Cheating and Exploits

Junipus

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

The only way this is ever going to be fixed is to police the game ourselves. Blacklisting known cheaters in game so they can not get group or guild invites. Outing them in other media than these forums. If the game is very unfriendly to them they will think they should have took the permaban and just shut up.

However this will never happen as people will not stick together on an effort like this. It would take guild leaders to make a stand. And of course most of these people have their followers who would do their best to derail it.

That wouldn't make a difference. VMA is solo so no other players are needed. PvP is so versatile in how you play (not HOW it's played) that you can join up with 2-3 others who also cheat/exploit and continue to play in game while the whole map rages at you.

clayandaudrey_ESO

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

The only way this is ever going to be fixed is to police the game ourselves. Blacklisting known cheaters in game so they can not get group or guild invites. Outing them in other media than these forums. If the game is very unfriendly to them they will think they should have took the permaban and just shut up.

However this will never happen as people will not stick together on an effort like this. It would take guild leaders to make a stand. And of course most of these people have their followers who would do their best to derail it.

That wouldn't make a difference. VMA is solo so no other players are needed. PvP is so versatile in how you play (not HOW it's played) that you can join up with 2-3 others who also cheat/exploit and continue to play in game while the whole map rages at you.

Then if the community can't help themselves this game is truly done. GG ZOS.

Solid_Metal

i tho this thread will be appropriate response to all of those rumors that circulating around, but in the end its just a useless thread explaining rules that all of us already aware of....

what we need is transparancy...we are your customer, we demand transparancy of the system, the service

Kimba_Do

You folks think too much 'in the box'. You really want people to quit cheating? Implement a system where a cheater finds all armor values and resistances reduced to 0, and all incoming damage increased by oh, say 1000%. Add in gear taking triple damage or some such and see how that goes. No bannation needed, so no loss of income to the shareholders, also no need for naming and shaming, as it's quite obvious when a player is made of wet tissue paper. Not enough? Turn all gear hot pink or some other hideous color.

Seems like the dev team could easily have a lot of fun here and greatly reduce cheating in the process.

Bfish22090

i want you to explain to me @ZOS_JessicaFolsom why people have been banned for cheating by video evidence, and now they have been unbanned?

Manpoints

Bfish22090 wrote: »

i want you to explain to me @ZOS_JessicaFolsom why people have been banned for cheating by video evidence, and now they have been unbanned?

Because they are just innocents who accidentally opened something...and attached it to the eso process...

But yes, second chances for hackers, and not for someone swearing, silliness all round.

Alurria

One of the problems is "speculation" trying to look at the whole picture here. With out particulars speculation on our parts come into play. I have read every post in this thread and the one that was closed. Too many people are demanding too much information. Too many people are accusing others of cheating because they look at this in a different way, meaning it's not affecting them as they don't care about pvp, as it pertains to opinions in this thread and the last one.

The rules for conversation are clearly posted. They have explained that the kind of information most of you want is against policy's. So ask in a different way.

Going forward, how does ZOS policy handle people found to be cheating by using third party software found readily available on the internet? And will you as a company pursue these third party cheat engines and shut them down if you can?

What ways can we as a community member help ZOS create a cheat free environment? Lastly, what constitutes a second chance given as it relates to policy for cheating? Is there a posted policy and can you point me to it?

clayandaudrey_ESO

If they policed the game as hard as they police the forums it would help. Not sure why they do not take these moderators who seem to love their jobs and move them to being in game GMs.

If they did that they would not need near the moderation that is now required.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

What's the point of this thread if you unbanned some of the hackers?
What's the point of keep playing fair if it is not 100% chance to be punished for cheating?

Rohamad_Ali

Should at least get to see the Wheel they spin for punishment

NobleNerd

If a person goes out of their way knowingly breaking rules to cheat...... they should be named and shamed! In the real world if you break the law you are fingerprinted, sent to court and publicly talked about through news outlets. If found guilty you are also punished. So far I have not seen anything close to this for those willingly breaking serious rules.

If this type of hacking continues it will create and has created an unwanted environment in the game. Learn from Trion's mistake and take action quickly and harshly to prevent a backlash.

AnnieBeGood

I don't want to know names. I don't want to know punishments.

I do want to know that the 3rd party programmes are not possible any more and I want assurances that this is so. I want to be sure my game is safe and other players and I are working under the same rules.

Trust. Regaining trust once lost is very very difficult.

Turelus

NobleNerd wrote: »

If a person goes out of their way knowingly breaking rules to cheat...... they should be named and shamed! In the real world if you break the law you are fingerprinted, sent to court and publicly talked about through news outlets. If found guilty you are also punished. So far I have not seen anything close to this for those willingly breaking serious rules.

If this type of hacking continues it will create and has created an unwanted environment in the game. Learn from Trion's mistake and take action quickly and harshly to prevent a backlash.

Again naming and shaming brings nothing but to appease some community members desire to point fingers, validate their opinions etc.

What the game needs if for there to actually be an enforcement system we can get trust and believe in. You'll soon know if x member of the community is banned because they won't be in the game again.

For me personally I don't care about who was banned, only that they are actually banned or have actions taken against their accounts, right now it doesn't feel like that's happening which is why do many of us are angry about it.

A question to everyone in the community, and some honest answers please.

Would you be angry if ZOS had said the vMSA player who is back was suspended for 2 weeks only, but had all vMSA related items removed form the account and some gold removed due to previous sales of items? Their account is on it's final strike and they gained nothing but were allowed one last chance.

Is the anger here over the fact ZOS failed to communicate and hand out a punishment which penalised the player, or that they give people a second chance? Basically would you all be happy if ZOS had an account strike system as long as they were also backing it up with item removals etc?

Thornen

AnnieBeGood wrote: »

I don't want to know names. I don't want to know punishments.

I do want to know that the 3rd party programmes are not possible any more and I want assurances that this is so. I want to be sure my game is safe and other players and I are working under the same rules.

Trust. Regaining trust once lost is very very difficult.

More like nigh on impossible....the fact that were still waiting on an official statement rather than the same copy paste 'don't say bad stuff' response doesn't instil me with a sense of confidence. Ontop of the forum editing that's been going I expect the response to be generic and what we have already heard.

In all honesty its stuff like this ontop of bugs and performance issues that when people ask me if they should give ESO a go I say 'no, maybe if they actually took the time to fix the game and test those fixes, but unless your a narcissist or just don't pvp stay the hell away.'

Solid_Metal

AnnieBeGood wrote: »

I don't want to know names. I don't want to know punishments.

I do want to know that the 3rd party programmes are not possible any more and I want assurances that this is so. I want to be sure my game is safe and other players and I are working under the same rules.

Trust. Regaining trust once lost is very very difficult.

i can assure you its impossible, cheaters always exist, and the cheat technic will always evolve and and beat the game security

the REAL problem here, the lack of BALLS/GUT ZoS have, they cant even enforce they own rules, in the end all of those cheaters have nothing to afraid of

rfennell_ESO

I didn't have much a problem with the cooldown on the topic.

I don't need names or what their punishment was/is.

I really don't even need ZOS to ever discuss this issue again.

What I need to see is the cheats gone. Just detect them, ban them, wave goodbye.

If in one month's time the cheatgate scandal is something people "recall" (or two months, three months), that's the goal here. Just get rid of the current crop of cheating and the cheaters engaged in it and perma ban their accounts. Stick to the TOS that you make everyone accept and move on.

In truth, the players that were probably screwing around with CE and whatever other programs that were being used that want to keep playing this game... most of them have stopped. The ones that really don't care because they are moving to CU regardless and want to troll people and post bragging vids and be children... haven't stopped.

I'm fine with people that took the dark path out of curiosity and then abandoned it because they love this game and want to continue playing being allowed to play (with a warning on their account).

I just want it over.

Thornen

Turelus wrote: »

A question to everyone in the community, and some honest answers please.

Would you be angry if ZOS had said the vMSA player who is back was suspended for 2 weeks only, but had all vMSA related items removed form the account and some gold removed due to previous sales of items? Their account is on it's final strike and they gained nothing but were allowed one last chance.
?

Yes. Cheating should be immediate and permanent ban with no do overs no matter what it was. The only time people should have their bans lifted with a 2nd chance is with exploits and even then their account should be stripped of all materials, gold and items.

Edit: to clarify that cheating = using third party software or external hacking of the game.

Zoner

I'm not upset at the players who hacked as much as ZOS's handling of this whole situation. It's pretty much the player base screaming st them to do something while Zos does everything to PROTECT the offenders. Don't say anything bad about them, give them a pat on the head and a cookie and give them their account back.

How can they justify any permabans at all when this goes unpunished.

ManDraKE

bugmom wrote: »

I have been playing since shortly after launch and am very confused about this topic. I see people cheating and exploiting and using macros in PvP ALL the time and nothing ever seems to happen. ]

how do you know they are cheating or using macros? 90% of my time in the game is on PvP, and i haven't seen more than a very few players that produce me some suspicious. I find odd that you suffer the cheats so much, maybe is just a matter of learning the game mechanics to understand what those players are doing better than you

jaye63

I've seen an exploit used. camping unattended areas you can steal from. And there's a specific detail to it that I think would be a violation to add in so ... not adding that in unless asked.

But since it's unattended by any NPC, wouldnt this be an intended situation?

Turelus

jaye63 wrote: »

I've seen an exploit used. camping unattended areas you can steal from. And there's a specific detail to it that I think would be a violation to add in so ... not adding that in unless asked.

But since it's unattended by any NPC, wouldnt this be an intended situation?

Unless it's a bug which gives them better spawn rates, better loot, respawns when it's not meant to etc. it's not an exploit and just normal farming.

If there is something fishy going on with game mechanics and it's an obvious bug being abused then do a /bug to report it. Contact customer service to confirm it's a bug, if it is then you can report people you see doing it for exploiting, then PM the community team on the forums for information on how it's being done and how to reproduce it.

Then hope they actually give a damn and do anything, but don't hold your breath.

Xylphan

ManDraKE wrote: »

bugmom wrote: »

I have been playing since shortly after launch and am very confused about this topic. I see people cheating and exploiting and using macros in PvP ALL the time and nothing ever seems to happen. ]

how do you know they are cheating or using macros? 90% of my time in the game is on PvP, and i haven't seen more than a very few players that produce me some suspicious. I find odd that you suffer the cheats so much, maybe is just a matter of learning the game mechanics to understand what those players are doing better than you

When you hit someone with a full rotation and their health bar doesn't drop, that's a pretty good indication. When you're hit by infinite meteors, that's also another good indication.

The cheats being discussed are not whiners complaining about getting pwned. The cheats are damn obvious that they're cheats. There are youtube videos showing said cheats. There are websites that tell you how to do said cheats. There are screen captures of players admitting they use said cheats and gloating about it.

MuddledMuppet

I don't understand why we need a no naming shaming policy anyway. Most people can tell the difference between grudge naming and legitimate, consensus and peer review do the rest, zos can be judge.

In most civilised societies, those who break the rules are made known, it is considered in the public intrerest to do so.

There is a direct corrolation here, it is in the gaming communities interest to know who the cheats are, equally, to know those who sling unjustifiable accusations. We can avoid/refuse to team with both groups, that majority who believe in fair play in both gaming and those who are ever ready to accuse and attempts to destroy someone's good name with no evidence.

Personally I want to play with neither group, I suspect most people are the same.

jaye63

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I don't understand why we need a no naming shaming policy anyway. Most people can tell the difference between grudge naming and legitimate, consensus and peer review do the rest, zos can be judge.

In most civilised societies, those who break the rules are made known, it is considered in the public intrerest to do so.

There is a direct corrolation here, it is in the gaming communities interest to know who the cheats are, equally, to know those who sling unjustifiable accusations. We can avoid/refuse to team with both groups, that majority who believe in fair play in both gaming and those who are ever ready to accuse and attempts to destroy someone's good name with no evidence.

Personally I want to play with neither group, I suspect most people are the same.

Because one letter wrong in the name and now an innocent gets harassed. Just send the name in a report and let them investigate.

Alurria

Turelus wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

If a person goes out of their way knowingly breaking rules to cheat...... they should be named and shamed! In the real world if you break the law you are fingerprinted, sent to court and publicly talked about through news outlets. If found guilty you are also punished. So far I have not seen anything close to this for those willingly breaking serious rules.

If this type of hacking continues it will create and has created an unwanted environment in the game. Learn from Trion's mistake and take action quickly and harshly to prevent a backlash.

Again naming and shaming brings nothing but to appease some community members desire to point fingers, validate their opinions etc.

What the game needs if for there to actually be an enforcement system we can get trust and believe in. You'll soon know if x member of the community is banned because they won't be in the game again.

For me personally I don't care about who was banned, only that they are actually banned or have actions taken against their accounts, right now it doesn't feel like that's happening which is why do many of us are angry about it.

A question to everyone in the community, and some honest answers please.

Would you be angry if ZOS had said the vMSA player who is back was suspended for 2 weeks only, but had all vMSA related items removed form the account and some gold removed due to previous sales of items? Their account is on it's final strike and they gained nothing but were allowed one last chance.

Is the anger here over the fact ZOS failed to communicate and hand out a punishment which penalised the player, or that they give people a second chance? Basically would you all be happy if ZOS had an account strike system as long as they were also backing it up with item removals etc?

Yes I believe in second chances. Why? Because we are all human and make mistakes. I agree that a persons character should be taken back to the point they were at when caught cheating. Then they should be monitored for 3-6months afterwards. People are people we all make mistakes. Play nice or leave the game. If caught again then permanately ban them. I don't care who they are as long as I know there is a system in place to deal with cheaters. I also think some folks don't really know how to recognize what cheating is and report out of ignorance as much as malice.

Turelus

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I don't understand why we need a no naming shaming policy anyway. Most people can tell the difference between grudge naming and legitimate, consensus and peer review do the rest, zos can be judge.

In most civilised societies, those who break the rules are made known, it is considered in the public intrerest to do so.

There is a direct corrolation here, it is in the gaming communities interest to know who the cheats are, equally, to know those who sling unjustifiable accusations. We can avoid/refuse to team with both groups, that majority who believe in fair play in both gaming and those who are ever ready to accuse and attempts to destroy someone's good name with no evidence.

Personally I want to play with neither group, I suspect most people are the same.

Let's say someone calls you out as an exploiter.

They see you running around doing something which doesn't add up and they call you on it. They record it and post a video screaming that you're an exploiter and that you abuse the game. ZOS don't ban you because you're innocent but it doesn't matter any more because the damage is done.

There will be people in the community which will believe you're an exploiter because it was said you were and a video which didn't add up was posted. You now get harassed daily for being an exploiter, people tell you you're a filthy cheat in zone chat, PUG groups won't take you, your guilds kick you etc. your entire gaming experience is ruined but you did nothing wrong, just someone ruined your name by not understanding the game mechanics.

That's why naming and shaming is bad from the community, as for ZOS naming and shaming why does it matter? As long as the person is getting actual punishment for what they did then there is no need to know anything else. However once again as we all know ZOS don't remove items from accounts and most bans turn out to only be temporary or can be revoke via appeal, in which case the offender only benefits.

MuddledMuppet

Guys, I said with justifying evidence, like what happens in the real world. By the time we reach adulthood we're all aware that people make stuff up, we learn to take everything into account when we receive an accusation and not just blindly believe whatever some says. Posting a video that doesn't prove cheating would have the opposite effect and reveal the accuser for what they are.

Whatzituyah

@MuddledMuppet Is right we shouldn't believe everything someone told us. If it sounds to ridiculous to be true it probably is. So some of the people saying that they got unbanned are looking for attention which is probably a violation in itself you probably should report that.

xANTIxMATTERx

Unbanning these few cheaters is going to cause a lot more harm than if you just kept them banned. Many loyal players who have never cheated are losing faith in the game. This problem is not only about specific players exploiting. Its the fact that there are no actual repercussions for people who do cheat and that hurts the games integrity

SirAndy

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Unbanning these few cheaters is going to cause a lot more harm than if you just kept them banned. Many loyal players who have never cheated are losing faith in the game. This problem is not only about specific players exploiting. Its the fact that there are no actual repercussions for people who do cheat and that hurts the games integrity

Sounds simple, doesn't it?