Why, because it rewards you for good positioning & requires some skill to utilize?
If it doesn't kill, then you either hit a tank build with it or you somehow managed to hit buttons in wrong order.
Again, massive l2p issue if you can't one shot a non-tank with it (and even most tanks) before they can react:
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU
Except you don't get "disrupted" by snipe while dodge rolling and take only half the damage of a RC combo. It is very different.
You think requiring 500 ultimate is a big downside? Think again, there's always going to be that one sorc who shows up with full ultimate and ruins your day.
I'm not interested in the consistency of bad experiences, I'm interested in the existence of bad experiences. They shouldn't exist, period.
Why, because it rewards you for good positioning & requires some skill to utilize?
No, because 1.5s is simply not enough time to turn around after a "self root" and land ur combo even if ur opponent doesnt break it. Yes it is very useful, its a good defensive cc and it does pressure roll dodge builds but using it as ur main offensive cc to land ur combos is really not that good because of the way it operates. It can also become extremely costly the more you use it. And yes casting it more than once every 4 seconds is very normal when you rely on it defensively, offensively and for repositioning. Thats simply how streak cc works. Its more of a defensive cc, mobility tool and reveal NBs mechanic. Not a land ur combo cc.
If it doesn't kill, then you either hit a tank build with it or you somehow managed to hit buttons in wrong order.
Again, massive l2p issue if you can't one shot a non-tank with it (and even most tanks) before they can react:
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU
No, its not a l2p issue. Your video of showcasing how broken rune cage can potentially be, does nothing but showing ur own bias. Im sorry but cyrodiil open world is not a bunch of target dummies sitting still waiting for you to land ur combo. Yes rune cage is broken in the way it operates but this fairytale of sorcs running around one shotting everyone with their ridiculously easy combos is just that. A fairytale.
When it comes to ur 2gcd snipe combo out of stealth when people dont even know that you are there and u dont have to bother with defense and stuff it somehow takes skill and it can fail because ur opponents are moving and its open world and u have to position urself and u have to aim it etc, but when it comes to 4gcd sorc combo when they are taking a beating, casting shields, buffs, roll dodging, positioning and opponents moving, its always a l2p issue. Makes sense right? Noooot.
And the term tank can have a lot of different meanings depending on the class you play. Yes the issues of sorcs against tanks are not as big as they were before summerset because dmg is simply too high now so imo removing rune cage dmg will not put it to pre summerset state for that reason so it will still be used and will still be broken. However this doesnt change the fact that sorcs dont have defiles and dots. For balanced sorc builds investing into sustain and survivability even a simple 25k hp build with troll king can become a "tank". Not that unusual scenario is it?
Except you don't get "disrupted" by snipe while dodge rolling and take only half the damage of a RC combo. It is very different.
Except you do get disrupted by a snipe or even a simple light attack out of sneak which stuns you and disrupts ur entire combo. Or even a simple stun out of nowhere. Or even simply getting attacked from someone else in a normal open world scenario and you have to go back to defense. Yeah, you know, those scenarios do happen against sorcs too. They dont have immunity to dmg or any form of cc.
I mean when it comes to that you can always just look at ur own arguments.
You think requiring 500 ultimate is a big downside? Think again, there's always going to be that one sorc who shows up with full ultimate and ruins your day.
I'm not interested in the consistency of bad experiences, I'm interested in the existence of bad experiences. They shouldn't exist, period.
You think a random rune cage with 500 ult a big downside and disrupts u and making ur experience bad. Well try a random NB spamming shieldbreaker. Yeah that happens too, more consistently with a lot less skill required than a full rune cage 500 meteor ult curse frag fury combo.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »The inmates are officially running the Asylum...
The change has been to revert the recent buff with Summerset. Full Stop. NOBODY was complaining about RC last patch.
@DDuke
1. No they didnt. Frag was the main offensive cc. The only combo streak used to be reliable with was meteor to drop block and force land it. And that combo was reliable not because of streak being a reliable offensive cc but because of meteor being delayed allowing you to land it without having to turn around after a self root to do ur entire combo. Know the difference. Also, key word is back in the day. Back in the day we didnt have tanks everywhere either and you didnt need ults to kill people. Back in the day sorcs were tanking zergs with one hand scratching their ****, shields lasted a million years, and they were actually one shotting people with or without ult. Not just because of rune cage. But we dont live in 2015 or 2016 anymore.
2. Balanced cc doesnt make it a good offensive reliable cc. Huge difference. There are plenty of stuns in this game that are balanced but not reliable offensively because of the way they operate. Like the other morph of mass hysteria which i have no clue what its even called. Frag cc was the main sorc offensive cc before master reach and it was also balanced cause it had counters.
3.Key word, when you are outnumbered. Newsflash. Sorcs get outnumbered too. Whats up with this. When we are talking about you its always a messy outnumbered scenario but when we are talking about sorcs its always a controlled environment and they never get attacked by anyone? Ok then, according to your logic then ur snipe combo is braindead easy and you have massive l2p issues if you fail to land it cause when im outnumbered there is always going to come that NB out of stealth with that combo and gank me while im fighting other people.
4. Rune cage doesnt fail when you manage to get the entire combo. Thats why i said potential. However, the fairytale of sorcs running around throwing that entire combo left right and center every few seconds killing anyone they want whenever they want is exactly that. A fairytale. In an actual PVP scenario when you are outnumbered and stuns, siege, ganks and everything flying around you, you quickly come to realize that timing 5 different skills isnt that easy anymore. Not because its difficult to actually perform that combo. But because of the chaotic situation you may find your self in. Exactly like your combo and exactly like the vast majority of combos if not all of them regardless of class.
5.Feanor's point is actually prety obvious. He said that the frustration of rune cage is mostly because of the situation you are actually describing. Being outnumbered in a chaotic situation and then out of nowhere you get hit by a random combo with rune cage. And he compared it with getting hit by a snipe from stealth as a sorc and dying before you even break free. Or any other similar frustrating situation you can come across in a 1vX.
6. Yes i get a chance to react to those shieldbreakers. Especially when outnumbered which is prety much always. I get the chance to see a potato that doesnt even know the basics of this game melting me by sitting 30 meters away and spamming left click. Totally not ruining my experience. Sorry, but Id much rather getting hit by a full rune cage combo with that set and instadie before even realising what happened. At least then ill know that i died to at least a semi decent player being able to beat a DLC dungeon and knowing PVP and sorc mechanics enough to be able to time 5 different skills together.
7. This is the most important part and ill bold it. I didnt defend rune cage. In fact the majority of sorcs arguing with you have also expressed their disdain for rune cage and how broken it is. Their argument with you is about your blatant bias when it comes to the class and your ridiculous assessments about how they need to l2p.
The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.
What is the purpose of this thread if you don't bring anything interesting ?
There is already a thousand nerf rune cage thread going at the same times:
They reduced the damage by 20% but with 4.1.2 they removed the damage ( It only deals damage if the stun lasts for its full duration... ). because there is a thousand thread going on the same issue and nobody agree on what make rune cage OP.
As a DK I think rune cage is fine. Rune Cage was originally changed when sorc's lost CC of frags almost a year ago, several top tier sorcs were using it then and no one complained. Sorcs are ranged, they have a ranged unblockable cc, fits with the class. Sorry not sorry
The thing is, rune cage is the last counter to rolly polly stamblade.
If it become dodgeable, stamblade would be god mode more than never.
Imo, the changes should be still does damage, but reduce the CC to 3sec instead of 5
I main magplar btw, rune cage is annoying for sure, but I don't want to see nightblade rolly polly godmode.
Rolly polly took an indirect buff by the Sload changes being a projectile, and they were already at the top of the food chain
Fixed it for you. Great math if Susan buys 40 watermelons at the grocery. Again subtract Vigor and Rally/FM ticks.So you have 20k health pool with 17 634 Spell Resistance (27%) with Major Ward active in noCP.
I have almost the same on my bowblade & it's unsurvivable. Here's why:
Sorc tooltip burst without Meteor in proper gear: 38 259
Sorc penetration: 12 264
38 259-(50%[Battle Spirit]*8,112%[17634-12 264])=17 577 damage
That drops potatoes to 2423 health, which means you're either dead to Fury or you're just... dead if you were below 100% health when combo went off.
No Meteors involved & that's actually not even counting Rune Cage damage (as I just took numbers from my previous noCP burst calculation accounting the removal of RC damage).
It's not rocket science.
Magsorc is also the only class that doesn't have a defensive mechanism that scales with numbers.
1v1 yes shields are strong--and I think shields need to be looked at--but they are not a perfect universal defense.
Last I checked, every class was capable of dodge rolling/blocking. It's a matter of how you build your character, just like I've built my magicka DK to do almost zero blocking (destro/resto) & have a shield based defense like sorcs.
And it still does just fine in PvP.
Fixed it for you. Great math if Susan buys 40 watermelons at the grocery. Again subtract Vigor and Rally/FM ticks.So you have 20k health pool with 17 634 Spell Resistance (27%) with Major Ward active in noCP.
I have almost the same on my bowblade & it's unsurvivable. Here's why:
Sorc tooltip burst without Meteor in proper gear: 38 259
Sorc penetration: 12 264
38 259-(50%[Battle Spirit]*8,112%[17634-12 264])=17 577 damage
That drops potatoes to 2423 health, which means you're either dead to Fury or you're just... dead if you were below 100% health when combo went off.
No Meteors involved & that's actually not even counting Rune Cage damage (as I just took numbers from my previous noCP burst calculation accounting the removal of RC damage).
It's not rocket science.
Let me clarify some things.
1. You seem upset so I'm not going point for point anymore--it's convoluting the discussion. For instance I never said I stack health on sorc. And you bash Magelight despite it providing more burst max stat than the two health glyphs I slotted on my stamblade in order to "[join] the "stack bleeds & sloads to get kills" when prior to Rune Cage sorcs had a very flexible flex skill.
3. I think the meta's and definitions of terms we have are too different. I'd hardly consider a CP 22k health and 20k incap a "health stacking tank Sloads bleed build" But apparently that's what my stamblade is to you. Oh and it runs a 2h Sword and back bar master bow so I have 0 bleeds.
The point I am trying to make is this:
Overnerfing Rune Cage results in a loss of burst damage as well as sustained pressure (pressure=/damage).
Sorc burst without Rune damage and Meteor is not high enough to 100%-0% the average player with an active defence (i.e. vigor, shields, cleanse, wings, etc). With Meteor, yes it can kill a lot of people but so can a PI+Dizzy+DB+executioner. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Removing the damage but maintaining functionality still leaves sorc with competitive pressure. Without the threat of the CC, sorc pressure falls back to Force Shock spam.
So if Rune Cage CC is to be removed (which it should be, unblockable CC isn't what a sorc needs against tanks and having unblockable/unavoidable damage and CC on 1 class is too much) there needs to be a counter buff to accommodate for the significant loss of burst and pressure.Magsorc is also the only class that doesn't have a defensive mechanism that scales with numbers.
1v1 yes shields are strong--and I think shields need to be looked at--but they are not a perfect universal defense.
Last I checked, every class was capable of dodge rolling/blocking. It's a matter of how you build your character, just like I've built my magicka DK to do almost zero blocking (destro/resto) & have a shield based defense like sorcs.
And it still does just fine in PvP.
So you're saying I can increase my survivability based on how I choose to build my character?
And not trying to offend you. I think you're an intelligent player and I enjoy your play style. I just think you tend to show a bias to it regarding anything that counters your preferred build. In this case, your examples include math that looks accurate but overstates the power of magsorc without Rune damage because you deal slightly too much with the theoretical.
Zos clearly stated that this skill is still being worked on during the pts but they need more testing done first. For example they are considering making the skill dogable and more visible inorder to enable counter play. So chillax for!;)
If i got a dollar for everytime I head ZOS was going to fix something, i would have bought them out and made the changes my self -.- jk jk.. but still, I wont rest on this topic until something actually gets changed.
No class should have access to both an unblockable and undodgable CC and unblockable and undodgable damage as it severely limits counterplay.
Take Rune Cage away, but give us something to compensate for the frag nerf that resulted in a loss of damage, bar space and a GCD because without it sorcs don't have competitive pressure or burst.
So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0 (for the sake of the argument)
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
@DDuke
Last thing I’ll say in this thread as it gets extremely tedious (I don’t care if RC gets nerfed or replaced or something, what I care for that there is something useful to compensate for): You always assess everything through your “all out damage no sustain” build philosophy. That’s why your numbers are what they are.
You talk about the receiving end. I talk about the attacker.
You talk about the receiving end. I talk about the attacker.
I see.
You said to Dduke: "You always assess everything through your “all out damage no sustain” build philosophy. That’s why your numbers are what they are. A lot of people don’t build that way as they don’t like this “all in” play style that comes very close to a gank setup"
I naturally assumed you are talking about his build in the above quote, not the attacker's. If that is incorrect then i misunderstood you.
@DDuke
1. No they didnt. Frag was the main offensive cc. The only combo streak used to be reliable with was meteor to drop block and force land it. And that combo was reliable not because of streak being a reliable offensive cc but because of meteor being delayed allowing you to land it without having to turn around after a self root to do ur entire combo. Know the difference. Also, key word is back in the day. Back in the day we didnt have tanks everywhere either and you didnt need ults to kill people. Back in the day sorcs were tanking zergs with one hand scratching their ****, shields lasted a million years, and they were actually one shotting people with or without ult. Not just because of rune cage. But we dont live in 2015 or 2016 anymore.
Streak was the main CC most sorcs used against me, because I'd just dodge roll all their attempts of throwing a Frag at my face for CC.
It meant sorcs had limited amount of burst vs non-tank builds due to dodge roll, while they still kept most of their burst and pressure against tankier targets that weren't able to dodge roll those frags.
And that's how it should be, none of this Rune Cage bull***.2. Balanced cc doesnt make it a good offensive reliable cc. Huge difference. There are plenty of stuns in this game that are balanced but not reliable offensively because of the way they operate. Like the other morph of mass hysteria which i have no clue what its even called. Frag cc was the main sorc offensive cc before master reach and it was also balanced cause it had counters.
What makes you think you should have "reliable CC" on the class with highest burst damage in the game?
Landing CCs should require skill, like Manifestation of Terror (the trap morph of fear) which I actually consider the better morph of the skill since it lets you bypass GCD should you manage to get someone to step into your trap (meaning it enables burst to land faster and lets you kill skilled players who CC Break+dodge fast, unlike the other morph).
Frag with CC also wasn't reliable (being dodgeable/blockable) and that's the only thing that made it and sorcs balanced.3.Key word, when you are outnumbered. Newsflash. Sorcs get outnumbered too. Whats up with this. When we are talking about you its always a messy outnumbered scenario but when we are talking about sorcs its always a controlled environment and they never get attacked by anyone? Ok then, according to your logic then ur snipe combo is braindead easy and you have massive l2p issues if you fail to land it cause when im outnumbered there is always going to come that NB out of stealth with that combo and gank me while im fighting other people.
Big difference: sorcs have 30k shield stacks to hide behind to prevent getting instagibbed by things like Rune Cage combos (or Snipe, which deals less damage).
When I get Rune Caged on a medium stamblade, I'm just as squishy as a sorc without shields and about to get hit by the highest damage burst in the entire game.
And no, I'm not saying dmg shields are "op" or anything - I'm saying dodge roll is too weak as a defensive mechanic because of Rune Cage.4. Rune cage doesnt fail when you manage to get the entire combo. Thats why i said potential. However, the fairytale of sorcs running around throwing that entire combo left right and center every few seconds killing anyone they want whenever they want is exactly that. A fairytale. In an actual PVP scenario when you are outnumbered and stuns, siege, ganks and everything flying around you, you quickly come to realize that timing 5 different skills isnt that easy anymore. Not because its difficult to actually perform that combo. But because of the chaotic situation you may find your self in. Exactly like your combo and exactly like the vast majority of combos if not all of them regardless of class.
Hitting buttons in a certain order and getting a guaranteed kill isn't easy? Tell that to the 4376854 sorcs currently getting easymode kills in BGs/open world.
Either all skilled players have somehow concentrated on the sorc class, or there's something awry...5.Feanor's point is actually prety obvious. He said that the frustration of rune cage is mostly because of the situation you are actually describing. Being outnumbered in a chaotic situation and then out of nowhere you get hit by a random combo with rune cage. And he compared it with getting hit by a snipe from stealth as a sorc and dying before you even break free. Or any other similar frustrating situation you can come across in a 1vX.
There is no comparison to any other scenario you can come across in a 1vX.
Rune Cage combo is harder to avoid, deals more damage & much, much more common than anything else out there.6. Yes i get a chance to react to those shieldbreakers. Especially when outnumbered which is prety much always. I get the chance to see a potato that doesnt even know the basics of this game melting me by sitting 30 meters away and spamming left click. Totally not ruining my experience. Sorry, but Id much rather getting hit by a full rune cage combo with that set and instadie before even realising what happened. At least then ill know that i died to at least a semi decent player being able to beat a DLC dungeon and knowing PVP and sorc mechanics enough to be able to time 5 different skills together.
So dying to someone spamming light attacks at you over an extended period of time is somehow worse than being instagibbed by completely unavoidable burst?
I'm sorry, but if you can't come up with a solution over the 5+ seconds it takes for Shield Breaker user to kill you through shields, then that Shield Breaker user (who has gimped his build to specifically be strong against dmg shields) probably deserves that kill.
I can think of over a dozen variations of how I'd deal with that situation, but I think I already listed the best options in previous post.
Also, I'd assume hope you don't have much trouble with these builds in a 1v1 scenario.
Guess what kills you whether you're 1v1 or 1vX or XvX and leaves you no time to formulate a response? Rune Cage combo.7. This is the most important part and ill bold it. I didnt defend rune cage. In fact the majority of sorcs arguing with you have also expressed their disdain for rune cage and how broken it is. Their argument with you is about your blatant bias when it comes to the class and your ridiculous assessments about how they need to l2p.
Really? Here's some of this famous "disdain" from this thread alone:The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.What is the purpose of this thread if you don't bring anything interesting ?
There is already a thousand nerf rune cage thread going at the same times:
They reduced the damage by 20% but with 4.1.2 they removed the damage ( It only deals damage if the stun lasts for its full duration... ). because there is a thousand thread going on the same issue and nobody agree on what make rune cage OP.As a DK I think rune cage is fine. Rune Cage was originally changed when sorc's lost CC of frags almost a year ago, several top tier sorcs were using it then and no one complained. Sorcs are ranged, they have a ranged unblockable cc, fits with the class. Sorry not sorryThe thing is, rune cage is the last counter to rolly polly stamblade.
If it become dodgeable, stamblade would be god mode more than never.
Imo, the changes should be still does damage, but reduce the CC to 3sec instead of 5
I main magplar btw, rune cage is annoying for sure, but I don't want to see nightblade rolly polly godmode.
Rolly polly took an indirect buff by the Sload changes being a projectile, and they were already at the top of the food chain
lmao, the majority of the posts in this thread alone are people defending the Rune Cage without any actual facts or math to back up their arguments. Just regurgitating the same "I hate stamblades, I deserve free kills on them" bull*** in different forms.
Just going to ignore your baseless quips. I'm tired of pointing out obvious bias so just gonna leave with this:So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0 (for the sake of the argument)
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
So going based off your example--on a build that won't work for a real 1vx, (can't do this:)
Including Fury, that's 5 skills, 5 GCDs, 5 seconds. So you're getting a full Vigor during this. We'll remove all but 1 light attacks since I don't want to do the math of Vigor v LA:
total tooltip damage without Meteor is:
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0 (for the sake of the argument)
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
Well assume Fury=4 000
Total Tooltip damage: 36 883
36 883-(50%[Battle Spirit]*8,112%[17634-12 264])=15 102 damage
That puts you just under 25%. Assuming you know that burst is coming, you're going to pop another vigor around the same time you are tagged with Curse so you'll be getting 1.5 seconds of Vigor. But just add that single 1.5k tick and look. Not in execute range. Pop vigor one more time and Rally and you're back to full health assuming you do more than stand there and take it.
I stand by my statement that the removal of the damage from Rune is a significant nerf to sorc burst. The damage is more important than the CC. Give me that 7k tooltip damage and spread it amongst my Curse Fury and Frag and I'll run no CC except Streak and DB all day. Without the damage on Cage most sorcs will probably go back to DB anyways.
With the current removal of damage from Rune, Sorcs can't kill anything without ultimate. Except glass builds.
I find it surprising that you protect your play style and justify nerfing a whole class solely to protect it. People have pointed out counters--both build and mechanics based and you would rather an entire class be overnerfed without compensation simply to protect your play style as opposed to throw on a Health glyph or two and lose 800 tooltip damage. Meanwhile sorcs just lost 8k tooltip and majority of sorcs aren't complaining about the loss of Cage CC. We almost all want it gone. We just want proper compensation for the over nerf of frags that was slightly alleviated with the damage of Cage.
Damageless cage is the middle ground. A temporary solution until ZoS decides to actually look at class balance. Every level headed sorc was against the Cage changes during last PTS. Right now it's half and half: half wanting it gone and half wanting it to stay ONLY because the class isn't going to receive a counter buff but would still rather have it gone. The only ones genuinely wanting it to stay are meta chasers. I WANT CAGE GONE BUT I WANT SOMETHING IN RETURN SINCE CAGE WAS THE COMPENSATION FOR FRAG NERF.
Remove the whole adversarial "your build v magsorc" from the conversation. It's not necessary.
Idc that your build is hard countered. I do care that 1 class has undodgeable and unblockable CC and damage.
Idc that Rune Cage should be removed. I do care that without it sorc pressure is going to fall off again due to an ill-advised nerf from around 5 patches ago.
I want my class to be balanced, same as you want you bow build to be "balanced".
@DDuke
1. No they didnt. Frag was the main offensive cc. The only combo streak used to be reliable with was meteor to drop block and force land it. And that combo was reliable not because of streak being a reliable offensive cc but because of meteor being delayed allowing you to land it without having to turn around after a self root to do ur entire combo. Know the difference. Also, key word is back in the day. Back in the day we didnt have tanks everywhere either and you didnt need ults to kill people. Back in the day sorcs were tanking zergs with one hand scratching their ****, shields lasted a million years, and they were actually one shotting people with or without ult. Not just because of rune cage. But we dont live in 2015 or 2016 anymore.
Streak was the main CC most sorcs used against me, because I'd just dodge roll all their attempts of throwing a Frag at my face for CC.
It meant sorcs had limited amount of burst vs non-tank builds due to dodge roll, while they still kept most of their burst and pressure against tankier targets that weren't able to dodge roll those frags.
And that's how it should be, none of this Rune Cage bull***.2. Balanced cc doesnt make it a good offensive reliable cc. Huge difference. There are plenty of stuns in this game that are balanced but not reliable offensively because of the way they operate. Like the other morph of mass hysteria which i have no clue what its even called. Frag cc was the main sorc offensive cc before master reach and it was also balanced cause it had counters.
What makes you think you should have "reliable CC" on the class with highest burst damage in the game?
Landing CCs should require skill, like Manifestation of Terror (the trap morph of fear) which I actually consider the better morph of the skill since it lets you bypass GCD should you manage to get someone to step into your trap (meaning it enables burst to land faster and lets you kill skilled players who CC Break+dodge fast, unlike the other morph).
Frag with CC also wasn't reliable (being dodgeable/blockable) and that's the only thing that made it and sorcs balanced.3.Key word, when you are outnumbered. Newsflash. Sorcs get outnumbered too. Whats up with this. When we are talking about you its always a messy outnumbered scenario but when we are talking about sorcs its always a controlled environment and they never get attacked by anyone? Ok then, according to your logic then ur snipe combo is braindead easy and you have massive l2p issues if you fail to land it cause when im outnumbered there is always going to come that NB out of stealth with that combo and gank me while im fighting other people.
Big difference: sorcs have 30k shield stacks to hide behind to prevent getting instagibbed by things like Rune Cage combos (or Snipe, which deals less damage).
When I get Rune Caged on a medium stamblade, I'm just as squishy as a sorc without shields and about to get hit by the highest damage burst in the entire game.
And no, I'm not saying dmg shields are "op" or anything - I'm saying dodge roll is too weak as a defensive mechanic because of Rune Cage.4. Rune cage doesnt fail when you manage to get the entire combo. Thats why i said potential. However, the fairytale of sorcs running around throwing that entire combo left right and center every few seconds killing anyone they want whenever they want is exactly that. A fairytale. In an actual PVP scenario when you are outnumbered and stuns, siege, ganks and everything flying around you, you quickly come to realize that timing 5 different skills isnt that easy anymore. Not because its difficult to actually perform that combo. But because of the chaotic situation you may find your self in. Exactly like your combo and exactly like the vast majority of combos if not all of them regardless of class.
Hitting buttons in a certain order and getting a guaranteed kill isn't easy? Tell that to the 4376854 sorcs currently getting easymode kills in BGs/open world.
Either all skilled players have somehow concentrated on the sorc class, or there's something awry...5.Feanor's point is actually prety obvious. He said that the frustration of rune cage is mostly because of the situation you are actually describing. Being outnumbered in a chaotic situation and then out of nowhere you get hit by a random combo with rune cage. And he compared it with getting hit by a snipe from stealth as a sorc and dying before you even break free. Or any other similar frustrating situation you can come across in a 1vX.
There is no comparison to any other scenario you can come across in a 1vX.
Rune Cage combo is harder to avoid, deals more damage & much, much more common than anything else out there.6. Yes i get a chance to react to those shieldbreakers. Especially when outnumbered which is prety much always. I get the chance to see a potato that doesnt even know the basics of this game melting me by sitting 30 meters away and spamming left click. Totally not ruining my experience. Sorry, but Id much rather getting hit by a full rune cage combo with that set and instadie before even realising what happened. At least then ill know that i died to at least a semi decent player being able to beat a DLC dungeon and knowing PVP and sorc mechanics enough to be able to time 5 different skills together.
So dying to someone spamming light attacks at you over an extended period of time is somehow worse than being instagibbed by completely unavoidable burst?
I'm sorry, but if you can't come up with a solution over the 5+ seconds it takes for Shield Breaker user to kill you through shields, then that Shield Breaker user (who has gimped his build to specifically be strong against dmg shields) probably deserves that kill.
I can think of over a dozen variations of how I'd deal with that situation, but I think I already listed the best options in previous post.
Also, I'd assume hope you don't have much trouble with these builds in a 1v1 scenario.
Guess what kills you whether you're 1v1 or 1vX or XvX and leaves you no time to formulate a response? Rune Cage combo.7. This is the most important part and ill bold it. I didnt defend rune cage. In fact the majority of sorcs arguing with you have also expressed their disdain for rune cage and how broken it is. Their argument with you is about your blatant bias when it comes to the class and your ridiculous assessments about how they need to l2p.
Really? Here's some of this famous "disdain" from this thread alone:The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.What is the purpose of this thread if you don't bring anything interesting ?
There is already a thousand nerf rune cage thread going at the same times:
They reduced the damage by 20% but with 4.1.2 they removed the damage ( It only deals damage if the stun lasts for its full duration... ). because there is a thousand thread going on the same issue and nobody agree on what make rune cage OP.As a DK I think rune cage is fine. Rune Cage was originally changed when sorc's lost CC of frags almost a year ago, several top tier sorcs were using it then and no one complained. Sorcs are ranged, they have a ranged unblockable cc, fits with the class. Sorry not sorryThe thing is, rune cage is the last counter to rolly polly stamblade.
If it become dodgeable, stamblade would be god mode more than never.
Imo, the changes should be still does damage, but reduce the CC to 3sec instead of 5
I main magplar btw, rune cage is annoying for sure, but I don't want to see nightblade rolly polly godmode.
Rolly polly took an indirect buff by the Sload changes being a projectile, and they were already at the top of the food chain
lmao, the majority of the posts in this thread alone are people defending the Rune Cage without any actual facts or math to back up their arguments. Just regurgitating the same "I hate stamblades, I deserve free kills on them" bull*** in different forms.
Reliable cc doesn't mean guaranteed cc. Ffs. Is that really so hard to understand. And streak was not the main offensive cc for sorcs. Frags were. Streak was effective against your nb specifically because streak is the main mechanic sorcs use to keep u out of cloak and disrupt ur combo. Like seriously the fact that u can't even realize that shows how little knowledge u have when it comes to the class. Go back and watch ur old video duel between u and the sorc. Watch it carefully to see how the sorc is using streak against you.
And if we are going this way and Sorcs should only have streak cc then how about we entirely delete incap cc, sneak cc, surprise attack cc and mass hysteria. Yeah that would be balanced.
Honestly there is really no point discussing this further with you. You are so biased to the point where it's becoming a meme. Keep believing in fairytales.
Also nice attempt with that list of dumb comments to make ur point. Now u can actually go back to the forums since rune cage became a monster and see the Constructive comments from people who actually know what they are talking about. And then feel free to ask urself why they are all arguing with you if they don't like cage either. Maybe ull realize how stupid some of ur comments are.
@DDuke.
Could you just tell us what you purpose for sorc ? Then we could talk about that, It's your 23rd comment on this thread and I still don't understand what you want.
@DDuke.
Could you just tell us what you purpose for sorc ? Then we could talk about that, It's your 23rd comment on this thread and I still don't understand what you want.
For Rune Cage to be dodgeable, like mentioned in ESO Live.
Removing damage from it doesn't matter when that damage removal can be negated by set choices (e.g. Balorgh and any future set they might add for burst) to still guarantee instagibs on non-tank builds.
In fact, they should keep the damage if they make it dodgeable so sorcs have a good tool against tank builds that require the extra sustained dps.
@DDuke.
Could you just tell us what you purpose for sorc ? Then we could talk about that, It's your 23rd comment on this thread and I still don't understand what you want.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.