NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Fishing without any skill can get you as much as 10k per hour
If you get to 50th level, you can get 15k gold per hour just running dolmens and selling all the stuff you get from there. Farming raw mats nets you anywhere from 20 to 40k gold per hour.
Farming Crafting writs, if you optimize you can get up to 60-70k per hour.
You can barely sneeze in this game, and somebody will run to you asking to buy the beetle scuttle that flew from your nose xD.
Just don't bother with the stuff right now, get to know the game, and soon you will be getting gold at alarming rate.

Agenericname wrote: »

It comes up from time to time. Personally I do not like guild traders. They're not a design that friendly towards casual or infrequent players, or players who wish to buy/trade infrequently, but the argument against a global auction does have some substance.

I avoid them altogether now. I haven't been in guild with a trader in quite some time. I do the writs and it's more than enough to get by on.

Seriously, every time I read this kind of comment, I am at a loss. How can 10k gold sales requirement per week be not casual? You can't spend 30 minutes during a week farming (in the worst case)? Bah, if you have 11k gold, you can buy a stack of Raw Ancestor Silk and sell it for 10k gold, if you didn't have time to sell during the week. That's a 1k gold lose per WEEK. That's 3 simple quests done. Or 5 Ancestor silk nodes picked up. Or 2 chests with the right CP point. Or 8 mails from hirelings (you need to login 2 times during a week to get 8-10 mails). People playing MMO can't be anymore casual than that

You CAN be more casual than that. You can play the game and sell a few items once or twice a week without any dues at all or any lectures on why you'll go to hell for not buying raffle tickets, it's just we don't have that option in ESO.

I log in, do the writs on up to 6 characters, collect my gold, keep it all, and spend the rest of the time doing what I want.

Agenericname wrote: »

You CAN be more casual than that. You can play the game and sell a few items once or twice a week without any dues at all or any lectures on why you'll go to hell for not buying raffle tickets, it's just we don't have that option in ESO.

I log in, do the writs on up to 6 characters, collect my gold, keep it all, and spend the rest of the time doing what I want.

And why is it we don't have that option in ESO? I just described that option, you just play a game and sell a few items once or twice a week. Very few guilds require buying raffle tickets or donating. Most requirements are only for sales, which is the whole reason you got into a trading guild, right? You just need to pick a guild according to the amount of unnecessary stuff you generate while playing the game.

And IF you don't play it at all, you still have an option to just resell in 2 clicks, with minimum effort involved. Like, to keep you in a guild for a whole year, without you doing anything at all, you just need 60k gold for a span of a year (11k gold as a buffer, and 1k gold per week lost). That is 4 hours of the most casual farming available at 50th lvl. 4 hours per year.

Agenericname wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Fishing without any skill can get you as much as 10k per hour
If you get to 50th level, you can get 15k gold per hour just running dolmens and selling all the stuff you get from there. Farming raw mats nets you anywhere from 20 to 40k gold per hour.
Farming Crafting writs, if you optimize you can get up to 60-70k per hour.
You can barely sneeze in this game, and somebody will run to you asking to buy the beetle scuttle that flew from your nose xD.
Just don't bother with the stuff right now, get to know the game, and soon you will be getting gold at alarming rate.

Agenericname wrote: »

It comes up from time to time. Personally I do not like guild traders. They're not a design that friendly towards casual or infrequent players, or players who wish to buy/trade infrequently, but the argument against a global auction does have some substance.

I avoid them altogether now. I haven't been in guild with a trader in quite some time. I do the writs and it's more than enough to get by on.

Seriously, every time I read this kind of comment, I am at a loss. How can 10k gold sales requirement per week be not casual? You can't spend 30 minutes during a week farming (in the worst case)? Bah, if you have 11k gold, you can buy a stack of Raw Ancestor Silk and sell it for 10k gold, if you didn't have time to sell during the week. That's a 1k gold lose per WEEK. That's 3 simple quests done. Or 5 Ancestor silk nodes picked up. Or 2 chests with the right CP point. Or 8 mails from hirelings (you need to login 2 times during a week to get 8-10 mails). People playing MMO can't be anymore casual than that

You CAN be more casual than that. You can play the game and sell a few items once or twice a week without any dues at all or any lectures on why you'll go to hell for not buying raffle tickets, it's just we don't have that option in ESO.

I log in, do the writs on up to 6 characters, collect my gold, keep it all, and spend the rest of the time doing what I want.

I agree. I often go a week without farming for gold or making it a priority to sell items on the guild stores. Hell, some weeks I may not even log in at all. Such behavior is not unusual at all for players, especially those who only play casually.

One of the best things this system has is the chance of buying products at low costs in weak spots. I have found real bargains in Sentinel or Evermore. I like a lot doing those travels to buy things and then sell them in other places. It's way more immersive than the lazy AH where everything is done with one or two clicks.

You can get a lot of money playing Hlaalu merchant, buying cheap items and then selling them at higher prices in other locations, whether it is in a guild or in the zone chat and I don't understand why people woul like an AH system, where just a couple of guys control the prices.

The system is not perfect, I know. It should encourage a more cooperative trading system in which a guild that sells more products get a better reward than the one they get now. Maybe ZoS should try to develop a guild vendor system in which the guild gets some form of reward based on how it is doing it, such as a banker next to the guild vendor, or a kind of ambassador from another guild next to your vendor that offers the other guild products and share some of the profits for those sells.

Interesting, I didn't see any numbers yet as far as taxes go, or cost of the NPC rent for that matter. 20k gold a month doesn't seem too much to me though and could be worse I guess, especially if you have a nice spot for selling items. If that's the case one would probably do well by selling processed materials only, not to mention other valuable items.

I am not a big fan of this system, but I can see how some skill is required there just like with many other activities in this game. If there is not enough time to spend on gathering frequently purchased goods, it's probably nothing for you to be fair.

Comparing the wealth/status other players accumulate with your own is the problem here in my opinion. Just like in real life, people too often equate economical "survival" with much more than is actually necessary and this mentality gets dragged into every MMO game I have seen so far. It's kind of sad...

Run Horse Run

Agenericname wrote: »

Was there a point in misquoting me?

My apologies, I am not a fan of multilayered or otherwise lengthy quotes, so I often prune them. And this forum engine is not very suited for that, so mistakes sometimes occur when I try editing message in a small window.

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

Hi folks.

Saw this thread pop up.

I'm a total newb regarding these Guild Traders. In fact I had a difficult time figuring out where the "auction house" was. Heh.

In any case, can some one point me to some information on how this all works, if I want to buy and sell items.

Also which add-ons that someone mentioned are being used to help out with guild traders (as someone who mostly would be buying off them).

This FAQ covers pretty much all basics https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/378224/madlarks-guide-to-trading-pc

Qualanthar wrote: »

What are the arguments against? Every other MMORPG I've played uses some form of global auction house with some kind of cut rather than requiring players to contribute unevenly to its functioning.

If it is about cornering the market, I actually don't think this argument is valid. I mean, it is easier to corner the market with AH, but with low supply items it is as much easy with current trading system. And with high supply it is equally hard both here and with AH.

Now, the real problem is that it is much easier to program autotrader with AH. With AH you have a certain window layout with areas of interest which can be analyzed programmatically and decision made based on that information. Then a few scripts for buying items and reselling them 5-10% higher (you can create scripts that would interact with graphical interface just as users do which are hard to distinguish from the real person). And with AH you have an access to every item listed on the server, so you basically work only with AH window while trading.

There are multiple ways to counter that, but I doubt you would be happy if server calls were even slower than today, and your client was rigged for automation behavior detection, slowing your performance.

With ESO it is much harder to program a bot like that, because you need to move around and teleport and handle loading screens etc. I would say there is not much profit there because of the current Trader System compared to other ways of trading without automation. I mean in ESO thinking and applying market theories yield much more profit than just reselling items, while with AH, you can make huge profits without bothering to think.

And, well, you see... with AH making a program is the only way to have an interesting trading experience after years of trading. With ESO Trading System I don't need to make my trading more interesting by implementing some software solutions beyond existing addons

Jeremy wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Making money in this game is incredibly easy for anyone who puts a little bit of time into finding out how. There are enough guides and discussions about this.

The easiest way for anyone who wants to have a permanent trading guild, but the guild you found wants Xk sales a week you can easily enough just buy an something for that price and sell it again. Like buy a perfect roe and sell it again. Then you have to float around 10k to stay in your guild which really isn't much money in this game.

3.5% of your sales is what the guild in the end gets as taxes which is 175 gold if you sell for 5k. Asking for 5k sales is really not unreasonable or greedy on their part.

Having to pay "dues" to join a video game guild is about as unreasonable as it gets if you ask me. So any system that would encourage such a silly practice isn't one I would ever support.

So...join guilds that don't require dues? Not hard to find. I'm currently in 4 guilds. None of them require any dues; you do have to log in at least once a week, that is mandatory. Even that can be changed for sufficient reason, like deployment/illness/vacation away from your pc by telling the guildmaster.

I pick up mats while running around doing quests, mages' daily, and fighter's daily. I grin every time I find a node that someone left "trash" behind in, you know, the crawlers, worms, mundane runes, bast, etc? Yes, I pick that stuff up. From doing the normal daily writs on ONE crafter, having hirelings I bother to collect the deliveries regularly from on ONE crafter, deconning the loot from doing the quests and rewards I found I had quite a bit of mats piled up. So, I decided to sell some stuff on my one no dues primarily trading guild guild store; trader in Auridon. Ended up with 65k gold. Total mandatory dues the guild demanded-- 0 gold.

I don't really see the current system encourages mandatory dues for membership. It depends on the guild, the guildmaster, and the guild members.

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Because that post was in reference to XB1 and PS4 players - who do not have access to addons and therefore don't have the same advantages PC players have when it comes to using the guild trader system.

I specifically added that there is no cross-platform competition. Should I elaborate more, and add there is no cross-platform market competition?

I guess, I am done with this conversation, because it renders itself unproductive

In my view it's nothing to do with cross-platform competition, as you say there isn't any. Rather, it's to do with the fact that the trading system relies heavily on the use of addons which are denied to console players. By and large the players who defend the present system and want to retain it are PC players using those addons, and it's the debate between them and console players that is conducted on an uneven playing field. I believe that a basic core function in the game should be universally structured for all players regardless of their platform or server, but the trading system is not.

I had an experience with auction house in other MMO. The most terrible thing I've ever seen. Hell no to auction house in ESO.

Qualanthar wrote: »

But now my trading guild has said they want 5000 gold per week. I get why - cause if guilds have to bid for a spot to sell, that takes gold. But it is also stupid. I haven't made 5000 gold from sales in the entire four months I've been playing so far. It's not economically feasible to spend 20,000 gold a month in order to sell something for between 20 and 50 each day.

You're doing something wrong. I make 50-100K per day from my five guild stores with barely an effort. I know people who make many times that.

You don't say what level you're at. But it's hard to make gold before CP160. After that, between crafting, farming and selling gear you don't need, you should be able to do just fine paying 5K a week to have a storefront.

Also, you need to learn the value of things, and price them appropriately. Apple-bobbing components were selling for 5-10K during the Witches Festival. If you sold them for a few hundred, you gave them away. Some recipes and motifs sell for upward of 100K. Don't blindly list them for 100g.

MornaBaine wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Qualanthar wrote: »

Is this something that has ever been discussed?

Nope. 4.5 years in, I've literally never seen anyone discuss this topic.



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231692/guild-trader-vs-auction-house-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444791/trading-guilds-versus-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392618/can-anyone-clarify-the-auction-houses
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316214/guild-traders-and-bidding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415235/a-central-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323006/global-auction-house-yes-or-no
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349242/guild-trader-question
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/260318/auction-house-guild-trader-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330717/why-cant-we-get-a-public-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401309/instead-of-a-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323605/we-need-a-true-auction-house-with-auction-only-and-no-buyout
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/221328/guild-traders-is-a-corrupt-and-invalid-system-we-need-a-mega-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343187/an-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411629/central-guild-trader-for-all-in-one-place-or-a-central-market
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193940/how-does-an-economy-develop-around-this-guild-trading-system
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430814/annoying-idiosyncrasy-2-the-whole-guild-store-thing
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305352/guild-traders-a-thoroughly-miserable-experience
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265335/auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384555/auction-house-yay-or-nay
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376260/another-auction-house-thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197013/auctions-houses-please-eso
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406085/why-auction-house-is-bad
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237115/is-there-really-no-auction-house

That's just the first 2 pages of Google results for "eso guild trader auction house". There are about 130,000 more.

Which should darned well show the will of the players. ZOS needs to get hip.

Not at all as many of the posts in those threads are people saying they don't want one.

And the threads are almost always greater by someone new ish to the game, coming from a game that has an AH, and wanting similar without understanding the ESO system or how to work with it.