U39 - PTS Endeavours: more choice is less it seems

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Today's PTS endeavors:

As i pointes out yesterday. Again the endeavor ar the same, just at different location and presented in the same order

1 base game dungeon
1 dlc dungeon
1 world event
1 trial
1 with a guild mate

Seem realy curated and not randon to me

NotoriousBTK

Even if these specific dungeon endeavors are only going to be live during the Undaunted event, which some have suggested, I really hope that there's only 1 specific dungeon endeavor per day. More than 1 is excessive unless they are giving more than 5 options as well.

KlauthWarthog

You might want to chime in before things get all torchy and pitchforky, @ZOS_Kevin.

Elsonso

FayJolyn wrote: »

What I find really dishonest is that during the Preview stream they made it sound like an actual improvement. The wording was vague enough and unspecific so none of us suspected a thing until we saw the actual changes on the PTS.

They sort of did the same thing for Account-wide Achievements. Perhaps this is an indication that they don't want to dive into details when they introduce something they know will not be popular. They mention it, sort of "in passing". If this is the case, we can expect them to go full turtle until the discontent dies down through fatigue or attrition.

We'll see if this is a trend for a pattern, or just happenstance.

ApoAlaia

On third thought these endeavours wouldn't be that bad IF only one popped up out of the possible five AND it awarded a significantly larger amount of seals, a multiplier that reflects how out of one's way one would have to go to complete them compared to the ones currently available on live.

Doing an average of all the current ones it would be around 1 minute per 15 seals therefore completing Maw of Lorkhaj for instance should award at the very least 450 seals.

It would give players that can invest the extra time an opportunity to earn seals at a higher rate.

However this is half wild speculation half wishful thinking and not without problems (creating further divides between 'haves' and 'have nots' is not without issues of its own).

Alendrin

These are horrid

StabbityDoom

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

You might want to chime in before things get all torchy and pitchforky, @ZOS_Kevin.

I love Kevin, and I doubt he has control over a response to this now. I'm not going to get all torchy and pitchforky - ever - but I do suggest any streamers to please address this on your streams. That's how important I think this is. Even consider inviting ZOS peeps to discuss it with you. For some reason, we get heard better when streamers make things loud.

I do hope you guys clarify this ( @ZOS_GinaBruno especially) before gamemags, or kotaku, or some other place gets a hold of this and starts smearing ESO for being non-accessible, less casual, and harder on people with low incomes.

Waiting so long to respond is a problem with ZOS, and one of the biggest communication issues. That isn't Kevin's fault or the devs faults. I don't know whose fault it truly is, but I encourage it to stop. Even just saying "Hey we're working on a response to this" helps.

KlauthWarthog

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Even just saying "Hey we're working on a response to this" helps.

Which happens to be why I tagged Kevin in the first place.

StabbityDoom

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Even just saying "Hey we're working on a response to this" helps.

Which happens to be why I tagged Kevin in the first place.

Point taken. He tends to be the one who does that.

starkerealm

Elsonso wrote: »

FayJolyn wrote: »

What I find really dishonest is that during the Preview stream they made it sound like an actual improvement. The wording was vague enough and unspecific so none of us suspected a thing until we saw the actual changes on the PTS.

They sort of did the same thing for Account-wide Achievements. Perhaps this is an indication that they don't want to dive into details when they introduce something they know will not be popular. They mention it, sort of "in passing". If this is the case, we can expect them to go full turtle until the discontent dies down through fatigue or attrition.

We'll see if this is a trend for a pattern, or just happenstance.

Difference being that Account Wide Achievements could, legitimately, be seen as an improvement. I realize it's a point of contention for a lot of people, but in broad strokes, the idea that you can now complete your multi-step achievements across multiple characters did make some of those a lot more accessible for people who'd legitimately earned them, but hadn't done so on a single character.

The problem with AWA was that it meant players who were intentionally trying to complete the achievement multiple times across their entire account, were screwed over, but honestly, that's probably a pretty tiny number of players (and, yes, I was one of those people who got bitten by this change.)

This is just a massive middle finger from whoever worked on this.

StabbityDoom

One last thing. If they wanted to add Trials to something, why not add another Undaunted quest giver who assigns trials? Another person standing there wouldn't hurt anything.

Tommy_The_Gun

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Today's PTS endeavors:

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is undoable.
1. I can solo Blesed Crucible. But it takes some time.
2. I can not solo Moon Hunter keep. Besides it is not base game, so it is paid Endeavor.
3. I can clear Oblivion Portals, but again - time sink for this daily is what time sink is now for current weekly. And again - paid Endeavor.
4. I can not solo Halls of Fabrication, and there is no group finder for it. And again - paid Endeavor.
5. Trial with a guildmate - I am not in a guild and never will be...

I play this game since 2014 and even some one like me would only do 2 out of 3 because the rest is way too elite & end-game. It excludes way too many players.

There is simply too much restrictions. They said that Endeavors is a bonus you get because you get them as you do "normal gameplay". Well, non of this is normal for an average player. Trials, trials with a guild, DLC dungoens and base game dungeons... this is not a normal gameplay for an average player.

Strong dislike for those changes.

TaSheen

Until I see if this goes live, I'm not renewing my annual subs when they come due this month. Back to monthly for now. And this might be the point at which I C&D ESO+ after a month or so....

jaws343

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Today's PTS endeavors:

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is undoable.
1. I can solo Blesed Crucible. But it takes some time.
2. I can not solo Moon Hunter keep. Besides it is not base game, so it is paid Endeavor.
3. I can clear Oblivion Portals, but again - time sink for this daily is what time sink is now for current weekly. And again - paid Endeavor.
4. I can not solo Halls of Fabrication, and there is no group finder for it. And again - paid Endeavor.
5. Trial with a guildmate - I am not in a guild and never will be...

I play this game since 2014 and even some one like me would only do 2 out of 3 because the rest is way too elite & end-game. It excludes way too many players.

There is simply too much restrictions. They said that Endeavors is a bonus you get because you get them as you do "normal gameplay". Well, non of this is normal for an average player. Trials, trials with a guild, DLC dungoens and base game dungeons... this is not a normal gameplay for an average player.

Strong dislike for those changes.

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

StabbityDoom

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

That's what we're worried about - that they WONT look like this. We've heard no confirmation of that. Dead silence, except for what we see on the PTS.

jaws343

StabbityDoom wrote: »

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

That's what we're worried about - that they WONT look like this. We've heard no confirmation of that. Dead silence, except for what we see on the PTS.

But there is zero indication that they won't look like this. They are ADDING to the endeavor activities. ADDING.

So far, the only endeavors showing on PTS are the new ones.

Simple, fairly not bombastic logic, says that the PTS, a place for testing new things, would be a good place to flood only the NEW endeavors to test them out before ADDING them into the overall pool.

And we know, with the overall pool of endeavors, almost never do Like endeavors show on the same day.

My example, is exactly what we will likely see on live. No need for nonsensical doomsaying over this.

reazea

jaws343 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Today's PTS endeavors:

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is undoable.
1. I can solo Blesed Crucible. But it takes some time.
2. I can not solo Moon Hunter keep. Besides it is not base game, so it is paid Endeavor.
3. I can clear Oblivion Portals, but again - time sink for this daily is what time sink is now for current weekly. And again - paid Endeavor.
4. I can not solo Halls of Fabrication, and there is no group finder for it. And again - paid Endeavor.
5. Trial with a guildmate - I am not in a guild and never will be...

I play this game since 2014 and even some one like me would only do 2 out of 3 because the rest is way too elite & end-game. It excludes way too many players.

There is simply too much restrictions. They said that Endeavors is a bonus you get because you get them as you do "normal gameplay". Well, non of this is normal for an average player. Trials, trials with a guild, DLC dungoens and base game dungeons... this is not a normal gameplay for an average player.

Strong dislike for those changes.

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

How do you know this? How do you know there will still be reasonable daily endeavors when U39 drops?

jaws343

reazea wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Today's PTS endeavors:

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is undoable.
1. I can solo Blesed Crucible. But it takes some time.
2. I can not solo Moon Hunter keep. Besides it is not base game, so it is paid Endeavor.
3. I can clear Oblivion Portals, but again - time sink for this daily is what time sink is now for current weekly. And again - paid Endeavor.
4. I can not solo Halls of Fabrication, and there is no group finder for it. And again - paid Endeavor.
5. Trial with a guildmate - I am not in a guild and never will be...

I play this game since 2014 and even some one like me would only do 2 out of 3 because the rest is way too elite & end-game. It excludes way too many players.

There is simply too much restrictions. They said that Endeavors is a bonus you get because you get them as you do "normal gameplay". Well, non of this is normal for an average player. Trials, trials with a guild, DLC dungoens and base game dungeons... this is not a normal gameplay for an average player.

Strong dislike for those changes.

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

How do you know this? How do you know there will still be reasonable daily endeavors when U39 drops?

Because they are adding to the endeavor pool, not changing how the system works.

"We are introducing multiple new Endeavor types in Update 39, all of which may now show up in your daily and weekly Endeavor activities, offering you new ways to earn Seals of Endeavor."

"MAY SHOW UP", "NEW WAYS"

Nothing in that statement says: "We are replacing the entire endeavor system with these and only these."

Toxic_Hemlock

If this goes live...

RIP endeavors, and I won't even bother opening the page any longer to see what garbage is available. Even with the way they currently are the amount of time needed to get any of the good items is insane.

Best to just remove them, and if they think these can be accomplished through regular game play, I got a nice bridge to sell them. Going CHEAP at only 50 of the new endeavors...

See you next YEAR for the purchase!

Lumenn

jaws343 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Today's PTS endeavors:

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is undoable.
1. I can solo Blesed Crucible. But it takes some time.
2. I can not solo Moon Hunter keep. Besides it is not base game, so it is paid Endeavor.
3. I can clear Oblivion Portals, but again - time sink for this daily is what time sink is now for current weekly. And again - paid Endeavor.
4. I can not solo Halls of Fabrication, and there is no group finder for it. And again - paid Endeavor.
5. Trial with a guildmate - I am not in a guild and never will be...

I play this game since 2014 and even some one like me would only do 2 out of 3 because the rest is way too elite & end-game. It excludes way too many players.

There is simply too much restrictions. They said that Endeavors is a bonus you get because you get them as you do "normal gameplay". Well, non of this is normal for an average player. Trials, trials with a guild, DLC dungoens and base game dungeons... this is not a normal gameplay for an average player.

Strong dislike for those changes.

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

Out of curiosity, how are you so sure? [snip] I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious as to how you are so certain when to my knowledge we've heard zip from any official on the forums. However, if it's a feeling, or a guess, allow for the possibility of 5 specific trials a day for a week 😉

[edited for baiting]

jaws343

Lumenn wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Today's PTS endeavors:

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is undoable.
1. I can solo Blesed Crucible. But it takes some time.
2. I can not solo Moon Hunter keep. Besides it is not base game, so it is paid Endeavor.
3. I can clear Oblivion Portals, but again - time sink for this daily is what time sink is now for current weekly. And again - paid Endeavor.
4. I can not solo Halls of Fabrication, and there is no group finder for it. And again - paid Endeavor.
5. Trial with a guildmate - I am not in a guild and never will be...

I play this game since 2014 and even some one like me would only do 2 out of 3 because the rest is way too elite & end-game. It excludes way too many players.

There is simply too much restrictions. They said that Endeavors is a bonus you get because you get them as you do "normal gameplay". Well, non of this is normal for an average player. Trials, trials with a guild, DLC dungoens and base game dungeons... this is not a normal gameplay for an average player.

Strong dislike for those changes.

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

Out of curiosity, how are you so sure? [snip] I'm not being factitious, I'm genuinely curious as to how you are so certain when to my knowledge we've heard zip from any official on the forums. However, if it's a feeling, or a guess, allow for the possibility of 5 specific trials a day for a week 😉

I am reading the patch notes and not making wild leaps of logic.

The leaps of logic being made in this thread are almost no different than saying: "Well the daily endeavor today showed Blessed Crucible, so only Blessed Crucible will ever be the dungeon we have to do for an endeavor."

They stated that they are adding these to the pool of options. Not completely draining the pool and starting over.
[edited to remove quote]

Lumenn

jaws343 wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Today's PTS endeavors:

This is exactly what I was talking about. This is undoable.
1. I can solo Blesed Crucible. But it takes some time.
2. I can not solo Moon Hunter keep. Besides it is not base game, so it is paid Endeavor.
3. I can clear Oblivion Portals, but again - time sink for this daily is what time sink is now for current weekly. And again - paid Endeavor.
4. I can not solo Halls of Fabrication, and there is no group finder for it. And again - paid Endeavor.
5. Trial with a guildmate - I am not in a guild and never will be...

I play this game since 2014 and even some one like me would only do 2 out of 3 because the rest is way too elite & end-game. It excludes way too many players.

There is simply too much restrictions. They said that Endeavors is a bonus you get because you get them as you do "normal gameplay". Well, non of this is normal for an average player. Trials, trials with a guild, DLC dungoens and base game dungeons... this is not a normal gameplay for an average player.

Strong dislike for those changes.

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

Out of curiosity, how are you so sure? [snip] I'm not being factitious, I'm genuinely curious as to how you are so certain when to my knowledge we've heard zip from any official on the forums. However, if it's a feeling, or a guess, allow for the possibility of 5 specific trials a day for a week 😉

I am reading the patch notes and not making wild leaps of logic.

The leaps of logic being made in this thread are almost no different than saying: "Well the daily endeavor today showed Blessed Crucible, so only Blessed Crucible will ever be the dungeon we have to do for an endeavor."

They stated that they are adding these to the pool of options. Not completely draining the pool and starting over.

Ah, so it is a feeling, guess, "a leap of logic" you might say, that zos will implement something new and it be perfectly reasonable. Gotcha.

I hope you are correct. It still will not please everyone, but mistakes, especially after such silence, would not please many at all.

[edited to remove quote]

Lady_Galadhiel

StabbityDoom wrote: »

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

That's what we're worried about - that they WONT look like this. We've heard no confirmation of that. Dead silence, except for what we see on the PTS.

Because they probably don't know themselfs yet how the endeavors will look like.
It wouldn't surprise me to say the least.
Until we don't get any confirmation of how our future activities will look like after the update, we,a good portion of the community are rightly assuming the worst.

Tandor

jaws343 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

That's what we're worried about - that they WONT look like this. We've heard no confirmation of that. Dead silence, except for what we see on the PTS.

But there is zero indication that they won't look like this. They are ADDING to the endeavor activities. ADDING.

So far, the only endeavors showing on PTS are the new ones.

Simple, fairly not bombastic logic, says that the PTS, a place for testing new things, would be a good place to flood only the NEW endeavors to test them out before ADDING them into the overall pool.

And we know, with the overall pool of endeavors, almost never do Like endeavors show on the same day.

My example, is exactly what we will likely see on live. No need for nonsensical doomsaying over this.

I agree that the new Endeavours are likely to be added to the existing list, but assuming that ZOS don't increase the number of options then it means that to fit in the new ones all the older ones will appear less often (or in some cases perhaps be removed). That means it's highly likely that the number of days and weeks when you can't do the maximum 3 daily and 1 weekly endeavours will increase, with the result that whatever rewards you're interested in will take a lot longer to acquire. These factors together will reduce the incentive to bother with Endeavours in the first place.

BergisMacBride

jaws343 wrote: »

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

You might be right (I'd hope so), but until we've heard officially or see it when the patch drops we won't know.

Of course that's besides the point that these new ones we've seen are still more exclusionary and really aren't breaking any new ground, just recycling current ones into more restrictive requirements. So much for creativity.

Where's the ones for fishing I've seen asked about time and again on the forums? How about one to purchase x gold amount of goods from a trader?

These new ones are just meh at best, and completely awful at their worst.

Aka_

I don't think I put it past ZoS to really lean into whatever makes endeavors harder to obtain. It's an effective way to make certain groups of players feel discouraged enough to simply buy crowns for the items they would buy with endeavors.

Call me a pessimist, but that's the vibe I have constantly gotten from ZoS

Elsonso

starkerealm wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

FayJolyn wrote: »

What I find really dishonest is that during the Preview stream they made it sound like an actual improvement. The wording was vague enough and unspecific so none of us suspected a thing until we saw the actual changes on the PTS.

They sort of did the same thing for Account-wide Achievements. Perhaps this is an indication that they don't want to dive into details when they introduce something they know will not be popular. They mention it, sort of "in passing". If this is the case, we can expect them to go full turtle until the discontent dies down through fatigue or attrition.

We'll see if this is a trend for a pattern, or just happenstance.

Difference being that Account Wide Achievements could, legitimately, be seen as an improvement. I realize it's a point of contention for a lot of people, but in broad strokes, the idea that you can now complete your multi-step achievements across multiple characters did make some of those a lot more accessible for people who'd legitimately earned them, but hadn't done so on a single character.

The problem with AWA was that it meant players who were intentionally trying to complete the achievement multiple times across their entire account, were screwed over, but honestly, that's probably a pretty tiny number of players (and, yes, I was one of those people who got bitten by this change.)

This is just a massive middle finger from whoever worked on this.

I am sure that someone behind the curtain thinks this is a terrific idea and a proper implementation of the idea. A legitimate improvement, just not one for everyone. However, like AwA, I think that the reasons for this "improvement" are more than the visible implementation. We only see the implementation, not the reasons that ZOS cares about but does not share with us.

jaws343 wrote: »

But like, when this goes live, your daily endeavors are going to look something like this:

1. Complete Blessed Crucible
2. Pick 10 flowers
3. Use an Ultimate 4 times
4. Craft 5 Blacksmithing
5. Complete a Battleground

So, just skip the two that you don't want to do and do the other three.

I expect that these will be mixed in, but are "Blessed Crucible" and "10 flowers" really equivalent? No. They will pay out the same 10-15 Seals, though.

FayJolyn

Aka_ wrote: »

I don't think I put it past ZoS to really lean into whatever makes endeavors harder to obtain. It's an effective way to make certain groups of players feel discouraged enough to simply buy crowns for the items they would buy with endeavors.

Call me a pessimist, but that's the vibe I have constantly gotten from ZoS

Yeah, that is what concerns me too. The fact that they prefer to appeal to the whales instead of the large chunk of casual and solo players. (who I'm sure are larger in numbers than the whales.)

To be even more pessimistic. It's a sure sign of a MMO that is struggling. Together with the increased prizes in the crown store, the crate bundles with exclusive rewards. Lets be real it's all pointing in a certain direction. It's disheartening to see.

ZOS, you have a community that cares about your product. Don't lose sight of that in pursuit of short term profits. This change will not be good in the long run!

SilverBride

Being too specific and forced grouping will only discourage players from completing these endeavors. Nothing positive will come from it.

Fenris_Arainai

If this new form of endeavours replaced the old ones, it's going to be really hard to complete 3 every day day often. For many people outright impossible.

My only hope is they are putting all the new ones together for testing or something, and it'd be more mixed the the old ones, but these new are still very limiting and really a variation of two things: to X dungeon or do X trial. Plus ToT.