They are clearly forcing them to appear because PTS is limited and it would take months to surface the new ones through the normal rotation... Looking any further into that is just trying to find a problem where one doesn't exist.
They are clearly forcing them to appear because PTS is limited and it would take months to surface the new ones through the normal rotation... Looking any further into that is just trying to find a problem where one doesn't exist.
We _think_ they are forcing them to appear on PTS so we can see what the new ones are. We think this because it makes a certain amount of sense. To us. Is it real, or is it high grade Copium? ZOS has not _said_ that they are doing this, so what makes perfect sense to us might be different than what ZOS is thinking.
I would rather they come out and say, in some detail, what will be on live. No "player testable, you'll find out when it hits Live"... just tell us what to expect.
They are clearly forcing them to appear because PTS is limited and it would take months to surface the new ones through the normal rotation... Looking any further into that is just trying to find a problem where one doesn't exist.
BergisMacBride wrote: »They are clearly forcing them to appear because PTS is limited and it would take months to surface the new ones through the normal rotation... Looking any further into that is just trying to find a problem where one doesn't exist.
Fair enough. That's a decent assumption and most certainly the vast majority of use are hoping that is what is happening now on PTS.
Couple of points though:
1. Assuming your assumptions are correct, then ZOS most certainly should have put it in the patch nodes to give us a heads up about "what you see is not what you'll get" on the PTS. It would've taken at most 30 seconds to compose the statement and add them to the patch notes. Since there's no qualification in the patch notes, we are left to divine their intent and all we have to go off is what's on PTS. Assuming your reasonable assumption is correct then they could pop in here to provide any clarifications. So far, crickets from ZOS....the lack of communication is on THEM, not us.
2. As has been argued many times by the vast majority of the players on this thread, even if these new endeavors are going to just replace\rotate through their current category in the endeavor choices each day\week, it is clear from the feedback on this thread that the vast majority of respondents DO NOT want these new endeavors over the ones they are replacing. They introduce unneeded and unsolicited restrictions - I'm talking about the specific dungeon\trial quests and the new trend to have to group with a guildie for some activities.
3. Even though I have access to all the game content and don't personally have a problem doing harrowstorms, geysers or maybe an NPC ToT game for my endeavor, several of the new activities including some of the specific dungeons\trials are gated behind DLC content for which several players will not have access.
I'll just end by saying IMO this entire patch has by far been the most underwhelming one from ZOS, and it's not just the lack of content that they forewarned us about. The "Quality of Life" changes have been thin\subpar and some of the changes like endeavors have everyone up in arms and\or trying to divine their true intent. They've also completely ignored several chronic pain points such as stacked healing in PvP. Combine that with absolutely NO INTERACTION ON ANY TOPIC by them on the PTS forums since the patch dropped and it's real easy to come to the conclusion that they are transitioning to a modified version of maintenance mode with the game.
That's not an optimistic outlook for a game I've played, continue to play and have loved since launch, but it's an assumption supported by the current evidence at hand.
Hi all, we're following up on some of your feedback regarding the current Endeavors being tested on the PTS. For us, the function of the PTS is not only for the community to see and test content early, but it’s a way for us to test ideas in a number of ways.
We want to stress that the way Endeavors are currently arranged on the PTS is for testing purposes. However, when they are on the live server, they will be curated along with existing Endeavors to ensure there is flexibility in the kinds of Endeavors offered to players of various skill levels. As such, you should not see all five daily Endeavors tied to only completing dungeons, for example.
The same can be said for Endeavors that are tied to specific Chapters or content. The goal is not to make all the Endeavors for the day or week tied to owning a Chapter. The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
We hope this helps provide some clarity on the thought process regarding the Endeavors currently on the PTS. We are listening and relaying your feedback to our teams, so please continue to share your ideas and input. Thanks all.
The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
NotoriousBTK wrote: »The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
I'm glad the team is listening to our feedback. Just want to point out that the changes with the specific dungeon endeavor does not add a more diverse way to earn Seals. It's the same as the old way, only more restrictive, taking away the player's choice of which dungeon to complete. This feels like we are being told we are getting more when we're really not.
Hi all, we're following up on some of your feedback regarding the current Endeavors being tested on the PTS. For us, the function of the PTS is not only for the community to see and test content early, but it’s a way for us to test ideas in a number of ways.
We want to stress that the way Endeavors are currently arranged on the PTS is for testing purposes. However, when they are on the live server, they will be curated along with existing Endeavors to ensure there is flexibility in the kinds of Endeavors offered to players of various skill levels. As such, you should not see all five daily Endeavors tied to only completing dungeons, for example.
The same can be said for Endeavors that are tied to specific Chapters or content. The goal is not to make all the Endeavors for the day or week tied to owning a Chapter. The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
We hope this helps provide some clarity on the thought process regarding the Endeavors currently on the PTS. We are listening and relaying your feedback to our teams, so please continue to share your ideas and input. Thanks all.
BergisMacBride wrote: »Hi all, we're following up on some of your feedback regarding the current Endeavors being tested on the PTS. For us, the function of the PTS is not only for the community to see and test content early, but it’s a way for us to test ideas in a number of ways.
We want to stress that the way Endeavors are currently arranged on the PTS is for testing purposes. However, when they are on the live server, they will be curated along with existing Endeavors to ensure there is flexibility in the kinds of Endeavors offered to players of various skill levels. As such, you should not see all five daily Endeavors tied to only completing dungeons, for example.
The same can be said for Endeavors that are tied to specific Chapters or content. The goal is not to make all the Endeavors for the day or week tied to owning a Chapter. The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
We hope this helps provide some clarity on the thought process regarding the Endeavors currently on the PTS. We are listening and relaying your feedback to our teams, so please continue to share your ideas and input. Thanks all.
Thanks for the reply, @ZOS_Kevin. Much needed and appreciated.
Looks like we’ll just have to wait until they’re live to see how much it might impact engagement. You said y’all are following the feedback but doesn’t sound like much will change with these new ones come release and they’ll be added to the curates rotation. Let me just restate that many of the new restrictive ones don’t really enhance your states goal of diversity but are really just plowing the same ground in a more restrictive manner. The world events and ToT are ok I guess but the new dungeon, trials and guild mate group ones are just awful. Lose them and most of us will be fine.🤗
Generally, what you see in the first PTS cycle is what you get on live. THAT is the major issue here.
BergisMacBride wrote: »
Generally, what you see in the first PTS cycle is what you get on live. THAT is the major issue here.
Believe me, I know it. Just have to say my peace before this goes live. When it does go live there will be another thread on the main forums from all the folks who don’t know this is coming, lol.
ZOS is gonna do what they’re gonna do. They almost never respond thoughtfully to player feedback on the PTS. It’s their right. They run the game and call the shots as they see fit. But if they make changes that start to negatively impact my playstyle/enjoyment, it’s my right to take my subscription and crown store $$$$ elsewhere. I’m just letting them know how I feel so hopefully it doesn’t come to that🤷♂️.
We hope this helps provide some clarity on the thought process regarding the Endeavors currently on the PTS. We are listening and relaying your feedback to our teams, so please continue to share your ideas and input. Thanks all.
NotoriousBTK wrote: »The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
I'm glad the team is listening to our feedback. Just want to point out that the changes with the specific dungeon endeavor does not add a more diverse way to earn Seals. It's the same as the old way, only more restrictive, taking away the player's choice of which dungeon to complete. This feels like we are being told we are getting more when we're really not.
Hi all, we're following up on some of your feedback regarding the current Endeavors being tested on the PTS. For us, the function of the PTS is not only for the community to see and test content early, but it’s a way for us to test ideas in a number of ways.
We want to stress that the way Endeavors are currently arranged on the PTS is for testing purposes. However, when they are on the live server, they will be curated along with existing Endeavors to ensure there is flexibility in the kinds of Endeavors offered to players of various skill levels. As such, you should not see all five daily Endeavors tied to only completing dungeons, for example.
The same can be said for Endeavors that are tied to specific Chapters or content. The goal is not to make all the Endeavors for the day or week tied to owning a Chapter. The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
We hope this helps provide some clarity on the thought process regarding the Endeavors currently on the PTS. We are listening and relaying your feedback to our teams, so please continue to share your ideas and input. Thanks all.
Were there that many dissatisfied/unhappy players about the endeavors that sparked this change to add this?
I haven’t read much in the forum recently but pretty sure there were a lot more issues that needed to be looked into over endeavors.
Every time I see something like a specific dungeon or monster, reminds me of what happened when Oakensoul came out and watching like 50 (plus pets/companions) fight the same monster where only top 10 or whatever got any chance at it
I just don’t see how the endeavor system is a problem at all
Unless of course ZOS wants us to get less endeavors. I mean, that could be the goal.
They added the endeavor system so they can say ''you can get crate items ingame'' and not get sued for EU gambling laws. Dont be suprised when they make it harder to earn endeavors.
We hope this helps provide some clarity on the thought process regarding the Endeavors currently on the PTS. We are listening and relaying your feedback to our teams, so please continue to share your ideas and input. Thanks all.
Dagoth_Rac wrote: »Most of these new endeavors seem to be tedious and time-consuming and would pull you out of your regular gameplay for an extended period. But the specific dungeon one might not be bad if done thoughtfully.
tomofhyrule wrote: »I think that world events like Dolmens and Geysers are excellent Endeavors, as we do have Dragons as a current one, but I don't remember seeing other other world events. I also think that Tales of Tribute is an excellent choice for an Endeavor as well. There are also a few activities in game that I have never seen an Endeavor for (and we've had similar Endeavors in the past), and I think would make excellent additions to the list:
[snipped excellent suggestion list]
I would hope that the team would prefer more Endeavors like the above and fewer that go too hard into specifics for group content as we have seen on PTS thus far.
The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
starkerealm wrote: »The Endeavor changes on the PTS are designed to add more diverse ways to earn Seals on the live server, while also maintaining that everyone has a number of options to do them each day/week while playing the game.
Then this does not achieve that goal.
If the goal is to push players towards completing specific dungeons, corresponding to pledges, it would probably be a better idea to simply attach an endeavor to completion of a pledge, as those already have a rotating dungeon format, and would allow for more flexibility. That can be dumped into the bucket with the normal dungeon clears.
It would also avoid the nightmare scenario of pushing unprepared players into DLC dungeons in pursuit of a specific dungeon.
Specific trials would be fine as a weekly (as a supplement to the complete X trials endeavor) however, trials, especially DLC trials, are too time consuming to be worth the nominal 10-15 seals.
Now, a suggestion:
The specific dungeon and trial endeavors might be able to work in a new endeavor category, (for sake of illustration, let's call these "Elite Endeavors") which occupies a sixth optional slot, and counts as an alternative for the three normal daily completions.
For example: "Complete Scalecaller Peak," would be considered completing all remaining daily endeavors,
and award seals based on the daily limit (so, if you had no other dailies completed, it would award triple seals, if you'd already completed one other daily, it would only award double seals, and if you'd completed two dailies already, it would award normally.)
If those are available as a, "I can do this one thing, instead of my normal dailies," and doesn't conflict with the normal pool, that could work.
Additionally, if the goal is to encourage more guild interaction, that should probably offer another, similar, "elite endeavor," alternative. Where you can complete quests, dungeons, battlegrounds, whatever, with a guild member. If these were added in as additional persistent alternatives, that would be significant positive. Do stuff as a guild, and everyone gets rewards.
Within this context, a fourth weekly option that was always a specific trial, would not be a bad idea.
This would offer an incentive to take these significantly more challenging endeavors in preference over the ones we currently have, without harming the current system.
Simply dumping these into the pool is a "QoL change," but it is not a "QoL Improvement."
EDIT: To clarify: With your response, this change is not as catastrophic as it initially appeared on the PTS. However, simply adding, "do this specific DLC dungeon," into a system that already includes, "do a dungeon of your choice," improves neither flexibility nor variety. Yeah, players who optimize their endeavors are likely to slam through FG1 if given the choice, however, most players will hit a daily random dungeon queue, meaning they'll have a randomly selected dungeon (potentially including DLCs.)
As I think I've said elsewhere, I'm not wild about the specific incursion types, I'd prefer to simply have, "clear X incursion(s)," simply because I'm not wild about doing those during the "off-season." And I don't see the Harrowstorm population picking up significantly for 10 seals, even for a single day, though I'd be happy to be wrong about that. But, given dragons were already on the list, this isn't out of place.
So, yeah, your comments help, but if that's the goal, I think it needs a bit more work, rather than just adding more restrictive and time consuming options to the endeavor pool without giving those options an added incentive. I'd run March of Sacrifices for 75 seals. I might run it for 45, though I'd grumble about it. I would not run it with PUGs for 15 seals. It's 100% not worth the time and suffering for that reward. Same goes for Hall of Fabrication, Maw of Lorkhaj, and really most of the trials. I'd be happy to PUG them if they were a weekly. Hell, I'd be willing to teach people how to clear the twins and run for 200 seals, but for 10? Screw that.