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Cheating and Exploits
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Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't care who or what happened in the past, I wanna know what's being done now and in the future to stop it. I'm too old and too tired to spend hours after work submitting video all the time. I'll do it when I can now but I'm not losing out on play time to do the job a company should be doing for me. I pay for a product that I expect to work reasonably well. My money and time should count for something. If it doesn't, and it's not appreciated best of luck to ya fellas.Edited by Roechacca on June 17, 2016 10:25PM17 -
Runs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Hey, look at that, they re-opened the conversation after a cooling down period just like they said they would.
Did -not- see that coming.
They did not re-open the conversation. They reminded us of the forums guidelines as a way of saying "You can resume your discussion about cheating...as long as it involves no talk about cheating."
And yet, here we are, talking about cheating.
Are we? Because I've yet to see any responses by ZoS that actually answers any of the posed questions regarding this topic in general. I believe a discussion is two-sided. I could care less what random forumers think the answers are. This is not talk about cheating, this is chatter. Until the talk involves substantive contributions from the company itself, nothing is being discussed. It's simply damage control.
I'll have to agree with a previous response to your posts. You are definitely white knighting at this point.
I've worked in technical/customer support in an industry where the answers aren't always simple.
It's not easy, so I can empathize. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut until you know what the problem is and what you're going to do about it, than it is to discuss it with your customers who will hear what you didn't say, and hold you to promises you didn't make. If ZOS doesn't have an answer yet, I don't blame them for keeping quiet. I've made the mistake of speaking too soon.
It's a tricky business.
You're probably right; this thread is probably just here so folks can blow off steam in a controlled environment. But I don't think there's nothing that can be discussed constructively. If nothing else, you can say what you feel needs saying and -know- that they -are- reading it because this thread is being actively monitored.
If being able to see both sides of the situation makes me a white knight, that's fine.
It's not every day I get accused of being too heroic.
The problem is permanent bans aren't permanent. How do we fix this? We make permanent bans permanent. Simple. Easy. 100% fixed.
I reiterate...
How did you guys find out these bans were permanent.
Was there an official list released?
Or is this assumption/hearsay being touted as fact?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.
In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.
We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.
Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on May 30, 2016 4:05PMZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »The bans are permanent, not 24-hour bans. We just noted that we issued the bans within the last 24 hours. Also, our automated anti-cheat system was on, but we adjusted the parameters to more effectively catch the recent cheat behavior.
Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on May 30, 2016 4:10PM
Quotes taken from here.Runs| Orc Nightblade • Chim-el Adabal| Dunmer Templar • M'air the Honest| Khajiit Templar
Oddity| Altmer Sorceror • Drizlo| Orc DragonKnight • Lady Ra Gada| Redguard Sorceror
Taste-of-Hist-Sap| Argonian Nightblade • War'den Peace| Khajiit Warden • Little Warden Annie Altmer Warden
Ports with Blood| Breton Templar • Dirty-Old-Man| Dunmer DragonKnight • Eyes-of-the-Sun| Argonian DragonKnight
Bleak Mystique| Nord Warden • Polychronopolous| Imperial Sorceror • Bullcrit| Khajiit Nightblade
PC NA CP 1250+ and still a noob
At Writs End - A place to complete master writs4 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭
No. That demanding things from the ZoS staff is bad.
Obviously exploits and cheats are bad. And that they don't discuss what actions they take on the forums no matter how many people stomp their feet.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Hey, look at that, they re-opened the conversation after a cooling down period just like they said they would.
Did -not- see that coming.
They did not re-open the conversation. They reminded us of the forums guidelines as a way of saying "You can resume your discussion about cheating...as long as it involves no talk about cheating."
And yet, here we are, talking about cheating.
Are we? Because I've yet to see any responses by ZoS that actually answers any of the posed questions regarding this topic in general. I believe a discussion is two-sided. I could care less what random forumers think the answers are. This is not talk about cheating, this is chatter. Until the talk involves substantive contributions from the company itself, nothing is being discussed. It's simply damage control.
I'll have to agree with a previous response to your posts. You are definitely white knighting at this point.
I've worked in technical/customer support in an industry where the answers aren't always simple.
It's not easy, so I can empathize. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut until you know what the problem is and what you're going to do about it, than it is to discuss it with your customers who will hear what you didn't say, and hold you to promises you didn't make. If ZOS doesn't have an answer yet, I don't blame them for keeping quiet. I've made the mistake of speaking too soon.
It's a tricky business.
You're probably right; this thread is probably just here so folks can blow off steam in a controlled environment. But I don't think there's nothing that can be discussed constructively. If nothing else, you can say what you feel needs saying and -know- that they -are- reading it because this thread is being actively monitored.
If being able to see both sides of the situation makes me a white knight, that's fine.
It's not every day I get accused of being too heroic.
The problem is permanent bans aren't permanent. How do we fix this? We make permanent bans permanent. Simple. Easy. 100% fixed.
I reiterate...
How did you guys find out these bans were permanent.
Was there an official list released?
Or is this assumption/hearsay being touted as fact?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.
In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.
We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.
Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on May 30, 2016 4:05PMZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »The bans are permanent, not 24-hour bans. We just noted that we issued the bans within the last 24 hours. Also, our automated anti-cheat system was on, but we adjusted the parameters to more effectively catch the recent cheat behavior.
Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on May 30, 2016 4:10PM
Quotes taken from here.
Alright...
I know this is going to sound like splitting hairs, but, how do you know those 43 perma-bans are the same people you're seeing back in game? Is it possible there were additional temp-bans that were also issued but unmentioned for reported-but-unconfirmed-instances-of-cheating, and -those- people have returned?
Speculation, of course. I don't know any more, and potentially I know less than the rest of you.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Hey, look at that, they re-opened the conversation after a cooling down period just like they said they would.
Did -not- see that coming.
They did not re-open the conversation. They reminded us of the forums guidelines as a way of saying "You can resume your discussion about cheating...as long as it involves no talk about cheating."
And yet, here we are, talking about cheating.
Are we? Because I've yet to see any responses by ZoS that actually answers any of the posed questions regarding this topic in general. I believe a discussion is two-sided. I could care less what random forumers think the answers are. This is not talk about cheating, this is chatter. Until the talk involves substantive contributions from the company itself, nothing is being discussed. It's simply damage control.
I'll have to agree with a previous response to your posts. You are definitely white knighting at this point.
I've worked in technical/customer support in an industry where the answers aren't always simple.
It's not easy, so I can empathize. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut until you know what the problem is and what you're going to do about it, than it is to discuss it with your customers who will hear what you didn't say, and hold you to promises you didn't make. If ZOS doesn't have an answer yet, I don't blame them for keeping quiet. I've made the mistake of speaking too soon.
It's a tricky business.
You're probably right; this thread is probably just here so folks can blow off steam in a controlled environment. But I don't think there's nothing that can be discussed constructively. If nothing else, you can say what you feel needs saying and -know- that they -are- reading it because this thread is being actively monitored.
If being able to see both sides of the situation makes me a white knight, that's fine.
It's not every day I get accused of being too heroic.
The problem is permanent bans aren't permanent. How do we fix this? We make permanent bans permanent. Simple. Easy. 100% fixed.
I reiterate...
How did you guys find out these bans were permanent.
Was there an official list released?
Or is this assumption/hearsay being touted as fact?
It was definitely stated. See above.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭dimensional wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Hey, look at that, they re-opened the conversation after a cooling down period just like they said they would.
Did -not- see that coming.
They did not re-open the conversation. They reminded us of the forums guidelines as a way of saying "You can resume your discussion about cheating...as long as it involves no talk about cheating."
And yet, here we are, talking about cheating.
Are we? Because I've yet to see any responses by ZoS that actually answers any of the posed questions regarding this topic in general. I believe a discussion is two-sided. I could care less what random forumers think the answers are. This is not talk about cheating, this is chatter. Until the talk involves substantive contributions from the company itself, nothing is being discussed. It's simply damage control.
I'll have to agree with a previous response to your posts. You are definitely white knighting at this point.
I've worked in technical/customer support in an industry where the answers aren't always simple.
It's not easy, so I can empathize. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut until you know what the problem is and what you're going to do about it, than it is to discuss it with your customers who will hear what you didn't say, and hold you to promises you didn't make. If ZOS doesn't have an answer yet, I don't blame them for keeping quiet. I've made the mistake of speaking too soon.
It's a tricky business.
You're probably right; this thread is probably just here so folks can blow off steam in a controlled environment. But I don't think there's nothing that can be discussed constructively. If nothing else, you can say what you feel needs saying and -know- that they -are- reading it because this thread is being actively monitored.
If being able to see both sides of the situation makes me a white knight, that's fine.
It's not every day I get accused of being too heroic.
The problem is permanent bans aren't permanent. How do we fix this? We make permanent bans permanent. Simple. Easy. 100% fixed.
I reiterate...
How did you guys find out these bans were permanent.
Was there an official list released?
Or is this assumption/hearsay being touted as fact?
It was definitely stated. See above.
Yup, read and replied.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Bromburak✭✭✭✭✭However, it is also important that this discussion stay on topic
I doubt that customers and honest players want to discuss this topic any longer with you.
As far I know most of the reports and video material send have not been evaluated or you simply ignored them, otherwise the cheaters wouldn't still play the game.
I understand that things need to be evaluated in detail and from technically perspective you are working on a long term solution but so far there are no visible actions for customers and this not acceptable.
This results in one question, why should we trust ZOS on this matter?13 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ya I got a question. When are you people gonna get a some real cyber security that actually works? Is it a money thing or a time thing that's holding you up? I've thrown a lot of money your way since preorders went up in 2013. So I don't know why we are even here having this problem but I'd like to know when it's no longer gonna be a problem. I'm working two jobs to support my crown store habit and would like a ETA for once. It's just an estimate for crying out loud. I have to give them to my customers all the time. If I get behind I gotta tell em why an apologize. I'd like to see some good customer service about this.
cyber security? oh how i hate that term...
https://willusingtheprefixcybermakemelooklikeanidiot.com/
if you refer to IT security you're wrong, that's a complete different chapter and you may be certain that ZOS doesn't spend as much money on it as they should. (almost all companies do... you know "we are not a bank", "people aren't that much interested in...")
what you are looking for is something of the following:
better:
-management
-developers
-QA
-etc...
We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR1 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Jessica specifically stated it:ShedsHisTail wrote: »Haydenmango wrote: »I am curious, why am I hearing about PERMANENTLY banned players having their bans lifted?
How did you hear these players were permanently banned?
Was there an official list that came out?
Or is that an assumption/hearsay that's being touted as fact now?
That was in response to the complaints about seeing people who had been perma banned back in the game. Not a denial, not a claim that those weren't perma banned people, but literally saying that they reverse some of the permabans (specifically about the hacking issue).ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote:we may decide to give a player who has been permanently banned a final chance after investigating a situation and speaking with them.2 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭KhajiitiLizard wrote: »Just run around in circles when infinite meteors slam into your face...
It would be funny if they reflected said meteors if they could but can't.https://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah2 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
@ZOS_AlanG Dude, you just Nerd Signaled to me with that one! You and @UrQuan ... Bringin back memories of the Precursors.
Oh and yeah, cheaters and hackers are baaaaaaad! <--- Just making sure I'm on topic
I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4501 -
Yinmaigao✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really REALLY want to believe that something good is going to come from this situation.
However, I feel like that is just not going to happen.
I applaud the effort, but unfortunately, it is "too little too late".
The damage is done, the confidence shaken, and unless some major revisions to policy happen soon, ZoS will be hard pressed to regain the trust of the masses.
@ZOS_AlanG please prove me wrong.6 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »Ya I got a question. When are you people gonna get a some real cyber security that actually works? Is it a money thing or a time thing that's holding you up? I've thrown a lot of money your way since preorders went up in 2013. So I don't know why we are even here having this problem but I'd like to know when it's no longer gonna be a problem. I'm working two jobs to support my crown store habit and would like a ETA for once. It's just an estimate for crying out loud. I have to give them to my customers all the time. If I get behind I gotta tell em why an apologize. I'd like to see some good customer service about this.
cyber security? oh how i hate that term...
https://willusingtheprefixcybermakemelooklikeanidiot.com/
if you refer to IT security you're wrong, that's a complete different chapter and you may be certain that ZOS doesn't spend as much money on it as they should. (almost all companies do... you know "we are not a bank", "people aren't that much interested in...")
what you are looking for is something of the following:
better:
-management
-developers
-QA
-etc...
I'm real sorry you hate that term. Must be darn right frustrating to even read my posts. I'd like to help you in this matter. Use the ignore function. Have a wonderful day.6 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Jessica specifically stated it:ShedsHisTail wrote: »Haydenmango wrote: »I am curious, why am I hearing about PERMANENTLY banned players having their bans lifted?
How did you hear these players were permanently banned?
Was there an official list that came out?
Or is that an assumption/hearsay that's being touted as fact now?
That was in response to the complaints about seeing people who had been perma banned back in the game. Not a denial, not a claim that those weren't perma banned people, but literally saying that they reverse some of the permabans (specifically about the hacking issue).ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote:we may decide to give a player who has been permanently banned a final chance after investigating a situation and speaking with them.
You mean, like parole.
Or, that a customer who has been permanently banned can appeal their case and in some instances have that decision reversed if the evidence isn't strong enough?
Oh, the injustice!"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
WhiteNoiseMaker✭✭✭✭@ZOS_AlanG
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Thank you for the thread and attempted dialogue.
However as some have clarified, I believe what is currently missing from the public dialogue is some clear statements that would dispel much of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) being circulated amongst the community. The negative attention being garnered is hurting ZOS's credibility and ESO's standing as a MMO that people can play with any degree of assurance.
Here's some of the things that ZOS can do to help improve the situation:
1) Please address in a clear statement the verity of claims that cheaters caught using Cheat Engine and banned were later allowed to return. No names have to be given. All the general public wish to hear is a binary yes or no as to the truth of the rumors. If exceptions were made, a terse and general explanation of such exceptions without specific details would be helpful in restoring credibility and furthering community comprehension of the situation.
2) Please issues a statement or manifesto that explains ZOS's definition of cheating, exploiting, and ZOS's expected policy on punishments that offenders, reported and caught with documented evidence, can expect to receive. We understand that many factors are taken into consideration, but a general scale of severity helps to reassure the community and further their comprehension that ZOS is taking action.
3) Please continue providing general updates into the ongoing system metrics regarding ZOS's successes versus cheating and cheaters. I realize it sounds like a request for propaganda, but even in WWII daily enemy casualty counts helped to keep morale up on the home front. What is afflicting the community as a whole right now, is poor morale and a perception that the 'war' is being lost.
Once again, thank you for your time and consideration, and I hope that you can respond point by point to our concerns.8 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hello everyone, we’ve started a fresh thread on the matter of cheating and exploits. This has been a big issue, and maintaining an open discussion on the matter is important to us. However, it is also important that this discussion stay on topic, and within the forum rules. In particular:- We do not allow naming and shaming. Accusations of misconduct directed at anyone, even if not explicitly named, are not acceptable. If you feel someone is cheating, any information needs to be sent to us privately. Rules violations can be sent in-game or by submitting a ticket on our help site, and this is covered in more detail below. When reporting someone, please detail who you are reporting and why, the more information you can provide the easier it is for us to investigate. We welcome images and videos. With the latter, if it’s very long a timestamp may be helpful.
- We do not allow disciplinary actions to be discussed for specific members, whether named or not. General discussion of ESO policy is acceptable, but not commentary on what may have happened with specific people. Staff will not discuss the moderation status of an account publicly, or state whether an account has or has not been actioned. Allowing others to speculate on this can lead to a host of problems, and we are unable to clarify.
- Flaming or bashing is not allowed. This goes for abusive and disruptive comments and behavior that are directed at ZeniMax Online employees and ESO community members, alike.
- Demands or threats, specifically directed at the ESO team or suspected exploiters.
- It is important to keep comments respectful, and criticism constructive. We discuss this in greater depth here. There is a lot of value in having an open thread for discussing these problems, but it needs to remain civil and constructive.
We will remove any posts breaking the forum rules. In the last thread we tried to keep moderation to a minimum, but this just allowed the problems to escalate until we couldn’t ignore them. When removing posts we will generally remove any replies as well, since they often don’t make sense on their own, or continue off track discussion. If you feel someone is breaking the rules, we ask that you report the post and not respond to it.
We had closed the previous thread because of the number of problems, and because we thought a break until we had new information would be helpful. We’ve received a lot of feedback that people would rather have an open discussion now, so are putting this up.
As mentioned earlier, and explained in detail in the quoted post below, if you feel that someone is cheating or exploiting please send this information to us. Do not post details on how to preform an exploit, or who may be preforming them, on the forums.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
If you believe someone is cheating, hacking, exploiting, botting, or anything else that violates our EULA and Terms of Service, we want to know but we need you to report them using the appropriate channels. We fully investigate all reports of TOS violations. (See this Support article on how to report another player for inappropriate behavior.)
You can also submit a Support ticket via our website if you need to include screenshots and/or video footage of the player you are reporting. To do so, follow these steps:- Go to the Support page and log in
- Choose “In-Game Support”
- Select the “Report a Player” subcategory
- Fill out the fields with as much detail as possible – if you know reproduction steps for what the player you’re reporting is doing, even better.
- Attach any related files (screenshots, videos, etc.)
- Hit the “Submit” button
Lastly, we are still going to wipe the Veteran Maelstrom Arena Leaderboards on the PC/Mac megaservers within the next few weeks.
Is it naming and shaming when we show chat logs of unbanned players laughing at ZOS's stupidity for letting them come back after blatant hacking, or does that fall under insulting ZOS employees?
Either way. You made a mistake in judgement, that's okay we all do occasionally. You can't hide it. Please fix it.
5 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Some of us actually know some of the people that were perma-banned only to return to the game a week later.ShedsHisTail wrote: »I know this is going to sound like splitting hairs, but, how do you know those 43 perma-bans are the same people you're seeing back in game? Is it possible there were additional temp-bans that were also issued but unmentioned for reported-but-unconfirmed-instances-of-cheating, and -those- people have returned?
Speculation, of course. I don't know any more, and potentially I know less than the rest of you.
And by "know" i mean virtually, in-game, being members of the same guild(s).
5 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is it naming and shaming when we show chat logs of unbanned players laughing at ZOS's stupidity for letting them come back after blatant hacking, or does that fall under insulting ZOS employees?
Either way. You made a mistake in judgement, that's okay we all do occasionally. You can't hide it. Please fix it.
Pretty sure you can name and shame all you want in an official report.
It's making it public that gets you in trouble."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
You are deliberately misunderstanding the context. Jessica's reply was specifically to the outrage over a specific person who had been perma banned, who had video evidence of him using the cheat engine, and as of 2 days ago has been back in game on his 'banned' account.ShedsHisTail wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Jessica specifically stated it:ShedsHisTail wrote: »Haydenmango wrote: »I am curious, why am I hearing about PERMANENTLY banned players having their bans lifted?
How did you hear these players were permanently banned?
Was there an official list that came out?
Or is that an assumption/hearsay that's being touted as fact now?
That was in response to the complaints about seeing people who had been perma banned back in the game. Not a denial, not a claim that those weren't perma banned people, but literally saying that they reverse some of the permabans (specifically about the hacking issue).ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote:we may decide to give a player who has been permanently banned a final chance after investigating a situation and speaking with them.
You mean, like parole.
Or, that a customer who has been permanently banned can appeal their case and in some instances have that decision reversed if the evidence isn't strong enough?
Oh, the injustice!
Do you agree that someone with video evidence of them using a client hack should be allowed to appeal? Is that what you are saying? Or are you just tying to draw out your constant complaints-about-people-complaining that you've been making the past few days?10 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm all for giving people second chances when they deserve it. But there are well-known cheaters in the game. And almost everyone in the community know who they are. It is particularly these individuals that shouldn't have been given a another chance. When you banned them, Zos, there was a ripple of relief in the pvp community. And we felt good when we logged in, knowing that we wouldn't have to see these cheaters again. We began to have some faith in you. And now that these cheaters are back in the game, not on new accounts, but on their original accounts...we are really speechless. You really missed the ball here.5 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You are deliberately misunderstanding the context. Jessica's reply was specifically to the outrage over a specific person who had been perma banned, who had video evidence of him using the cheat engine, and as of 2 days ago has been back in game on his 'banned' account.ShedsHisTail wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Jessica specifically stated it:ShedsHisTail wrote: »Haydenmango wrote: »I am curious, why am I hearing about PERMANENTLY banned players having their bans lifted?
How did you hear these players were permanently banned?
Was there an official list that came out?
Or is that an assumption/hearsay that's being touted as fact now?
That was in response to the complaints about seeing people who had been perma banned back in the game. Not a denial, not a claim that those weren't perma banned people, but literally saying that they reverse some of the permabans (specifically about the hacking issue).ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote:we may decide to give a player who has been permanently banned a final chance after investigating a situation and speaking with them.
You mean, like parole.
Or, that a customer who has been permanently banned can appeal their case and in some instances have that decision reversed if the evidence isn't strong enough?
Oh, the injustice!
Do you agree that someone with video evidence of them using a client hack should be allowed to appeal?
Sure. I think everyone has the right to appeal. Whether or not that appeal results in a verdict being overturned is up to the judgement of the person judging the appeal. And that's not me; so my opinion on that matter is pretty irrelevant. I haven't seen the video, and I lack the expertise necessary to make a valid judgement call.Or are you just tying to draw out your constant complaints-about-people-complaining that you've been making the past few days?
I haven't complained about the complaints. I've complained about forum spamming, and I've offered alternate points of view on relevant issues. Folks are welcome to their opinions and their complaints as much as I am.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's going to be a long weekend . I just realized the time and don't expect any answers till next week . It's a hard issue to put away because it makes me reluctant to even enter Cyrodiil . I know it's even being used in my own faction and I hate it . I'd rather lose a fight then be a jerk to people . We all are just gamers wanting to enjoy our free time even if we fight in a virtual setting . It's just so not cool to even rek a game shared by everyone for selfish reasons . So much waiting for answers ...2 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Some of us actually know some of the people that were perma-banned only to return to the game a week later.ShedsHisTail wrote: »I know this is going to sound like splitting hairs, but, how do you know those 43 perma-bans are the same people you're seeing back in game? Is it possible there were additional temp-bans that were also issued but unmentioned for reported-but-unconfirmed-instances-of-cheating, and -those- people have returned?
Speculation, of course. I don't know any more, and potentially I know less than the rest of you.
And by "know" i mean virtually, in-game, being members of the same guild(s).
Then maybe you should be directing your frustration at them, since they're the ones cheating.
Or reporting them.
Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 17, 2016 11:05PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
Some of us actually know some of the people that were perma-banned only to return to the game a week later.ShedsHisTail wrote: »I know this is going to sound like splitting hairs, but, how do you know those 43 perma-bans are the same people you're seeing back in game? Is it possible there were additional temp-bans that were also issued but unmentioned for reported-but-unconfirmed-instances-of-cheating, and -those- people have returned?
Speculation, of course. I don't know any more, and potentially I know less than the rest of you.
And by "know" i mean virtually, in-game, being members of the same guild(s).
Then maybe you should be directing your frustration at them, since they're the ones cheating.
Or reporting them.
I think that's part of why people are so rightfully disgusted with ZOS. These people were reported, confirmed as exploiting, and allowed back in. CE has apparently been reported since BETA and nothing was done. The anger and outcry you're seeing is because of ZOS inaction and terribad policies, telling players to report exploiters at this point is like an ER nurse telling a someone having a heart attack to go call their insurance company again.Edited by Zheg on June 17, 2016 11:09PM10 -
Bromburak✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsomJust a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.
I actually believe this, but I start understanding why some of them are still playing.
Because the smart guys that stopped cheating before your log investigations are not found by your tool.
So cheater tickets reported by players have not really been evaluated, you just auto ban people by the detection tool.
Well imo this explains everything.0 -
SwaminoNowlino✭✭✭✭✭SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Volkodav just an FYI but you are again violating the forum rules and the rules of the thread stated above by discussing specific moderation actions.
I know it's hard, but in order to keep this from also being closed we need to stay specifically within the guidelines Alan laid out.
What is there to discuss? I can't talk about anything that actually needs to be talked about. If I don't follow these guidelines I'll most likely suffer a longer ban than someone who used third party software to hack the game client. The fact that ZOS is actually giving these people second chances is straight up appalling, and proves them to not be a trusted business. I know many people who've been permanently banned just for offending people, being vulgar, or having too much gold ZOS thought they were a gold seller. These people are still banned, and CE users are not. They weren't even offered second chances, but CE users were. I don't blame Alan or Jessica as they're just the messengers, but something seriously *** up is going on here and there is a person who thought it was okay to do. In my opinion that person needs to be fired publicly and the current attitude reversed if there's ever to be trust between players and the company again.
I want to discuss what's actually happening. If that's too much to ask I'm done; I'll have no more reason to post here at all because it will be useless discussion about nothing.
Agree
Trust me I don't disagree with you all, I was just trying to answer the question in a constructive manner that wouldn't get deleted is all. Like it or not they do own these forums and can enforce their rules how they want, even if we disagree.Xbox NA : CP 160 StamPlar, MagNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, StamDK, StamNB, Level 10 MagDK & MagPlar, StamWarden, MagWarden
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome." - The Balance Lord Wrobel
- And now it sure does, better learn how to bash folks!
I get by with a little help from logic.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »
Some of us actually know some of the people that were perma-banned only to return to the game a week later.ShedsHisTail wrote: »I know this is going to sound like splitting hairs, but, how do you know those 43 perma-bans are the same people you're seeing back in game? Is it possible there were additional temp-bans that were also issued but unmentioned for reported-but-unconfirmed-instances-of-cheating, and -those- people have returned?
Speculation, of course. I don't know any more, and potentially I know less than the rest of you.
And by "know" i mean virtually, in-game, being members of the same guild(s).
Then maybe you should be directing your frustration at them, since they're the ones cheating.
Or reporting them.
I think that's part of why people are so rightfully disgusted with ZOS. These people were reported, confirmed as exploiting, and allowed back in. CE has apparently been reported since BETA and nothing was done. The anger and outcry you're seeing is because of ZOS inaction and terribad policies, telling players to report exploiters at this point is like an ER nurse telling a someone having a heart attack to go call their insurance company again.
You know, as much of a ZOS apologist as a I seem. I get it, I understand the frustration. I really do. I just don't often jump on the hate bandwagon, because there are plenty of people espousing that side of the argument.
I also know what I don't know. I don't know why CE has continued to be an issue as long as it has... I'm not a software engineer and I don't know how it interacts with the game. I don't know what the technical limitations are, or how it keeps happening.
I know, now (thanks Google!), that there are many versions and that it's regularly updated. Perhaps one of those updates has made bypassing the ban possible?
I don't know. And -since- I don't know, I'm not going to level accusations of incompetence or apathy at people who know more about this stuff than I do.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsomJust a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.
I actually believe this, but I start understanding why some of them are still playing.
Because the smart guys that stopped cheating before your log investigations are not found by your tool.
So cheater tickets reported by players have not really been evaluated, you just auto ban people by the detection tool.
Well imo this explains everything.
That wouldn't explain why those people disappeared all at once, and then reappeared at roughly the same time.
Look, I can do this side too!"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0
This discussion has been closed.