Trading Guilds versus Auction House

Jeremy

pieratsos wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Making money in this game is incredibly easy for anyone who puts a little bit of time into finding out how. There are enough guides and discussions about this.

The easiest way for anyone who wants to have a permanent trading guild, but the guild you found wants Xk sales a week you can easily enough just buy an something for that price and sell it again. Like buy a perfect roe and sell it again. Then you have to float around 10k to stay in your guild which really isn't much money in this game.

3.5% of your sales is what the guild in the end gets as taxes which is 175 gold if you sell for 5k. Asking for 5k sales is really not unreasonable or greedy on their part.

Having to pay "dues" to join a video game guild is about as unreasonable as it gets if you ask me. So any system that would encourage such a silly practice isn't one I would ever support.

It's not real money genius.

I never said it was real money, genius.

If you want to debate something I posted, fine. But at least make it about something I actually did post. And I think that's a reasonable request.

pieratsos

Jeremy wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Making money in this game is incredibly easy for anyone who puts a little bit of time into finding out how. There are enough guides and discussions about this.

The easiest way for anyone who wants to have a permanent trading guild, but the guild you found wants Xk sales a week you can easily enough just buy an something for that price and sell it again. Like buy a perfect roe and sell it again. Then you have to float around 10k to stay in your guild which really isn't much money in this game.

3.5% of your sales is what the guild in the end gets as taxes which is 175 gold if you sell for 5k. Asking for 5k sales is really not unreasonable or greedy on their part.

Having to pay "dues" to join a video game guild is about as unreasonable as it gets if you ask me. So any system that would encourage such a silly practice isn't one I would ever support.

It's not real money genius.

I never said it was real money, genius.

If you want to debate something I posted, fine. But at least make it about something I actually did post. And I think that's a reasonable request.

I did debate something that you actually posted. You just conveniently left it behind. Feel free to go back and read it again.

Jeremy

pieratsos wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Making money in this game is incredibly easy for anyone who puts a little bit of time into finding out how. There are enough guides and discussions about this.

The easiest way for anyone who wants to have a permanent trading guild, but the guild you found wants Xk sales a week you can easily enough just buy an something for that price and sell it again. Like buy a perfect roe and sell it again. Then you have to float around 10k to stay in your guild which really isn't much money in this game.

3.5% of your sales is what the guild in the end gets as taxes which is 175 gold if you sell for 5k. Asking for 5k sales is really not unreasonable or greedy on their part.

Having to pay "dues" to join a video game guild is about as unreasonable as it gets if you ask me. So any system that would encourage such a silly practice isn't one I would ever support.

It's not real money genius.

I never said it was real money, genius.

If you want to debate something I posted, fine. But at least make it about something I actually did post. And I think that's a reasonable request.

I did debate something that you actually posted. You just conveniently left it behind. Feel free to go back and read it again.

No. I just stopped reading your ridiculous comment after the first sentence where you falsely implied I thought it was real money.

If you want me to read the entirety of your comments, then don't start them off with false characterizations. Otherwise, I'm going to lose interests in them very quick. Because I never said or even implied that guilds required real money as dues. That's would be dumb and I never said or hinted at any such thing.

pieratsos

Tandor wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

As I’ve said before a small auction house in each major city where ppl could list 5 items per week would be ok. Taking away guild traders would destroy the game. 90% of guilds in eso are guilds because of traders, take them away and you lose that and most likely lose a big bumber of players. I’m not a big fan of the guild trader system but it does make guilds more meaningful. They could put the small auction house in with limited listings for ppl that don’t want to join guilds or don’t want to pay dues. Also if you’re in a guild that charges 5k dues they should have a good trader and if you’re only selling a few thing for 100g that’s on you. Either sell to make gold or find a no dues guild that has a low end trader. Those are the ones that I find best to sell recipes and other cheap items.

On the contrary, it makes most of them nothing more than anonymous brokers for their members' goods, and it's the reason this game allows multiple guild membership to the detriment of the real social, adventuring and PvP guilds. Remove guilds from the trading system and you can revert to the traditional single guild membership system and the enhanced loyalty, dedication, and sense of community that it brings to other MMOs.

Trade guilds are literally the most active social guilds in the game filled with all types of players doing every type of content.

pieratsos

Mr_Walker wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Taking away guild traders would destroy the game. 90% of guilds in eso are guilds because of traders, take them away and you lose that and most likely lose a big bumber of players.

So you'd lose people who don't actually play the game but show up just to flip items. No great loss there.

You do realize that the players in trading guilds don't just run around buying and selling stuff and that the vast majority of the time they are actually playing the game right?

Cpt_Teemo

pieratsos wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Taking away guild traders would destroy the game. 90% of guilds in eso are guilds because of traders, take them away and you lose that and most likely lose a big bumber of players.

So you'd lose people who don't actually play the game but show up just to flip items. No great loss there.

You do realize that the players in trading guilds don't just run around buying and selling stuff and that the vast majority of the time they are actually playing the game right?

Actually that's not true, I've had numerous amounts of complaints how bad time is spent trying to find stuff over and over again using this system in some of the most top end trading guilds on NA.

pieratsos

Jeremy wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Making money in this game is incredibly easy for anyone who puts a little bit of time into finding out how. There are enough guides and discussions about this.

The easiest way for anyone who wants to have a permanent trading guild, but the guild you found wants Xk sales a week you can easily enough just buy an something for that price and sell it again. Like buy a perfect roe and sell it again. Then you have to float around 10k to stay in your guild which really isn't much money in this game.

3.5% of your sales is what the guild in the end gets as taxes which is 175 gold if you sell for 5k. Asking for 5k sales is really not unreasonable or greedy on their part.

Having to pay "dues" to join a video game guild is about as unreasonable as it gets if you ask me. So any system that would encourage such a silly practice isn't one I would ever support.

It's not real money genius.

I never said it was real money, genius.

If you want to debate something I posted, fine. But at least make it about something I actually did post. And I think that's a reasonable request.

I did debate something that you actually posted. You just conveniently left it behind. Feel free to go back and read it again.

No. I just stopped reading your ridiculous comment after the first sentence where you falsely implied I thought it was real money.

If you want me to read the entirety of your comments, then don't start them off with false characterizations. Otherwise, I'm going to lose interests in them very quick. Because I never said or even implied that guilds required real money as dues. That's would be dumb and I never said or hinted at any such thing.

Except I didnt imply that you literally thought it was real money. It was a figure of speech or whatever u want to call it as a reply to ur absurd statement that u actually think that it's unreasonable for a game to ask in game currency to participate in an in game activity. And I also gave you an analogy like buying a weapon for in game currency.

The rest of the post was also a reply to multiple arguments u made throughout the thread and even gave u a solution to the problem of keeping ur place in guilds. Even the most demanding guilds.

You chose to ignore everything I said for whatever reason good for you. But don't tell me that I didn't debate ur post. If anything u are the one who didn't debate my post.

pieratsos

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Taking away guild traders would destroy the game. 90% of guilds in eso are guilds because of traders, take them away and you lose that and most likely lose a big bumber of players.

So you'd lose people who don't actually play the game but show up just to flip items. No great loss there.

You do realize that the players in trading guilds don't just run around buying and selling stuff and that the vast majority of the time they are actually playing the game right?

Actually that's not true, I've had numerous amounts of complaints how bad time is spent trying to find stuff over and over again using this system in some of the most top end trading guilds on NA.

By players who do not fully understand the trading system in general. Does it need time to understand how it works and the best ways to make gold? Yes it does. Its a process just like other activities in game.

But when u actually learn how to do it, it doesn't take time at all. You can make millions by spending no more than a few hours every week. Hell, you can make millions by actually playing the game. No need to just run around from trader to trader trying to figure out how to flip things fast.

jainiadral

Grimm13 wrote: »

It has been stated repeatedly that ZOS does not want a AH as they would encourage trade to be social and keep prices more varied by region. Originally the faction areas were locked so Trade in one faction would be vastly different than those of another faction.One Tamriel changed trading greatly as all traders are available to any faction.

The system as it is does not encourage varied pricing by region either as the API is made available that allows for the distribution of the price listings. Boy is this statement setting me up for some hate but it is a fact. If they want no semblance of a AH then they would shut off the API. Seeing as they have not, they are ok with a limited AH concept.

If the UI for the Trader was updated with search, it could be made to allow a character to search Traders in their Faction zone only. This would only be in the five original zones for the Faction and would keep these zones as desirable. It adds back in the Faction aspect to the Guilds that was lost in One Tamriel.
I would suggest that buying through a Faction search would have a additional 5% added to the price that the game takes. Placing a requirement that you have to travel to the zone for pick up would keep the Travel experience so many say that ZOS wants to preserve. A pickup NPC in each zone would be best as it would be an extension of the mail delivery, which the game uses for sales so it's a matter of adding in the "PO Box" delivery.

You know, much as I hate the idea of regional pricing, this would actually be a huge QOL boost. Imagine finding things without having to waypoint all over Tamriel because information is out of date with what few resources we have... And not having to exit the game to find things (talk about immersion shattering!). Sounds like bliss to me the next time I'm trying to find Perfect Roe or anything else for a writ

This, along with the standard requests you see from console players for inbuilt search functions would make the whole trading experience a lot easier to deal with. Same with centrally locating traders like Armatesz suggested.

Honestly, with add-ons, selling isn't too bad, but buying is a hideous chore. If the process could be streamlined, I'd be a lot happier to buy things. Maybe others would too. Actual trade happening is what makes a system "robust." As it is, I avoid it as much as possible.

AzraelKrieg

GLP323b14_ESO wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Jeeves, the horse is still moving

Thanks Jeeves.

That's a camel.

That may be so but there was still movement and needed to have it beaten out of it.

radiostar

Why not go back to the original implementation. Guilds over 50 members have internal stores for members only. Any guilds holding keeps in Cyro (regardless of number of membership) gets to sell outside their guild to the public.

Tandor

radiostar wrote: »

Why not go back to the original implementation. Guilds over 50 members have internal stores for members only. Any guilds holding keeps in Cyro (regardless of number of membership) gets to sell outside their guild to the public.

So a core part of any MMO, namely the trading system, is not only dependent on guild membership, a weekly lottery, and for optimum effectiveness external addons, but is also subject to participation in PvP? No thanks. In what conceivable way would that be an improvement?

NoTimeToWait

Armatesz wrote: »

I've played over 40 mmos in my life, personal experience says the guild trader system eso has is flawed. But this is not necessarily a point of selling but of both selling and buying. There is no easy way to navigate all the guild traders that are all over the place... and I mean literally all over the place. It should not take a full day to look at every single guild trader for something. No wonder why so many people literally say in zone chat looking for so and so item, it can be far easier than looking through a guild trader. As much as there should be is a centralized one in each zone addressed for each zone, still have the same requirements of guild traders putting up a bid for them for slots in said ones.

I don't quite understand, what is out there that is so rare and you would want it so badly, that you would navigate guild traders for a full day.

The only thing that comes to my mind are furnishing plans, and these were intentionally made that way, which is not quite the problem of current trading system.

There is not much merit in looking for something rare in other parts of the world except trading capital, where many rare items make their way eventually (yes, overpriced). So, it's quite your own choice to spend all day "looking for something" that might not be there.

From my own experience, I had to search all the guild traders only once, and I didn't find what I was looking for (a furnishing plan). I got the idea, that it is counterproductive to do such such a tedious search, and never repeated my mistake again.

I enjoy this system because it pretty much emulates early RL trading systems. While AH is completely foreign body, which is quite alien to the ways trading society evolved to this point. And the way I say "alien" I mean the way information travels. There is no point in history of trading except until very recently, when information from around the world was available at single place and was being updated regularly on the first notice

AH is quite interrupting thing for me. There are no means in in-game world for information to travel and be shared at such high speeds, and magic doesn't count, because I have yet to find a game where there is magic that manipulates information and the ways it is processed (yes, there are systems with few spells, like talking to animals, or magical mapping and search etc, but these spells were never considered as an information manipulation sort of magic)

Tandor wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Why not go back to the original implementation. Guilds over 50 members have internal stores for members only. Any guilds holding keeps in Cyro (regardless of number of membership) gets to sell outside their guild to the public.

So a core part of any MMO, namely the trading system, is not only dependent on guild membership, a weekly lottery, and for optimum effectiveness external addons, but is also subject to participation in PvP? No thanks. In what conceivable way would that be an improvement?

At least, it would be quite a good incentive to participate in PVP. I always thought that ZOS should add some in-game mechanic that would benefit from resources gained in Cyro

Mayrael

LiquidPony wrote: »

Qualanthar wrote: »

Is this something that has ever been discussed?

Nope. 4.5 years in, I've literally never seen anyone discuss this topic.



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231692/guild-trader-vs-auction-house-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444791/trading-guilds-versus-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392618/can-anyone-clarify-the-auction-houses
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316214/guild-traders-and-bidding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415235/a-central-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323006/global-auction-house-yes-or-no
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349242/guild-trader-question
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/260318/auction-house-guild-trader-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330717/why-cant-we-get-a-public-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401309/instead-of-a-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323605/we-need-a-true-auction-house-with-auction-only-and-no-buyout
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/221328/guild-traders-is-a-corrupt-and-invalid-system-we-need-a-mega-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343187/an-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411629/central-guild-trader-for-all-in-one-place-or-a-central-market
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193940/how-does-an-economy-develop-around-this-guild-trading-system
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430814/annoying-idiosyncrasy-2-the-whole-guild-store-thing
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305352/guild-traders-a-thoroughly-miserable-experience
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265335/auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384555/auction-house-yay-or-nay
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376260/another-auction-house-thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197013/auctions-houses-please-eso
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406085/why-auction-house-is-bad
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237115/is-there-really-no-auction-house

That's just the first 2 pages of Google results for "eso guild trader auction house". There are about 130,000 more.

Haha that gif I know it from somewhere :P

JKorr

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

I've played over 40 mmos in my life, personal experience says the guild trader system eso has is flawed. But this is not necessarily a point of selling but of both selling and buying. There is no easy way to navigate all the guild traders that are all over the place... and I mean literally all over the place. It should not take a full day to look at every single guild trader for something. No wonder why so many people literally say in zone chat looking for so and so item, it can be far easier than looking through a guild trader. As much as there should be is a centralized one in each zone addressed for each zone, still have the same requirements of guild traders putting up a bid for them for slots in said ones.

I don't quite understand, what is out there that is so rare and you would want it so badly, that you would navigate guild traders for a full day.

The only thing that comes to my mind are furnishing plans, and these were intentionally made that way, which is not quite the problem of current trading system.

There is not much merit in looking for something rare in other parts of the world except trading capital, where many rare items make their way eventually (yes, overpriced). So, it's quite your own choice to spend all day "looking for something" that might not be there.

From my own experience, I had to search all the guild traders only once, and I didn't find what I was looking for (a furnishing plan). I got the idea, that it is counterproductive to do such such a tedious search, and never repeated my mistake again.

I enjoy this system because it pretty much emulates early RL trading systems. While AH is completely foreign body, which is quite alien to the ways trading society evolved to this point. And the way I say "alien" I mean the way information travels. There is no point in history of trading except until very recently, when information from around the world was available at single place and was being updated regularly on the first notice

AH is quite interrupting thing for me. There are no means in in-game world for information to travel and be shared at such high speeds, and magic doesn't count, because I have yet to find a game where there is magic that manipulates information and the ways it is processed (yes, there are systems with few spells, like talking to animals, or magical mapping and search etc, but these spells were never considered as an information manipulation sort of magic)

Tandor wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Why not go back to the original implementation. Guilds over 50 members have internal stores for members only. Any guilds holding keeps in Cyro (regardless of number of membership) gets to sell outside their guild to the public.

So a core part of any MMO, namely the trading system, is not only dependent on guild membership, a weekly lottery, and for optimum effectiveness external addons, but is also subject to participation in PvP? No thanks. In what conceivable way would that be an improvement?

At least, it would be quite a good incentive to participate in PVP. I always thought that ZOS should add some in-game mechanic that would benefit from resources gained in Cyro

That last thing would be a good incentive for me to drop the game. I might not be the only one who doesn't enjoy pvp. If there hadn't been crafting stations in IC for sets guildmates asked for I would have never bothered to set foot in Cyrodiil. Now with the attunable stations, I don't have to go for any reason. When the game was originally announced and it was clear it would be pvpvp, I paid no attention to it for months. I was still on the fence when they said a pve campaign would be included. I didn't decide I would try the beta until it was clear I didn't have to do pvp at all. Forcing me to do that if I want to be able to trade? No thanks.

Defilted

There is nothing wrong with the guild trader system. Works completely fine. Auction House is not needed. If some weekend only players have to spam zone to sell a few things because they will not get into a guild then so be it.

No auction house.

Kuramas9tails

LiquidPony wrote: »

Qualanthar wrote: »

Is this something that has ever been discussed?

Nope. 4.5 years in, I've literally never seen anyone discuss this topic.



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231692/guild-trader-vs-auction-house-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444791/trading-guilds-versus-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392618/can-anyone-clarify-the-auction-houses
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316214/guild-traders-and-bidding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415235/a-central-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323006/global-auction-house-yes-or-no
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349242/guild-trader-question
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/260318/auction-house-guild-trader-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330717/why-cant-we-get-a-public-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401309/instead-of-a-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323605/we-need-a-true-auction-house-with-auction-only-and-no-buyout
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/221328/guild-traders-is-a-corrupt-and-invalid-system-we-need-a-mega-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343187/an-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411629/central-guild-trader-for-all-in-one-place-or-a-central-market
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193940/how-does-an-economy-develop-around-this-guild-trading-system
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430814/annoying-idiosyncrasy-2-the-whole-guild-store-thing
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305352/guild-traders-a-thoroughly-miserable-experience
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265335/auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384555/auction-house-yay-or-nay
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376260/another-auction-house-thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197013/auctions-houses-please-eso
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406085/why-auction-house-is-bad
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237115/is-there-really-no-auction-house

That's just the first 2 pages of Google results for "eso guild trader auction house". There are about 130,000 more.

One would have thought that ZOS would have taken this as a hint.....

Elsonso

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Qualanthar wrote: »

Is this something that has ever been discussed?

Nope. 4.5 years in, I've literally never seen anyone discuss this topic.



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231692/guild-trader-vs-auction-house-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444791/trading-guilds-versus-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392618/can-anyone-clarify-the-auction-houses
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316214/guild-traders-and-bidding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415235/a-central-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323006/global-auction-house-yes-or-no
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349242/guild-trader-question
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/260318/auction-house-guild-trader-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330717/why-cant-we-get-a-public-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401309/instead-of-a-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323605/we-need-a-true-auction-house-with-auction-only-and-no-buyout
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/221328/guild-traders-is-a-corrupt-and-invalid-system-we-need-a-mega-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343187/an-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411629/central-guild-trader-for-all-in-one-place-or-a-central-market
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193940/how-does-an-economy-develop-around-this-guild-trading-system
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430814/annoying-idiosyncrasy-2-the-whole-guild-store-thing
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305352/guild-traders-a-thoroughly-miserable-experience
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265335/auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384555/auction-house-yay-or-nay
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376260/another-auction-house-thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197013/auctions-houses-please-eso
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406085/why-auction-house-is-bad
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237115/is-there-really-no-auction-house

That's just the first 2 pages of Google results for "eso guild trader auction house". There are about 130,000 more.

One would have thought that ZOS would have taken this as a hint.....

They did take note of the interest and came out with a definitive statement basically saying, "NO". My feeling is that the players need to move on from this to other things, like Cyrodiil performance.

Kesef

Defilted wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the guild trader system. Works completely fine. Auction House is not needed. If some weekend only players have to spam zone to sell a few things because they will not get into a guild then so be it.

No auction house.

I agree 100%. It gives ESO its own "flavor," and I enjoy the feel of not just having a single AH with everything from everywhere available. Just as boring as it is with almost every other MMO. Someone mentioned it taking away from adventure and social guilds. If anything, these bring players together more than many other types of guild. Their multi-guild system also allow you to keep them, along with your trading guild(s).

Is it perfect? No. Do I wish sometimes that it was a universal AH? Most certainly do. I still would not change it.

If you guys want to rage about an AH system that is not linked, go check out Albion Online. While there are no guild requirements, you actually have to manually travel from place-to-place (/GASP!).
(Note: I also enjoy the different system Albion Online has to offer, and you really should not check out the game if you have complaints about ESO's trading system. It is not a game for people who want things quick-and-easy).

AlnilamE

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Armatesz wrote: »

I've played over 40 mmos in my life, personal experience says the guild trader system eso has is flawed. But this is not necessarily a point of selling but of both selling and buying. There is no easy way to navigate all the guild traders that are all over the place... and I mean literally all over the place. It should not take a full day to look at every single guild trader for something. No wonder why so many people literally say in zone chat looking for so and so item, it can be far easier than looking through a guild trader. As much as there should be is a centralized one in each zone addressed for each zone, still have the same requirements of guild traders putting up a bid for them for slots in said ones.

I don't quite understand, what is out there that is so rare and you would want it so badly, that you would navigate guild traders for a full day.

The only thing that comes to my mind are furnishing plans, and these were intentionally made that way, which is not quite the problem of current trading system.

There is not much merit in looking for something rare in other parts of the world except trading capital, where many rare items make their way eventually (yes, overpriced). So, it's quite your own choice to spend all day "looking for something" that might not be there.

From my own experience, I had to search all the guild traders only once, and I didn't find what I was looking for (a furnishing plan). I got the idea, that it is counterproductive to do such such a tedious search, and never repeated my mistake again.

I enjoy this system because it pretty much emulates early RL trading systems. While AH is completely foreign body, which is quite alien to the ways trading society evolved to this point. And the way I say "alien" I mean the way information travels. There is no point in history of trading except until very recently, when information from around the world was available at single place and was being updated regularly on the first notice

AH is quite interrupting thing for me. There are no means in in-game world for information to travel and be shared at such high speeds, and magic doesn't count, because I have yet to find a game where there is magic that manipulates information and the ways it is processed (yes, there are systems with few spells, like talking to animals, or magical mapping and search etc, but these spells were never considered as an information manipulation sort of magic)

Tandor wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Why not go back to the original implementation. Guilds over 50 members have internal stores for members only. Any guilds holding keeps in Cyro (regardless of number of membership) gets to sell outside their guild to the public.

So a core part of any MMO, namely the trading system, is not only dependent on guild membership, a weekly lottery, and for optimum effectiveness external addons, but is also subject to participation in PvP? No thanks. In what conceivable way would that be an improvement?

At least, it would be quite a good incentive to participate in PVP. I always thought that ZOS should add some in-game mechanic that would benefit from resources gained in Cyro

I agree. I play games with Auction Houses and it's such an impersonal thing, you might as well just have NPCs buy everything and randomly list items (à la Golden Vendor). With the guild traders, every one is its own store, not the same thing N times over the entire world.

Though I do wonder if the people thinking that eBay or Amazon are the end-all, be-all of RL Trading have ever tried to find something that was just discontinued without their knowledge and you still find it listed in several websites but it does not actually exist. I went through that when we were buying a house and I wanted to get a cabinet case for our microwave. I looked it up, got the item number, searched for it and found it in several spots. 3 orders later (all cancelled within a few days) and a call to the manufacturer and no case. It's still sitting in the hole in the cupboard because the thing the internet told me was widely available didn't actually exist anywhere.

nerfworthy

I actually really like the guild trader system. It is fun to go around and find the good deals that may be tucked away in some obscure corner of Tamriel. You just don't get that with a universal AH.

hellhound223

nerfworthy wrote: »

I actually really like the guild trader system. It is fun to go around and find the good deals that may be tucked away in some obscure corner of Tamriel. You just don't get that with a universal AH.

I agree, to an extent. Last night at a small, out-of-the-way trader, I found one motif page selling for 1/8 of its typical price, as well as several others that were selling for below the current market rate. It was very satisfying. That said, I do find the trader system works best for me when I'm not looking for anything in particular, but am just browsing at my leisure. If I'm looking for a good price on something in particular, the search abruptly becomes inordinately stressful. And that's on PC, with the add-ons to make the clunky UI more palatable!

notimetocare

Beardimus wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Qualanthar wrote: »

Is this something that has ever been discussed?

Nope. 4.5 years in, I've literally never seen anyone discuss this topic.



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231692/guild-trader-vs-auction-house-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444791/trading-guilds-versus-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392618/can-anyone-clarify-the-auction-houses
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316214/guild-traders-and-bidding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415235/a-central-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323006/global-auction-house-yes-or-no
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349242/guild-trader-question
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/260318/auction-house-guild-trader-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330717/why-cant-we-get-a-public-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401309/instead-of-a-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323605/we-need-a-true-auction-house-with-auction-only-and-no-buyout
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/221328/guild-traders-is-a-corrupt-and-invalid-system-we-need-a-mega-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343187/an-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411629/central-guild-trader-for-all-in-one-place-or-a-central-market
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193940/how-does-an-economy-develop-around-this-guild-trading-system
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430814/annoying-idiosyncrasy-2-the-whole-guild-store-thing
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305352/guild-traders-a-thoroughly-miserable-experience
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265335/auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384555/auction-house-yay-or-nay
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376260/another-auction-house-thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197013/auctions-houses-please-eso
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406085/why-auction-house-is-bad
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237115/is-there-really-no-auction-house

That's just the first 2 pages of Google results for "eso guild trader auction house". There are about 130,000 more.

Which should darned well show the will of the players. ZOS needs to get hip.

Not at all as many of the posts in those threads are people saying they don't want one.

And the threads are almost always greater by someone new ish to the game, coming from a game that has an AH, and wanting similar without understanding the ESO system or how to work with it.

This exactly. Doing a google.search of the topic and then claiming it is all in favor of an AH is an infantile argument. I did more in 3 years with guild traders than 13 years of WoW AH (as well as swtor/rift and a few other smaller games) because you can always get an edge in because price fixing is limited to 30 posts per guild instead of 50 pages of single tempering alloy from 1 dude

idk

jainiadral wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

Vandellia wrote: »

To be totally honest here this is all a moot argument its not going to happen and personally i dont think it will happen for a reason none of you have listed if you think about guild banks whats the main issue with them ? i know that money deposited goes missing from time to time it goes into the great bit bucket in the sky and requires intervention . okay now that being said a region wide ah or server wide ah would be a nightmare and would induce massive lag that would more then likely make the game unplayable as currently configured i shudder to think about the lag a ah would cause .

I firmly believe the main reason for the current system is due to technical infrastructure limitations as much as any reasons put forth by players, as well as the poor design eats up a lot of player time, which is very clearly a key feature of ESO .

Just trying to get search results and / or buy something at a single store can lag out - if everything were sold through a common server wide system, the game would probably crash.

And while I'd love to have a single marketplace (mostly when buying as trying to locate items even with PC add-ons and the TTC site is a giant waste of time), they could make what we have much better with just a few basic improvements to the UI.

The biggest improvement would be to add a search function that includes use of text / keywords and searches everything without having to know ever single sub category, that and better / user defined filters.

Which is kind of odd, considering GW2 is two years older and manages to have an auction house that links two continent-separated megaservers together and updates in real time. Makes me wonder what kind of kludgy duct-taped solution the ESO folks are running. I also wonder if having something centralized might use fewer resources than running eleventy-trillion-but-not-yet-enough guild traders' databases simultaneously.

I'd take having a real UI-integrated search as a massive improvement, honestly. Awesome Guild Store gets bogged down constantly and category searches almost never seem to work right. And that's the "good" part of running the game on PC. I'd shoot myself if I had to deal with console players' limitations. You guys have my sympathies!

Devs' vision or not, the system stinks. The more I interact with it, the more frustrated I become. Trying to buy anything is a massive chore that involves exiting the game for TTC, then a prayer as I hop onto my sorc who has all the cities unlocked. Then another as I go from trader to trader, realizing that someone purchased the freshly-posted TTC item just a minute before I loaded in

Like the grind that's getting added into every event, it's one of the things that's beginning to chip away at my will to log in.

Really good speculation. However, it is rather irrelevant what GW2 has. Many that play here choose to not play GW2.

Beyond that, we have what we have here for a trading system. Devs clearly stated they wanted a guild based trading system and they have shown no signs that is it not living up to their expectations. Clearly a great many active players like it as it has clearly created a robust economy.

Like it or not it is not changing anytime soon.

"Robust" is interesting choice of words, considering how the system completely obscures real data from its participants. That's only in ZoS' hands. People might think or feel that it's robust, but that's only an impression based on next-to-no empirical data.

I'm pretty darn sure we're not getting anything GW2 style in this game, which is a big shame. I just find it interesting that an older game has a far more efficient and sophisticated infrastructure. The technology was there when ESO was created to have a decent-running system, and yet ZoS chose this.

I'm also sure that nothing will be changing. However, if the devs do read this thread or any other regarding the trading system, I'm going to register my opinion that it stinks. They can take that opinion or leave it as they choose, which they probably will

That said, I don't particularly care one way or the other that some players like the system. They're free to comment accordingly. That won't change my thoughts one way or the other.

First of all, you really need to read what you quote before you reply. You would understand your comment about GW2 is irrelevant. Being you are here in these forums I am pretty darn sure GW2 is not the game you prefer to play. If I have this wrong them I suggest you go enjoy that game.

Regardless, if you want to stay in ESO I suggest you get used to how the economy is here because it is not going to change because Zos is clearly pleased with the guild traders and continues to add to it, not take away.

I read exactly what you said. And I disagree with it. Vehemently. Theoretical auction house design is exactly what I was talking about from the get-go. Most games of an older vintage than ESO have vastly superior systems to the horrible one ZoS has implemented, including GW2, which has the best designed system I've encountered to date. So it's 100% relevant to what I've been talking about.

You're just telling me to suck it up and shut up because you and some unnamed sector of the ESO population, along with the devs, love it to bits. That has absolutely zero to do with what I was saying-- so if there's anyone speaking irrelevancy, it's not me.

You, however, are welcome to your opinion. As am I.

So long as I'm playing and I want to make any gold in the game, I do have to suck it up. But these forums are places to state your objections, and the guild trader system is the biggest objection I have to the game at this point. So, objection stated.

Simple.

Simply put all you are stating is your opinion and yes, you are welcome to state your opinions in the forums, nothing more. However, you are also asking for replies when you do so.

Of course you are putting words in my mouth to try to add emphasis to your statements as I really doubt I told you to suck it up or shut up. While have not gone back and read all my posts here I probably settled for explaining the situation here and that major change in the design of the market place in ESO is very unlikely to change as long as the current leadership remains at the helm.

jainiadral

idk wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

Vandellia wrote: »

To be totally honest here this is all a moot argument its not going to happen and personally i dont think it will happen for a reason none of you have listed if you think about guild banks whats the main issue with them ? i know that money deposited goes missing from time to time it goes into the great bit bucket in the sky and requires intervention . okay now that being said a region wide ah or server wide ah would be a nightmare and would induce massive lag that would more then likely make the game unplayable as currently configured i shudder to think about the lag a ah would cause .

I firmly believe the main reason for the current system is due to technical infrastructure limitations as much as any reasons put forth by players, as well as the poor design eats up a lot of player time, which is very clearly a key feature of ESO .

Just trying to get search results and / or buy something at a single store can lag out - if everything were sold through a common server wide system, the game would probably crash.

And while I'd love to have a single marketplace (mostly when buying as trying to locate items even with PC add-ons and the TTC site is a giant waste of time), they could make what we have much better with just a few basic improvements to the UI.

The biggest improvement would be to add a search function that includes use of text / keywords and searches everything without having to know ever single sub category, that and better / user defined filters.

Which is kind of odd, considering GW2 is two years older and manages to have an auction house that links two continent-separated megaservers together and updates in real time. Makes me wonder what kind of kludgy duct-taped solution the ESO folks are running. I also wonder if having something centralized might use fewer resources than running eleventy-trillion-but-not-yet-enough guild traders' databases simultaneously.

I'd take having a real UI-integrated search as a massive improvement, honestly. Awesome Guild Store gets bogged down constantly and category searches almost never seem to work right. And that's the "good" part of running the game on PC. I'd shoot myself if I had to deal with console players' limitations. You guys have my sympathies!

Devs' vision or not, the system stinks. The more I interact with it, the more frustrated I become. Trying to buy anything is a massive chore that involves exiting the game for TTC, then a prayer as I hop onto my sorc who has all the cities unlocked. Then another as I go from trader to trader, realizing that someone purchased the freshly-posted TTC item just a minute before I loaded in

Like the grind that's getting added into every event, it's one of the things that's beginning to chip away at my will to log in.

Really good speculation. However, it is rather irrelevant what GW2 has. Many that play here choose to not play GW2.

Beyond that, we have what we have here for a trading system. Devs clearly stated they wanted a guild based trading system and they have shown no signs that is it not living up to their expectations. Clearly a great many active players like it as it has clearly created a robust economy.

Like it or not it is not changing anytime soon.

"Robust" is interesting choice of words, considering how the system completely obscures real data from its participants. That's only in ZoS' hands. People might think or feel that it's robust, but that's only an impression based on next-to-no empirical data.

I'm pretty darn sure we're not getting anything GW2 style in this game, which is a big shame. I just find it interesting that an older game has a far more efficient and sophisticated infrastructure. The technology was there when ESO was created to have a decent-running system, and yet ZoS chose this.

I'm also sure that nothing will be changing. However, if the devs do read this thread or any other regarding the trading system, I'm going to register my opinion that it stinks. They can take that opinion or leave it as they choose, which they probably will

That said, I don't particularly care one way or the other that some players like the system. They're free to comment accordingly. That won't change my thoughts one way or the other.

First of all, you really need to read what you quote before you reply. You would understand your comment about GW2 is irrelevant. Being you are here in these forums I am pretty darn sure GW2 is not the game you prefer to play. If I have this wrong them I suggest you go enjoy that game.

Regardless, if you want to stay in ESO I suggest you get used to how the economy is here because it is not going to change because Zos is clearly pleased with the guild traders and continues to add to it, not take away.

I read exactly what you said. And I disagree with it. Vehemently. Theoretical auction house design is exactly what I was talking about from the get-go. Most games of an older vintage than ESO have vastly superior systems to the horrible one ZoS has implemented, including GW2, which has the best designed system I've encountered to date. So it's 100% relevant to what I've been talking about.

You're just telling me to suck it up and shut up because you and some unnamed sector of the ESO population, along with the devs, love it to bits. That has absolutely zero to do with what I was saying-- so if there's anyone speaking irrelevancy, it's not me.

You, however, are welcome to your opinion. As am I.

So long as I'm playing and I want to make any gold in the game, I do have to suck it up. But these forums are places to state your objections, and the guild trader system is the biggest objection I have to the game at this point. So, objection stated.

Simple.

Simply put all you are stating is your opinion and yes, you are welcome to state your opinions in the forums, nothing more. However, you are also asking for replies when you do so.

Of course you are putting words in my mouth to try to add emphasis to your statements as I really doubt I told you to suck it up or shut up. While have not gone back and read all my posts here I probably settled for explaining the situation here and that major change in the design of the market place in ESO is very unlikely to change as long as the current leadership remains at the helm.

Comment away. Enjoy. This exchange, however, has been unproductive and unenlightening, so I'm out. Have a great day!

Elsonso

jainiadral wrote: »

Comment away. Enjoy. This exchange, however, has been unproductive and unenlightening, so I'm out. Have a great day!

One of the curses of being around as long as I have is the intense feeling of Déjà vu.

Auction house, account-wide skyshards/skill points/achievements, ZOS communication, and a host of other topics have already been discussed. In depth. In detail. With passion.

Each topic is destined to be repeated, as if it never happened before. They are fascinating. It is like "social media" is a living thing, but has a memory disorder. Participants are forced to relive past social interactions endlessly. Many of the participants have no idea that they are caught in this loop. To them, it is all fresh and new. For the others, who have been through it before, it gets old and predictable.

Ultimately, these threads end as you have stated above. Unproductive and unenlightening. But, there is a bright spot. I love the clever real-world analogies. Those are often new. Infinite variety.

I am pretty sure that ZOS isn't going to do these things we talk about so passionately in here. All of this is just fun entertainment for the forum. Chatting about things and speculating how we would do things differently. Each time, the same, with the same unavoidable end. And rebirth.

Vanguard1

If you have a limited time to play and don't want to spend your days gathering, buying, or crafting than don't craft in this game. Honestly this game has the best money making crafting out of any MMO I have played; however, the guild traders take hours to visit for a single mat or item. Even with TTC (which doesn't remove sold items) it can take hours to visit every store and with every new expansion we just get more stores to visit.

Due to guild trader cost most guilds require a high sales volume and/or a weekly donation just to keep up with the rising cost of bids. Traders in mournhold for example cost over 10 mil a week which the guilds cannot make in taxes. I assume from the lack of change in 5 years that it is an intended effect, you can either spend your days shopping and selling or you can play the game.

To me this is a broken system but I am obviously wrong and unfortunately I just haven't found a better MMO yet but once released I think I waited long enough for a change and it is never going to happen. I love the game but I also love crafting and selling stuff, which makes this game a bad choice. I personally sell over a mil a week in crafted items; however, I spend days each week shopping for mats, and I still donate over 10k a week to each of my guilds and participate in the auctions they have.

Ryath_Waylander

Mr_Walker wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Taking away guild traders would destroy the game. 90% of guilds in eso are guilds because of traders, take them away and you lose that and most likely lose a big bumber of players.

So you'd lose people who don't actually play the game but show up just to flip items. No great loss there.

I'm sorry but that is a completely, selfish, sweeping, genralised and ignorant comment. I play this game every day. I fish, I quest, I farm, I Pvp, I do Trials and dungeons. I have fun chatting to fellow guidies in my social trading guild (no dues, small town merchant location) Recently I decided to buy myself a Notable home. I refuse to use RL money to buy a virtual home in a game. It costs 12500 Crowns or 3750000 in game guild. So I joined a trading guild with a Merchant in a good location. There are no fees, in fact that is guild policy. Your membership is week to week depending on sales of 20k, 50k or 100k because of merchant locations. In 5 weeks, I can almost buy that house, I will hit 3 Million tonight. Guild trading system may not be perfect but I wouldn't ever be able to afford the house in under a year without it. If anything it has intensified my immersion in this game. Not all people in trading guilds are flippers and even they have their reasons. One of our best traders flips trades. He has impaired and worsening vision, combat is impossible for him. Would you begrudge him the chance to enjoy the game as well?

zaria

Vanguard1 wrote: »

If you have a limited time to play and don't want to spend your days gathering, buying, or crafting than don't craft in this game. Honestly this game has the best money making crafting out of any MMO I have played; however, the guild traders take hours to visit for a single mat or item. Even with TTC (which doesn't remove sold items) it can take hours to visit every store and with every new expansion we just get more stores to visit.

Due to guild trader cost most guilds require a high sales volume and/or a weekly donation just to keep up with the rising cost of bids. Traders in mournhold for example cost over 10 mil a week which the guilds cannot make in taxes. I assume from the lack of change in 5 years that it is an intended effect, you can either spend your days shopping and selling or you can play the game.

To me this is a broken system but I am obviously wrong and unfortunately I just haven't found a better MMO yet but once released I think I waited long enough for a change and it is never going to happen. I love the game but I also love crafting and selling stuff, which makes this game a bad choice. I personally sell over a mil a week in crafted items; however, I spend days each week shopping for mats, and I still donate over 10k a week to each of my guilds and participate in the auctions they have.

Part of why you make gold is ESO is the guild traders.
An auction house benefit the buyer most of the time. You go to one place look for an item say an motif.
All are listed and you select the cheapest one, all do that and an auction house make it faster.

However as all sellers are underbidding each other, you have to move items as you have limited number of slots.
More sellers so prices will fall much faster than in ESO as the motif has no other value than that someone will buy it for.
Yes its an balance as more will pick them up as price
Yes this happens in ESO to but since its many traders this is slowed down, players will not run around a lot of traders trying to save 500 gold.
Remember that ESO has far more players on megaserver than is on an wow server so trade volume would be much higher.

You also have the risk of some trying to corner the marked for something. to drive up prices harder to do with lots of traders.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Xvorg wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Qualanthar wrote: »

Is this something that has ever been discussed?

Nope. 4.5 years in, I've literally never seen anyone discuss this topic.



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231692/guild-trader-vs-auction-house-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444791/trading-guilds-versus-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392618/can-anyone-clarify-the-auction-houses
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316214/guild-traders-and-bidding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415235/a-central-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323006/global-auction-house-yes-or-no
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349242/guild-trader-question
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/260318/auction-house-guild-trader-compromise
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330717/why-cant-we-get-a-public-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401309/instead-of-a-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/323605/we-need-a-true-auction-house-with-auction-only-and-no-buyout
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/221328/guild-traders-is-a-corrupt-and-invalid-system-we-need-a-mega-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/343187/an-unified-auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411629/central-guild-trader-for-all-in-one-place-or-a-central-market
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/193940/how-does-an-economy-develop-around-this-guild-trading-system
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430814/annoying-idiosyncrasy-2-the-whole-guild-store-thing
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305352/guild-traders-a-thoroughly-miserable-experience
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265335/auction-house
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384555/auction-house-yay-or-nay
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376260/another-auction-house-thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197013/auctions-houses-please-eso
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/406085/why-auction-house-is-bad
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237115/is-there-really-no-auction-house

That's just the first 2 pages of Google results for "eso guild trader auction house". There are about 130,000 more.

quite a summary there, eh?

Auction house in ESO is something that's not gonna happen... even a Necro class has more chances and a Necro class has no chances

Well, you’re definitely wrong now about the Necromancer class