But there is zero indication that they won't look like this. They are ADDING to the endeavor activities. ADDING.
starkerealm wrote: »But there is zero indication that they won't look like this. They are ADDING to the endeavor activities. ADDING.
No, they are adding to the pool of endeavor activates. I get that this sounds like a minor quibble, but for the system as a whole, it has huge implications.
Right now, there are about 110 endeavor activities.
There are 52 dungeons in the game. There are 12 trials. Ignoring everything else for a moment, just on the specific dungeon and trial pool, that would account for over 36% of the potential endeavor pool. Meaning if the chances for any given endeavor to pop up is roughly equal, it would mean that on the average day, at least two endeavors would require you to run a specific dungeon or trial. So, if those are off the table, and your third endeavor is something like, "kill a player in Cyrodiil," you either need to start clearing your schedule for a PUG to repeat wipe in a DLC dungeon, or find a PUG forming for Halls, and expect to spend three hours trying to get 10 seals...
starkerealm wrote: »But there is zero indication that they won't look like this. They are ADDING to the endeavor activities. ADDING.
No, they are adding to the pool of endeavor activates. I get that this sounds like a minor quibble, but for the system as a whole, it has huge implications.
Right now, there are about 110 endeavor activities.
There are 52 dungeons in the game. There are 12 trials. Ignoring everything else for a moment, just on the specific dungeon and trial pool, that would account for over 36% of the potential endeavor pool. Meaning if the chances for any given endeavor to pop up is roughly equal, it would mean that on the average day, at least two endeavors would require you to run a specific dungeon or trial. So, if those are off the table, and your third endeavor is something like, "kill a player in Cyrodiil," you either need to start clearing your schedule for a PUG to repeat wipe in a DLC dungeon, or find a PUG forming for Halls, and expect to spend three hours trying to get 10 seals...
But that isn't how Endeavors work now.
There are specific "slots" that endeavors fall into and an endeavor from one of those slots are chosen each day.
That is why you never see multiple Harvest X resources at the same time in a daily or multiple decons, or multiple kill X delve boss. Because the game has 5 slots with their specific filling requirements and 1 of the options for those slots are chosen each day.
So, the most likely thing to happen is, in a spot where you might get "Complete 1 Dungeon" you may actually get "Complete X dungeon" instead but you won't get two on the same day because they are competing for the same slot in the daily list.
starkerealm wrote: »But there is zero indication that they won't look like this. They are ADDING to the endeavor activities. ADDING.
No, they are adding to the pool of endeavor activates. I get that this sounds like a minor quibble, but for the system as a whole, it has huge implications.
Right now, there are about 110 endeavor activities.
There are 52 dungeons in the game. There are 12 trials. Ignoring everything else for a moment, just on the specific dungeon and trial pool, that would account for over 36% of the potential endeavor pool. Meaning if the chances for any given endeavor to pop up is roughly equal, it would mean that on the average day, at least two endeavors would require you to run a specific dungeon or trial. So, if those are off the table, and your third endeavor is something like, "kill a player in Cyrodiil," you either need to start clearing your schedule for a PUG to repeat wipe in a DLC dungeon, or find a PUG forming for Halls, and expect to spend three hours trying to get 10 seals...
But that isn't how Endeavors work now.
There are specific "slots" that endeavors fall into and an endeavor from one of those slots are chosen each day.
That is why you never see multiple Harvest X resources at the same time in a daily or multiple decons, or multiple kill X delve boss. Because the game has 5 slots with their specific filling requirements and 1 of the options for those slots are chosen each day.
So, the most likely thing to happen is, in a spot where you might get "Complete 1 Dungeon" you may actually get "Complete X dungeon" instead but you won't get two on the same day because they are competing for the same slot in the daily list.
We don't know, because ZOS remain silent on the issue, as is increasingly the case on PTS feedback, that the system of Endeavour selection will stay the same when additional Endeavours are added.
But that isn't how Endeavors work now.
There are specific "slots" that endeavors fall into and an endeavor from one of those slots are chosen each day.
starkerealm wrote: »But that isn't how Endeavors work now.
There are specific "slots" that endeavors fall into and an endeavor from one of those slots are chosen each day.
The problem with the PTS at present is that it clearly represents at least 5 new slots. Specific Base Game Dungeon, Specific DLC Dungeon, Specific Trial, Specific Incursion Type, and Group Activity with a Guild Member.
We don't know exactly what the current slots are, but even with the idea that the PTS has been locked to only display those five slots, that creates a situation where the current slots will be competing with them. In fact, if you're right, this is worse than I suggested, because it would mean that the new Endeavors could potentially represent 40-50% of the potential endeavor pool, in spite of having a shorter list of potential rolls, and a much heavier skew towards group activity focused endeavors.
Say you're correct about the six you outlined. On live, that means that on any given day, there's a 17% of a given type not appearing. Let's say you really don't like Dungeons, well, there's about a 17% chance that you wouldn't have a dungeon endeavor chewing up the slots. If you don't like Dungeons or PvP, then you will, at worst be restricted to 3 specific endeavors, and on almost all days you'll have some choices.
Now, we're looking at, at least, 11 types. Of those, four can roll for dungeons (with a fifth that can roll for a trial), four can roll for PvP. If all three PvP rolls happen simultaneously (cyrodiil quest/BG, kill a player, wandering horror, and complete a BG with a guildie), and you don't like PvP, your option is to kick rocks. If you don't like dungeons then Complete a Dungeon, Complete a Specific Base Game Dungeon, Complete a Specific DLC dungeon, Complete a Dungeon with a Guildie, and Complete a Specific trial, is a nightmare roll for you, and it can happen based on the behavior of the system on the PTS. (Oh, and get a ticket during a dungeon event could also screw you over here.)
So, how are the odds? It's not extremely likely, but it is going to happen eventually. We've already seen days where non-ESO+ players were grabbed by the scruff of the neck and pointed at Cyrodiil, (and I think one day where there were only two non-paywalled endeavors, but I can't remember), so yeah, saying, "you don't know," isn't particularly constructive. The system we can see right now is bad. "Maybe it won't be that bad on live," isn't a valid reason to shut down criticism of what we're seeing currently.
But there is zero indication that they won't look like this. They are ADDING to the endeavor activities. ADDING.
So far, the only endeavors showing on PTS are the new ones.
Simple, fairly not bombastic logic, says that the PTS, a place for testing new things, would be a good place to flood only the NEW endeavors to test them out before ADDING them into the overall pool.
And we know, with the overall pool of endeavors, almost never do Like endeavors show on the same day.
My example, is exactly what we will likely see on live. No need for nonsensical doomsaying over this.
Because they probably don't know themselfs yet how the endeavors will look like.
It wouldn't surprise me to say the least.
Until we don't get any confirmation of how our future activities will look like after the update, we,a good portion of the community are rightly assuming the worst.
StabbityDoom wrote: »Agreed. Let me just say, there's a lot of history of not changing ANYTHING from PTS to live, despite MANY MANY bug reports & complaints. That's the reason for this hubbub - we are assuming the worst based on history, as well as we have no statement otherwise.
Again, I don't think they are adding new slots. They are adding new options to the existing slots.
And I roughly sketched 6, but I think there are likely more than 6. And the dungeon slot is definitely all encompassing as they never appear to overlap on live.
So at worst, your chance of getting a dungeon endeavor will remain unchanged, even with these new options added in. The only change will be the specific type of dungeon endeavor you get.
starkerealm wrote: »Again, I don't think they are adding new slots. They are adding new options to the existing slots.
And I roughly sketched 6, but I think there are likely more than 6. And the dungeon slot is definitely all encompassing as they never appear to overlap on live.
So at worst, your chance of getting a dungeon endeavor will remain unchanged, even with these new options added in. The only change will be the specific type of dungeon endeavor you get.
As it presently exists on the PTS, they have added new endeavor types. You can speculate that those will be rolled into the existing endeavor types when it hits live, but there is no evidence that ZOS will do this.
In fact, there's more evidence to suggest that the existing endeavors are being completely junked, based on the current PTS, than that these will be rolled into existing slots, as that is the behavior that can actually be observed. Now, I can understand if they put a priority on the new endeavors, but they're following a very specific pattern, which strongly suggests that these are going to be rolled over to live, basically, as is.
StabbityDoom wrote: »I am disabled. Do you have any idea how many of your player base is older, disabled?
I cannot do these endgame type deals. My hands hurt doing basic stuff.
What about *casuals*? They barely have the time to do one or two endeavors NOW, you expect them to somehow find the time to run a full dungeon when they have jobs, kids, lives?
I'm horrified. You guys said you were pro-accessibility and I believed you, with oakensoul and the companions. This is a step back. If this is about crates being non-giftable affecting your bottom line, turn it back on and let the money come in even if there's fraud, and fight the bug on your end. At least then you have most of the income.
I'm afraid nobody reads these comments. But I LOVE ESO. You guys know I stick through EVERYTHING, no matter how bad the change. But this one feels directly at people like me. Listen. IF YOU DO THIS YOU WILL BE ATTRACTING ONLY ONE KIND OF PLAYER - and I assure you, people my age have more money than they do. Please listen.
@ZOS_Kevin I hope these messages get to those who matter in this decision. I'm really scared. Thank you.
starkerealm wrote: »But there is zero indication that they won't look like this. They are ADDING to the endeavor activities. ADDING.
No, they are adding to the pool of endeavor activates. I get that this sounds like a minor quibble, but for the system as a whole, it has huge implications.
Right now, there are about 110 endeavor activities.
There are 52 dungeons in the game. There are 12 trials. Ignoring everything else for a moment, just on the specific dungeon and trial pool, that would account for over 36% of the potential endeavor pool. Meaning if the chances for any given endeavor to pop up is roughly equal, it would mean that on the average day, at least two endeavors would require you to run a specific dungeon or trial. So, if those are off the table, and your third endeavor is something like, "kill a player in Cyrodiil," you either need to start clearing your schedule for a PUG to repeat wipe in a DLC dungeon, or find a PUG forming for Halls, and expect to spend three hours trying to get 10 seals...
But that isn't how Endeavors work now.
There are specific "slots" that endeavors fall into and an endeavor from one of those slots are chosen each day.
That is why you never see multiple Harvest X resources at the same time in a daily or multiple decons, or multiple kill X delve boss. Because the game has 5 slots with their specific filling requirements and 1 of the options for those slots are chosen each day.
So, the most likely thing to happen is, in a spot where you might get "Complete 1 Dungeon" you may actually get "Complete X dungeon" instead but you won't get two on the same day because they are competing for the same slot in the daily list.
Edited to add that based on Endeavor trends, I believe the categories shake out roughly to:
1. Combat (Kill X, Kill with Weapons, Kill with Skils, use Ult)
2. Dungeon (Complete Dungeon, Kill Public Dungeon Group Boss, Kill Delve Boss)
3. Overland Encounters (Kill WB, Complete World Event,
4. Overland Collecting (Maps, chests, harvesting)
4. Crafting (Decon X, Craft X)
5. PVP (BG, Damage with Siege, Duel, Imperial City things)
I think the Overland stuff is probably broken into more categories though.
Has anyone from ZOS answered yet?
I believe it when I see it. But I doubt that it will be the case. I agree with everyone saying that it's their way to make seals less accessible.redspecter23 wrote: »I had a thought earlier today. What if (big if) these endeavors are intended to take longer than our current pool by design AND they will award an amount of seals equivalent to that extra time cost. Right now we get 15 seals per daily. What if these awarded 150 per daily?