Mostly people just want to know what possible justification there is for second chances when someone is hacking the game client. It's not like you do that on accident. "My bad, didn't know I wasn't supposed to do that." Or the classic "My little brother/friend was on my account!". That one comes out a lot when the ban hammer hits. Defending a ToS violation with another ToS violation.

Personally I'd rather just have a ban-list for perma-banned players, with a section for appeals. I'm not sure why that level of transparency is bad.

dennissomb16_ESO

I have to say I am somewhat confused about why this thread is opened and what we can realistically expect from it. If we cannot ask or get information about the actions (more importantly non-actions) that the developer is taking against players using the much discussed cheats that have been the hot topic then why is the discussion open?

I am not talking ZOS specific counter measures since that obviously needs to be kept internal, but if we cannot know that cheaters have actually been banned, discuss what actually is considered a bannable (real word?) offense, then what exactly are we discussing. Heck from what I read I am not sure I am even allowed to say I am disappointed with actions taken so far

Elder_Martin

I like to blame all my deaths in PvP (on Xbox) on hacking. It makes it easier to cope with that I'm not very good.

KramUzibra

No perma bans, warnings first.