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The PvP Justice System Concept, with opt out.

Dubhliam
Dubhliam
✭✭✭✭✭
Introduction

This is the continuation of the PvP Justice System Concept thread.

There have been many threads regarding this, and many heated debates about whether this system should or should not be implemented.
Also, I am well aware of the futility of beating a dead horse. I am not here to talk about that, general opinions have already been made known in those other threads.

Certain things will be done in the game that I have already taken into account when designing this idea, such as a fully scaling Tamriel. This will set a fair and competitive foundation for many future PvP aspects of the game such as dueling, arenas and PvP Justice.
My opinion is that the Iron Wheel guild story line and skill line should come as an extension of the Dark Brotherhood DLC, since it is lacking true endgame content. It is ultimately to ZOS to look at the revenue of each particular DLC, and decide whether they will upgrade some of the past DLC, or sell it as a part of a new DLC.
I am using names like Outlaw, Enforcer, the Iron Wheel guild, Prison etc. as general terms that most forum users will recognize and understand instantly. That does not mean some other names could not be given that are more appropriate.
Opted-in players will be referred as Outlaws (or Outlaw Criminals), while opted-out players will be referred as Criminals.

I would like this thread to revolve around improving and/or finding ways to exploit this particular suggestion you are about to read, so that we, as a community, can help potentially improve the current Justice System by reducing the amount of time and resources ZOS would need to implement such a system.

By all means, ask anything that comes to mind, comment away, and please try to be constructive in your replies.
Edited by Dubhliam on July 26, 2016 10:00AM
>>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
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  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heat Levels
    DISREPUTABLE
    • As long as the Outlaw's heat is Disreputable, the Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforcers to see an Outlaw icon overhead the Outlaw. The icon is not visible while the Outlaw is in stealth.
    NOTORIOUS
    • The Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforces to get a notification that there has been a crime in <Area Name> when an Outlaw with a Notorious bounty or higher gets spotted doing a crime. Character names are not mentioned.
    FUGITIVE
    • Outlaw Criminals will no longer be marked as "attack on sight" while having the Fugitive status.
    • The Criminal Awareness passive enables Enforces to get a Large circle on the map for 30 seconds when an Outlaw becomes Fugitive, indicating an approximate location where the crime was committed. Each subsequent crime spotted while Fugitive will refresh the circle and reduce it's radius.
    WANTED
    • The highest heat level- Wanted can be triggered by Outlaw Criminals in two ways: either by attacking an On-Duty Enforcer or Guard, or by choosing the "Flee dialogue" when accosted by a Guard or Enforcer. This does not apply in Outlaw Prison, which is the only Trespassing area accessible by Enforcers - where Outlaws are constantly marked as Wanted.
    • This level is reserved only for Heat. As soon as the Heat is depleted in time or by using Edicts, the Bounty level is reverted to Fugitive, no matter how high the Bounty is.
    • If the Criminal is an Outlaw, the Flee option clearly indicates he or she will be flagged for PvP.
    • If the Criminal Awareness passive is maxed, Enforcers can see the exact location of a Wanted Outlaw on the map indicated by an Outlaw icon. If the Wanted enters stealth, the icon reverts into a circle on the map on the last non-stealthed location for 30 seconds.
    • Players with the Wanted heat are marked for PvP, making them attackable by Guards and Enforcers.
    • A Wanted can only attack Enforcers that are marked "On-Duty".
    Edited by Dubhliam on October 3, 2016 8:30PM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Enforcer activities
    • Enforcers are able to mark themselves as "On-Duty" in the Activity Finder from the Group Menu. This enables them to participate in Justice System activities and queues them for PvP Justice instances.
    • Enforcers cannot mark themselves as On-Duty while in a Duel, in Cyrodiil, Imperial City, or any Group dungeon, Trial or Arena, and entering any of those will unmark them.
    • There is an extensive Iron Wheel storyline, during which you will encounter many new NPC characters, along with some TG and DB NPCs like Walks Softly, Silver Claw, Kor and Hildegard.
    • Inside the Iron Wheel headquarters Enforcers can take repeatable quests that reward participation in the Justice System.
    • Certain repeatable quests send the Enforcer in search of missing persons (NPCs) or wanted criminals (NPCs) that the Enforcer must find with vague descriptions and sketches. Note: some of those NPCs will turn aggressive when interacted with. Finding two or three missing persons before handing in will grant better rewards.
    • Certain repeatable quests require the Enforcer to accost an Outlaw and collect the bounty. Collecting a set amount of X bounty from one or more Outlaws gives a better reward. Killing a Wanted grants an even better reward.
    • There are also different kinds of repeatable quests called "Community Service" quests. Those include anything from escorting Merchants, delivering crafting crates, finding lost pets and other.
    • There are many achievements tied to upholding the law like killing a Wanted with a bounty over 5000 gold.
    Edited by Dubhliam on October 3, 2016 1:58PM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iron Wheel skill line
    Active skills
    • Enforcers cannot use their Accost skill unless they are On-Duty.
    ACCOST CRIMINAL (base)
    • A single target skill with range 15 meters, castable on Outlaws with bounties for 2500 magicka.
    • When cast on a Disreputable or Notorious Outlaw, forces the "Pay bounty" dialog.
    • When cast on a Wanted Outlaw, reduces the player's Movement Speed by 30% for 12 seconds.
    SEIZE CRIMINAL (morph)
    • Now stuns Wanted players instead for 12 seconds. The target can take 596 damage before the stun is broken. After the effect ends, the target is snared by 30% for 3 seconds.
    BUST CRIMINAL (morph)
    • Now costs stamina and also applies targets with Major Fracture, Major Breach and Minor Maim, reducing their resistances and damage done for 12 seconds.
    Passive Skills
    CRIMINAL AWARENESS
    • Enforcers become more aware of criminal activity, unlocking an overhead Outlaw icon for Disreputable Outlaws, <crime in Area> notifications for Notorious Outlaws, reported crime radius for Fugitive Outlaws and map Outlaw icon for Wanted Outlaws.
    UNYIELDING GUARD
    • Reduces damage taken from Outlaw players by 15/30/45/60%.
    VIGILANT WATCH
    • Increases Detection Radius by 0,5/1/1,5/2 meters.
    RIGHTEOUS BLOWS
    • Attacking a Wanted reduces their healing received by 10/20/30/40% for 15 seconds.
    DETERMINED
    • Gain 5/10/15/20 Spell and Weapon damage every 3 seconds while in combat against a Wanted, stacking up to 10 times.
    Edited by Dubhliam on October 5, 2016 3:39PM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Veteran Heists and sacraments
    • Outlaws can now do TG and DB daily quests in either Veteran or normal modes. The mode is chosen while interacting with the quest giver.
    • Veteran Heists and Sacraments can only be entered by a single Outlaw, not by groups, and not by regular Criminals.
    • Veteran quests cannot be abandoned while inside the instance. If abandoned before handing in, the Veteran option is no longer available that day.
    • If the timer in the instance reaches zero, an On-Duty Enforcer is assigned and gains the option to teleport into the instance.
    • Enforcers may burn down barrels and other containers where Outlaws can hide or are currently hidden.
    • Decoy Hiding Barrel Trap - Enforcers may place decoy hiding barrels in heists or sacraments, which trap an Outlaw that enters that barrel. Once inside the barrel, that player is unable to exit for 15-30 seconds, and the barrel is visibly shaking.
    Edited by Dubhliam on August 6, 2016 8:26AM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Outlaw Prison
    • By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, Outlaws are now transferred to an instance called Court, where Outlaws are presented with three options: Withdraw Funds from Bank, Go to Prison, where players get transferred to another, group instance, or an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.
    • Outlaws are automatically grouped upon entering, without the ability to leave group or disband.
    • Outlaws lose all their stolen items when going to prison. All lockpicks and pardon Edicts get marked as Stolen and are stored along with other stolen items into a random container inside the Prison which cannot be looted by other players.
    • A "Spare Guard Uniform" disguise can be found in one random container inside Prison, that can be worn as a tabard. Wearing it enables the player to be unnoticed by Guards or Enforcers. Finding it unlocks an achievement that grants the Guard costume (vanity only).
    • When the heat and bounty of an Outlaw wears off, a portal is spawned inside the cell that takes the player out of Prison. The portal is not visible to and interactable by other players.
    • The Prison dungeon has 6 cells and can host up to 6 Outlaw players, and up to 6 Enforcers that can port to the instance if it goes to high alert.
    • Inside each cell there is exactly 1 stolen lockpick that can be found to pick the cell lock with. Taking the lockpick starts the shareable "Prison Break" quest. Players that open their cell doors may also go and pick the doors of other locked players, but cannot enter cells other than their own.
    • The area outside the cell room is marked as Trespassing to Outlaws, marking them constantly as Wanted. This is the only Trespassing area Enforcers are able to visit, and Trespassing does not apply to them.
    • Getting seen by a Guard or Enforcer while inside the Prison automatically locks your cell door permanently.
    • Players that are killed by a Guard or Enforcer inside the Prison, and do not have enough gold to cover the bounty, are then transferred to their permanently locked cell. Otherwise, they get transferred out of Prison.
    • Leaving the room with the cells automatically starts a visible dungeon timer that is shared among all Outlaws that leave the cell room. Getting noticed outside the cell room by a guard subtracts 1 minute from the timer. After the time expires, the instance goes to High Alert and On-Duty Enforcers get a queue notification to enter that instance.
    • The first part of the instance is crawling with guards, some of which have Clairvoyance. The second part of the dungeon is purely PvE, and has no NPC Guards. Once inside the second part of Prison, it is impossible to return to the first part of the Prison.
    • To get to the exit, Outlaws have to beat a few mini bosses and a Final boss in the second, PvE part of the prison. Monsters are also aggressive to Enforcers. The Final Boss is stationary, and clairvoyant. The Minibosses cannot be reset once aggroed, and will follow any players still alive until killed.
    • Players may only be resurrected by other Outlaws while a Miniboss or Boss fight is ongoing, and there in no "wayshrine respawn point" if the group wipes.
    * - this is true provided Dueling Arenas are implemented at the same time or before implementing PvP Justice.
    Edited by Dubhliam on August 1, 2016 8:46AM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    PvP Justice rewards
    Outlaw rewards
    • Higher skill ranks in Legerdemain while being an Outlaw provide a better chance to get higher quality items by means of pickpocketing or looting dead NPCs.
    • Veteran Sacraments and Heists rewards often contain Epic, and rarely contain Legendary quality set pieces, including jewelry. Completing the "Prison Break" quest also rewards such set pieces. Sets that are included in the rewards are:
        Syvarra's Scales Stygian Sithis' Touch


    Enforcer rewards
    • Enforcers don't gain gold from accosting or killing Outlaws. The amount of the bounty does count towards certain achievements though.
    • Enforcers are sometimes rewarded with new potions:
    Lawful Immovable Draught
    Become immune to knockback and disabling effects for 11 seconds.
    Restores 6695 Health immediately.
    Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for 22,1 seconds.
    Lawful Defending Draught
    Restores 6695 Health immediately.
    Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for 22,1 seconds.
    Grants you Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken by 8% for 22,1 seconds.
    • Joining the Iron Wheel guild, Enforcers get access to dailies and repeatable quests that reward participation in Justice System activities. The first completed On-duty activity often rewards Epic, and seldom rewards Legendary quality set pieces, including jewelry. Subsequent completions only reward experience in decreased amounts. Sets that are included in the rewards are:
        Bahraha's Curse Prisoner's Rags Meridia's Blessed Armor
    Edited by Dubhliam on October 8, 2016 8:45AM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TL;DR
    • Players have an option to mark themselves as "Outlaws", opting them in for participation in PvP Justice activities. Regular Criminals are opted out.
    • The Justice System remains mainly intact as long as the Outlaw has no bounty. Other PCs cannot interact with or spot crimes.
    • When the Outlaw gets spotted doing a crime by an NPC, and has a bounty, he is eligible to be accosted by Enforcers (pops the "pay bounty" dialogue). Higher bounties help Enforcers to locate Outlaws more easily.
    • By choosing the "flee" option in the "pay bounty dialogue" Outlaws can get marked for PvP fights, and that mark is disabled when the Heat (not bounty) is depleted.
    • Other notable additions are new- PvP mode for Heists and Sacraments, the new Prison instance and a law enforcer storyline.
    Edited by Dubhliam on October 3, 2016 2:26PM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Change Log
    July 26th
    - rearranged the original sequence of sections, and also changed the location of certain bullets to more appropriate sections
    - changed this line in the introduction section:
    I would like to share with you my in-depth vision This is the continuation of the PvP Justice System Concept thread.
    - changed this line in the Heat levels section:
    • Whenever a Fugitive Criminal gains a bounty, there is a chance that a Guard accompanied by two Hounds will be spawned and engage the Criminal. The chance is proportional to the heat (higher heat will have a higher chance). This cannot be triggered by Outlaws (opted-in players) or in Trespassing areas.
    - added this line in the General section:
    • If a player does not have sufficient gold to pay his bounty when either being accosted, or killed by a Guard or an Enforcer, he or she is then transferred to the Prison instance to wait out his bounty.
    • The Clemency passive from the TG skill line does not work while being accosted by player Enforcers.
    - added this line in the Becoming an Enforcer section:
    • Before abandoning either the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood or Iron Wheel guild, all the quests of those guilds need to be abandoned first.
    - changed this line in the Becoming an Outlaw section:
    • Outlaws have the option to go to Court while being accosted, and may also choose to enter Veteran Heists or Sacraments.
    - added this line in the Outlaw Prison section:
    • Players that are killed by a Guard or Enforcer inside the Prison, and do not have enough gold to cover the bounty, are then transferred to their permanently locked cell. Otherwise, they get transferred out of Prison.
    July 29th
    - added this line in the Becoming an Outlaw section:
    • Enforcers have an icon above their heads that Outlaws can easily identify them by.
    July 31st
    - added a new Section at the end called "Discussion Feedback" with the current issues that need resolving or improvement:
    • Players avoiding bounty payment by removing gold from inventory.
    • Swimming Hounds - is it the best solution?
    • Possible exploits and ways to grief.
    • What are your experiences with the current Justice System?
    - added this line in the PvP Justice rewards:
    • Enforcers are sometimes rewarded with new potions:
    Lawful Immovable Draught
    Become immune to knockback and disabling effects for 11 seconds.
    Restores 6695 Health immediately.
    Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for 22,1 seconds.
    Lawful Defending Draught
    Restores 6695 Health immediately.
    Grants Major Fortitude which increases your Health Regeneration by 20% for 22,1 seconds.
    Grants you Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken by 8% for 22,1 seconds.
    August 1st
    - changed this line in the General section:
    [*] If a player does not have sufficient gold to pay his bounty when either being accosted, or killed by a Guard or an Enforcer, he or she is then transferred to the Prison instance to wait out his bountypresented to the Court. Criminals have the choice to Withdraw Funds from Bank to pay the bounty, go to the Solitary Cell to wait out the bounty, or erase their bounty via the Bail Bondsman. Outlaws have the option to fight for their freedom in the Arena, Withdraw Fund from Bank, or go to Prison.
    - added this line in the General section:
    [*] When choosing the Bail Bondsman option, the bounty is then increased by 5% and transformed into "debt". The Criminal is then considered Upstanding, and is unable to perform any criminal activities (just like Enforcers) until the debt is paid. While in debt, players have the option to do the Community Service repeatable quests to reduce the debt. Otherwise, any gold is automatically detracted from the inventory.
    - added this line in the Enforcer Activities section:
    [*] There are also different kinds of repeatable quests called "Community Service" quests. Those include anything from escorting Merchants, delivering crafting crates, finding lost pets and other.
    - changed this line in the Outlaw Prison section:
    [*] By choosing the "Go to Court" option in the "pay bounty" dialogue instead of paying or fleeing, Outlaws are now transferred to an instanced dungeon called Prison. Before being transferred to their cells, players are presented to the Court, where the player is given called Court, where Outlaws are presented with three options: Withdraw Funds from Bank, Go to Prison, where players get transferred to another, group instance, or an one-time option to fight for freedom in the Arena*. Winning a duel will clear that player's bounty without the gold penalty and transfer him/her out of Prison. Losing has no additional penalty.
    - added these lines in the General section:
    • Guards now have the Dawnbreaker of Smiting ultimate and Silver Leash added to their skill pool.
    • Fast travel is disabled while in the Court/Solitary or Prison instance.
    August 6th
    - added this line in the Veteran Heists and Sacraments section:
    • Decoy Hiding Barrel Trap - Enforcers may place decoy hiding barrels in heists or sacraments, which trap an Outlaw that enters that barrel. Once inside the barrel, that player is unable to exit for 15-30 seconds, and the barrel is visibly shaking.
    - added these lines in the General section:
    • Enforcers may buy and place Traps. Only Outlaw Criminals may see an interact with Enforcer traps.
    • Oil Slick Trap - Causes Outlaws with bounties to slip, knocking them down and stunning for 4 seconds. While in the AoE, movement speed is decreased by 70%. Crouching Outlaws with bounties may disarm it.
    • Trip Explosive Trap - Outlaws with bounties are able to trigger an explosion dealing fire damage and additional fire damage over time. Also inflict Major Defile. Crouching Outlaws with bounties may disarm it.
    • Decoy Chest Trap - Enforcers may place decoy chests anywhere in the open world. Once unlocked, the chest explodes, dealing fire damage, breaking the Outlaws stealth and preventing him from entering stealth for 3 seconds. This will trigger a bounty if seen by an NPC.
    • Outlaws are able to quickslot and use a Smoke Bomb - Grants Vanish to the user. Also blinds and silences any Enforcers in the radius for 3 seconds.
    August 7th
    - changed this line in the General section:
    • Decoy Chest Safebox Trap - Enforcers may place decoy chests safeboxes anywhere in the open world. Once unlocked, the chest safebox explodes, dealing fire damage, breaking the Outlaws stealth and preventing him from entering stealth for 3 seconds. This will trigger a bounty if seen by an NPC.
    August 8th
    - changed this line in the General section:
    • Guards now have the Dawnbreaker of Smiting ultimate and Silver Leash skill added to their skill pool.
    - duplicated this line from the PvP Justice Rewards into the General section:
    • The Haggling passive from TG skill line now grants 10/20/30/40% bonus (from 2/4/6/8%).
    - changed this line in the General section:
    • Decoy Safebox Trap - Enforcers may place decoy safeboxes anywhere in the open world. Once unlockedIf forcing the lock or when a lockpick would break, the safebox explodes, dealing fire damage, breaking the Outlaws stealth and preventing him from entering stealth for 3 seconds. This will trigger a bounty if seen by an NPC.
    October 3rd
    - changes in the Becoming an Outlaw section:
    • On-Duty Enforcers have an icon above their heads that Outlaws can easily identify them by.
    - changes in the General section:
    • Guards and Enforcers cannot be attacked unless getting attacked by them.
    • Outlaws cannot start a duel while in PvP Justice combat. If an Outlaw with a bounty is in a Duel, and gets accosted or becomes Wanted, the Duel is forfeited.
    • Every other patrolling Guard comes with a Hound and they share aggro. Hounds chase players without resetting, but are killable. Hounds can also swim, and attack players in deep water.
    • Guards now have the Silver Leash skill added to their skill pool.
    • If a player does not have sufficient gold to pay his bounty when either being accosted, or killed by a Guard or an Enforcer, he or she is then presented to the Court. Criminals have the choice to Withdraw Funds from Bank to pay the bounty, go to the Solitary Cell to wait out the bounty, or erase their bounty via the Bail Bondsman. Outlaws have the option to fight for their freedom in the Arena, Withdraw Fund from Bank, or go to Prison.
    • When choosing the Bail Bondsman option, the bounty is then increased by 5% and transformed into "debt". The Criminal is then considered Upstanding, and is unable to perform any criminal activities (just like Enforcers) until the debt is paid. While in debt, players have the option to do the Community Service repeatable quests to reduce the debt. Otherwise, any gold is automatically detracted from the inventory.
    • The Haggling passive from TG skill line now grants 10/20/30/40% bonus (from 2/4/6/8%).
    • Enforcers may buy and place Traps. Only Outlaw Criminals may see an interact with Enforcer traps.
    • Oil Slick Trap - Causes Outlaws with bounties to slip, knocking them down and stunning for 4 seconds. While in the AoE, movement speed is decreased by 70%. Crouching Outlaws with bounties may disarm it.
    • Trip Explosive Trap - Outlaws with bounties are able to trigger an explosion dealing fire damage and additional fire damage over time. Also inflict Major Defile. Crouching Outlaws with bounties may disarm it.
    • Decoy Safebox Trap - Enforcers may place decoy safeboxes anywhere in the open world. If forcing the lock or when a lockpick would break, the safebox explodes, dealing fire damage, breaking the Outlaws stealth and preventing him from entering stealth for 3 seconds. This will trigger a bounty if seen by an NPC.
    • Outlaws are able to quickslot and use a Smoke Bomb - Grants Vanish to the user. Also blinds and silences any Enforcers in the radius for 3 seconds.
    - changes in the Heat Levels section:
    • Heat levels now apply a bounty modifier similar to Tel Var modifier.
    • The multipliers for the Disreputable, Notorious, Fugitive and Wanted heats are 1,2,3 and 4 respectively.
    • Hounds can "sniff out" Notorious Criminals from greater distances (they have a larger detection radius than Guards). They trigger the "pay bounty", but their accompanied Guard provides the dialogue.
    • Whenever a Fugitive Criminal gains a bounty, there is a chance that a Guard accompanied by two Hounds will be spawned and engage the Criminal. The chance is proportional to the heat (higher heat will have a higher chance). This cannot be triggered by Outlaws (opted-in players) or in Trespassing areas.
    • The highest heat level- Wanted can be only triggered by Outlaw Criminals in two ways: either by attacking an On-Duty Enforcer or Guard, or by choosing the "Flee dialogue" when accosted by a Guard or Enforcer. This does not apply in Outlaw Prison, which is the only Trespassing area accessible by Enforcers - where Outlaws are constantly marked as Wanted.
    • A Wanted can only attack Guards and/or Enforcers that have dealt damage to him/herare marked "On-Duty".
    - changes in the Enforcer Activities section:
    • At a certain level of the Iron Wheel skill line, Enforcers are able to mark themselves as "On-Duty" in the Activity Finder from the Group Menu. This puts them in a queueenables them to participate in Justice System activities and queues them for PvP Justice instances.
    • Enforcers cannot mark themselves as On-Duty while in a Duel, in Cyrodiil, Imperial City, or any Group dungeon, Trial or Arena, and entering any of those will unmark them.
    - changes in the Iron Wheel skill line section:
    • Enforcers cannot use their Accost skill while in Cyrodiil, Imperial City, or any Group dungeon, Trial or Arenaunless they are On-Duty.
    - changes in the PvP Justice rewards section:
    • The Haggling passive from TG skill line now grants 10/20/30/40% bonus (from 2/4/6/8%).
    • Outlaws have increased chances of obtaining stolen loot of higher quality by means of pickpocketing or looting dead NPCs.
    October 4th
    - changed the rewards in the PvP Justice Rewards section:
    Outlaw rewards
    Bahraha's Curse
    Syvarra's Scales
    Shadow Dancer
    Darkstride
    Night Mother

    Stygian
    Sithis' Touch
    Enforcer rewards
    Bahraha's Curse
    Syvarra's Scales
    Magicka Furnace
    Fiord's Legacy

    Prisoner's Rags
    AkatoshMeridia's Blessed Armor
    Jyggalag's Order (new*)
    Jyggalag's Order
    This set comes in any weight.
    2 piece bonus: adds Magicka regeneration
    3 piece bonus: adds 4% healing taken
    4 piece bonus: adds maximum Health
    5 piece bonus: Jyggalag's Blessing
    Immunity duration after using Break Free increased by 3 seconds.
    When breaking free from a Fugitive effect, gain Major Expedition and Major Berserk for 4 seconds
    .
    October 5th
    - changed this line in the General section:
    • Scales of Pitiless Justice DB passive now additionally reduceA new passive called "Renegade" is added to the Legerdemain skill tree that reduces damage taken from Enforcers by 20/30/40/50%.
    - changed this line in the Iron Wheel skill line section:
    UNYIELDING GUARD
    • Reduces damage taken from Wanted Outlaw players by 10/20/30/4015/30/45/60%.
    October 8th
    - changed this line in the "PvP Justice rewards section:
    • Outlaws have increased chances of obtaining stolen loot of higher qualityHigher skill ranks in Legerdemain while being an Outlaw provide a better chance to get higher quality items by means of pickpocketing or looting dead NPCs.
    Edited by Dubhliam on October 8, 2016 8:46AM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Discussion Feedback
    • What are your experiences with the current Justice System?
    • Do you think players should not be given better loot for being opted in?
    • How to deal with Guard respawns? How long should the timer be and where would they respawn?
    Edited by Dubhliam on October 5, 2016 2:10PM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • jeedrzej
    jeedrzej
    ✭✭✭✭
    No sense in my opinion. It will be ignored
    Jeedrzej - Magica Dragonknight lvl 50
    Ealian - Magica Sorcerer lvl 50
    Enerias Kazner - Magica Templar lvl 50
    Marcelius the Strong - Stamina Dragonknight lvl 50
    Anvena Kazner - Stamina NIghtblade lvl 50
    Arcynekromantka Anastazja - Magica Nightblade lvl 50
    Threiva Krwawooka - Stamina Sorcerer lvl 50
    Michael Odważny - Stamina Templat lvl 50
    Ashaia Kazner - Stamina Dragonknight lvl 50
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  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since the mods did not grant my appeal, this will be a new, clean thread.
    @IndyWendieGo , @Tipsy , @NeillMcAttack , we can continue the discussion about PvP Justice here.

    Since I already made some changes today, I'd like some feedback on a particular problematic:
    -added this line in the General section:
    • If a player does not have sufficient gold to pay his bounty when either being accosted, or killed by a Guard or an Enforcer, he is then transferred to the Prison instance to wait out his bounty.

    This will actually make non opted Criminals able to enter the Prison instance where PvP penalties are applicable.
    How can we prevent this from happening?
    How would you deal with opted out players not having enough gold to pay their bounties?
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Daemons_Bane
    Daemons_Bane
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Isn't this just bumping your own thread..
    What I say is MY opinion and MY pov
  • Tipsy
    Tipsy
    ✭✭✭
    So I'll repost feedback I was writting when your previous topic was shut down.

    To the FUGITIVE level ,I'd add UNDERCOVER
    So i'd scrap the automatic "detection refresh" of enforcers.Check
    The criminal awareness would only become active if the criminal player is either tagged by another enforcer & comes in short range of another enforcer.
    Or when the enforcer catches the criminal commiting more crime.
    Since each aliance would have their own justice system and agents coming after fugitives,the fugitive also gets a few escape manoeuvres to play with."thats where ther new "undercover" joins the game.
    (like we discussed with the different aliance agents coming after a fugitive who've commited crime in 2 or more alliances,being able to pit them against each other and use the chaos to escape)
    Also knocking npc chasers out with a blackjack weapon,using certain environmental traps,..So it would become an exciting cat and mouse game for both the fugitive and the enforcers.

    If the player is caught, they have these option;
    -Pay their bounty
    -Attempt to flee (the more innocent option where the players who do this remain fugitive as long as they are not arrested, pve-only.Resist arrest impossible if caught.
    -Resist all(the "you call this a crime?you can all kiss em" pvp choice) wich enables the wanted mode.The reward will increase over time for the wanted player depending on how long they can stay
    out of hands of the enforcers and guards.As the reward will increase for the enforcer depending on how long a criminal has been wanted.
    Since enforcer flag themselves to hunt down criminal players,and the criminal chooses the "you can all kiss em" option.It is consensual pvp.
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tipsy wrote: »
    So I'll repost feedback I was writting when your previous topic was shut down.

    To the FUGITIVE level ,I'd add UNDERCOVER
    So i'd scrap the automatic "detection refresh" of enforcers.Check
    The criminal awareness would only become active if the criminal player is either tagged by another enforcer & comes in short range of another enforcer.
    How would this "tagging" by enforcers work?
    Or when the enforcer catches the criminal commiting more crime.
    Remember that only NPCs can spot crime, not players.
    Since each aliance would have their own justice system and agents coming after fugitives,the fugitive also gets a few escape manoeuvres to play with."thats where ther new "undercover" joins the game.
    (like we discussed with the different aliance agents coming after a fugitive who've commited crime in 2 or more alliances,being able to pit them against each other and use the chaos to escape)
    Although open world would now have PvP elements, it should be restricted to Enforcers vs. Outlaws. There should be no fighting among other players, regardless of Alliance.
    Also knocking npc chasers out with a blackjack weapon,using certain environmental traps,..So it would become an exciting cat and mouse game for both the fugitive and the enforcers.

    If the player is caught, they have these option;
    -Pay their bounty
    -Attempt to flee (the more innocent option where the players who do this remain fugitive as long as they are not arrested, pve-only.Resist arrest impossible if caught.
    -Resist all(the "you call this a crime?you can all kiss em" pvp choice) wich enables the wanted mode.The reward will increase over time for the wanted player depending on how long they can stay
    out of hands of the enforcers and guards.As the reward will increase for the enforcer depending on how long a criminal has been wanted.
    Since enforcer flag themselves to hunt down criminal players,and the criminal chooses the "you can all kiss em" option.It is consensual pvp.

    I have considered the "PvE flee option" before, but in the end decided to go with the opt-out route because people need to have an option that has zero interaction with other players.
    I'm not sure if your suggestions have opt-out in mind.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Tipsy
    Tipsy
    ✭✭✭
    @Dubhliam "Although open world would now have PvP elements, it should be restricted to Enforcers vs. Outlaws. There should be no fighting among other players, regardless of Alliance."

    Its not between different players ,a fugitive could shake off multiple aliiance agent groups of npc agents by ptting them against each other in order to reduce tag time on the map to go undercover

    'How would this "tagging" by enforcers work?"

    tagging has little to do with pvp or pve.So the pve players that attempt to flee can still be tagged
    as well as the players that resist all.
    Its works pretty much like when a witness has " last seen" a criminal.And it shows them temporarily on the map.
    For the fugitive there will be manoeuvres to reduce the awareness tag.
    And enforcers can prolong the criminal awareness by refreshing the tag.
    Edited by Tipsy on July 26, 2016 8:47AM
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tipsy wrote: »
    @Dubhliam "Although open world would now have PvP elements, it should be restricted to Enforcers vs. Outlaws. There should be no fighting among other players, regardless of Alliance."

    Its not between different players ,a fugitive could shake off multiple aliiance agent groups of npc agents by ptting them against each other in order to reduce tag time on the map to go undercover

    'How would this "tagging" by enforcers work?"

    tagging has little to do with pvp or pve.So the pve players that attempt to flee can still be tagged
    as well as the players that resist all.
    Its works pretty much like when a witness has " last seen" a criminal.And it shows them temporarily on the map.
    For the fugitive there will be manoeuvres to reduce the awareness tag.
    And enforcers can prolong the criminal awareness by refreshing the tag.

    There are multiple terms you use here that I don't fully comprehend.
    I am using names like Outlaw, Enforcer, the Iron Wheel guild, Prison etc. as general terms that most forum users will recognize and understand instantly. That does not mean some other names could not be given that are more appropriate.
    Opted-in players will be referred as Outlaws (or Outlaw Criminals), while opted-out players will be referred as Criminals.
    If you could use such terms while describing your suggestions, I believe there would be much less misunderstandings.

    If I understood it right, when you say agent, you mean Guard? As in the NPC Guards that spawn on the Fugitive location?
    Resist All is the name you use for PvP flee, that much I understood.
    Does that mean the "normal" flee is PvE flee?

    As for these tags... I already incorporated them, the way they currently work is:
    • Disreputable Outlaws get an icon above their heads, similar to alliance icons in Cyrodiil.
    • When becoming Notorious, Enforcers are notified (on screen and/or in chat) that there was an Outlaw crime in <area location>.
    • When becoming Fugitive or getting a bounty while Fugitive, Outlaws leave a radius on the Map (just like quest areas) around their location for a short time.
    • A Wanted Outlaw's location is seen on the Map by Enforcers, as long as the Outlaw is not hidden.
    All of this is only valid for Outlaws (opted-in players), since players that are opted-out cannot be accosted by player Enforcers, so knowing the location of opted-out players serves no purpose.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "enforcers can prolong the criminal awareness by refreshing the tag".
    The only Outlaw-Enforcer interaction in the concept so far is:
    1. Accost
    2. Kill
    Since the Accost interaction will result in either going to Prison, a Wanted heat, or the bounty being paid, I don't see a point in
    refreshing a tag.
    An the other interaction (kill) is already very risky to Outlaws, they should have a chance to escape.

    Or was there another type of "tag" that you were talking about?
    Edited by Dubhliam on July 26, 2016 12:32PM
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tandor wrote: »
    This is recreating a moderated thread (which may be in breach of forum rules) and in any event serves no purpose after the proposal was fully aired and debated last time. I don't propose to contribute any further as my final thoughts on the matter were expressed in the penultimate post of that thread (although towards the end I mistakenly put "PvP activites" when I meant "PvE activities" as will be clear from the context - unfortunately I only realised after the thread was closed and it was too late to edit it).

    In any event, this proposal is going nowhere and the whole issue of PvP in the Justice System having been clearly rejected by ZOS really does now deserve to be put to rest.

    Unfortunately, creating a new thread was considered a better option than re-opening the old one by the mod team.
    I know... but it's not my place to judge their decisions.

    I disagree with you, as I think that thread was just about to turn into a constructive discussion before it got closed.
    So there is a lot of debate that can be had here.

    You are entitled to your opinions, just as much as I am to my right to discuss any topic I want.
    Just as other people are able to discuss:
      Necromancer class, Dragon mounts, Jewelrycrafting, Spellcrafting, Unicorns, any other topic that will most likely never get to live servers.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
    Lorkhanovi Sljedbenici regrutiraju!
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    So, thread gets closed and then just re-open it with practically same content and continue? Seems odd but hey...

    So many unanswered issues from the other thread which had mostly the same proposal but here is what i came up with from a quick read thru.

    FOR THE PVP SIDE OF THINGS

    • Guards and Enforcers cannot be attacked unless getting attacked by them.

    So, not only do enforcers get to PVP against some folks setup for PVE style activities they also get the first shot guaranteed? That should make it much easier to win in this than in Cyrodil. i can see how that might be appealing to some.

    • Criminals can toggle the Outlaw status by interacting with a Fence. This toggle is available to players without an active bounty and can happen once every 20 hours. Outlaws are "opted-in" for PvP Justice. Pirharri the Smuggler assistant cannot be used to toggle this status.

    There ought to be an NPC for opt-in opt-out at the brotherhood lairs as well. The one in gold Coast does not have a fence. Seems odd to have to leave the sanctuary before going on the sacrament, run to the outlaw refuge for a sort of "permission" before going on a killing spree then go back to the sanctuary to start the sacrament. Might bother anybody with a strong immersive bent.

    Also, "criminals" is undefined. What does it mean? How does one become a criminal in order to gain this toggle?

    For the PVE SIDE (since a lot of changes seem added to the PVE side even if one never chooses to -opt-in)

    • Outlaws have the option to enter Veteran Heists or Sacraments.

    Obviously, since heists and Sacraments are PVE activities, many PVE players, including myself, would strongly object to having upgrades/expanded PVE content such as veteran modes tied to PVP acceptance. much like, i would expect, many PVP players would object if arenas and battlegrounds and dueling were tied to first succeeding at say VMSA on vet mode. Since these are basically solo instanced play, it makes no sense in itself to link these in this way unless you plan to introduce players as enforcers into the heists and sacraments. If instead you intend to try and get players to opt-in for this tempting trial and then be stuck for 20 hours in PVP crime mode, first thats poor design and second, its easily beatable. Just opt-in the day before you plan to VH or VS, go do non-crime content, then log-in do the heist/sacr on VMODE then opt-out. i have no idea what this is intended to do, other than just lock desired PVE content behind a PVP flag. Can you please explain more what you intend from this rules change if not establishing the precedent for locking desired PVE content behind PVP options?

    • All the locked houses are now marked as Trespassing areas.

    Since locked houses are featured in a number of quests not related to Db and TG, this change seems to have broader impact than justice. have you examined its impact on PVE quests or is this not a concern for you if they break or suffer reduced rewards?

    • Players can no longer be seen by other players while in stealth unless those players are grouped together. Does not apply in Cyrodiil or Imperial City.

    Again seems a fairly sweeping change which would push "grouping" or impose very odd immersive impacts. Any reason this isn't limited to outlaws if its goal is to do something for your pvp system? This seems another broad scope change added as part of a small scope PVP idea? its generally risky to make broad sweeping changes as tweaks to smaller content.

    • Every other patrolling Guard comes with a Hound and they share aggro. Hounds chase players without resetting, but are killable. Hounds can also swim, and attack players in deep water.

    Ok so this makes a significant upgrade to the danger level of guards and even adds the attack swimmers which makes a huge difference... since the player cannot attack back. Will come back to that at the end but...

    If you are killed by a hound (after guard gave up) is it treated as a guard kill or a regular kill? Differenc ebeing a guard kill takes all your looted stuff and gold for the bounty, even if the good were stolen months ago in a far away land. Do the dogs sift through your goods and also figure out which treasure maps came out of troves and which didn't?

    • Heat levels now apply a bounty modifier similar to Tel Var modifier.


    • The multipliers for the Disreputable, Notorious, Fugitive and Wanted heats are 1,2,3 and 4 respectively.


    File this under...will handle this at the end.

    • Whenever a Fugitive Criminal gains a bounty, there is a chance that a Guard accompanied by two Hounds will be spawned and engage the Criminal. The chance is proportional to the heat (higher heat will have a higher chance). This cannot be triggered by Outlaws (opted-in players) or in Trespassing areas.

    Ok of course major issues with this. part of which File this under...will handle this at the end.

    But the more immediate stuff.

    Unless these guards and dogs are blind (are we adding blind guards) this enables a player to spawn guards and dogs into areas they would not normally be. This creates a huge opportunity for players inclined to grief other players to interfere with Injustice activities of other players even though all are opt-ed out of any PVP stuff. this can let them directly impact quests and just generally interfere with other players in brand new ways.

    now for all that stuff i mentioned as "File this under...will handle this at the end."

    A whole lot of this proposal deals with apparently just the PVE side of things, not with the opt-in PVP side.

    A number of these changes some of which i flagged above, directly affect the current difficulty of succeeding at injustice activities. They make it less likely to succeed and more likely to lose or pay bounty etc. They even raise bounty by as much as a 4x factor.

    There was no mention of increasing the value of stolen goods for the PVE stuff.

    So the net result is a massive slam to the overall "value" in performing injustice activities when comapred to other common repeatable activities such as grinding or questing or delving. Currently injustice for repeatable profit is in the middle to lower side of that set in terms of gains over time. Applying a massive hit to that by raising the difficulty and penalties will have a net result of making it even less useful as a set of activities to perform. That WILL result in a lot less play of it by those looking for which activity to spend time at and choosing between activities they enjoy.

    I agree with the notion that currently it is very easy to take time spent on injustice activities and not get caught and get stuff etc. it is EASY content as a whole. But so is almost all its competitions for player time. It is easy and rewarding but on par with the others. making it harder, more likely to lose your other stolen stuff, etc... makes it less likely to be played with any regularity except by those for whom injustice itself is the most enjoyable by far of the options. For all those with it "about as much fun" as the other options the population will move away from it.

    So this seems to be going to have an effect redicing the number of people playing the injustice pve side.

    IMO that is a bad outcome.

    If a player does not have sufficient gold to pay his bounty when either being accosted, or killed by a Guard or an Enforcer, he or she is then transferred to the Prison instance to wait out his bounty.

    Finally, this... with increased bounty levels and heat raisable during a pursuit situation it is entirely possible for bountites to head sky high really quickly - especially if PC got the jump in attack thing before guard came into play. it wont be hard at all to have one mishap turn into a 10k+ or go to prison and go thru even more serious loss of time into a forced major boss etc. unless bounties scale with "level" this means lower level characters will be far more likely to get thrown into the prison thing. Either way this is another major hit to the overall profitability and desirability of the injustice activities and risk. Suddenly yanking characters away can also serious impact other activities such a group play.

    But also a general prison question - under the harsh new justice system... did the guards put the criminals into this debtor prison with all their gear and weapons? Do fully armed and buffed PCs get to fight/sneak their way out because the guards didn't bother to remove their weapons? Finally, why exactly did the prison officials raise the dead fugitive after he was killed by the law? Why not sell off his stuff to pay the excess bounty and just bury the poor slob?

    For some, those who value immersion, like say those who might get upset at seeing crimes committed but not being able to intervene, how do you explain the whole "we killed you and brought you back so you can play a prison scene" thing?

    just the start of questions and issues.... more to follow if the thread lives.



    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The way I used to get kills was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

    Things I Wish Were Different or Added for Housing, Equipment Crafting, Trait Balance, etc
    My Housing Wish List (Functionals)
    Mannequin/Armor-Rack that "stores" a full gear set plus 8 stacks of quickslots for instant swap. Does not need to provide additional storage.
    Storage Containers that help segregate our storage by adding customizad tabs to our inventory lists. Does not need to provide extra storage.
    Mailboxes/Couriers tied to guilds that handle back-n-forth for dailies including writs.
    Gardens, Ore Veins, Trees, Springs etc that serve as the housing based nodes similar to hirelings - providing a daily harvest.
    Minions - "Hired" singers, cooks stableboys etc that liven up the place and may also have some function - "cook or brewer could be a "daily node." Stableboy could be a free daily riding lesson.
    Stairs that work - spiral, cornering and straight. ramps from orcish platforms and planks and bars are Ok but...
    Ledger that allows you to "log" your inventory items character by character with a quick-click and that then you can review with sort tools or output to a file the inventory items listed by character.
    Guest Book: Auto-logs visitors in and out.

    My Equip Crafting Improvements Package
    To include some or all of:
    1. Ability to craft all crafted sets as 4pc or 3pc sets by sacrificing one or two of the 2-3-4pc bonuses. (Adds felxibility in builds setting crafted apart from drops, this may be limited to 9 traits capability)
    2. Ability to up-scale pieces to higher level keeping quality. (new drops scale to you)
    3. Ability to craft lower gear with higher mat, losing the lower cap on met levels. (Fits with scaled nodes)
    4. Drop the 10x mats cost for CP160 over Cp150. (CP 160 drops everywhere now... its no longer s special threshold thing anymore. if you are cp160 every drop set is cp 160 not nine 150 and one 160. So the need for cp160 crafting to be 10x is no longer relevant.)
    5. Allow appearance to be selected from the available style, not set by material. if i like they bosmer cotton look, let me do that even for ancestor silk.

    My Circumstantial Traits Suggestion
    Traits for armor and weapons need complete redesign to achieve one goal:
    Make it so that no trait is "best" everywhere and so that every trait is "best" somewhere and it is obvious where those are.
    [/list]

    My Class & Weapons Wish List for Warden and Sorc
    1. OVERTIME: Change the passives on any class with a toggle/pet to give a brief "overtime" of say 3s/6s where if you swap off the toggle/pet bar the toggle/pet will continue for that overtime without cancel. If you swap back before overtime expires, the toggle continues. This would allow a "risky" setup where your pets and such are only on the attack bar but you can swap-rebuff quickly and come back without losing the pets and armor - but if you get stunned or delayed you can lose them and have to recast.
    2. PETS:
    3. Add a keybind control for pet attack and pet defend instead of the current command pet double key.
    4. Imbalanced Nature: Trade off morphs on the Warden;s Nature's balance to be offensive in type with no healing but various damage or DOT plus debuffs. Change the "for every natures balance" boost to healing to also boost damage if these are slotted. This can raise the Warden DPS at the sacrifice of the healing/utility.
  • Milvan
    Milvan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well...you really want a pvp justice system don't you?
    “Kings of the land and the sky we are; proud gryphons.” Stalker stands, the epitome of pride. Naked and muscular, his wings widen and his feet dig in as if he alone holds down the earth and supports the heavens, keeping the two ever separate.”
    Gryphons guild - @Milvan,
  • senhavran
    senhavran
    ✭✭✭✭
    @Dubhliam you're not giving up, I respect that!

    But if this PvP justice system can not be forced on everyone, that won't stop everyone to kill every NPC's in towns and steal everything in plain (plane? English is not my native language, sorry) sight without any consequences. That's what upset me the most and the reason I could be for a PvP justice system even if I am a PvE person and don't play PvP at all.

    Yet, I think that the justice system as it is can be improved so that a NPC threatening a player to call the guards, actually does, I don't really want a PvP justice system, just a more immersive one where NOT being spotted matters.
  • Divinius
    Divinius
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Since the mods did not grant my appeal, this will be a new, clean thread.
    @IndyWendieGo , @Tipsy , @NeillMcAttack , we can continue the discussion about PvP Justice here.
    I like how you extended a personal invitation to the posters that liked your idea, but conveniently left out the several posters that were opposed but still offered constructive criticism to it, like @Tandor , @STEVIL , and myself.

    EDIT:
    Also, as long as you are willing to admit that PvP Justice is about as likely to be implemented as Dragon Mounts and Unicorns, then I personally have no problem with it being discussed. :)
    Edited by Divinius on July 26, 2016 6:21PM
  • IndyWendieGo
    IndyWendieGo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Since the mods did not grant my appeal, this will be a new, clean thread.
    @IndyWendieGo , @Tipsy , @NeillMcAttack , we can continue the discussion about PvP Justice here.

    Since I already made some changes today, I'd like some feedback on a particular problematic:
    -added this line in the General section:
    • If a player does not have sufficient gold to pay his bounty when either being accosted, or killed by a Guard or an Enforcer, he is then transferred to the Prison instance to wait out his bounty.

    This will actually make non opted Criminals able to enter the Prison instance where PvP penalties are applicable.
    How can we prevent this from happening?
    How would you deal with opted out players not having enough gold to pay their bounties?

    Maybe a bail bondsman somewhere in the system? Maybe in the dialogue along with the court. Activates the bank menu where players could then withdraw the gold and pay things off that way. Maybe also have edicts disabled in there? That could be something that you could potentially explore or nab ideas off of.
    Shattering expectations since birth! Even my cat hates me!
  • Tipsy
    Tipsy
    ✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Tipsy wrote: »
    So I'll repost feedback I was writting when your previous topic was shut down.

    To the FUGITIVE level ,I'd add UNDERCOVER
    So i'd scrap the automatic "detection refresh" of enforcers.Check
    The criminal awareness would only become active if the criminal player is either tagged by another enforcer & comes in short range of another enforcer.
    How would this "tagging" by enforcers work?
    Or when the enforcer catches the criminal commiting more crime.
    Remember that only NPCs can spot crime, not players.
    Since each aliance would have their own justice system and agents coming after fugitives,the fugitive also gets a few escape manoeuvres to play with."thats where ther new "undercover" joins the game.
    (like we discussed with the different aliance agents coming after a fugitive who've commited crime in 2 or more alliances,being able to pit them against each other and use the chaos to escape)
    Although open world would now have PvP elements, it should be restricted to Enforcers vs. Outlaws. There should be no fighting among other players, regardless of Alliance.
    Also knocking npc chasers out with a blackjack weapon,using certain environmental traps,..So it would become an exciting cat and mouse game for both the fugitive and the enforcers.

    If the player is caught, they have these option;
    -Pay their bounty
    -Attempt to flee (the more innocent option where the players who do this remain fugitive as long as they are not arrested, pve-only.Resist arrest impossible if caught.
    -Resist all(the "you call this a crime?you can all kiss em" pvp choice) wich enables the wanted mode.The reward will increase over time for the wanted player depending on how long they can stay
    out of hands of the enforcers and guards.As the reward will increase for the enforcer depending on how long a criminal has been wanted.
    Since enforcer flag themselves to hunt down criminal players,and the criminal chooses the "you can all kiss em" option.It is consensual pvp.

    I have considered the "PvE flee option" before, but in the end decided to go with the opt-out route because people need to have an option that has zero interaction with other players.
    I'm not sure if your suggestions have opt-out in mind.

    It seems hard for me to get people to understand me at times,and I might use terms that seem odd sometimes.Its just that english is not my native language.
    I called them agents and not guards because they spawn at the fugitive's location in the wilderness ,and have different AI to hunt down fugitives rather than patrolling cities.
    The normal flee is indeed pve flee.But that doesn't take away that enforcers can tag you(which is simply marking you on the map ,making NPC agents aware of your location)
    As the fugitive, you have to try to go undercover and there would be different manoeuvres a fugitive can do in an attempt to reduce the time the icon apears above their heads.

    So enforcers act as witnesses (for pve flee) and will be notified that there was an outlaw crime in an area
    and if enforcers are able to catch on to the fugitive and tag them(also useful for a group of enforcers chasing a fugitive pvp flee)
    (no matter if they have chosen "normal pve flee" or "resist all pvp flee")
    There will appear an icon above their head ,so enforcers are able to make npc agents aware of the whereabouts of a fugitive in the wilderness.
    And the fugitive gets a range of manoeuvres to try to go undercover again.
    If the agents catch/kill the fugitive the enforcer gets a boons/reward(less than when they get to kill a fugitive in pvp mode)
    If the fugitive is able to go undercover again,points to the outlaw.(reward is also smaller in pve flee mode as they take less risk)
    This way pve players and pvp players can choose the style they want as both options are fun & have purpose for both types of players

    for the pve flee,players can not directly be accosted by a player enforcer
    Next to accost,kill, the tag would be the "tip/give away the location" option
    For pve flee ,enforcers could only use the tip/give away location option.
    Since the fugitive can benefit from it if he/she is able to go undercover again & the enforcer gets a reward if the fugitive gets caught.(pve flee means accepting surrender to agents or guards,pvp flee means oppose all & everyone can kiss em)
    it does serve a purpose for both.
    Maybe a refresh tag by enforcers would be too much?Perhaps the tag only refreshes if the fugitive bumps into a group of wandering agents?Or in which circumstances?

    Since there would be reward to get without getting involved in pvp for a fugitive,it would be hard to see why any kind of interaction would bother them.
    But nothing surprises me nowadays...
    But also,if interaction bothers them,then why do they even play an mmo?



    Edited by Tipsy on July 26, 2016 7:36PM
  • hingarthuub17_ESO
    hingarthuub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    I am absolutely incredulous. Your original thread was shut down just a few days ago and yet you feel the need to start up the same thread again?

    My original suggestion, just for the sake of repeating myself repeating myself: do yourself a favor - walk away from the keyboard and enjoy the great outdoors.
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