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4.1.2 Rune cage change is a joke.
-
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭...and when I present some facts to prove all those notions wrong, I get ignored and people repeat the same bogus claims again. There really is only one response to that.
Pretty rich coming from a guy who ignores facts about sorcs that he got wrong, just because they don't fit his agenda.
Oh, this should be fun.
Such as?
Necro/Destruction/Slime being a viable build?
If you build for max dmg playstyle, sure it is. Probably too advanced for players like you though.
You'll run out of resources in prolonged keep fights after a minute.
But you wouldn't know, you're just cheesing your way through BGs, while demanding nerfs to everything that could potentially kill you.
I mean, the sheer ignorance you show is stupefying.
Are you really gonna tell a four-year magsorc how to play? LMFAO. If you had the slightest bit of knowledge about this class, you would also be aware that two mismatched max magicka monster pieces are almost tge same damage as Slimecraw, but much better for sustain and shields. That is why no sorc uses Slimecraw.
Oh, but of course, that would be too inconvenient for Duke's argument. Nonono, his build must be allowed to instagib people in BG, so naturally there must be a theoretical setup for sorcs, even though it doesn't work, so you can point fingers and distract from how awful you actually are in real combat. Do us a favor abd stop preteding you'd know anything about sorcs, it's getting pathetic.
You lose between 2-3k burst on a Meteor combo by slotting two magicka sets instead of Slimecraw.
Also, there are ways to manage low regen (e.g. more heavy attack weaves, slotting Meditate) on any class.
Every time some random noob has appeared and said "Deci, you can't sustain that it's impossible" I've gone ahead and done it. When do you learn?
Also, four years is an awful long time to suck at this game. Go learn some math and stop crutching on (and defending) broken, overpowered skills....and when I present some facts to prove all those notions wrong, I get ignored and people repeat the same bogus claims again. There really is only one response to that.
Pretty rich coming from a guy who ignores facts about sorcs that he got wrong, just because they don't fit his agenda.
Oh, this should be fun.
Such as?
Necro/Destruction/Slime being a viable build?
If you build for max dmg playstyle, sure it is. Probably too advanced for players like you though.
Says the guy who doesn't even know how streak works.
I know how streak can work in proper hands, he does too:IAVITNI wrote:The most amazing clip of KodiPvP I ever saw was when he Streaked through a target dummy and turned 360 so seamlessly that I thought the clip skipped. Most impressive thing I've ever seen in ESO.
As I said, if you want to make streak more viable CC for the masses go ahead and make a "buff streak" post.
But keep in mind that the only thing that makes an undodgeable CC like that balanced right now is the fact that you don't have enough time to land literally all your burst on a medium armor build before it can CC break & react.
I wish same the design was used on other hard CCs...
Heavy staff attacks for sustain! Meditate!
x'DDD
You're digging the hole deeper and deeper. At this point I start pitying you. Your arguments have been shattered so badly by knowledgable players, that only insulting people is left for you. How sad and just a waste of time.
Oh, and Spinner's outperforms Destruction Mastery. But it doesn't give you the tooltip numbers, which is all you cared for, the five minutes you sat on UESP.
Seriously, any good sorc player here must be laughing his/her butt off over the stuff you say.
xD
Spinner gives you smaller shields & zero dmg against opponent's dmg shields and if you don't know how to heavy attack sustain or use Meditate properly then I can't help you. L2P I'm afraid (though given you've been trying for 4 years already, I'd give up at this point).
Oh, god, the L2P argument? Really? You really are out of options.
Fire heavies can be dodged, something you advocate so adamantly. Resto heavies can be blocked, another thing you're defending so zealously. Seeing the contradiction here?
More over, those moves are SO SLOW that you will lose pressure on your opponent relying on 'em. And every good duelist knows that will kill you. And any good sorc knows that will put you in shield-only mode, which will result in you running dry, especially on your phantasm build.
Regarding Spinner's, throw away Slimecraw and Destro Mastery for Domi, Groth and Spinner's. Btw, how do you manage stamina with 0 sustain source? Or is not dodgerolling and blocking also an l2p issue?
Oh, man, this is so rich coming from a dude who calls his own instagib build "skill", while complaining about getting instagibbed himself. Hypocrisy, much?
xD
You think bad players dodge fire heavies or block resto ones? Get real.
Those are the players people fight against in 1vX situations.
In a 1v1 you don't need either of those to sustain, especially when you run Elemental Drain (as any good magicka build should).
Also, thinking high dmg builds are about "pressure" just tells me you've no idea how they function. High dmg build=slow bursts of maximum dmg. Not sustained spam of skill rotations.
And low stam regen doesn't mean no dodging or blocking, it means less dodging and blocking (though you can still dodge a lot if you go 7 Well-Fitted, as long as you make sure you keep enough stamina for CC break).
Of course, stamina is a non-issue for any sorc running Deep Thoughts morph of Meditate.
Oh, and my burst (deals less dmg than sorc burst) is dodgeable/blockable and actually takes some skill to land.
I would never advocate for my build (or any other build) to have a CC that lets me ignore all opponent's defensive mechanics.
So yes, L2P and stop sidetracking this thread: it's not about how viable you or I perceive high dmg builds, but what they can do to other builds.
Me wasting time trying to explain a concept to you that you can never understand is not going to help anyone.
I invite people to try out the opposing sides build with some minor adjustments to suit your overall play style (an example of what not to do is to use anything but a bow as a weapon, that is no 2h, Dw, snb, or staff for ddukes build) to the build and then comment on their experiences along with nesesary changes. It seems like one or both sides aren’t fully understanding the arguments preached by both sidesEdited by JobooAGS on July 26, 2018 2:56PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke.
Could you just tell us what you purpose for sorc ? Then we could talk about that, It's your 23rd comment on this thread and I still don't understand what you want.
He wants to be able to dodge everything. He doesn't actually care about Rune Cage being balanced; he only cares that it's "balanced" for his preferred playstyle.
He wants people to win against others because they were the superior player rather than being carried by OP abilities. What a strange one he is.
Agreed that people need to stop getting carried by Cloak and dodge roll spam. God forbid a scrublade actually have to eat a DoT or a single-target ability from time to time.
Lol dodge rolling is useless most of the time. Cloak is as OP as shield stacking. If only there was a potion I could take to remove shields... I'd be chugging those all day!
Well, if recasting shields would force miss all single target attacks then too...
All Gap closers / dizzy / poison injection / skoria / warden birds / snipe / crystal frags / vampire bane / fighter guild xbow / DW flurry / flying blade / stone fist / plenty more I can’t think of
Basically everything you’d be able to hit a NB with while they’re aggressively kiting.
Remember that there is not a detect / speed pot available. You have to pick one or the other. This means that a decent Nightblade will be be able to outrun and kite anyone using a detect pot. Melee abilities will not land.
The most frustrating miss is the gap closer. The usual counter to being kited - stampede - will not land and will not apply its snare due to the forced miss from vanish.
EDIT:
I’m removing DK leap and meteor from the list temporarily. I believe the mechanic is that if the NB who hits vanish mid-attack is the target, it’ll force a miss, but if they get hit by splash dmg from another target then it won’t miss. Could someone who has tested this specifically confirm?
I agree with this, dodge rolling isn't useless most of the time - in fact it's the only thing keeping medium armor (not just NBs - it's actually exponentially more important for other stam builds that can't alternate between it and cloak) even barely alive currently.
That said, it does have strong counters (DoTs, Bombard/Acid Spray, Steel Tornado, Curse, POTL, Streak, Fossilize, Empowering Chains, destro/lightning heavy attacks, Jabs/Sweeps), extremely strong ones like DBOS, Meteor, Leap & Soul Assault and it can't be spammed forever (atleast in noCP).
Ironically NB is the class with least counters for dodge roll.
And then there's Rune Cage, which makes this defensive mechanic 100% obsolete and useless in fights with sorcs involved.
If you find it problematic that it still lets you avoid many single target attacks let me pose you a question: what would you like dodge roll to do then as a defensive mechanic? Nothing?
I think people have this irrational hatred of builds that evade attacks (whether by dodge or cloak) and perceive them as more "overpowered" than they actually are, which kinda reflects back on this thread (people are opposed to dodgeable Rune Cage because it'd be good for these "overpowered" builds specifically). Just an observation.Edited by DDuke on July 26, 2018 3:01PM0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would like to get rid of all or nothing solutions, @DDuke. Subsequent uses shouldn’t be handled with a cost increase, but with a certain percentage of damage coming through. I’d like that for DK wings as well, or shields. Of course you’d have to tweak secondary defenses and maybe damage values then too, but it would result in a much more active defensive play that would also require investing more into it instead of just stacking damage.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭...and when I present some facts to prove all those notions wrong, I get ignored and people repeat the same bogus claims again. There really is only one response to that.
Pretty rich coming from a guy who ignores facts about sorcs that he got wrong, just because they don't fit his agenda.
Oh, this should be fun.
Such as?
Necro/Destruction/Slime being a viable build?
If you build for max dmg playstyle, sure it is. Probably too advanced for players like you though.
You'll run out of resources in prolonged keep fights after a minute.
But you wouldn't know, you're just cheesing your way through BGs, while demanding nerfs to everything that could potentially kill you.
I mean, the sheer ignorance you show is stupefying.
Are you really gonna tell a four-year magsorc how to play? LMFAO. If you had the slightest bit of knowledge about this class, you would also be aware that two mismatched max magicka monster pieces are almost tge same damage as Slimecraw, but much better for sustain and shields. That is why no sorc uses Slimecraw.
Oh, but of course, that would be too inconvenient for Duke's argument. Nonono, his build must be allowed to instagib people in BG, so naturally there must be a theoretical setup for sorcs, even though it doesn't work, so you can point fingers and distract from how awful you actually are in real combat. Do us a favor abd stop preteding you'd know anything about sorcs, it's getting pathetic.
You lose between 2-3k burst on a Meteor combo by slotting two magicka sets instead of Slimecraw.
Also, there are ways to manage low regen (e.g. more heavy attack weaves, slotting Meditate) on any class.
Every time some random noob has appeared and said "Deci, you can't sustain that it's impossible" I've gone ahead and done it. When do you learn?
Also, four years is an awful long time to suck at this game. Go learn some math and stop crutching on (and defending) broken, overpowered skills....and when I present some facts to prove all those notions wrong, I get ignored and people repeat the same bogus claims again. There really is only one response to that.
Pretty rich coming from a guy who ignores facts about sorcs that he got wrong, just because they don't fit his agenda.
Oh, this should be fun.
Such as?
Necro/Destruction/Slime being a viable build?
If you build for max dmg playstyle, sure it is. Probably too advanced for players like you though.
Says the guy who doesn't even know how streak works.
I know how streak can work in proper hands, he does too:IAVITNI wrote:The most amazing clip of KodiPvP I ever saw was when he Streaked through a target dummy and turned 360 so seamlessly that I thought the clip skipped. Most impressive thing I've ever seen in ESO.
As I said, if you want to make streak more viable CC for the masses go ahead and make a "buff streak" post.
But keep in mind that the only thing that makes an undodgeable CC like that balanced right now is the fact that you don't have enough time to land literally all your burst on a medium armor build before it can CC break & react.
I wish same the design was used on other hard CCs...
Heavy staff attacks for sustain! Meditate!
x'DDD
You're digging the hole deeper and deeper. At this point I start pitying you. Your arguments have been shattered so badly by knowledgable players, that only insulting people is left for you. How sad and just a waste of time.
Oh, and Spinner's outperforms Destruction Mastery. But it doesn't give you the tooltip numbers, which is all you cared for, the five minutes you sat on UESP.
Seriously, any good sorc player here must be laughing his/her butt off over the stuff you say.
xD
Spinner gives you smaller shields & zero dmg against opponent's dmg shields and if you don't know how to heavy attack sustain or use Meditate properly then I can't help you. L2P I'm afraid (though given you've been trying for 4 years already, I'd give up at this point).
Oh, god, the L2P argument? Really? You really are out of options.
Fire heavies can be dodged, something you advocate so adamantly. Resto heavies can be blocked, another thing you're defending so zealously. Seeing the contradiction here?
More over, those moves are SO SLOW that you will lose pressure on your opponent relying on 'em. And every good duelist knows that will kill you. And any good sorc knows that will put you in shield-only mode, which will result in you running dry, especially on your phantasm build.
Regarding Spinner's, throw away Slimecraw and Destro Mastery for Domi, Groth and Spinner's. Btw, how do you manage stamina with 0 sustain source? Or is not dodgerolling and blocking also an l2p issue?
Oh, man, this is so rich coming from a dude who calls his own instagib build "skill", while complaining about getting instagibbed himself. Hypocrisy, much?
xD
You think bad players dodge fire heavies or block resto ones? Get real.
Those are the players people fight against in 1vX situations.
In a 1v1 you don't need either of those to sustain, especially when you run Elemental Drain (as any good magicka build should).
Also, thinking high dmg builds are about "pressure" just tells me you've no idea how they function. High dmg build=slow bursts of maximum dmg. Not sustained spam of skill rotations.
And low stam regen doesn't mean no dodging or blocking, it means less dodging and blocking (though you can still dodge a lot if you go 7 Well-Fitted, as long as you make sure you keep enough stamina for CC break).
Of course, stamina is a non-issue for any sorc running Deep Thoughts morph of Meditate.
Oh, and my burst (deals less dmg than sorc burst) is dodgeable/blockable and actually takes some skill to land.
I would never advocate for my build (or any other build) to have a CC that lets me ignore all opponent's defensive mechanics.
So yes, L2P and stop sidetracking this thread: it's not about how viable you or I perceive high dmg builds, but what they can do to other builds.
Me wasting time trying to explain a concept to you that you can never understand is not going to help anyone.
I invite people to try out the opposing sides build with some minor adjustments to suit your overall play style (an example of what not to do is to use anything but a bow as a weapon, that is no 2h, Dw, snb, or staff for ddukes build) to the build and then comment on their experiences along with nesesary changes. It seems like one or both sides aren’t fully understanding the arguments preached by both sides
Both DDuke and I have stamblades and magsorcs. We both play those builds differently though. My magsorc is a necro build with engine guardian, and I'm a non-stealth melee medium armor stamblade whereas he's a medium armor bow stamblade that utilizes stealth.
Admittedly I stopped playing my magsorc shortly after gearing him for Summerset because I saw how broken OP they were this patch first hand. I have no interest in playing something so cheesey. Thankfully I have my stamblade (my main), and my magDK to hold me over. I'll be trying out the stamplar again next update though due to the Rune change.Edited by Strider__Roshin on July 26, 2018 3:15PM0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@DDuke.
Could you just tell us what you purpose for sorc ? Then we could talk about that, It's your 23rd comment on this thread and I still don't understand what you want.
He wants to be able to dodge everything. He doesn't actually care about Rune Cage being balanced; he only cares that it's "balanced" for his preferred playstyle.
He wants people to win against others because they were the superior player rather than being carried by OP abilities. What a strange one he is.
Agreed that people need to stop getting carried by Cloak and dodge roll spam. God forbid a scrublade actually have to eat a DoT or a single-target ability from time to time.
Lol dodge rolling is useless most of the time. Cloak is as OP as shield stacking. If only there was a potion I could take to remove shields... I'd be chugging those all day!
Well, if recasting shields would force miss all single target attacks then too...
All Gap closers / dizzy / poison injection / skoria / warden birds / snipe / crystal frags / vampire bane / fighter guild xbow / DW flurry / flying blade / stone fist / plenty more I can’t think of
Basically everything you’d be able to hit a NB with while they’re aggressively kiting.
Remember that there is not a detect / speed pot available. You have to pick one or the other. This means that a decent Nightblade will be be able to outrun and kite anyone using a detect pot. Melee abilities will not land.
The most frustrating miss is the gap closer. The usual counter to being kited - stampede - will not land and will not apply its snare due to the forced miss from vanish.
EDIT:
I’m removing DK leap and meteor from the list temporarily. I believe the mechanic is that if the NB who hits vanish mid-attack is the target, it’ll force a miss, but if they get hit by splash dmg from another target then it won’t miss. Could someone who has tested this specifically confirm?
I agree with this, dodge rolling isn't useless most of the time - in fact it's the only thing keeping medium armor (not just NBs - it's actually exponentially more important for other stam builds that can't alternate between it and cloak) even barely alive currently.
That said, it does have strong counters (DoTs, Bombard/Acid Spray, Steel Tornado, Curse, POTL, Streak, Fossilize, Empowering Chains, destro/lightning heavy attacks, Jabs/Sweeps), extremely strong ones like DBOS, Meteor, Leap & Soul Assault and it can't be spammed forever (atleast in noCP).
Ironically NB is the class with least counters for dodge roll.
And then there's Rune Cage, which makes this defensive mechanic 100% obsolete and useless in fights with sorcs involved.
If you find it problematic that it still lets you avoid many single target attacks let me pose you a question: what would you like dodge roll to do then as a defensive mechanic? Nothing?
Aaaaaaand here we go with your dishonest arguments again. Your entire perspective (as much as you try to deny it) is that you want to ensure your playstyle of cycling Dodge and Cloak basically allows you to avoid nearly all damage. You dishonestly say "just use Bombard to deal with dodge rollers LOL!" when that's EXACTLY the purpose of abilities like Rune Cage and Fossilize. The ONLY reason you take issue with abilities like Rune Cage and not abilities like Bombard is because (1) Rune Cage/Fossilize serve multiple purposes beyond being a crappy AoE and thus find themselves on more ability bars; and (2) Rune Cage/Fossilize actually threaten your playstyle.
If people outside zerg surfers actually used Bombard regularly I might sympathize with your argument. But people don't use it so don't peddle the lie that Bombard is somehow a sufficient enough of a hard counter to your playstyle to justify nerfing other hard counters that people actually use.
As other people have pointed out, and as I have come to realize after reading your posts for months, is that you just want to change the game to suit your playstyle--you're totally unwilling to change your playstyle to adapt to a changing game. So do us all a favor and stop zerging EVERY PTS CYCLE with disingenuous arguments and "math" just because you want to be carried by abilities that until recently had very limited counters.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭...and when I present some facts to prove all those notions wrong, I get ignored and people repeat the same bogus claims again. There really is only one response to that.
Pretty rich coming from a guy who ignores facts about sorcs that he got wrong, just because they don't fit his agenda.
Oh, this should be fun.
Such as?
Necro/Destruction/Slime being a viable build?
If you build for max dmg playstyle, sure it is. Probably too advanced for players like you though.
You'll run out of resources in prolonged keep fights after a minute.
But you wouldn't know, you're just cheesing your way through BGs, while demanding nerfs to everything that could potentially kill you.
I mean, the sheer ignorance you show is stupefying.
Are you really gonna tell a four-year magsorc how to play? LMFAO. If you had the slightest bit of knowledge about this class, you would also be aware that two mismatched max magicka monster pieces are almost tge same damage as Slimecraw, but much better for sustain and shields. That is why no sorc uses Slimecraw.
Oh, but of course, that would be too inconvenient for Duke's argument. Nonono, his build must be allowed to instagib people in BG, so naturally there must be a theoretical setup for sorcs, even though it doesn't work, so you can point fingers and distract from how awful you actually are in real combat. Do us a favor abd stop preteding you'd know anything about sorcs, it's getting pathetic.
You lose between 2-3k burst on a Meteor combo by slotting two magicka sets instead of Slimecraw.
Also, there are ways to manage low regen (e.g. more heavy attack weaves, slotting Meditate) on any class.
Every time some random noob has appeared and said "Deci, you can't sustain that it's impossible" I've gone ahead and done it. When do you learn?
Also, four years is an awful long time to suck at this game. Go learn some math and stop crutching on (and defending) broken, overpowered skills....and when I present some facts to prove all those notions wrong, I get ignored and people repeat the same bogus claims again. There really is only one response to that.
Pretty rich coming from a guy who ignores facts about sorcs that he got wrong, just because they don't fit his agenda.
Oh, this should be fun.
Such as?
Necro/Destruction/Slime being a viable build?
If you build for max dmg playstyle, sure it is. Probably too advanced for players like you though.
Says the guy who doesn't even know how streak works.
I know how streak can work in proper hands, he does too:IAVITNI wrote:The most amazing clip of KodiPvP I ever saw was when he Streaked through a target dummy and turned 360 so seamlessly that I thought the clip skipped. Most impressive thing I've ever seen in ESO.
As I said, if you want to make streak more viable CC for the masses go ahead and make a "buff streak" post.
But keep in mind that the only thing that makes an undodgeable CC like that balanced right now is the fact that you don't have enough time to land literally all your burst on a medium armor build before it can CC break & react.
I wish same the design was used on other hard CCs...
Heavy staff attacks for sustain! Meditate!
x'DDD
You're digging the hole deeper and deeper. At this point I start pitying you. Your arguments have been shattered so badly by knowledgable players, that only insulting people is left for you. How sad and just a waste of time.
Oh, and Spinner's outperforms Destruction Mastery. But it doesn't give you the tooltip numbers, which is all you cared for, the five minutes you sat on UESP.
Seriously, any good sorc player here must be laughing his/her butt off over the stuff you say.
xD
Spinner gives you smaller shields & zero dmg against opponent's dmg shields and if you don't know how to heavy attack sustain or use Meditate properly then I can't help you. L2P I'm afraid (though given you've been trying for 4 years already, I'd give up at this point).
Oh, god, the L2P argument? Really? You really are out of options.
Fire heavies can be dodged, something you advocate so adamantly. Resto heavies can be blocked, another thing you're defending so zealously. Seeing the contradiction here?
More over, those moves are SO SLOW that you will lose pressure on your opponent relying on 'em. And every good duelist knows that will kill you. And any good sorc knows that will put you in shield-only mode, which will result in you running dry, especially on your phantasm build.
Regarding Spinner's, throw away Slimecraw and Destro Mastery for Domi, Groth and Spinner's. Btw, how do you manage stamina with 0 sustain source? Or is not dodgerolling and blocking also an l2p issue?
Oh, man, this is so rich coming from a dude who calls his own instagib build "skill", while complaining about getting instagibbed himself. Hypocrisy, much?
xD
You think bad players dodge fire heavies or block resto ones? Get real.
Those are the players people fight against in 1vX situations.
In a 1v1 you don't need either of those to sustain, especially when you run Elemental Drain (as any good magicka build should).
Also, thinking high dmg builds are about "pressure" just tells me you've no idea how they function. High dmg build=slow bursts of maximum dmg. Not sustained spam of skill rotations.
And low stam regen doesn't mean no dodging or blocking, it means less dodging and blocking (though you can still dodge a lot if you go 7 Well-Fitted, as long as you make sure you keep enough stamina for CC break).
Of course, stamina is a non-issue for any sorc running Deep Thoughts morph of Meditate.
Oh, and my burst (deals less dmg than sorc burst) is dodgeable/blockable and actually takes some skill to land.
I would never advocate for my build (or any other build) to have a CC that lets me ignore all opponent's defensive mechanics.
So yes, L2P and stop sidetracking this thread: it's not about how viable you or I perceive high dmg builds, but what they can do to other builds.
Me wasting time trying to explain a concept to you that you can never understand is not going to help anyone.
I invite people to try out the opposing sides build with some minor adjustments to suit your overall play style (an example of what not to do is to use anything but a bow as a weapon, that is no 2h, Dw, snb, or staff for ddukes build) to the build and then comment on their experiences along with nesesary changes. It seems like one or both sides aren’t fully understanding the arguments preached by both sides
Both DDuke and I have stamblades and magsorcs. We both play those builds differently though. My magsorc is a necro build with engine guardian, and I'm a non-stealth melee medium armor build whereas he's a medium bow build that utilizes stealth.
Admittedly I stopped playing my magsorc shortly after gearing him for Summerset because I saw how broken OP they were this patch first hand. I have no interest in playing something so cheesey. Thankfully I have my stamblade (my main), and my magDK to hold me over. I'll be trying out the stamplar again next update though due to the Rune change.
I was going more towards the others trying out ddukes build or a version of it (well, a double bow build, they can build for sustain or flat out damage or whatever) but I can see where you got that tone fromEdited by JobooAGS on July 26, 2018 3:09PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke.
Could you just tell us what you purpose for sorc ? Then we could talk about that, It's your 23rd comment on this thread and I still don't understand what you want.
He wants to be able to dodge everything. He doesn't actually care about Rune Cage being balanced; he only cares that it's "balanced" for his preferred playstyle.
He wants people to win against others because they were the superior player rather than being carried by OP abilities. What a strange one he is.
Agreed that people need to stop getting carried by Cloak and dodge roll spam. God forbid a scrublade actually have to eat a DoT or a single-target ability from time to time.
Lol dodge rolling is useless most of the time. Cloak is as OP as shield stacking. If only there was a potion I could take to remove shields... I'd be chugging those all day!
Well, if recasting shields would force miss all single target attacks then too...
All Gap closers / dizzy / poison injection / skoria / warden birds / snipe / crystal frags / vampire bane / fighter guild xbow / DW flurry / flying blade / stone fist / plenty more I can’t think of
Basically everything you’d be able to hit a NB with while they’re aggressively kiting.
Remember that there is not a detect / speed pot available. You have to pick one or the other. This means that a decent Nightblade will be be able to outrun and kite anyone using a detect pot. Melee abilities will not land.
The most frustrating miss is the gap closer. The usual counter to being kited - stampede - will not land and will not apply its snare due to the forced miss from vanish.
EDIT:
I’m removing DK leap and meteor from the list temporarily. I believe the mechanic is that if the NB who hits vanish mid-attack is the target, it’ll force a miss, but if they get hit by splash dmg from another target then it won’t miss. Could someone who has tested this specifically confirm?
I agree with this, dodge rolling isn't useless most of the time - in fact it's the only thing keeping medium armor (not just NBs - it's actually exponentially more important for other stam builds that can't alternate between it and cloak) even barely alive currently.
That said, it does have strong counters (DoTs, Bombard/Acid Spray, Steel Tornado, Curse, POTL, Streak, Fossilize, Empowering Chains, destro/lightning heavy attacks, Jabs/Sweeps), extremely strong ones like DBOS, Meteor, Leap & Soul Assault and it can't be spammed forever (atleast in noCP).
Ironically NB is the class with least counters for dodge roll.
And then there's Rune Cage, which makes this defensive mechanic 100% obsolete and useless in fights with sorcs involved.
If you find it problematic that it still lets you avoid many single target attacks let me pose you a question: what would you like dodge roll to do then as a defensive mechanic? Nothing?
Aaaaaaand here we go with your dishonest arguments again. Your entire perspective (as much as you try to deny it) is that you want to ensure your playstyle of cycling Dodge and Cloak basically allows you to avoid nearly all damage. You dishonestly say "just use Bombard to deal with dodge rollers LOL!" when that's EXACTLY the purpose of abilities like Rune Cage and Fossilize. The ONLY reason you take issue with abilities like Rune Cage and not abilities like Bombard is because (1) Rune Cage/Fossilize serve multiple purposes beyond being a crappy AoE and thus find themselves on more ability bars; and (2) Rune Cage/Fossilize actually threaten your playstyle.
I don't have an issue with Fossilize, I'm not sure what gave you that idea.
The difference between spamming Bombard to kill a dodge roller & hitting Rune Cage button is that it takes time for me to take a dodge roller down and they can find LOS or just get into melee range & sidestep the Bombard cone where it's thinnest to counter it. Rune Cage is "hit a button, guarantee a kill" and has no counterplay.
Also, if you think Bombard is just a crappy AoE you clearly haven't played a bow build after they made it undodgeable (or ever).
It scores the vast majority of my kills in BGs by dealing 10k tooltip damage (I've had 5-6k crits in BGs), snares/roots people to help kiting (which is the counter to Fossilize btw) them and counters cloak.If people outside zerg surfers actually used Bombard regularly I might sympathize with your argument. But people don't use it so don't peddle the lie that Bombard is somehow a sufficient enough of a hard counter to your playstyle to justify nerfing other hard counters that people actually use.
I mean, I've already got two videos where you can see me use Bombard (as a solo player, not zerg surfer) to get kills.
People just haven't realized the power of that skill yet (which is good news for me lol). After all, it's only recently that people figured out Steel Tornado (spin2win) is effective for example.
I've even got a stam DK bow build that uses it as the only damaging spammable (no Snipe) with Red Mountain, Skoria & Plague Slinger.As other people have pointed out, and as I have come to realize after reading your posts for months, is that you just want to change the game to suit your playstyle--you're totally unwilling to change your playstyle to adapt to a changing game. So do us all a favor and stop zerging EVERY PTS CYCLE with disingenuous arguments and "math" just because you want to be carried by abilities that until recently had very limited counters.
Oh yes, god forbid I want to play (and have fun) on something else than a mSorc or a *** bleed stacking tank.
That I refuse to change my playstyle into something I don't enjoy and instead want the game to cater to as many different playstyles as possible.
Shame on me.Edited by DDuke on July 26, 2018 3:30PM0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That I refuse to change my playstyle into something I don't enjoy and instead want the game to cater to as many different playstyles as possible.
Shame on me.
Again, completely dishonest. If you actually cared about "as many different playstyles as possible" then you'd be complaining about the things that actually make Rune Cage broken, specifically: its outrageous range for an unblockable CC, the unnecessarily high damage for a CC, and the bugginess of the stun.
But you only campaign for it to be dodgeable. Because if it's dodgeable then your playstyle can potentially mitigate the effects of it completely. Meanwhile it remains the same for Every.Single.Magicka.Class. And you say crap like you want the game impreoved for as many different playstyles as possible. It's the fact that you lie so blatantly that make your posts so offensive Every.Single.PTS.Cycle.
I really wish you'd just come out and say what you really mean: That you want dodge roll to basically have fewer/no counters because you believe that the increased stamina costs per dodge roll is enough of a counter in an of itself. And that you don't really care about things going through block or things going through shields or things that don't affect your playstyle generally. I would have some respect for you if you actually said what you really mean. Further, if you did actually make a point to be honest and say what you really mean, then you could just come out and say it and not feel inclined to zerg everything thread in attempt to try to explain why your obviously contradictory statements aren't actually contradictory (even though they are, we can read).
Edited by Kilandros on July 26, 2018 3:49PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭That I refuse to change my playstyle into something I don't enjoy and instead want the game to cater to as many different playstyles as possible.
Shame on me.
Again, completely dishonest. If you actually cared about "as many different playstyles as possible" then you'd be complaining about the things that actually make Rune Cage broken, specifically: its outrageous range for an unblockable CC, the unnecessarily high damage for a CC, and the bugginess of the stun.
I have complained about all of those? I was the first one to point those out in Summerset PTS ffsBut you only campaign for it to be dodgeable. Because if it's dodgeable then your playstyle can potentially mitigate the effects of it completely. Meanwhile it remains the same for Every.Single.Magicka.Class. And you say crap like you want the game impreoved for as many different playstyles as possible. It's the fact that you lie so blatantly that make your posts so offensive Every.Single.PTS.Cycle.
Again, I would go through my post history before raging at me like that. I've provided dozens of ways to address Rune Cage both here & in the class Discord - dodgeable is just one way they could keep the ability relevant while fixing the biggest issue with it (I don't see magicka builds with shields or tanks getting blown up in 1GCD by Rune Cage).
Here's multiple other ideas that could work:- Make Rune Cage give caged player a huge damage shield. If caged player breaks the CC early, it deals the remaining shield strength as damage. Fixes getting instagibbed by burst (unless you misplay & break it early when you should just let it soak the burst) & provides sorcs with an interesting CC that is different from other CCs in that it encourages people to stay CC'd. A true crowd control ability. Potential issues: oblivion damage.
- Make it blockable. Again, doesn't really matter how it's countered, just that it can be. Tank builds generally don't get one shot by it so this would empower builds that have the least problems with Rune Cage (and builds which Sorcs have the most problems killing).
- Remove 1s delay before stun lands. Prevents guaranteed landing of Frag and hugely reduces burst damage to people who CC break quick & block or dodge the Frag.
I really wish you'd just come out and say what you really mean: That you want dodge roll to basically have fewer/no counters because you believe that the increased stamina costs per dodge roll is enough of a counter in an of itself. And that you don't really care about things going through block or things going through shields or things that don't affect your playstyle generally. I would have some respect for you if you actually said what you really mean. Further, if you did actually make a point to be honest and say what you really mean, then you could just come out and say it and not feel inclined to zerg everything thread in attempt to try to explain why your obviously contradictory statements aren't actually contradictory (even though they are, we can read).
I don't want there to be abilities that 100->0 builds in 1 GCD and can't be countered in any way - not by outranging, not by kiting, not by blocking and not by dodging, not by precasting heals or basically anything available to stamina builds.
Is that too much to ask for?
Also, I play other classes than my bow(or melee, I've got two) NB. Next patch my "main class" that I focus on will most likely be the magicka DK (with dmg shield based defense), as there aren't really any new changes that'd make the bowblade more interesting to play (not complaining about that, I don't expect every patch to bring something interesting & new to every playstyle).Edited by DDuke on July 26, 2018 4:12PM0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke
To be fair though, these arguments re not being presented in a non-bias faction.
Damage Shields, Heals, and Rune Cage all require the use of bar slots, we only get 10 total slots(including ultimates)
Dodge roll as a defense mechanic DOES NOT require a Bar Slot, the fact Rune Prison does makes its balanced against dodge roll (You may not like that, Im not really a big fan of, but it is)
Dodge roll also gets armor traits(Well-fitted), CP points, and Armor passives that reduce its costs making it the best overall defensive mechanic in the game by a large margin due to the fact it gets all this without the need of taking up skill slots that can then be used for other more useful skill. compared to Rune Cage on live this is balanced. Considering the Iframe window of dodge is far too long(You can pre-activly dodge skill, I can dodge as soon as a Templar starts casting Dark Flare and i will dodge it nearly a seond after standing up, thats broken!!!!) Dodge has been broken like this for a long time.
Mag Sorc is trash now, and has been for about a year. I was a long time Mag Sorc from 2013 beta till early this year. I just gave it up for Stam Sorc...Stam Sorc is better in every single way in solo open world Cyrodiil PVP and Battle Grounds...its not even a contest....there are only a few dedicated mag sorcs left on PC NA that are any good, the rest of them i destroy in a NY Minute on my Stam Sorc. Anyone can stand behind a zerg and spam Rune Prison and Fury on people, but that doesn't make Mag Sorc or Rune Cage OP.
It doesn't matter though, Templar will be the staw man next update that Stam Blades and such whine about...Radiant Destruction got buffed back to how it was when it came out in 1.6....just wait till you see that 10-12k Radiant Destruction on your Death Cap that you can't dodge...i give it a week before people are crying about Templars all zerging spamming Radiant on people instead of Sorcs spamming cage.....
Mag Sorc have been nothing but whined about by bad players since I started this game in 2014, its nothing new. Like the OG's say, Mag Sorc is only good for farming potatoes, but there sure are a lot of potatoes to farm, thats for sure. (Not calling you a potatoe, just making a general statement)
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »@DDuke
To be fair though, these arguments re not being presented in a non-bias faction.
Damage Shields, Heals, and Rune Cage all require the use of bar slots, we only get 10 total slots(including ultimates)
Dodge roll as a defense mechanic DOES NOT require a Bar Slot, the fact Rune Prison does makes its balanced against dodge roll (You may not like that, Im not really a big fan of, but it is)
Dodge roll also gets armor traits(Well-fitted), CP points, and Armor passives that reduce its costs making it the best overall defensive mechanic in the game by a large margin due to the fact it gets all this without the need of taking up skill slots that can then be used for other more useful skill. compared to Rune Cage on live this is balanced. Considering the Iframe window of dodge is far too long(You can pre-activly dodge skill, I can dodge as soon as a Templar starts casting Dark Flare and i will dodge it nearly a seond after standing up, thats broken!!!!) Dodge has been broken like this for a long time.
Mag Sorc is trash now, and has been for about a year. I was a long time Mag Sorc from 2013 beta till early this year. I just gave it up for Stam Sorc...Stam Sorc is better in every single way in solo open world Cyrodiil PVP and Battle Grounds...its not even a contest....there are only a few dedicated mag sorcs left on PC NA that are any good, the rest of them i destroy in a NY Minute on my Stam Sorc. Anyone can stand behind a zerg and spam Rune Prison and Fury on people, but that doesn't make Mag Sorc or Rune Cage OP.
It doesn't matter though, Templar will be the staw man next update that Stam Blades and such whine about...Radiant Destruction got buffed back to how it was when it came out in 1.6....just wait till you see that 10-12k Radiant Destruction on your Death Cap that you can't dodge...i give it a week before people are crying about Templars all zerging spamming Radiant on people instead of Sorcs spamming cage.....
Mag Sorc have been nothing but whined about by bad players since I started this game in 2014, its nothing new. Like the OG's say, Mag Sorc is only good for farming potatoes, but there sure are a lot of potatoes to farm, thats for sure. (Not calling you a potatoe, just making a general statement)
Lmfao. Stopped reading after you called mSorc "trash".
You're aware that mSorcs are 80% of BG population right now, and that any time there's a mSorc in a BG it's the player with most kills/assists & the least deaths?
Right now there's top tier players LFM'ing in guild chats for BGs: "sorcs only" and I wish I was exaggerating when I say that.
Sorcerers have always been either the strongest class, or atleast the second/third strongest during the entire lifespan of ESO. That you think otherwise tells more about you as a sorc player than about the class.
Here's how the general population feels about sorcs right now:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425154/what-is-the-most-op-thing-right-now-v2-0/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424974/which-class-is-overpowered-in-overall-performance/p1
...and somehow I doubt they mean stam sorcs.
And here's some BG scoreboards to prove my point, you can guess which class the ones with most kills/assists played:
...and you can guess what caused most of my deaths in those games.
Magicka sorcerer is massively overpowered right now and that's largely due to Rune Cage.
And this is a sentiment echoed by most of this game's top tier players I talk to on PC EU, as well as the streamers/youtubers I watch.
That dodge roll "doesn't consume a skill slot" (you conveniently ignore the fact it has a stacking cost modifier and is available to magicka sorcerers as well) by no means justifies instagibbing players who build around it with an undodgeable/blockable CC that takes zero skill to land.Edited by DDuke on July 26, 2018 7:21PM0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Right now there's top tier players LFM'ing in guild chats for BGs: "sorcs only" and I wish I was exaggerating when I say that.
...And there is PVE guilds asking for Nightblades only ...
And here's some BG scoreboards to prove my point, you can guess which class the ones with most kills/assists played:
Something
Something
...and you can guess what caused most of my deaths in those games.
You're aware that mSorcs are 80% of BG population right now, and that any time there's a mSorc in a BG it's the player with most kills/assists & the least deaths?
Sorry but no, you can not prove anything with these scores, I can spam my finisher in all directions and get the same result ... It's an issue with the BG scoring system.
Edited by Apherius on July 26, 2018 7:31PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
The reason most people get into finisher range in the first place is because of sorcs throwing Rune Cages around & disabling all their defenses. I know this, because it's how 90% of my BG deaths happen and it's what I see on streams & youtube videos as well.
It's not enough to have the strongest execute in game, but apparently sorcs feel entitled to CCs that guarantee people fall into execute range too?
I'm well aware of the PvE issues & magblades being the FOTM there, I suggest you take those to a PvE thread where they are relevant.1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Lmfao. Stopped reading after you called mSorc "trash".
thats too bad, Folks who don't read opinions, even ones they disagree with, are limiting their horizons and ability to learn and take in new information. The biggest obstacle to growing as a human being is learning how to learn from criticism and being open to other viewpoints.You're aware that mSorcs are 80% of BG population right now, and that any time there's a mSorc in a BG it's the player with most kills/assists & the least deaths?
What does that have to do with anything? Just because something is popular doesn't make it the best, OP, or anything else. Thats like saying Donald Trump is smartest man in America based solely on the fact he won the popular vote. That is basing a viewpoint on a logical fallacy.Right now there's top tier players LFM'ing in guild chats for BGs: "sorcs only" and I wish I was exaggerating when I say that.
Again, that doesn't prove anything other then something is popular. If Mag Sorcs were as strong as people proport they would never die, and we know thats not true. The same can be said for others classes as well.Sorcerers have always been either the strongest class, or atleast the second/third strongest during the entire lifespan of ESO. That you think otherwise tells more about you as a sorc player than about the class.
No they haven't. From Beta to 1.5 they were the weakest class in the game.(I know because i played every day back then) They also had the lowest DPS in PVE in the game, and the only thing they were useful for in PVP were to be Negate monkeys. This is the reason so many of the OG Sorcs (Like me) were mostly solo players in PVP, because we were completely useless in any other class role and if you wanted to run with any groups you either slotted Negate or were kicked out...I, like Ezareth and few others decided to buck the tend and run alone using Overload and Atronach, to kill folks and kite people.
that I think differently then you means im bad? thats a stretch.
Do you understand that I have went toe to toe with the legends on PC-NA, Ezareth, Pixysticks, Cinnamon, Morinith, Teargrants, the Arcanist, Super Mad, German, Hell I have even went toe to toe with Sypher back in the day and have a .500 record against him in multiple encounters. Sypher was a pretty cool dude, too bad him and Ez gone.
Please don't assume, I am a pretty decent player. I am not as good as I used to be because I don't have the time to play that I used to, but I still do pretty damn well. You really shouldn't resort to insults towards people who don't agree with you. Its in very poor taste and shows a lack of maturity.Here's how the general population feels about sorcs right now:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425154/what-is-the-most-op-thing-right-now-v2-0/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424974/which-class-is-overpowered-in-overall-performance/p1
...and somehow I doubt they mean stam sorcs.
What the general population thinks doesn't matter though. What they think doesn't make it anymore factual than what you, I, or anyone else here thinks.Opinions are not facts, they are not proven.And here's some BG scoreboards to prove my point, you can guess which class the ones with most kills/assists played:
...and you can guess what caused most of my deaths in those games.
Again, proving you can spam a Execute from range to get kills on players who lost 80% of their health by other means doesn't prove anything. Impale and Radiant Destruction can and have done the same thing at different times.Magicka sorcerer is massively overpowered right now and that's largely due to Rune Cage.
Thats your opinion, and not one I share. All the Rune Cage change was in a nutshell was ZOS moved the CC component from Frags to Cage (forcing Mag Sorcs to use another bar slot for a CC), after looking at the numbers instead of adding the 20% damage bonus back to the Frag proc, they added it to Rune Cage instead, Overall the change to removed damage and CC from Fragments and put them on Rune Cage is an overall nerf because it requires two bar slots for the same damage output that possible just with one slot and pre-nerf Crystal Frags...i'd rather have the 30% bonus damage and CC on Crystal Frags then the dumb rune Cage we have now simply because it was better and also freed up another bar slot for more useful skills. Every Mag Sorc worth there salt agree with me...could put a lot of useful items in that bar slot they are forced to slot Rune Cage in right now.And this is a sentiment echoed by most of this game's top tier players I talk to on PC EU, as well as the streamers/youtubers I watch.
Top players are biased to their own dispositions, and steamers are not exactly a source of justification. If Cage is a hard counter to part of their build of course they are going to complain about it, but that doesn't make it right or factual. Thats not factual data. I was stringing Fury + Curse + Ice Comet + Streak long ago to blow people up (Streak used to be an unblockable disorient so it opened up people to eat unblocked meteors) and that was no more OP then Rune Cage is...just a different way to get the same damage output and Streak couldn't be dodged either.
[/quote]That dodge roll "doesn't consume a skill slot" (you conveniently ignore the fact it has a stacking cost modifier and is available to magicka sorcerers as well) by no means justifies instagibbing players who build around it with an undodgeable/blockable CC that takes zero skill to land.
And your conveniently ignoring the fact that Magicka based cost reductions were removed completely from CP which makes all forms of magicka based defense(healing and shielding) more expensive then stamina based defense (dodge roll) overall. This is not mention the fact that stamina builds can use Helping Hands, Dark Deal, etc to convert magicka to stamina with no risk of being unable to CC break or block resulting in their death unlike Mag Builds who try to convert Stam to Mag mid fight usually end up getting killed for it or at great risk due to being unable to dodge or CC break as frequently.
Lets see here Dodge roll is reduced in cost by:
Stamina Cost Reduction glyphs
Medium Armor passives
Well-Fitted Armor Trait
Tumbling CP
Streak, Heals, and Shields get their cost reduced by
Magic Cost Reduction Glyphs
Armor Passives
two means of cost reduction vs four for dodge, and dodge gets the liberty of not having a slot? Yup thats perfectly "balanced and fair"....4 means of cost reduction for dodge roll vs two for streak, and streak has a higher stacking cost modifier...you can't tell me this balanced with a straight face.
I have been quiet on these forums for months, but someone has to stand up for Mag sorcs. Even though I play Stam Sorc now, this has just gotten out of hand. I know its not popular, but other mag sorcs are simply tired of defending their class from the barrage of nerfs, most of them coming from Nightblade class which is the strongest class in the game and has been since 1.6
In reality i'd love it if Rune Cage was changed and Crystal Fragments got its stun and 30% proc damage bonus back. I would maybe go back to playing Mag Sorc if they did that, Maybe. Its not popular but Stam Sorc in most situations is stronger then Mag Sorc right now on live, just most haven't figured it out yet...it hasn't caught on, but it will in the next month or two. Stam Sorc is in a fantastic place right now, many would say is OP big time. I think its just strong.
Look at that list man, Mag Sorcs get access to ZERO major or minor debuffs. They get the least amount of Major/Minor buffs out of all the classes. If they didn't have a decent class shield and Dark conversion no one would even play them at all....
This crusade against Mag Sorcs needs to stop....Wardens, Nightblades, Dragonknights, and Templars are stronger then Sorc is...in the hands of an equally skilled player all of those classes will usually beat a Mag Sorc simply because they are stronger and have more access to useful buffs and debuffs. This is irrefutable.
I know its popular to hate Mag Sorc right now. I'll be frank with it annoys the tar out of me being caged and killed soimetimes. However, when you look at that buff/debuff list...Rune Cage kinda a skill that evens things out....i'd gladly trade RC in an instant for some of those buffs....both vareities of Sorecs could benefit a lot from some of those buffs and debuffs we don't get...
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭IAVITNI wrote:I play on PS4 NA. You're EU PC. Ideally I would like to run all well-fitted on my magsorc but due to latency issues it's simply not possible. Meta's do differ across consoles and due to poorer latency I feel console leans more towards static mitigation because overall combat is simply not as fluid so our realities are likely very different but real none the less. The most amazing clip of KodiPvP I ever saw was when he Streaked through a target dummy and turned 360 so seamlessly that I thought the clip skipped. Most impressive thing I've ever seen in ESO.
Tell me how you got from ^ toIAVITNI wrote:The most amazing clip of KodiPvP I ever saw was when he Streaked through a target dummy and turned 360 so seamlessly that I thought the clip skipped. Most impressive thing I've ever seen in ESO.
As I said, if you want to make streak more viable CC for the masses go ahead and make a "buff streak" post.
But keep in mind that the only thing that makes an undodgeable CC like that balanced right now is the fact that you don't have enough time to land literally all your burst on a medium armor build before it can CC break & react.
I wish same the design was used on other hard CCs...
Honestly, I thought you were objective with a bias to your play style but you're not. You're just self serving.
How is me using Streak as an example to show the clunkiness/latency issues of console relative to PC asking for a Streak buff?
You've partially quoted me on every one of my posts and used the lack of context to make me look like I don't know what I'm talking about.- Any comments on how you referencing my Meteor post was way off the mark?
- Any comments on how I was one of the first to comment on how the damage on Rune was going to bring sorcs back to pre-frag nerf levels resulting in sorcs switching from Dawnbreaker to Meteor on a thread created NINE days before the PTS notes were even released?
- How about when I stated I run 2 health glyphs on my stamblade you took that as me stacking health on my magsorc as well?
No. Of course not. Because it discredits you and doesn't serve your argument. BIAS.
You deserve to have to wait a whole patch for Rune CC to be removed. When it does we'll both be happy because we both want it gone in the long run. However, I won't suffer in the interim.
I can understand different combat philosophies. What I cannot tolerate is your sheer ignorance to your own short-comings in the discussion.2 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭...and when I present some facts to prove all those notions wrong, I get ignored and people repeat the same bogus claims again. There really is only one response to that.
Pretty rich coming from a guy who ignores facts about sorcs that he got wrong, just because they don't fit his agenda.
Oh, this should be fun.
Such as?
A lot of the stuff discussed here has the suggested and dissected in plenty of other threads you have participated in before. And yet here you are, with the same old suggestions.
Please don't ask which threads specifically. There are so many "nerf sorc" and "nerf rune cage" threads that I lost track. Even threads about equipment turned into nerf sorc threads and I neither have the time nor the urge to go through all of them and create a list for you.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭The number of kills sorcs get in BGs are more due to how Endless Fury works than to the overall performance of the class. Even before the buff to Rune Cage sorcs would usually accumulate high kill counts. But a closer look at the overall damage dealt told a very different story. A significant proportion of those "kills" are actually "stolen" from teammates or even the enemy team. But that's not a class balance issue, that's an issue on how the kills are attributed to specific players in BGs. Claiming Sorcs are OP just because the counting mechanism is a pretty weak inference.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
Lmfao. Stopped reading after you called mSorc "trash".
thats too bad, Folks who don't read opinions, even ones they disagree with, are limiting their horizons and ability to learn and take in new information. The biggest obstacle to growing as a human being is learning how to learn from criticism and being open to other viewpoints.
If someone gave you a bad book, would you read it until the end?
No, you wouldn't - time is precious and I'd rather waste it reading opinions/viewpoints of people who have a clue.
So let us do a quick summary:RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »You're aware that mSorcs are 80% of BG population right now, and that any time there's a mSorc in a BG it's the player with most kills/assists & the least deaths?
What does that have to do with anything? Just because something is popular doesn't make it the best, OP, or anything else. Thats like saying Donald Trump is smartest man in America based solely on the fact he won the popular vote. That is basing a viewpoint on a logical fallacy.
So magicka sorcerer just mystically became the most popular class after Summerset, despite it being "trash" as you put it?
Also last I checked your orange president didn't actually win the popular vote and it wasn't a vote on America's smartest (or I'd be very, very worried).
Since you seem to be a fan of fallacies (but don't seem to know proper applications for them), I'd read up on the fallacy fallacy.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Right now there's top tier players LFM'ing in guild chats for BGs: "sorcs only" and I wish I was exaggerating when I say that.
Again, that doesn't prove anything other then something is popular. If Mag Sorcs were as strong as people proport they would never die, and we know thats not true. The same can be said for others classes as well.
Do I really need to point out how ridiculous that whole sentence is?
According to your logic, if player X could wipe the entire server with a button click but would die to 10 other players, player X wouldn't be overpowered.
There's more facets to balance than just whether someone can die or not.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Sorcerers have always been either the strongest class, or atleast the second/third strongest during the entire lifespan of ESO. That you think otherwise tells more about you as a sorc player than about the class.
No they haven't. From Beta to 1.5 they were the weakest class in the game.(I know because i played every day back then) They also had the lowest DPS in PVE in the game, and the only thing they were useful for in PVP were to be Negate monkeys. This is the reason so many of the OG Sorcs (Like me) were mostly solo players in PVP, because we were completely useless in any other class role and if you wanted to run with any groups you either slotted Negate or were kicked out...I, like Ezareth and few others decided to buck the tend and run alone using Overload and Atronach, to kill folks and kite people.
Cool story. Complete bull***, but cool story nonetheless
2014 there were zero stamina builds in end game PvE raids, I had to even spec my Imperial NB to magicka for a while back then to play with the group and there were plenty of sorcerers.
It wasn't until much later that stamina builds even became playable in Trials and it took years before they started to be on par with magicka in PvP.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »that I think differently then you means im bad? thats a stretch.
No, after you're done reading about the fallacy fallacy, pick up the chapter called "strawman".RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Do you understand that I have went toe to toe with the legends on PC-NA, Ezareth, Pixysticks, Cinnamon, Morinith, Teargrants, the Arcanist, Super Mad, German, Hell I have even went toe to toe with Sypher back in the day and have a .500 record against him in multiple encounters. Sypher was a pretty cool dude, too bad him and Ez gone.
Please don't assume, I am a pretty decent player. I am not as good as I used to be because I don't have the time to play that I used to, but I still do pretty damn well. You really shouldn't resort to insults towards people who don't agree with you. Its in very poor taste and shows a lack of maturity.
Cool.
So... sorc maybe wasn't/isn't "trash" then after all? Or maybe you're just so much better than all those other players, going toe to toe with them on a "trash" class.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Here's how the general population feels about sorcs right now:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/425154/what-is-the-most-op-thing-right-now-v2-0/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424974/which-class-is-overpowered-in-overall-performance/p1
...and somehow I doubt they mean stam sorcs.
What the general population thinks doesn't matter though. What they think doesn't make it anymore factual than what you, I, or anyone else here thinks.Opinions are not facts, they are not proven.
Oh, of course they aren't facts. Why would you think that?
For that we have things like science and mathematics, which also back the assertion that sorc burst is overperforming compared to other classes - so there really is two solutions to bring balance:- Nerf all sorc burst abilities until it matches other classes' burst.
- Nerf Rune Cage so that sorcs cannot guarantee all their burst lands.
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »And here's some BG scoreboards to prove my point, you can guess which class the ones with most kills/assists played:
...and you can guess what caused most of my deaths in those games.
Again, proving you can spam a Execute from range to get kills on players who lost 80% of their health by other means doesn't prove anything. Impale and Radiant Destruction can and have done the same thing at different times.
Oh, if Impale and Radiant Destruction can do the same... then why are we seeing only sorcs with most kills/assists (and least deaths)? Rhetorical question, don't bother responding.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
That is the opinion shared by every good sorcerer I've talked to on PC EU, and I know most (if not all) of the "big names" over here.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »And this is a sentiment echoed by most of this game's top tier players I talk to on PC EU, as well as the streamers/youtubers I watch.
Top players are biased to their own dispositions, and steamers are not exactly a source of justification. If Cage is a hard counter to part of their build of course they are going to complain about it, but that doesn't make it right or factual. Thats not factual data. I was stringing Fury + Curse + Ice Comet + Streak long ago to blow people up (Streak used to be an unblockable disorient so it opened up people to eat unblocked meteors) and that was no more OP then Rune Cage is...just a different way to get the same damage output and Streak couldn't be dodged either.
Except you couldn't land Frags before opponent can CC break and you had to actually aim that Streak (which has less range than Rune Cage), though admittedly that didn't require much skill either.
Rune Cage allows you to land much more burst than Streak ever did and requires much less skill to operate.
That is factual data.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »That dodge roll "doesn't consume a skill slot" (you conveniently ignore the fact it has a stacking cost modifier and is available to magicka sorcerers as well) by no means justifies instagibbing players who build around it with an undodgeable/blockable CC that takes zero skill to land.
And your conveniently ignoring the fact that Magicka based cost reductions were removed completely from CP which makes all forms of magicka based defense(healing and shielding) more expensive then stamina based defense (dodge roll) overall. This is not mention the fact that stamina builds can use Helping Hands, Dark Deal, etc to convert magicka to stamina with no risk of being unable to CC break or block resulting in their death unlike Mag Builds who try to convert Stam to Mag mid fight usually end up getting killed for it or at great risk due to being unable to dodge or CC break as frequently.
Lets see here Dodge roll is reduced in cost by:
Stamina Cost Reduction glyphs
Medium Armor passives
Well-Fitted Armor Trait
Tumbling CP
Streak, Heals, and Shields get their cost reduced by
Magic Cost Reduction Glyphs
Armor Passives
two means of cost reduction vs four for dodge, and dodge gets the liberty of not having a slot? Yup thats perfectly "balanced and fair"....4 means of cost reduction for dodge roll vs two for streak, and streak has a higher stacking cost modifier...you can't tell me this balanced with a straight face.
What on earth did I just read...
See, this is exactly why I should've just stopped reading.
How exactly does "my magicka skills cost too much, boo hoo" justify being able to instagib dodgerollers?
For the record, stamina builds have to not only sustain their dodge rolling and blocking, but also their stamina costing skills. On top of that, they also need to sustain magicka (yes, those skills you think are expensive.. lmao).
Not impressed by your game knowledge.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I have been quiet on these forums for months, but someone has to stand up for Mag sorcs. Even though I play Stam Sorc now, this has just gotten out of hand. I know its not popular, but other mag sorcs are simply tired of defending their class from the barrage of nerfs, most of them coming from Nightblade class which is the strongest class in the game and has been since 1.6
Yeah, maybe you should've just stayed quiet... because you're making a fool of yourself now.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »In reality i'd love it if Rune Cage was changed and Crystal Fragments got its stun and 30% proc damage bonus back. I would maybe go back to playing Mag Sorc if they did that, Maybe. Its not popular but Stam Sorc in most situations is stronger then Mag Sorc right now on live, just most haven't figured it out yet...it hasn't caught on, but it will in the next month or two. Stam Sorc is in a fantastic place right now, many would say is OP big time. I think its just strong.
Suuure. You would love if Frags instagibbed people (it btw never dealt +30% damage with the instant proc, it was nerfed from +20% to +10%). The highest burst class in the game could always use a bit more burst, right?
Secretly you really, really like Rune Cage though, because it allows even players of your skill level to perform well. After all, why bother getting good at the game when the game can just be brought down to your level?RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I know its popular to hate Mag Sorc right now. I'll be frank with it annoys the tar out of me being caged and killed soimetimes. However, when you look at that buff/debuff list...Rune Cage kinda a skill that evens things out....i'd gladly trade RC in an instant for some of those buffs....both vareities of Sorecs could benefit a lot from some of those buffs and debuffs we don't get...
Right, tell me when I can slot all of those named buffs on my bar and make a top tier build with it. On any class. I'll be waiting. Also I do hope you realize that "Minor Endurance" isn't much better/worse than a buff like +8% magicka which you can get with Bound Aegis.
In other words, that list is really just a waste of bandwidth.
Also, your list is from... 2016? 2017? It is badly outdated. If you want more named buffs (because obviously those are more important), sorcerers these days have access to:
Major Vitality - from this awesome skill called Restraining Prison. You can slot it on your magicka sorcerer while I go get Minor Vitality on my stamblade by slotting Swallow Soul derp derp
Major Expedition - from Boundless Storm (how old is that list.. hasn't it always had that, ever since Major/Minor buff system was created?)Edited by DDuke on July 27, 2018 1:45AM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The number of kills sorcs get in BGs are more due to how Endless Fury works than to the overall performance of the class. Even before the buff to Rune Cage sorcs would usually accumulate high kill counts. But a closer look at the overall damage dealt told a very different story. A significant proportion of those "kills" are actually "stolen" from teammates or even the enemy team. But that's not a class balance issue, that's an issue on how the kills are attributed to specific players in BGs. Claiming Sorcs are OP just because the counting mechanism is a pretty weak inference.
Before Rune Cage you had to actually be a good sorc player to get to the top of BG scoreboard and/or get high kill counts.
Not the case anymore....and when I present some facts to prove all those notions wrong, I get ignored and people repeat the same bogus claims again. There really is only one response to that.
Pretty rich coming from a guy who ignores facts about sorcs that he got wrong, just because they don't fit his agenda.
Oh, this should be fun.
Such as?
A lot of the stuff discussed here has the suggested and dissected in plenty of other threads you have participated in before. And yet here you are, with the same old suggestions.
Please don't ask which threads specifically. There are so many "nerf sorc" and "nerf rune cage" threads that I lost track. Even threads about equipment turned into nerf sorc threads and I neither have the time nor the urge to go through all of them and create a list for you.
So you've got.. nothing? I'm disappointed.
You can't really expect me to go through different threads which I may/may not have participated in to find "facts about sorc I got wrong". Burden is on the prosecution.
And speaking of prosecution...IAVITNI wrote:I play on PS4 NA. You're EU PC. Ideally I would like to run all well-fitted on my magsorc but due to latency issues it's simply not possible. Meta's do differ across consoles and due to poorer latency I feel console leans more towards static mitigation because overall combat is simply not as fluid so our realities are likely very different but real none the less. The most amazing clip of KodiPvP I ever saw was when he Streaked through a target dummy and turned 360 so seamlessly that I thought the clip skipped. Most impressive thing I've ever seen in ESO.
Tell me how you got from ^ toIAVITNI wrote:The most amazing clip of KodiPvP I ever saw was when he Streaked through a target dummy and turned 360 so seamlessly that I thought the clip skipped. Most impressive thing I've ever seen in ESO.
As I said, if you want to make streak more viable CC for the masses go ahead and make a "buff streak" post.
But keep in mind that the only thing that makes an undodgeable CC like that balanced right now is the fact that you don't have enough time to land literally all your burst on a medium armor build before it can CC break & react.
I wish same the design was used on other hard CCs...
Honestly, I thought you were objective with a bias to your play style but you're not. You're just self serving.
How is me using Streak as an example to show the clunkiness/latency issues of console relative to PC asking for a Streak buff?
You've partially quoted me on every one of my posts and used the lack of context to make me look like I don't know what I'm talking about.- Any comments on how you referencing my Meteor post was way off the mark?
- Any comments on how I was one of the first to comment on how the damage on Rune was going to bring sorcs back to pre-frag nerf levels resulting in sorcs switching from Dawnbreaker to Meteor on a thread created NINE days before the PTS notes were even released?
- How about when I stated I run 2 health glyphs on my stamblade you took that as me stacking health on my magsorc as well?
No. Of course not. Because it discredits you and doesn't serve your argument. BIAS.
You deserve to have to wait a whole patch for Rune CC to be removed. When it does we'll both be happy because we both want it gone in the long run. However, I won't suffer in the interim.
I can understand different combat philosophies. What I cannot tolerate is your sheer ignorance to your own short-comings in the discussion.
...this is really starting to feel like one.
I don't know why you expect me to "comment" about things I haven't heard about or never said in the first place (like you stacking health on your mSorc - I never made this claim).
Why should I give a flying *** about how you were "one of the first to comment" on something? Here you are, months later - defending Rune Cage & picking arguments. I guess you've really developed a liking for the ability, huh?
There was a small part of me that was sad when instagib procs were nerfed in Morrowind & got a delay so people could react to them (*cough* *cough*), but atleast I had the sense to know it was for the best of the game.
Why do you keep making your arguments about me?Edited by DDuke on July 27, 2018 1:36AM1 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem could be solved if they just make it cost stamina instead of magicka. StamSorc is need of some more stamina based skills and MagSorc would have a harder time keeping rune cage up unless they gave up something to spec for more stamina.1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Wow....lol just wow lol
good luck....if you don't see the problem here, your going to need it. LOL!
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Wow....lol just wow lol
good luck....if you don't see the problem here, your going to need it. LOL!
Sorcs were not bad in 1.5, In fact early in Final my group ran two Sorcs/2 DK's as our main DPS in PvP ;but they just weren't stupid overpowered like they were in 1.6 when they mucked everything up. I played against everyone of those people you mentioned....as a Medium armor bow and sword/shield stam DK back when no one played Stam DK....and I can tell you right now most of them weren't bad players..But they weren't "scary" till 1.6 came in and screwed with things. Since then Sorcs have been on the overpowered side pretty much every single patch...and notice I don't specify Stamina or Magicka, because both of the specs are freakin overpowered right now....Edited by Xsorus on July 27, 2018 3:11AMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
reiverx✭✭✭✭✭DDuke wrote:I don't have an issue with Fossilize, I'm not sure what gave you that idea.
No, but you did. I remember a few patches ago where you cluttered up every DK thread with your self-serving vendetta against anything, absolutely anything that countered your playstyle. You had a field day with magDKs and tried to disguise it by rolling your own and coming across as an expert. The devs only heard your voice too.
Sad.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DDuke wrote:I don't have an issue with Fossilize, I'm not sure what gave you that idea.
No, but you did. I remember a few patches ago where you cluttered up every DK thread with your self-serving vendetta against anything, absolutely anything that countered your playstyle. You had a field day with magDKs and tried to disguise it by rolling your own and coming across as an expert. The devs only heard your voice too.
Sad.
Wasn't a Fossilize issue, it was an undodgeable Power Lash issue and I'm glad that got fixed because now medium armor is almost playable. It's not like mDKs have problems against dodge rollers even after that change - before they were free AP.
I'm sorry some players can't win without unfair advantages over their opponents & skills that lower the skill cap of the game.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DDuke wrote:I don't have an issue with Fossilize, I'm not sure what gave you that idea.
No, but you did. I remember a few patches ago where you cluttered up every DK thread with your self-serving vendetta against anything, absolutely anything that countered your playstyle. You had a field day with magDKs and tried to disguise it by rolling your own and coming across as an expert. The devs only heard your voice too.
Sad.
Wasn't a Fossilize issue, it was an undodgeable Power Lash issue and I'm glad that got fixed because now medium armor is almost playable. It's not like mDKs have problems against dodge rollers even after that change - before they were free AP.
I'm sorry some players can't win without unfair advantages over their opponents & skills that lower the skill cap of the game.
Says the guy who needs a one-click-avoid-all-damage button.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DDuke wrote:I don't have an issue with Fossilize, I'm not sure what gave you that idea.
No, but you did. I remember a few patches ago where you cluttered up every DK thread with your self-serving vendetta against anything, absolutely anything that countered your playstyle. You had a field day with magDKs and tried to disguise it by rolling your own and coming across as an expert. The devs only heard your voice too.
Sad.
Wasn't a Fossilize issue, it was an undodgeable Power Lash issue and I'm glad that got fixed because now medium armor is almost playable. It's not like mDKs have problems against dodge rollers even after that change - before they were free AP.
I'm sorry some players can't win without unfair advantages over their opponents & skills that lower the skill cap of the game.
Says the guy who needs a one-click-avoid-all-damage button.
Can we please stop with the strawman arguments?
There's a difference between being able to avoid all damage and being able to avoid 100->0 burst by using a reactive defense (the only defense a medium armor build has against burst).0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DDuke wrote:I don't have an issue with Fossilize, I'm not sure what gave you that idea.
No, but you did. I remember a few patches ago where you cluttered up every DK thread with your self-serving vendetta against anything, absolutely anything that countered your playstyle. You had a field day with magDKs and tried to disguise it by rolling your own and coming across as an expert. The devs only heard your voice too.
Sad.
Wasn't a Fossilize issue, it was an undodgeable Power Lash issue and I'm glad that got fixed because now medium armor is almost playable. It's not like mDKs have problems against dodge rollers even after that change - before they were free AP.
I'm sorry some players can't win without unfair advantages over their opponents & skills that lower the skill cap of the game.
Says the guy who needs a one-click-avoid-all-damage button.
Can we please stop with the strawman arguments?
There's a difference between being able to avoid all damage and being able to avoid 100->0 burst by using a reactive defense (the only defense a medium armor build has against burst).
At no point did mDK have "100->0 burst" and yet you still campaigned to have undodgeable Power Lash nerfed. As usual, you're just making up BS as you go along to fit your narrative.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DDuke wrote:I don't have an issue with Fossilize, I'm not sure what gave you that idea.
No, but you did. I remember a few patches ago where you cluttered up every DK thread with your self-serving vendetta against anything, absolutely anything that countered your playstyle. You had a field day with magDKs and tried to disguise it by rolling your own and coming across as an expert. The devs only heard your voice too.
Sad.
Wasn't a Fossilize issue, it was an undodgeable Power Lash issue and I'm glad that got fixed because now medium armor is almost playable. It's not like mDKs have problems against dodge rollers even after that change - before they were free AP.
I'm sorry some players can't win without unfair advantages over their opponents & skills that lower the skill cap of the game.
Says the guy who needs a one-click-avoid-all-damage button.
Can we please stop with the strawman arguments?
There's a difference between being able to avoid all damage and being able to avoid 100->0 burst by using a reactive defense (the only defense a medium armor build has against burst).
At no point did mDK have "100->0 burst" and yet you still campaigned to have undodgeable Power Lash nerfed. As usual, you're just making up BS as you go along to fit your narrative.
We're talking about Rune Cage here right now, not Power Lash.
Rune Cage=100->0.
Undodgeable Power Lash=dead medium armor build (regardless of how good player piloted that medium armor build) within 1-10s.
It's really not that complicated.
It's not a big secret that medium armor has been struggling for a long time due to undodgeable high dmg abilities, it does not have the ability to recover from or withstand burst damage like tank builds do. That's why there's a "buff medium armor" threads every PTS cycle.Edited by DDuke on July 27, 2018 1:59PM1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭We're talking about Rune Cage here right now, not Power Lash.
No, we're talking about how you invent new BS reasons each PTS cycle on why some ability or another needs to be dodgeable.
But please, keep talking yourself into a hole. Every post you make just contradicts an earlier one.
Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0
